Skill Gains - an observation

[Val-Tur]

I decided to train archery again for a new template. When my gains became slower around 70 ish, I decided to try to be clever about it and use a skill tutor statuette. After some time, I discovered that gains came faster when I received the "easy" message vs the "optimal" message. It goes without saying that if you hit more than miss, you will gain faster (general statement).

Note: my real skill level was round 77 ish.

I decided to try an experiment. I made 10 rings imbued with the archery skill 1 - 10 intensity. I found the skill @ which the mobs I was fighting were optimal. I then put on each ring until I got an "easy" message. I kept upping my skill by 1 each time to test other results. After some time playing around with this I seemed to discover the following: skill gains came the fastest for me when I received the "easy" message from the statuette & when my skill level was 3-4 points higher than the "optimal" message.

Has anyone else come to this general conclusion? Why would "optimal" not give the fastest gains - I was not missing very much.

 

[Philly]

interesting

 

[Uvtha]

I decided to train archery again for a new template. When my gains became slower around 70 ish, I decided to try to be clever about it and use a skill tutor statuette. After some time, I discovered that gains came faster when I received the "easy" message vs the "optimal" message. It goes without saying that if you hit more than miss, you will gain faster (general statement).

Note: my real skill level was round 77 ish.

I decided to try an experiment. I made 10 rings imbued with the archery skill 1 - 10 intensity. I found the skill @ which the mobs I was fighting were optimal. I then put on each ring until I got an "easy" message. I kept upping my skill by 1 each time to test other results. After some time playing around with this I seemed to discover the following: skill gains came the fastest for me when I received the "easy" message from the statuette & when my skill level was 3-4 points higher than the "optimal" message.

Has anyone else come to this general conclusion? Why would "optimal" not give the fastest gains - I was not missing very much.

I think it's like you say, the more chances at a gain the better, so more high rate lower gain odds are more valuable than lower rate higher gain odds. Reminds me of ToT. Sure that balron gives you a higher drop chance, but you can kill 20 hell hounds in the same time, and your output will be much higher.

 

[OREOGL]

This sounds much more intensive than shooting a wolf spider with a 100% poison repeater

 

[TimberWolf]

ummmm buy to 40...
imbue ring with 15 archery and 15 tactics and 15 hci
do the exact same with bracelet.
get a friend with Spell weaving to train an artic ogre lord and stand them in luna.
they park the spellweaver at the luna bank.

100% poison repeater powdered to 255 and imbue 30 ssi and 15 hci imbued
load up with as many bolts as you can carry...around 10-15k usually does
eat 120 archery scroll...and start shooting

Archery, tactics and anat will rise quickly especially from 80-110.
when you hit 110 take one piece of jewelry off.
literally you can go from 0-120 archery in an afternoon. your tactics and anatomy will be at GM+ ( if you scrolled)
finish your tactics and anatomy actually hunting.

easy breezy,,,after the afternoon of grinding switch to a compound bow and go spawn....get a bunch of srolls and primers and finish off tactics etc fast!


but if you insist on the statue technique....I always found I got best gains when listed as challenging! But I am the first to admit I dont use the statue much...dont even have one anymore.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

^^ You can anat your horse from 0-100 in like 2 hours.

 

[Archnight]

Good observation, I think your right

 

[Chanel #1]

People still gain skill the old fashioned way? I honestly don't think I've gained more than .1 in any skill naturally in years. I just get frustrated and buy pink scrolls. Maybe if the scrolls weren't pink, I'd be more inclined to train again. I love anything pink.

 

[Val-Tur]

This post was not about how to easy mode skills, etc. After 14 yrs, I have seen most of these methods & have used one or two of the legal "easy mode" methods to train a skill or two when I was too lazy to actually play the game.

What my observation is actually about:

There is something wrong with a skill gain system that seems to overwhelmingly offer more gains on guaranteed attempts than on challenging attempts. This seems to be especially true after 70 or so. If skill gaining is about *learning* then why doesn't a player get rewarded more skill gains & a higher gain value (not simply 0.1 at a time) for pulling off a successful attempt on something just beyond their normal ability?. In other words why do you not learn more from achieving something challenging or difficult than something easy that you already know how to do. Just about anyone who has trained multiple templates & has played for a very long time has seen this.

