SA should not support 2D

[Splup]

I must first admit that I don't know what's the situation, if Stygian Abyss is supposed to support 2D or not. I only know that I think supporting 2D should be totally quit.

Iv been playing this game since 2000, and I have tried KR three times. Everytime I'v changed back to 2D in 15 minutes, since I can get my macros right on first try and get frustrated. Even the basic function buttons that are supposed to work by default don't work. I can't open my paperdoll, KR defaults or ML defaults, it just doesnt open. Also lack of UOA is bad... But I like the graphix.

Why I still think 2D should not be supported?

This game needs new players.

2D graphix are too ugly for most of new players, and KR is just too complicated. So there's no good client at the moment. If Stygian Abyss has good sides from 2D and KR, I'm willing to give up 2D. Yes, quitting 2D will make some old players quit this game. Truth is, they will quit someday anyways, and if there's no new players when they quit, this game dies. That's why Devs should only focus on developing new client which attracts new players also. I'm not a coder, but my wild quess is that supporting also 2D makes developing new client harder.

Macroing

All macroing programs support 2D only. Getting rid of 2D would end macroing atleast for a while. Propably some new programs which make macroing on new client possible would come, but maybe EA could this time try to do something about the new programs coming up. Programs that are used at the moment are so popular, that EA doesnt want to ban for using it. But they could start banning for the new program, and this way prevent it from coming that popular.

Cheats/hacks

Also all cheats that are around in PvP are 2D only. Problem solved. No more complaining about speedhacks etc.

Ghost/hidden spawncams are also used with programs that support 2D only. No-one likes spawncams...


Removing 2D would basically make this game more fair for everyone. Even thou I want to see 2D support ended, I will also be sad that day. All the memories I have from this game and 2D... But truth is, this isn't the same game I started back in 2000 anymore. So why not change it all the way.

I remember when I thought I will quit when there's no more 2D, but something has changed my mind. So if you have good arguments why 2D should stay (except the UO is 2D argument, which I pointed out earlier) I'm willing to change my mind again

 

[It Lives]

Ya good Luck with that.

 

[Spree]

If they got rid of the 2 d client it would take them 10 mins to make one for the new client. Getting rid of 2d wont stop cheating.

 

[Oppurtunity]

I prefer the 2D graphics to KR's graphics. I think they're charming, whereas KR is just ugly.

 

[Luka Melehan]

I have heard way too many people say they will never switch. While we do need new players, we also need the players we have. Many people who have recently left UO, it was not about the graphics anyways. Many that leave to play WoW, etc like I did, come back. Again its not about the graphics. Is it fun? Thats the issue.

 

[Xel Naga]

Don't need to get rid of 2D

Simply pay for GameGuard and problem solved, no euo scripters botters, speed hackers, or exploiters.

Granted there will be the ones smart enough to know how to bypass GG and still cheat but the vast majority will be like fish out of water and simply give up cheating.

Getting rid of 2d means you lose every old player who simply plays this game because of past memories and enjoyments they had in the 2d clients over the past 10 years. You get rid of the nostalgia factor from this game and no one will ever return.

 

[lucitus]

If they got rid of the 2 d client it would take them 10 mins to make one for the new client. Getting rid of 2d wont stop cheating.

Hehe you are leaving in a funny world .

 

[christy1221]

If it didn't support 2d I wouldn't buy it.

I have been playing in 2d for eight years. I've tried the kr client and I don't like it. Some of the graphics are nice but I don't like playing on it.

 

[Maplestone]

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

First they need to prove the new client is complete and playable. Then they need to let people choose of their own free will whether or not to migrate. I think that after KR's troubled introduction, it would be best to just forget strong-arming people.

(disclaimer: I say this even though I play KR-only)

 

[Demonous]

if it doesnt support 2d and EA ever gets rid of 2d, UO will lose i would guess more than half of its player base

 

[Splup]

Getting rid of 2d means you lose every old player who simply plays this game because of past memories and enjoyments they had in the 2d clients over the past 10 years. You get rid of the nostalgia factor from this game and no one will ever return.

