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Nails Warstein
Royal Explorer & Grand Archaeologian Of Sosaria
Professional
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
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How does an item become duped, how is it chosen, and why would players buy an item suspected or identified as being duped? Lets use a logical exercise to discover the truth.
<u>Exercise One </u>
Player X owns a unique event item called "the gladiator collar" Player X originally paid an unknown amount for the gladiator collar. We will state for this exercise that Player X paid $2000 for the gladiator collar. Now player X needs money, wants to quit UO, or just decides for whatever reason he wants to sell the gladiator collar. What will Player X do? Here are his options.
A - Player X tries to sell the gladiator collar for $2500 to a reputable collector
B - Player X pays Player Y to learn "the duping technique"
C - Player X pays Player Y to duplicate the gladiator collar
D - Player X chooses option B to sell as many gladiator collars as he can
E - Player X chooses option C to sell one duplicated gladiator collar and keep original
F - Player X failed at option A so sells gladiator collar for $5000 to a known duper
What do you think Player X decides in the case of the gladiator collar
<u>Exercise Two</u>
Player A owns a large rares collection that he spent $50,000 to acquire. Player A needs money, decides to quit UO, or for whatever reason decides to sell his rares collection. Player A will never find anyone to pay him $50,000 for his collection. Player A is approached by a Player B who knows how to dupe. What will player A do?
1 - Player A tells Player B to take a hike, and sell his collection honestly losing 80% on his investment
2 - Player B offers to buy Player A's entire collection for 50% loss
3 - Player B offers to duplicate Player A's collection so he can keep everything and sell off the duplicated items for 80% loss
4 - Player A chooses option 3, but instead decides to auction off his duplicated items while Player B and his friends make outrageous bids so he only ends up with the 50% loss
5 - Players A + B go into business with a Player C, and Player C sells the duplicated items off his website and splits profits with Players A + B
What do you think player A decides to do with his collection?
<u>Exercise One </u>
Player X owns a unique event item called "the gladiator collar" Player X originally paid an unknown amount for the gladiator collar. We will state for this exercise that Player X paid $2000 for the gladiator collar. Now player X needs money, wants to quit UO, or just decides for whatever reason he wants to sell the gladiator collar. What will Player X do? Here are his options.
A - Player X tries to sell the gladiator collar for $2500 to a reputable collector
B - Player X pays Player Y to learn "the duping technique"
C - Player X pays Player Y to duplicate the gladiator collar
D - Player X chooses option B to sell as many gladiator collars as he can
E - Player X chooses option C to sell one duplicated gladiator collar and keep original
F - Player X failed at option A so sells gladiator collar for $5000 to a known duper
What do you think Player X decides in the case of the gladiator collar
<u>Exercise Two</u>
Player A owns a large rares collection that he spent $50,000 to acquire. Player A needs money, decides to quit UO, or for whatever reason decides to sell his rares collection. Player A will never find anyone to pay him $50,000 for his collection. Player A is approached by a Player B who knows how to dupe. What will player A do?
1 - Player A tells Player B to take a hike, and sell his collection honestly losing 80% on his investment
2 - Player B offers to buy Player A's entire collection for 50% loss
3 - Player B offers to duplicate Player A's collection so he can keep everything and sell off the duplicated items for 80% loss
4 - Player A chooses option 3, but instead decides to auction off his duplicated items while Player B and his friends make outrageous bids so he only ends up with the 50% loss
5 - Players A + B go into business with a Player C, and Player C sells the duplicated items off his website and splits profits with Players A + B
What do you think player A decides to do with his collection?
