so...... are warriors double slayers now?

[Poo]

so if i have the new talisman on (undead slayer) and i arm say the Vorpral Blade (Repond Slayer) am my warrior a double slayer?

anyone test it yet?

or for that matter.... if i equip a double slayer weapon and have the tali on am i a triple slayer?

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I would assume this is the case.

 

[Kiminality]

Except...
Undead and Repond are opposed slayer types.
So, the combination is probably a shortcut to monochrome

 

[WildWobble]

Undead elemental reptile slaying archer, i just wonder if undead reptile will give me a shot in hell of killing a paragon bone dragon solo hehe yep pretty sure they stack though situational always. And the new talisman is sweet yes but just be sure to take it off if you want to fight some ogre lords 100+ dmg a hit to an all 70's dexxer OUCH

 

[Farsight]

Has someone in a graveyard try to take on a skeletal lich with a trinket and a soul seeker. That was ugly.

But the answer is yes, you can have double slayer properties on your character now. This is especially useful in Doom where you can use the trinket and a demon slayer against the dark fathers and take out the side-spawn without changing weapons.

 

[kinney42]

But the answer is yes, you can have double slayer properties on your character now. This is especially useful in Doom where you can use the trinket and a demon slayer against the dark fathers and take out the side-spawn without changing weapons.

ooooo I just might have to try my fighter down there now!

 

[Rix/\]

I don't think the slayer part works right on the tailsman honestly. I've tested this alot on my archer trying to see if damage stacks with other slayers and I'm not seeing any change in damage with this tailsman other then the 20% dam inc. Even using just a normal crafted bow no mods I do the same damage as wearing the library primer tailsman.

 

[Basara]

Rix, are you using Enemy of One? Enemy of One and a slayer gets you to DI cap. Adding double slayer would therefore do NOTHING.

I'm doing as much damage (prior to adding in the extra 20 DI) with the talisman and an undead slayer sword (not casting EoO), as I was with EoO and the sword, without the talisman. Having all 3 in effect results in no damage change from having just two of them, because I hit cap with 2 of them.

 

[Farsight]

It has worked well with my archer against the skeletal lich and no other slayers on my person.
It also worked for the person I was fighting next to who had a soul seeker, but if the skeletal lich targetted him, he was instantly dead.

What the talisman doesn't stack with is the undead slayer on your weapon. It can only give you undead slayer properties once.

And it worked fabulously for my ornate axe wielding samurai in Doom, but that weapon has no other slayer property.

I like that I can use my SSI/HLA/HLD super-crossbow and still get the undead slayer, so with EoO, I hit for max damage even without building perfection and I never miss anything even at 110 archery.

 

[Basara]

Farsight - yes it DOES stack with an undead slayer weapon.

It's the fact that EoO and ONE slayer puts you at DI cap.

IF you DON'T CAST EoO, you'll see the effect of using the talisman and a undead slayer weapon together...

Plus, doing without EoO makes you less vulnerable to something else (like a shadow fiend) walking up and waxing you for double damage, as you're less likely to run into repond (to get hit for 3 or 4 times damage) in a graveyard than you are from other things in general (since EoO makes everything else do double damage).

 

[Rix/\]

I don't have chiv on my archer so no enemy of one, tried on rotten corpses and mummys.

 

[Basara]

Then you've got other issues. IF you're using Bushido, perhaps some of those abilities combined with your equipment are making you hit cap without counting one of the slayers? Tests have shown in the past that if ANY part of a bonus puts you over DI cap, the ENTIRE bonus from that item is discarded (not just the part that is over the cap). It's one of the reasons you can do less damage with a Crushing blow (which is supposed to be +50% DI) than you would have without it.

My tests:

EoO and slayer weapon: skeletons take damage in 60s (110s with consecrate)
EoO, regular sword and slayer talisman: 70s (120s)
Slayer sword, slayer talisman, no EoO used: 70s (120s)
EoO, slayer sword and slayer talisman: 70s (120s)
Only ONE of these: 30s damage.
No slayer/EoO effects: about 20 damage.

Note that my tests are on a character that has about 50% DI (weapon + stormgrip) without the talisman, about 70% with it, so I actually have DI cap room to see an effect.

They stack, but run into the same cap as everything else. Live with it.

 

[Bouche835]

So I am in Doom on my archer. I can equip myself the undead talisman and use a demon slayer bow. And I would be set for any creature in Doom along has I cast EoO, correct?

 

[Basara]

If you cast EoO, you'll take double damage from anything you aren't EoO to, and you'll only be at DI cap for the thing you have EoO against (but do double versus everything else).