Nostalgia factor is huge. Like I said, I would feel sad too. Usually I don't think so much when I'm logging in UO, but sometimes when I'm bit drunk and I log in, it just hits me. All the memories I have... This game has given me so much and it makes me sad to see how few of us are left on PvP scene on my shard. Even more sad is how few of my old UO friends are left... I better start sleeping, I get so emotial at late night I'm in UK at the moment in hotel room just listening to music and lying on bed with my laptop. It's 1AM here, 3AM in Finland where I normally live so getting bit tired.

Good night everyone!

 

[Kaleb]

You could never get me to play a Different client unless it has the current 2d user interface.

 

[Nexus]

I must first admit that I don't know what's the situation, if Stygian Abyss is supposed to support 2D or not. I only know that I think supporting 2D should be totally quit.

SA is and will until 95% of the player base converts according to the Devs.

Iv been playing this game since 2000, and I have tried KR three times. Everytime I'v changed back to 2D in 15 minutes, since I can get my macros right on first try and get frustrated. Even the basic function buttons that are supposed to work by default don't work. I can't open my paperdoll, KR defaults or ML defaults, it just doesnt open. Also lack of UOA is bad... But I like the graphix.

Why I still think 2D should not be supported?

This game needs new players.


2D graphix are too ugly for most of new players, and KR is just too complicated. So there's no good client at the moment. If Stygian Abyss has good sides from 2D and KR, I'm willing to give up 2D. Yes, quitting 2D will make some old players quit this game. Truth is, they will quit someday anyways, and if there's no new players when they quit, this game dies. That's why Devs should only focus on developing new client which attracts new players also. I'm not a coder, but my wild quess is that supporting also 2D makes developing new client harder.

Needs new players? At the expense of loosing old one's? Come on think...no shelf presence, no ads, nothing but word of mouth to advertise...Loose the Old players and you've cut about your only source for new blood. Also consider this, I know people who can't play KR not because of system requirements, but because they suffer from Vertigo when they play it, or most of the modern MMO's for them 2D is the only option. They may be a small percentage of the player base but they are there.



Macroing

All macroing programs support 2D only. Getting rid of 2D would end macroing atleast for a while. Propably some new programs which make macroing on new client possible would come, but maybe EA could this time try to do something about the new programs coming up. Programs that are used at the moment are so popular, that EA doesnt want to ban for using it. But they could start banning for the new program, and this way prevent it from coming that popular.

Cheats/hacks

Also all cheats that are around in PvP are 2D only. Problem solved. No more complaining about speedhacks etc.

Ghost/hidden spawncams are also used with programs that support 2D only. No-one likes spawncams...


Removing 2D would basically make this game more fair for everyone. Even thou I want to see 2D support ended, I will also be sad that day. All the memories I have from this game and 2D... But truth is, this isn't the same game I started back in 2000 anymore. So why not change it all the way.

I remember when I thought I will quit when there's no more 2D, but something has changed my mind. So if you have good arguments why 2D should stay (except the UO is 2D argument, which I pointed out earlier) I'm willing to change my mind again [/QUOTE]

No No No No No...KR or the SA client will do nothing to curb scripting and cheating. Nothing at all, here is a few tidbit for you. Some members of UO's emulation community had modified their emu engine of choice to accept and work with KR weeks before it ever left Beta (well what EA called Beta), the encryption has already been broke and the communications protocol already determined. This means all the resources for the developers of the script engines to modify their programs to work with KR is already out there, and I doubt seriously if they aren't already working on it or have it waiting to see if 2D goes poof. EA has admitted no Client can stop cheating, Punkbuster can't stop cheating they admit that also. Proprietary programs that have no public download for companies like those that make Punkbuster to obtain and fingerprint can't be detected.... How much you wanna bet if they put in something like PunkBuster there won't be an underground trade of scripting engines?

I'm not saying that 2d should never go away or that it's never going to go away, but if it does it needs to be for the proper reasons and not for misconceptions. If...they build a solid easy to use client, that's graphically friendly then yes that day may come. But KR isn't it and if SA isn't vastly different in it's interface it won't be either....