<font color="purple"> there are people that will cheat solely because they can and keep cheating, and laughing about it, because they can... and reading this right now and laughing *shrug*
there are people that will cheat because the need is great.. money is a powerful motivator, and a sick child or parent, or a foreclosure notice maybe would be enough for an otherwise honest person to consider cheating
we know the reasons, can list them and then dissect them, and we still will be no closer to a solution, and for myself, I'll get no satisfaction from it all </font>
there are people that will cheat because the need is great.. money is a powerful motivator, and a sick child or parent, or a foreclosure notice maybe would be enough for an otherwise honest person to consider cheating
we know the reasons, can list them and then dissect them, and we still will be no closer to a solution, and for myself, I'll get no satisfaction from it all </font>
Nails Warstein
Royal Explorer & Grand Archaeologian Of Sosaria
Professional
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
<blockquote><hr>
<font color="purple"> there are people that will cheat solely because they can and keep cheating, and laughing about it, because they can... and reading this right now and laughing *shrug*
there are people that will cheat because the need is great.. money is a powerful motivator, and a sick child or parent, or a foreclosure notice maybe would be enough for an otherwise honest person to consider cheating
we know the reasons, can list them and then dissect them, and we still will be no closer to a solution, and for myself, I'll get no satisfaction from it all </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, but as I illustrated with my exercises, it takes two if not more players to duplicate items.
I myself have been approached by players to sell my entire collection for 30 - 50% of its value. Where do they get the funds to make such offers? Whether they admit or not, they must be a duper or a dealer for a duper.
Obviously plenty of people buy items, discover that many other players suddenly have that item, but where can these players go to tell others who they bought their duplicated items from? No where, that information is kept in the dark. I suppose if the information became public knowledge, the dupers would change their identities or pose as well known ones.
EA can make changes publish after publish, but any computer savy person can always figure out how to dupe again without getting caught, just as they a new script will be written, and EA needs a player base source to root out the players who are to blame.
If you light a fire at both ends of the line, soon enough they will all get burned. Published Fixes and Player based sources.
<font color="purple"> there are people that will cheat solely because they can and keep cheating, and laughing about it, because they can... and reading this right now and laughing *shrug*
there are people that will cheat because the need is great.. money is a powerful motivator, and a sick child or parent, or a foreclosure notice maybe would be enough for an otherwise honest person to consider cheating
we know the reasons, can list them and then dissect them, and we still will be no closer to a solution, and for myself, I'll get no satisfaction from it all </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, but as I illustrated with my exercises, it takes two if not more players to duplicate items.
I myself have been approached by players to sell my entire collection for 30 - 50% of its value. Where do they get the funds to make such offers? Whether they admit or not, they must be a duper or a dealer for a duper.
Obviously plenty of people buy items, discover that many other players suddenly have that item, but where can these players go to tell others who they bought their duplicated items from? No where, that information is kept in the dark. I suppose if the information became public knowledge, the dupers would change their identities or pose as well known ones.
EA can make changes publish after publish, but any computer savy person can always figure out how to dupe again without getting caught, just as they a new script will be written, and EA needs a player base source to root out the players who are to blame.
If you light a fire at both ends of the line, soon enough they will all get burned. Published Fixes and Player based sources.
Copy paste of posts from dupe list thread:
Pix Pixel Plix
Seasoned Veteran
Reged: 05/28/04
Posts: 306
Loc: Lake George, NY
Re: A List Of Known Duped Items [Re: Tomas-Bryce]
#7628773 - 02/15/08 07:48 PM (74.67.29.104)
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Could we have some participation in this list by submitting what is owned by whom on each of these items to get some idea how widely duped each of these items are. Edit your posts when you buy a new item, and/or sell an item off to someone on the list. Plus could the original list include the original number of created items for each of these rares. Example the Brave Knight Katana was unique.
I own at least one of the following items unless otherwise noted.
* Necromancer Robe
* Brave knights katana (non-lightning version)
* Magic door
* Shroud of Talkeesh
* Bloodstain tunic
* Two story statues
* Shroud of Deceit
* All types of playing cards
* Unlit skull candles
* Wall large blood splatters
* Oblivion needle
* Item bless deeds
* Wisp fragments
* Ancient mummy wrappings
* 3 face idol statues
* Spilled Flour
* Wall carvings x 2
* Marble tables
* Folded sheets
* Plough
* Gauntlets of anger
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Flutter
[Paragon]
Reged: 02/25/04
Posts: 9985
Loc: Lost on a shard near you.