If you can soak the damage from the rotters and lich lords, you'll be okay.

 

[Farsight]

Farsight - yes it DOES stack with an undead slayer weapon.

It's the fact that EoO and ONE slayer puts you at DI cap.

IF you DON'T CAST EoO, you'll see the effect of using the talisman and a undead slayer weapon together...

Plus, doing without EoO makes you less vulnerable to something else (like a shadow fiend) walking up and waxing you for double damage, as you're less likely to run into repond (to get hit for 3 or 4 times damage) in a graveyard than you are from other things in general (since EoO makes everything else do double damage).

I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Farsight - yes it DOES stack with an undead slayer weapon.

It's the fact that EoO and ONE slayer puts you at DI cap.

IF you DON'T CAST EoO, you'll see the effect of using the talisman and a undead slayer weapon together...

Plus, doing without EoO makes you less vulnerable to something else (like a shadow fiend) walking up and waxing you for double damage, as you're less likely to run into repond (to get hit for 3 or 4 times damage) in a graveyard than you are from other things in general (since EoO makes everything else do double damage).

Ah ha! Thank you....I don't know why I didn't think of this!!!

In addition to the situation you describe this will come in wicked-handy in, say, the Magincia undead invasion......EOO-level damage without the drawbacks of EOO!

-Galen's player

 

[Pied Piper]

Warriors were always double slayers...talismans had slayer props b4 but jus were more specific in what they were for.

Yeah I tried the double slayer thingy on OL using a soulseeker with the new tally.

My pally I was using did do double damage but the suit I was using was an all 70's with extra phys if I want archpro and extra fire resist for corpse skins..and the damage I took from OL from having an opposing slayer doubled the damage I took like it should from around 35 or 40 to 70 or 80when I was actually hit... but not no 100 hp loss like one of the b4 guys said....

Jus another tally to cart around with along with the rest!!!

BTW! Along time ago on LS (only a year or more) I saw a triple slayer bard instrument go for like 15mil or so.....they said it was only one left on the shard that anyone knew of...


Was a pretty neat item!

 

[Evilminion]

Okay, this is a remarkably newbish question for someone who's been in the game as long as I have, but since I usually play a tamer, I haven't really thought about slayer items much...

Judging from the other posts in here, is there a DOWNSIDE to using a slayer weapon or talisman? I was under the impression that the sole effect of a slayer mod was to boost the damage you did with non-spell attacks to a specific creature type. But I'm getting the impression here that you take extra damage as well...?

I'm all confuzzled. Could some kind soul please elaborate?

 

[Poo]

if you use a slayer weapon or hav ea slayer talisman on or a slayer spellbook armed you do double damage to that monster type.

AT THE SAME TIME you will take double damage from the opposite slayer group.

so dont wear your undead slayer around repond (humanoids) or is that fey... i can never remember.

 

[Basara]

Opposers are, IIRC...

Undead / Repond
Arachnid / Reptile
Demon / Fey AND Elemental (Fey only is found on one minor artifact - wish it was more)

This made fighting with the Pixie Swatter (the minor artifact in question) in Moonglow during the spring event EXTREMELY dangerous, as while you were doign double damage to the warriors and wisps, you could get 1-hit-killed by the Demon Berserkers from the double damage.

 

[Silverbird]

Aehm .... there was a change quite a while ago ...
Slayers dont do double damage ... they add 100% di against fitting monsters. Slayer's count towards the cap of 300% di. The difference comes into work, if someone wears the undead slayer talisman and an undead slayer weapon. I am not shure, if both add 100% (due to the nature of having the same slayer type twice) but if they do, they simply add 200% di to undead. (I've only tested with an undead slayer weapon and a mage slayer talisman ... both work on Liches.)

 

[Basara]

Aehm .... there was a change quite a while ago ...
Slayers dont do double damage ... they add 100% di against fitting monsters. Slayer's count towards the cap of 300% di. The difference comes into work, if someone wears the undead slayer talisman and an undead slayer weapon. I am not shure, if both add 100% (due to the nature of having the same slayer type twice) but if they do, they simply add 200% di to undead. (I've only tested with an undead slayer weapon and a mage slayer talisman ... both work on Liches.)

Yep, that's the way they work.

But with a 300% vs. Monster DI cap, one hits that cap fairly easily, and there's that annoying "lost DI" bug (where it seems that if your DI goes over 300%, the entireity of the last bonus added, not the part over 300% - and/or that Crushing Blow will void most of the other DI bonuses in the process of being applied).