You can sit in the acid slug pit and train archery or throwing faster from a low level to 100 or 120 than going out and choosing mobs at the "correct" skill gain level. Acid slugs are easy & an almost guaranteed hit at a relatively low skill levels. That is just one example. The arctic ogre lord method mentioned above, the now defunct "golem training", & several other methods like this are more examples that reward a player more for sitting around doing almost nothing instead of interacting with the game.

I dislike constant grinding as much as anyone else. But why can't skill training be both productive & somewhat enjoyable instead of a complete grind or an almost afk experience?

 

[TimberWolf]

This post was not about how to easy mode skills, etc. After 14 yrs, I have seen most of these methods & have used one or two of the legal "easy mode" methods to train a skill or two when I was too lazy to actually play the game.

What my observation is actually about:

There is something wrong with a skill gain system that seems to overwhelmingly offer more gains on guaranteed attempts than on challenging attempts. This seems to be especially true after 70 or so. If skill gaining is about *learning* then why doesn't a player get rewarded more skill gains & a higher gain value (not simply 0.1 at a time) for pulling off a successful attempt on something just beyond their normal ability?. In other words why do you not learn more from achieving something challenging or difficult than something easy that you already know how to do. Just about anyone who has trained multiple templates & has played for a very long time has seen this.

You can sit in the acid slug pit and train archery or throwing faster from a low level to 100 or 120 than going out and choosing mobs at the "correct" skill gain level. Acid slugs are easy & an almost guaranteed hit at a relatively low skill levels. That is just one example. The arctic ogre lord method mentioned above, the now defunct "golem training", & several other methods like this are more examples that reward a player more for sitting around doing almost nothing instead of interacting with the game.

I dislike constant grinding as much as anyone else. But why can't skill training be both productive & somewhat enjoyable instead of a complete grind or an almost afk experience?

Next you will want a game where you are stimulated with new and exciting content!

 

[Mene (DF)]

....

Patience's a virtue - not a sosarian one - but a generelly one .... really interesting to what people occupies with ....

Btw.... I can remember times when there's only PS and no pink scrolls or other things help skillgaining .... only do it and skillgain .

 

[Tyrath]

Personally I am a big fan of the ROT on Siege, I gain through playing and actually hunting and doing things and have maxed every skill multiple times on Siege. On Prodo Shards just doing things I normally do I often go 6-8 hours between .1 gains even using the CBOK in the optimal range gains are dead slow for me, I get frustrated and just buy 5.0 pinks to go from 90-95 to max. I just can't bring myself to stand in Luna beating on a horse or spider for gains, just my own personal opinion. I do think actively hunting and playing should give gains just as fast or faster than beating a horse, spider or ogre

 

[Tyrath]

....

Patience's a virtue - not a sosarian one - but a generelly one .... really interesting to what people occupies with ....

Btw.... I can remember times when there's only PS and no pink scrolls or other things help skillgaining .... only do it and skillgain .

And I remember back then when everyone training had a boat sailing north around the world 8x8ing

 

[TimberWolf]

And I remember back then when everyone training had a boat sailing north around the world 8x8ing

or 500 locked boxes, 50 000 lock picks and months of time just to get to 95 LPing.

Then you had to invade the dungeons in search of chests to get gains from.

 

[Tyrath]

or 500 locked boxes, 50 000 lock picks and months of time just to get to 95 LPing.

Then you had to invade the dungeons in search of chests to get gains from.

LOL LP was the first skill I GMd Poisoning was the second neither are fond memories

 

[TimberWolf]

Actually for me I loved GMing lock picking....that was an accomplishment. You tell someone you were a GM Lock picker you instantly had game cred! I liked it so much for a long while I ran the largest and most successful LP house on catskills ( if not in the entire game)

500 locked boxes neatly organized by skill lvl . Complete dungeon chest rune library sorted by chest lvl and dungeon. Complete T-Map rune library of both the co-ordinates and the goodman system. Day or night 365 days a year there was always someone in my Brit beach Lockpick tower.

I was very sad when they removed the anti macro code and made it so you could GM Lping in 3 hrs with 3 boxes. I know skill training was harder then...but frankly I miss those days. After 3 months with hardly a visitor. after that..I locked the doors and gave the place away.

 

[Tyrath]

Oh it was without question a major achievement, lol when I started my template was LP, poison, Cart, mining, tink, mage, and carpentry. It became obvious very quickly LP and poison were going to be the hard ones. Lured the rotting corpses out of the bottom of deceit and bounce between there and despise OL for the last 5. Still the only skill I dislike maxing more was 120 taming. LOL taming only took me 10 years.