 

[Luka Melehan]

Nostalgia...I actually played some Ultima 4 this morning.

Christy your egg is soft.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

With all due respect, you may want to consider if the 2D crowd would then choose to not support SA.

I believe the UO Team has a good perspective on things in this regard.

 

[Fink]

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be"

I think if they forced a new client onto the existing playerbase, many would flat out refuse it on principle. We'd lose people to other mmo's, free shards, etc.

For my preference, they'd better have a rock-solid client if they want me to adopt it. I gave KR a good try, got into skinning because I wanted to see it in broad use. Then they announced it was "ready for launch" and I was agog; it was nowhere near ready. There were so many issues with it that 11 of my 13 characters were virtually unplayable. Believe me, I tried to get it to work, but as my grandfather used to say, "you can't polish a turd".

I think if they can make any client they want, they'd want to include a full legacy mode. A large chunk of people simply aren't going to adopt or adapt anything else.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

It was a mistake to backpedal on the client requirements for SA.

It was also a mistake to release KR in the state they did.

They need to make sure that the SA client is NOT a repeat of the KR client or 3d client release.

I can only wonder what client improvements and effects we will be losing in order to "dumb down" what was being planned for SA so that it will either not conflict with the Legacy client or work with the Legacy client.

A large chunk of people simply aren't going to adopt or adapt anything else.

Sadly this seems true and it is the "anchor effect" caused by this that will keep UO from being able to at least take the risk in updating itself and becoming a more technologically current generation MMOG and instead remain a niche market item for a little while longer.

I can understand people who have a technical issue with the new client. I can even understand people looking for certain interface abilities that may not yet be addressed.

I simply cannot understand the "anchor" logic that some people have of "I haven't tried it, I'm not going to try it, I'd rather see the game die than try it."... that one is the frustrating one, and the more I read it (more implied than outright stated), the more it makes me WANT them to ditch the Legacy client to either push them forward or to get rid of what is businesswise "dead weight". Yes, I know this includes some posters here who I otherwise consider very knowledgeable and respectable, but it's the opinion I have on that issue.

 

[laurlo]

uhm... no.

 

[Nexus]

...

It was a mistake to backpedal on the client requirements for SA.

It was also a mistake to release KR in the state they did.

They need to make sure that the SA client is NOT a repeat of the KR client or 3d client release.

I can only wonder what client improvements and effects we will be losing in order to "dumb down" what was being planned for SA so that it will either not conflict with the Legacy client or work with the Legacy client.

A large chunk of people simply aren't going to adopt or adapt anything else.

Sadly this seems true and it is the "anchor effect" caused by this that will keep UO from being able to at least take the risk in updating itself and becoming a more technologically current generation MMOG and instead remain a niche market item for a little while longer.

I can understand people who have a technical issue with the new client. I can even understand people looking for certain interface abilities that may not yet be addressed.

I simply cannot understand the "anchor" logic that some people have of "I haven't tried it, I'm not going to try it, I'd rather see the game die than try it."... that one is the frustrating one, and the more I read it (more implied than outright stated), the more it makes me WANT them to ditch the Legacy client to either push them forward or to get rid of what is businesswise "dead weight". Yes, I know this includes some posters here who I otherwise consider very knowledgeable and respectable, but it's the opinion I have on that issue.

I tried KR, I still use it for crafting and for a few other odds and ends because the interface is just better for it. I'll try SA also but if neither can live up to the ease of use that the 2D client has then neither is going to be adopted by the player base.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Again, I ask the same question that I asked in the SA thread above... is the "easiness" of the Legacy UI due to the UI itself or the familiarity with the UI.

Secondly I'll also ask on the "easiness" issue if people are including EXTERNAL programs such as UOA and UOAM into the mixture as well.

Both Legacy and KR/SA have a learning curve, and yes that means a LOT of people moving from Legacy to KR/SA have to learn how to do a lot of thing over again. It's a new system and some people will have trouble "unlearning" the old system so that they can learn the new, but even right now, I can attest, not only is the new UI (without mods so we can be fair here) more powerful, but once you understand how it utilizes itself, it's even easier to set up your desktop and macros.