+100% from slayer 1
+100% from slayer 2 (talisman, or old double slayer)
+25% from Stormgrip
+35-50% from weapon
+25-40% from other sources.

= 300% (note that Tactics, Anatomy, and LJ bonuses add in separately, IIRC to the BASE damage for the weapon that is displayed on your status bar)

Makes Crushing Blow (+50% DI on a single attack) a worthless special move, even with only one slayer and using other means of gaining DI (like Enemy of One).

Now, Enemy of One is supposed to be +50%, yet the Devs have swore in the past that EoO + Slayer is at or near max DI. This would only be true if the DI from all other sources is added, then multiplied by 50%, then added - or if the BASE damage (treated as 100%) + existing DI are multiplied such before calculating.

Scenario 1: DI with EoO = Pre-EoO DI x 1.5 (to a maximum of 200% pre-EoO DI)
Scenario 2: (Base damage (100%) + pre-EoO DI) x 50% = EoO bonus, resulting in (with a slayer) at least a 100% DI bonus after modification.

If Draconi or someone similar reads this, want to clarify?

 

[Wolfrat]

Tests have shown in the past that if ANY part of a bonus puts you over DI cap, the ENTIRE bonus from that item is discarded (not just the part that is over the cap).QUOTE]

Interesting. My admittedly limited testing with a double slayer bow of the same slayer type has shown that the bow with EoO deals 250% damage whilst the bow without EoO deals the full 300%.

 

[Basara]

That's exactly the bug I was referring to.

BTW, you need to add in that missing "[/" to that tag to fix it.

 

[gjohnson5]

Except...
Undead and Repond are opposed slayer types.
So, the combination is probably a shortcut to monochrome

I guess this is the part I'm interested in
It would (well should) be that undead and repond have no relationship at all
I guess this is what I'm interested in

 

[gjohnson5]

Opposers are, IIRC...

Undead / Repond
Arachnid / Reptile
Demon / Fey AND Elemental (Fey only is found on one minor artifact - wish it was more)

This made fighting with the Pixie Swatter (the minor artifact in question) in Moonglow during the spring event EXTREMELY dangerous, as while you were doign double damage to the warriors and wisps, you could get 1-hit-killed by the Demon Berserkers from the double damage.

IMHO this needs to be eliminated completely.
There should be no relationship AT ALL between slayer types

So if one casts EEO you do double damage to that exact mob. Ehen EVERYTHING else despite it's monster type hits you for double

 

[Dragon Slave.]

Ok.. Heres a big question. Can I be a triple slayer? I have a modified slayer bow with two slayer types - Demon/Elemental. So now if I equip the Undead Talisman, what kind of trouble could I get into? Would this combo rock doom?

 

[Basara]

gjohnson 5:
The Opposing slayer concept, in theory, goes back to the original Ophidian/Terethan war in the game. I preferred it when Opposing slayers were deactivated (I had an Undead/Repond double from teh old Haven Paladin quest), but its roots go back to before AOS.

Dragon Slave.

That combination would make you do +100% DI to 3 of the types, but take double damage from the other 4. It would indeed rock in Doom, but is potentially very dangerous most other places, where you might encounter Fey, elemental, arachnid or repond stuff mixed with the things you are fighting.

 

[Lord Kynd]

I don't think the slayer part works right on the tailsman honestly. I've tested this alot on my archer trying to see if damage stacks with other slayers and I'm not seeing any change in damage with this tailsman other then the 20% dam inc. Even using just a normal crafted bow no mods I do the same damage as wearing the library primer tailsman.

i haven't noticed any change with my archer either, with or without the tailsmen.

also noticed i do not do any different damage fighting undead with myschief maker bow and tailsmen , ver's normal bow and tailsmen, or vers. mych. and no tailsmen.with and without enemy of one and consencrate weapon... nothing changes .. well maybe my arrows actually hit more often.

am thinking the tailsmens are eye candy currently.

then again i am just barrowing one since the event didn't last long enough for me to get my own....

 

[Kith Kanan]

Rix, are you using Enemy of One? Enemy of One and a slayer gets you to DI cap. Adding double slayer would therefore do NOTHING.

I'm doing as much damage (prior to adding in the extra 20 DI) with the talisman and an undead slayer sword (not casting EoO), as I was with EoO and the sword, without the talisman. Having all 3 in effect results in no damage change from having just two of them, because I hit cap with 2 of them.

any but gives more room for xtra mods since you dont have to be concerned about DI on items , or you can skip EoO and use the mana for something ell's