Re: A List Of Known Duped Items [Re: Pix Pixel Plix]
#7628865 - 02/15/08 09:48 PM (69.92.235.130)
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I had two ancient mummy wraps, I sold one (I think to you Nails?) and kept the other one.
There were a lot that spawned I am surprised anyone bothered to dupe them.
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My Blog
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treyster18
Lore Master
Reged: 12/01/05
Posts: 1156
Re: A List Of Known Duped Items [Re: Flutter]
#7628977 - 02/16/08 12:59 AM (74.194.122.27)
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No one has any proof that this stuff is duped flutter , everyone just assumes crap, they think since they see 4-5 mummy wraps on a vend that there duped, or some crap like that, well i personaly had 5-6 mummy wraps and i bought each one at about 15m ea, didnt dupe em, not saying they werent but just because theres a large number of a certain item on a vend doesnt mean its duped
everything in this game has been duped almost....
this list is so inaccurate its not even funny....
http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=7610676&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
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Tomas-Bryce Moderator
UO Moderator
Lore Keeper
Reged: 08/14/06
Posts: 855
Re: A List Of Known Duped Items [Re: treyster18]
#7628987 - 02/16/08 01:27 AM (82.95.128.99)
Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote
So far all the proponents of making a list continue to flip-flop between two arguments which contradict themselves:
* Everything in the game is duped so there is no point in making a list.
* You have no proof item xyz has been duped.
I hope you appreciate the irony in those two statements when made in same breath. Furthermore, if there are issues regarding certain item in this list, it can always be removed. However, please take this discussion to the one started by Ryna and not here.
Pix Pixel Plix
Seasoned Veteran
Reged: 05/28/04
Posts: 306
Loc: Lake George, NY
Re: A List Of Known Duped Items [Re: Tomas-Bryce]
#7628773 - 02/15/08 07:48 PM (74.67.29.104)
Move Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote
Could we have some participation in this list by submitting what is owned by whom on each of these items to get some idea how widely duped each of these items are. Edit your posts when you buy a new item, and/or sell an item off to someone on the list. Plus could the original list include the original number of created items for each of these rares. Example the Brave Knight Katana was unique.
I own at least one of the following items unless otherwise noted.
* Necromancer Robe
* Brave knights katana (non-lightning version)
* Magic door
* Shroud of Talkeesh
* Bloodstain tunic
* Two story statues
* Shroud of Deceit
* All types of playing cards
* Unlit skull candles
* Wall large blood splatters
* Oblivion needle
* Item bless deeds
* Wisp fragments
* Ancient mummy wrappings
* 3 face idol statues
* Spilled Flour
* Wall carvings x 2
* Marble tables
* Folded sheets
* Plough
* Gauntlets of anger
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Flutter
[Paragon]
Reged: 02/25/04
Posts: 9985
Loc: Lost on a shard near you.
Re: A List Of Known Duped Items [Re: Pix Pixel Plix]
#7628865 - 02/15/08 09:48 PM (69.92.235.130)
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I had two ancient mummy wraps, I sold one (I think to you Nails?) and kept the other one.
There were a lot that spawned I am surprised anyone bothered to dupe them.
Visit TheLostLands!