I think a LOT of the "ease of use" problem is that people try something the way they are USED to doing it (or see they can't do it the way they are used to doing it) and when they don't get it the first time, they decide they have a reason to give up and go back to what is familiar.

So this simply goes back to the question of is it actual EASE or is it FAMILIARITY?

One more additional aspect from the OP of this thread. I'm going to disagree with the OP on the cheat/macro/hack aspect. I haev NEVER tried to build my support on KR on that premise because the minute KR/SA becomes the preferred client is the minute that the new client becomes the target of cheat programs (much like the same reason why Windows is more targetted than MacOS... market share... lower market share = less targetted by hackers). I do not believe that KR will "end hack programs" and I believe that that is a fallacious argument.

 

[Ender]

Agree totally. I love 2D only because of the nostalgia... The new SA client, as long as it does things fairly similar to how 2D does, SHOULD replace 2D. The ancient 2D graphics are what's keeping new players away.

 

[MalagAste]

Dermontt,

I don't know squat about computers..... really don't know anything you just said in your post don't know what UI means or anything like that....

What I do understand from your post is yes I would have to relearn the game.... I don't want to relearn the game...... I have over 40 characters..... I have NO desire at all to go through and redo all the macro's that I have on all 40 characters....

I happen to enjoy 2d..... I LOATHE the way KR makes my character look.... the males look about 50 with a seriously bad case of dunlap disease as well as a bad case of hemorrhoids. He also looks as if he's missing a cane or walker.... it's disgusting.

As well..... I like UO Assist..... I like the way it works clear up in the top bar where it DOESN'T interfere with my game play window... IF I wanted to have all the stuff I have with 2d and UO Assist in KR I would have to build so many of those stupid shortcut bars all over that my gameplay window would be smaller than the box I'm typing in right now..... just because of all the crap I'd have to have all over my screen.....

I can't even figure out how to talk, Party Chat, Guild chat, Alliance chat or any other chat in KR..... even though I have everything set to the legacy client..... I still can't do anything....


What KR really needs is a guide like Prima's guide.... I don't want to look crap up on the web while I'm trying to play.... I'd rather have it at my fingertips in a BOOK..... and if you think I'm gonna print out that many pages of stuff that's nuts. Half the time I can't even find the answers to half the questions.... I can't get the map to work right I can't get my speech right.... Heck I have a heck of a time trying to figure out how to hit anything I can't use any of my old known shortcuts..... like alt+C for warmode doesn't even work...... I just don't understand what the heck the point was in screwing all that up???!?!?!

If I really wanted to learn to play a game all over again I'd be playing that crappy WoW with everyone else..... but I don't want to play WoW..... I want to play UO...

 

[Maplestone]

Issues that need to be overcome:

performance: graphics are nice, but if the client hickups while I'm outrunning a bit-off-more-than-I-could-chew paragon, the client takes the blame, not the creature.

Comfort: many and perhaps most people here, even hardened PvPers, play this game for the warm-and-fuzzy comfort of the familiar. After 10 years, the brain has hard-wired reflexes to particular combinations of pixels and UI elements. After a year or two of development, the same has happened to the devs with the new client. The shock of the new is huge. Even though I saw it coming and braced myself for it, it took me a good six months for my imagination to "flip the switch" to thinking of UO in KR terms instead of 2d terms. That's a lot of adjustment to ask. (having an SA interface that ports 2d graphics on the SA engine is a worthwhile stepping stone)

You only get one chance to make a first impression: the devs need feedback to know where they may be going astray, but at the same time, most people will judge the program by their first experience regardless of how much you warn them that it's a beta (besides, google has redefined the word "beta" in the public consciousness to mean something that most software designers I know would consider version 1.2). KR failed the "first impression" test and now there is stubburn resistance. That battle is over - KR cannot win over the player base under that brand name. Threads like this should demonstrate that the brand is damaged (even though there are people like myself who like KR).