My Blog
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treyster18
Lore Master
Reged: 12/01/05
Posts: 1156
Re: A List Of Known Duped Items [Re: Flutter]
#7628977 - 02/16/08 12:59 AM (74.194.122.27)
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No one has any proof that this stuff is duped flutter , everyone just assumes crap, they think since they see 4-5 mummy wraps on a vend that there duped, or some crap like that, well i personaly had 5-6 mummy wraps and i bought each one at about 15m ea, didnt dupe em, not saying they werent but just because theres a large number of a certain item on a vend doesnt mean its duped
everything in this game has been duped almost....
this list is so inaccurate its not even funny....
http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/uo/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=7610676&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
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Tomas-Bryce Moderator
UO Moderator
Lore Keeper
Reged: 08/14/06
Posts: 855
Re: A List Of Known Duped Items [Re: treyster18]
#7628987 - 02/16/08 01:27 AM (82.95.128.99)
Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote
So far all the proponents of making a list continue to flip-flop between two arguments which contradict themselves:
* Everything in the game is duped so there is no point in making a list.
* You have no proof item xyz has been duped.
I hope you appreciate the irony in those two statements when made in same breath. Furthermore, if there are issues regarding certain item in this list, it can always be removed. However, please take this discussion to the one started by Ryna and not here.
An you would repost this Why Tomas??? your a mod yet your doing nothing but ranting and flaming.....you tried to make fun of me by showing the irony in my post, yet there was No Irony you just misunderstood the post, or didnt care to try to understand it.
ALMOST everything in this game HAS been duped, No not EVERYTHING has been i said ALMOST everything, so to make a full complete accurate list you would literaly have to add ALMOST every single rare in the game to it.
and i said you have no proof (nor any right) to post SOME of the items in that list because you dont, you think that just because someone has 5-10 of an item on a vend that its duped, so if i put up all my mummy wrapings on my vendor you would assume they are duped, or if someone such as Parkay is selling something your going to, again, Assume its a dupe in which case you have absolutely no idea whether it is or not. there were plenty of items in a known dupers house on LS that i do not belive got duped, i mean do i know for a fact they werent? No, but do you know for a fact they were? No
I Do Agree to an extent however, that SOME items that were notoriously and WIDELY KNOWN to be duped should be in some type of list. items such as:
Quell, Pacify, Calm, Subdue, Shroud of Deciet, Shroud of Ari, Shroud of Tal'keesh, Oak Leaf Shroud, Vine Cords, Lt. Sash, Dijnii Ring, Wall Blood Tile, Item Bless Deed (although that one shouldnt really be on there because the price will only rise on it simply because its an item that will consumed instead of staying like the others, much like Runics etc), L-shaped Rock, Necro Shroud, Good Sam Robe, Acid Proof Robe, 2 Story Statues (Non Talking? i think that the duped ones do not talk), Orc Chief Helm (30% HCI and HPI Versions), Brave Knight of Brit Sword, Zombie Goat Boots, and Several Types of Boulders.
I Can't remember all of the items that were on dupers vendors but that was the majority of them.
Items that you have absolutely no proof nor any right / Business putting on that list are as follows:
Rotgut Wine, Spilled Flour, Gauntlets of Anger, Royal Guard Survival Knife, Wind Spirit, Scaffold, Magic Doors, Unlit Skull Candle, Large/Small Vases, Bloodstained Tunic, Mummy Wrapings, Wisp Fragments.
Wall Carvings were not duped that bad because we do not see just a whole lot of them, unlike 2 story statues and such. Plough and Marble Benches are about the same as wall carving
Now Tomas, and Everyone else, if you will Read this entire post carefully you will see that i am agreeing with the having of that list to an extent, i do not like to see items that you have no proof of being duped on the list however because it does hurt the sales, and by hurting the sales i do not mean it hurts the price, i mean it keeps ppl from wanting to buy them meaning it prevents some honest ppl from being able to sell them.
<blockquote><hr>
That is your opinion. As a new collector, I would like to steer my collection away from such obvious dupes. I know it will never be completely duped free, but this list will help me try to attain that goal.
[/ QUOTE ]
my point exactly, this list has already hurt the sales of some innocent items
I want to appologize for my rants yesterday, i was a bit out of line, this entire event here has just got under my skin, because i thought this was supposed to be a rares collector forum and not a duping forum....