I do think a new client is the way to go eventually and its what you want new players to see, but it is a brutally long and difficult road to convert the existing player base over. Whatever you do, don't try to push people to the KR client as it currently exists - even though I play it and am happy with it, it is not stable enough to win over the skeptical. Opinions will simply harden.

I'm very encouraged by what I hear about the SA updates, but until it hits our computers and we see how well it faces the rigors of our obessive play, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves or we're just setting ourselves up for another schism.

 

[Kazar]

I have only been playing about 7 years and in this span of time 2D has always been there. 3D died out and 2D was still there. KR has nice graphics and my brother (Tazar) loves it. There is room for both. Choose one or both but, play what you want.(I prefer 2D) If you don't like 2D then go to KR. And if you don't like either one well.....go to a different game. This is what it is. Get over it.

 

[Nexus]

...

Again, I ask the same question that I asked in the SA thread above... is the "easiness" of the Legacy UI due to the UI itself or the familiarity with the UI.

Secondly I'll also ask on the "easiness" issue if people are including EXTERNAL programs such as UOA and UOAM into the mixture as well.

When I say Easiness, I'm talking bout how simple it is to set up macro's as compared to KR, and the speech functions. While I know almost every other MMO uses a more complex speech control similar to KR's I don't like it. It goes against basic typing instruction. You don't start a sentence by hitting enter, you end it. 2D's interface is more intuitive and natural for someone just picking up the game in that respect.

UOAssist, yea I have it but I don't rely on it. I think the majority of the macro's I use UOAssist are for repetitive actions for skill gains like with Begging, or for turning in community collections items where I have to to target multiple targets in succession. Could I do this manually sure..and I have. Other than that the sole benefit I get off having UOAssist on 3 of my 4 accounts is the status bar up at the top, which I only look at to keep track of how much gold I'm carrying and my weight. All my other hot keys and Macros are set up through UO's interface. As far as UOAM, I use it to keep tabs on locations I find like IDOC's so I can get a different character there if I find it on one that can't mark runes, and I also track open plots there for when a newbie to one of the guilds I'm in turns up looking for one. I don't think for me loss of 3rd Party programs would be a huge issue, annoying yes for some things, game stopping not at all.

 

[Lady Michelle]

Dermontt,

I don't know squat about computers..... really don't know anything you just said in your post don't know what UI means or anything like that....

What I do understand from your post is yes I would have to relearn the game.... I don't want to relearn the game...... I have over 40 characters..... I have NO desire at all to go through and redo all the macro's that I have on all 40 characters....

I happen to enjoy 2d..... I LOATHE the way KR makes my character look.... the males look about 50 with a seriously bad case of dunlap disease as well as a bad case of hemorrhoids. He also looks as if he's missing a cane or walker.... it's disgusting.

As well..... I like UO Assist..... I like the way it works clear up in the top bar where it DOESN'T interfere with my game play window... IF I wanted to have all the stuff I have with 2d and UO Assist in KR I would have to build so many of those stupid shortcut bars all over that my gameplay window would be smaller than the box I'm typing in right now..... just because of all the crap I'd have to have all over my screen.....

I can't even figure out how to talk, Party Chat, Guild chat, Alliance chat or any other chat in KR..... even though I have everything set to the legacy client..... I still can't do anything....


What KR really needs is a guide like Prima's guide.... I don't want to look crap up on the web while I'm trying to play.... I'd rather have it at my fingertips in a BOOK..... and if you think I'm gonna print out that many pages of stuff that's nuts. Half the time I can't even find the answers to half the questions.... I can't get the map to work right I can't get my speech right.... Heck I have a heck of a time trying to figure out how to hit anything I can't use any of my old known shortcuts..... like alt+C for warmode doesn't even work...... I just don't understand what the heck the point was in screwing all that up???!?!?!

If I really wanted to learn to play a game all over again I'd be playing that crappy WoW with everyone else..... but I don't want to play WoW..... I want to play UO...

hehe wow 40 characters I thought for me having 17 chars was alot. could you name all of them without having to look? hehe

 

[NuSair]

Here's a hint for ya.