<blockquote><hr>
I care, and thank you for the list. Why does this guy flame everyone for having an opinion in regards to anything?
[/ QUOTE ]
ever stop to think that maybe that wasnt a Flame and that was my personal opinion on things? this IS a Forum isnt it? maybe some of you guys should look up the definition of the word "Forum"
<blockquote><hr>
Cause it makes him feel better and stronger and stuff...maybe he needs another timeout....
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, yea Gwy you hit the nail on the head leme tell ya !!
MAYBE, just MAYBE, its because i DONT LIKE DUPES and i DONT LIKE TALKING ABOUT DUPES.....oh and MAYBE its also because im a VERY opinionated person who likes to speak his mind alot? i know speaking my mind isnt always the smartest thing to do, but again, this IS a forum, meaning it IS a place for discussion and opinions....
and again, id like to appologize for my ranting and such, this is just my opinion guys, no need to player hate.....
"Don't Hate The Player, Hate The Game"
ALMOST everything in this game HAS been duped, No not EVERYTHING has been i said ALMOST everything, so to make a full complete accurate list you would literaly have to add ALMOST every single rare in the game to it.
and i said you have no proof (nor any right) to post SOME of the items in that list because you dont, you think that just because someone has 5-10 of an item on a vend that its duped, so if i put up all my mummy wrapings on my vendor you would assume they are duped, or if someone such as Parkay is selling something your going to, again, Assume its a dupe in which case you have absolutely no idea whether it is or not. there were plenty of items in a known dupers house on LS that i do not belive got duped, i mean do i know for a fact they werent? No, but do you know for a fact they were? No
I Do Agree to an extent however, that SOME items that were notoriously and WIDELY KNOWN to be duped should be in some type of list. items such as:
Quell, Pacify, Calm, Subdue, Shroud of Deciet, Shroud of Ari, Shroud of Tal'keesh, Oak Leaf Shroud, Vine Cords, Lt. Sash, Dijnii Ring, Wall Blood Tile, Item Bless Deed (although that one shouldnt really be on there because the price will only rise on it simply because its an item that will consumed instead of staying like the others, much like Runics etc), L-shaped Rock, Necro Shroud, Good Sam Robe, Acid Proof Robe, 2 Story Statues (Non Talking? i think that the duped ones do not talk), Orc Chief Helm (30% HCI and HPI Versions), Brave Knight of Brit Sword, Zombie Goat Boots, and Several Types of Boulders.
I Can't remember all of the items that were on dupers vendors but that was the majority of them.
Items that you have absolutely no proof nor any right / Business putting on that list are as follows:
Rotgut Wine, Spilled Flour, Gauntlets of Anger, Royal Guard Survival Knife, Wind Spirit, Scaffold, Magic Doors, Unlit Skull Candle, Large/Small Vases, Bloodstained Tunic, Mummy Wrapings, Wisp Fragments.
Wall Carvings were not duped that bad because we do not see just a whole lot of them, unlike 2 story statues and such. Plough and Marble Benches are about the same as wall carving
Now Tomas, and Everyone else, if you will Read this entire post carefully you will see that i am agreeing with the having of that list to an extent, i do not like to see items that you have no proof of being duped on the list however because it does hurt the sales, and by hurting the sales i do not mean it hurts the price, i mean it keeps ppl from wanting to buy them meaning it prevents some honest ppl from being able to sell them.
<blockquote><hr>
That is your opinion. As a new collector, I would like to steer my collection away from such obvious dupes. I know it will never be completely duped free, but this list will help me try to attain that goal.
[/ QUOTE ]
my point exactly, this list has already hurt the sales of some innocent items
I want to appologize for my rants yesterday, i was a bit out of line, this entire event here has just got under my skin, because i thought this was supposed to be a rares collector forum and not a duping forum....
<blockquote><hr>
I care, and thank you for the list. Why does this guy flame everyone for having an opinion in regards to anything?