There are generic scripting/macro'ing programs out there that don't care what game/client you are playing, they just work.

There are accessories you can buy (I call them macro pads) that emmulate some of those functions as well.

Making SA non-2D does nothing to stop scripting/macro'ing.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

Don't need to get rid of 2D

Simply pay for GameGuard and problem solved, no euo scripters botters, speed hackers, or exploiters.

Granted there will be the ones smart enough to know how to bypass GG and still cheat but the vast majority will be like fish out of water and simply give up cheating.

Getting rid of 2d means you lose every old player who simply plays this game because of past memories and enjoyments they had in the 2d clients over the past 10 years. You get rid of the nostalgia factor from this game and no one will ever return.

I think that sums it up pretty well right there actually.

I know I am willing to give a new client it's fair shot but 2d IS UO for me. I spent 11 years playing this game in 2d and to me changing the graphics is almost and insult. Would you take your classic corvette and tear the body off of it to add some new "modern" one that looked horrible to you?

 

[tipsy]

I think that sums it up pretty well right there actually.

I know I am willing to give a new client it's fair shot but 2d IS UO for me. I spent 11 years playing this game in 2d and to me changing the graphics is almost and insult. Would you take your classic corvette and tear the body off of it to add some new "modern" one that looked horrible to you?

I think Jeremy announced in a 5 on friday that they are making SA to work with 2D.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Macroing
All macroing programs support 2D only.

Cheats/hacks
Also all cheats that are around in PvP are 2D only.

Ghost/hidden spawncams are also used with programs that support 2D only.

Removing 2D would basically make this game more fair for everyone.

So if you have good arguments why 2D should stay (except the UO is 2D argument, which I pointed out earlier) I'm willing to change my mind again

You are mostly wrong on most of the points you are trying to make... the KR client can do most of those things. I used to think the same things that youa re arguing.

KR DOES have some serious issues, chiefly stability. I hated the switch, but am playing it constantly and getting to like its feature more and more, even though I can't use UOAssist. The dressing macro is just awesome. But I crash 4 or 5 times an hour, and each time from doing something different.

You certainly don't want to drive away the majority of players because of a client switch, but no matter how good a new client is, nostalgia will cause many to leave. Other than losing current players, the biggest disadvantage to having two clients is that it takes away from developers' time to maintain and program two individual clients.

 

[Spree]

When Gm Ford or Toyota make a new car all the basic functions are the same. You can get out of a get out of a 1997 car and drive a 2009 model. If KR was a car they put the steering wheel on the roof the gas pedal under the seat and the brake in the trunk. If the basic functions of SA aren't the same as 2d I dont think it will ever catch on.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Christy your egg is soft.

That just sounds so..........personal.......

 

[Splup]

I was afraid this will be huge flamewar but very good points are made here I think.

I'm kinda counting on that they'v learned from mistakes they made in KR and SA will easier to adapt then KR user interface, and that it won't be launched before it really is ready. You can always atleast hope.

Yes, forcing people to use crappy client is very very bad idea. But if SA really is a good client, I see no point dragging 2D slowing down developing. Thou maybe it would be better to wait for people to start using new client willingly then forcing. And after most of players are already using new client, then quit 2D. Problem just is that large group of 2D users won't prolly even try the new client if they don't haveto.

 

[Violence]

Sorry but there's a very good speedhack out there that works for KR just as good if you know how to tweak the settings.

I won't say more, 'cuz as many people tell me I know **** and I am worth ****.

So everyone calm down, this is just me talking nonsense. Not.

 

[Yalp]

I do so appreciate the effort that went into creating KR client. If I was just starting out, I may make the decision to learn the game on KR. I wouldn't know about the differences between the 2 clients because I wouldn't have experience with both.

To force everyone to play exclusively in KR would be a mistake in my opinion. Many players would leave the game. From a business perspective, would this be helpful? Would there be MORE new players than departing players? Would costs outweigh benefit? How would you get those new players? Word of mouth? Or a concerted PR campaign? We all know the status on UO PR campaigns (anyone expect this would be different with SA?). Word of Mouth? Having a bunch of upset customers who just dropped your product expressing their feelings about your product might not be something a smart business executive hopes for.