[/ QUOTE ]
ever stop to think that maybe that wasnt a Flame and that was my personal opinion on things? this IS a Forum isnt it? maybe some of you guys should look up the definition of the word "Forum"
<blockquote><hr>
Cause it makes him feel better and stronger and stuff...maybe he needs another timeout....
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, yea Gwy you hit the nail on the head leme tell ya !!
MAYBE, just MAYBE, its because i DONT LIKE DUPES and i DONT LIKE TALKING ABOUT DUPES.....oh and MAYBE its also because im a VERY opinionated person who likes to speak his mind alot? i know speaking my mind isnt always the smartest thing to do, but again, this IS a forum, meaning it IS a place for discussion and opinions....
and again, id like to appologize for my ranting and such, this is just my opinion guys, no need to player hate.....
"Don't Hate The Player, Hate The Game"
G
Guest
Guest
While, I'm not expressing an opinion, I would like to share something with everyone.
25 people took a survey i placed in the rares forum last month, the 5th question of this survey was the following:
<blockquote><hr>
If you knew that an item had been duped in the past
would it prevent you from purchasing it if offered to you?
[/ QUOTE ]
While, many players included contingencies there was a clear majority.
Yes : 7 - 28%
No: 14 - 56%
Undecided: 4 - 16%
I also ran a survey this past NOV/DEC with several similar or related questions.
<blockquote><hr>
2. Would knowing a rare was duped prevent you from purchasing it
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes: 13 - 48%
No: 14 - 52%
<blockquote><hr>
3. If an item you desire was for sale by a known duper, would this prevent you from purchasing it?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes: 19 - 70%
No: 8 - 30%
Make your own judgements.
25 people took a survey i placed in the rares forum last month, the 5th question of this survey was the following:
<blockquote><hr>
If you knew that an item had been duped in the past
would it prevent you from purchasing it if offered to you?
[/ QUOTE ]
While, many players included contingencies there was a clear majority.
Yes : 7 - 28%
No: 14 - 56%
Undecided: 4 - 16%
I also ran a survey this past NOV/DEC with several similar or related questions.
<blockquote><hr>
2. Would knowing a rare was duped prevent you from purchasing it
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes: 13 - 48%
No: 14 - 52%
<blockquote><hr>
3. If an item you desire was for sale by a known duper, would this prevent you from purchasing it?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes: 19 - 70%
No: 8 - 30%
Make your own judgements.
<blockquote><hr>
An you would repost this Why Tomas??? your a mod yet your doing nothing but ranting and flaming.....you tried to make fun of me by showing the irony in my post, yet there was No Irony you just misunderstood the post, or didnt care to try to understand it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I posted this here because I was going to move the discussion from other thread to here. Also, I am not ranting at all. I was referring to three other posts that were made by other users about how everything is duped. Some of them might have gotten moved due to being part of flames. Relax
An you would repost this Why Tomas??? your a mod yet your doing nothing but ranting and flaming.....you tried to make fun of me by showing the irony in my post, yet there was No Irony you just misunderstood the post, or didnt care to try to understand it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I posted this here because I was going to move the discussion from other thread to here. Also, I am not ranting at all. I was referring to three other posts that were made by other users about how everything is duped. Some of them might have gotten moved due to being part of flames. Relax
<blockquote><hr>
* Everything in the game is duped so there is no point in making a list.
* You have no proof item xyz has been duped.
I hope you appreciate the irony in those two statements when made in same breath.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hence the made in the same breath part, considering i said both of those things in the same post makes me belive that was solely intended for me =/
either way, its cool
* Everything in the game is duped so there is no point in making a list.
* You have no proof item xyz has been duped.
I hope you appreciate the irony in those two statements when made in same breath.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hence the made in the same breath part, considering i said both of those things in the same post makes me belive that was solely intended for me =/
either way, its cool
Bump