I suspect, if EA/Mythic does not support SA on 2d client, it might be a mistake not easily corrected.

** thought I saw a comment somewhere from the devs that 2d will remain until 90% of the player base is using KR? Anyone else remember that?****

 

[Maplestone]

95% was mentioned in the town hall. They also sounded pretty convinced given their KR-reaction experience that it wasn't going to happen any time in the forseeable future.

 

[Uriah Heep]

the males look about 50 with a seriously bad case of dunlap disease as well as a bad case of hemorrhoids. He also looks as if he's missing a cane or walker.... it's disgusting.

Hey HEY!!! Don't be mean! We can't help it!

 

[Aran]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, no 2D = no me.

 

[Moonstar]

horrible idea.
If you don't want to play SA in 2d then don't.
The graphics are just fine for us old players and if new players don't like it, they have KR they can play.
You didn't make any good points on why SA should only come in KR client.
because we need new players? yea right, we'd lose more than we gained, and alot more just wouldnt buy SA and they ( EA/mythic whoever ) would have spent more money making the EP than they would gain from selling it.

I've never been ab to play UO on anything but 2d
I tried 3D back in the day and it was all kinds of messed up .. unplayable.
I tried KR and peronally i don't knwo what the difference is between what 3D was and what KR is. maybe i just didnt stay on long enough to see, but i couldn't help it .. it was unplayable And ugly too.

 

[Phaen Grey]

There is no use in arguing the point, the Dev's have said they aren't considering doing away with 2d until 95% of the player base is using the new client. I got really excited about KR and when it came out I couldn't use it on my machine, I haven't been able to patch or download a new version that's not corrupted since last winter.

I will try the SA client, and I hope it offers some features I don't have in 2d, but until it works for me like 2d does I won't convert. If I am forced to change I will find a free shard or play another game. Whether we know or not, the Dev's keep track of what clients are being logged in, and know where their money is coming from. I don't see them risking their revenue by not supporting the 2d client until the players have chosen to abandon it.

_____________

 

[Raider Red]

Nostalgia...I actually played some Ultima 4 this morning.

Christy your egg is soft.

How can I find copies of the older ultimas that will run on the newer systmes?I am partially fond of ultima: curse of the black gate that came out for the super nintendo a few years ago( lol ),If I remember correctly either that one or the one after it starts with the avatar(your character) laying on a sacrificial altar about to be sacrficed by gargoyles,which was cool becuase it gave my kid brother nightmares about gargoyles becasue he wasn't expceting that sort of thing from a video game back then.

of course Karma came back and got me(for being happy my brother was scared) when I bought resident evil and those darn hybrid dgos came crashing through the windows when I walked down the quite hallway,hehe.

ps sorry for the misspelled words I am a little woozy from pain meds.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

You're thinking of Ultima 6 (the one that starts with the sacrificial altar).

Right now, you can find remakes and methods of getting older Ultimas online with a bit of looking.

Not sure on Ultima 1, there was an independant 3d version being produced, but it was later cancelled.

2 and 3 I don't know if there are remakes around.

4 has been done as a NeverWinter Nights module I believe for NWN2

5 has been completed as a Dungeon Siege module as Utima V: Lazarus (and has an AMAZING soundtrack to it IMO, though I could never really get into the game itself)

6 was the first one I played on the PC (picked up the game during the era when the "Quests" from Sierra were huge and was blown away by the depth of the game at the time with NPCs having their own lives, conversations via keywords, freedom to go wherever whenever (vs following certain paths at certain times and only when you get certain items to do so). It is also availible as a Dungeon Siege mod currently in production (they released "milestone 5" not too long ago).

7 and 7 part 2 can be played via a program called Exult but requires that you have the games installed to work. MUCH easier than trying to get a DOS boot disk to run it in this day and age (or even when it was originally released fgor that matter)

8 dunno about

9 you would still need the game discs, but there are fan-made patches to try and fix the storyline and a few other bugs.

 

[Aran]

8 runs just fine under DOSBox and I'm pretty sure I've gotten it running natively under XP.

9 was perfectly playable for me right out of the box, no bugs, no crashes, etc. I guess I got lucky.

 

[Crysta]

8 dunno about

Pentagram. From the Exult team I think. Don't feel like getting the link but shouldn't be hard to find.

Closest I know to a remake of 3 was the NES port, honestly (the fanmade GBC port was a straight port.. NES one had enough changes to be a remake).

 

[soze]

I must first admit that I don't know what's the situation, if Stygian Abyss is supposed to support 2D or not. I only know that I think supporting 2D should be totally quit.

Iv been playing this game since 2000, and I have tried KR three times. Everytime I'v changed back to 2D in 15 minutes, since I can get my macros right on first try and get frustrated. Even the basic function buttons that are supposed to work by default don't work. I can't open my paperdoll, KR defaults or ML defaults, it just doesnt open. Also lack of UOA is bad... But I like the graphix.

Why I still think 2D should not be supported?

This game needs new players.

2D graphix are too ugly for most of new players, and KR is just too complicated. So there's no good client at the moment. If Stygian Abyss has good sides from 2D and KR, I'm willing to give up 2D. Yes, quitting 2D will make some old players quit this game. Truth is, they will quit someday anyways, and if there's no new players when they quit, this game dies. ********************************************************************






So your position is to give the current player base, the ones who have been keeping the game from sinking, the big finger in exchange for MAYBE attracting new a new player base.

And the reason for this is "THey will quit someday anyways". Wow...hope you aren't in charge of a company.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Did you get 9 earlier or later? Earlier releases were NOTORIOUS for bugs.

Personally, for me, even without bugs the game was unplayable simply because of the camera/movement system used with the game. The rest was the storyline.

 

[Ender]

I'm waiting to replay IX until the remake for Oblivion is done (if it's ever done).

 

[Aran]

...

Did you get 9 earlier or later? Earlier releases were NOTORIOUS for bugs.

Personally, for me, even without bugs the game was unplayable simply because of the camera/movement system used with the game. The rest was the storyline.

Less than a month after release.

 

[Raider Red]

...

You're thinking of Ultima 6 (the one that starts with the sacrificial altar).

Right now, you can find remakes and methods of getting older Ultimas online with a bit of looking.

Not sure on Ultima 1, there was an independant 3d version being produced, but it was later cancelled.

2 and 3 I don't know if there are remakes around.

4 has been done as a NeverWinter Nights module I believe for NWN2

5 has been completed as a Dungeon Siege module as Utima V: Lazarus (and has an AMAZING soundtrack to it IMO, though I could never really get into the game itself)

6 was the first one I played on the PC (picked up the game during the era when the "Quests" from Sierra were huge and was blown away by the depth of the game at the time with NPCs having their own lives, conversations via keywords, freedom to go wherever whenever (vs following certain paths at certain times and only when you get certain items to do so). It is also availible as a Dungeon Siege mod currently in production (they released "milestone 5" not too long ago).

7 and 7 part 2 can be played via a program called Exult but requires that you have the games installed to work. MUCH easier than trying to get a DOS boot disk to run it in this day and age (or even when it was originally released fgor that matter)

8 dunno about

9 you would still need the game discs, but there are fan-made patches to try and fix the storyline and a few other bugs.

Thanks for the info.I couldn't remember if it was 5 or 6 (didn't get all the way through it but was blown away with the npcs and their own backstories too)and I Did play and beat the ultima accension it was pretty cool and I relaly liked the 3d feel to it too bad Ultima online doesn't look like that.

as for the OP If uo kills 2d I will kill my accounts,unless they make KR or SA or whatever client they choose have and UI just like 2d,becasue everytime I try to use KR I get confused and po'd about not being able to even collect a darned BOD.

 

[Sindris]

If they didn't support the 2d Client with SA, I wouldn't buy it. I'd wager a lot of other people wouldn't buy it either and that's why they ARE making it 2D compatible.