Returning player - what state is pvp in these days?

[Skelf]

I am reposting this from the Assassin board where it has attracted no replies..;( From what I can see, this board is more active and there is obviously considerable overlap in subject matter.

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I played UO for 5 years, leaving around 5-6 years ago - and have decided to give it another whirl, though maybe not *quite* as obsessively as last time..;p. Having left just as power scrolls etc were entering the game, I see a lot has changed. There are a number of areas where I would dearly like some advice or current information:

1. How does the current balance between dexers, mages and stealthers lie? How long do fights last assuming no ganking? Is there time for healing skills - potions, Chiv, Bushido, magery etc - to have a decisive effect on the outcome of a 1 v 1 or is damage output so high that their effect is minimal?

2. I started with the assumption that I would make a stealther as this is the playstyle I am most comfortable with. The template decisions now are very tight... The biggest decision seems to be whether or not to retain Poisoning for Infectious Strike - in whuch case Fencing is required - or to use a mule to poison Shuriken and rely in Ninj to poison (albeit not with any chance of top level poison).

So - how hard is it now to cure lvl 5 poison by the various means available? It used to be significantly harder and unless successful, the fight was over. Is that still the case? I assume that ppl will run with close to max poison resists - does that mean that there is a 70% chance of outright resisting any attempt to poison a target? Do the higher level poisons overwrite lower ones?

If Lvl 5 poison is still deadly, then the investment in Poisoning might be worthwhile. If, on the other hand, it is reliably curable, then lvl 4 might suffice and the points be used elsewhere to either boost offence or provide healing/recovery.

3. Equipment. There are so many new items available over and above crafted ones. In fact, most of the artifacts look to be easier to obtain than a valorite hammer..;p

Are there any items, weapons or armour considered to be *must haves*? I see that mage armour doesn't inhibit stealth and that there are reasonably good plate artifacts with the mage quality. Would it be feasible to try and design a template based on these rather that the traditional leather/studded? I'm not impressed by the "assassin armour" at all from what I have seen. So - suggestions for items and armour?

Weapons. As a Fencer, I settled on Enchanted Titan Legbone as the mainstay weapon. Fast, 40% Lightning, 40% lower defence, 10% Hit chance, 20% Damage (bit low considering player made can get 40%). Main disadvantage is that it is 2 handed - but they are widely available for less than 5k on Europa. Backups are DP'd crafted daggers or Night's Kiss/Flesh Ripper. However, for PvP I was considering a switch to Darkened Sky as main: 60% Lightning (!), 25% swing speed, 50% damage (I know the pvp cap) - very fast with the speed increase and greater agility but still 2 handed. The specials aren't that good for pvp though unless in a large melee.

So - I'm sure there are better weapons - any suggestions? Of course, if one drops Poisoning then both Swords and Mace look better options...

That's enough for now. ...;p I have more questions but I'd better keep this post readable.

Thanks in advance for any help with the above.

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[lysarius]

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1. How does the current balance between dexers, mages and stealthers lie? How long do fights last assuming no ganking? Is there time for healing skills - potions, Chiv, Bushido, magery etc - to have a decisive effect on the outcome of a 1 v 1 or is damage output so high that their effect is minimal?

[/ QUOTE ]Welcome back. Always good to see a returning player! I'm not a hard core PvPer but based on my experience (and the main gripes I see on the boards) archers and necros have an edge right now. Dexers can also be competitive if you have a good connection and some way to poison. Mages are alway good but the most effective mage builds usually have necro added in. (Necro is also a popular add on for archer and dex templates.) Most warrior templates have ninjitsu or bushido thrown in.

I wouldnt run a template without healing. Damage comes VERY quickly. Most battles are a game of tag. When someone gets wounded they run and heal then come back. If you cant heal quickly on the run then your offense has to be so overwhelming that you can drop your opponent before they ever get you on the defense. (NOTE: attacking from stealth, poison stars/darts, and deathstrike can be used to kill before they know what happened. If it goes badly pop a smoke bomb and reset... but I still like healing.)

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2. I started with the assumption that I would make a stealther as this is the playstyle I am most comfortable with. The template decisions now are very tight... The biggest decision seems to be whether or not to retain Poisoning for Infectious Strike - in whuch case Fencing is required - or to use a mule to poison Shuriken and rely in Ninj to poison (albeit not with any chance of top level poison).

[/ QUOTE ] Opinions vary but I feel pretty strongly about this one. IMO poisoning is not worth the points on a ninja. Ninjitsu already lets you deadly poison (even at a range!) Putting poisoning on a cramped ninja template just doesnt give you enough extra to justify 80-100 skill points.

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So - how hard is it now to cure lvl 5 poison by the various means available? It used to be significantly harder and unless successful, the fight was over. Is that still the case?

[/ QUOTE ]It is harder to cure with lvl 1 cure. greater cure is pretty effective but a little slow to cast. Most people dont run with high enough chiv to cure it reliably but.... greater cure poitons are VERY reliable. A lot of PvPers carry huge stacks of greater cures and drink them about half a second after you poison them. The only people that really have it bad when you lethal poison them is necros in vamp form. Vamp form prevents them from being able to drink cure potions. (Drinking garlic is a no no for vampires...)

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I assume that ppl will run with close to max poison resists - does that mean that there is a 70% chance of outright resisting any attempt to poison a target?

[/ QUOTE ] If you get hit with a star/dart (or the infectious strike weapon special) you will get poisoned 100% of the time regardless of armor. Everyone runs with 60 to 70 in all resist but that only effects how much damage you take. Of course poison does poison type damage so 70 poison resists means they will block 70% of the damage from each tick but the real advantage of poison is that they cant heal until the cure it. Any damage is just icing.

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Do the higher level poisons overwrite lower ones?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes
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If Lvl 5 poison is still deadly, then the investment in Poisoning might be worthwhile. If, on the other hand, it is reliably curable, then lvl 4 might suffice and the points be used elsewhere to either boost offence or provide healing/recovery.

[/ QUOTE ]Unless you are in vamp form just drink a greater cure poiton to cure ANY level of poison. If you are in vamp form it switches. All poison below lethal is cured automatically but lethal is really dangerous since you cant use cure poitons.

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3. Equipment. There are so many new items available over and above crafted ones. In fact, most of the artifacts look to be easier to obtain than a valorite hammer..;p

Are there any items, weapons or armour considered to be *must haves*? I see that mage armour doesn't inhibit stealth and that there are reasonably good plate artifacts with the mage quality. Would it be feasible to try and design a template based on these rather that the traditional leather/studded? I'm not impressed by the "assassin armour" at all from what I have seen. So - suggestions for items and armour?

[/ QUOTE ]ARMOR:
If you are a stealther you want all medable armor. Barbed kit armor is good but there are several good artifacts around too. You basically want to build a set that has 60+ in all resist and then get the best mod that you can. (You might even go for 80+ in fire resist so that when you are corpse skinned your fire resist stays high.) If you are melee or archer template then you want as much HCI as you can get (capped at 45). DCI is also good (capped at 45). If you have a casting skill on your template (chiv, necro) then FC and FCR are good. (Also consider LMC and mana regen).

HCI, DCI, FC, FCR are largely on jewelry (or weapons) but some of the artifacts have them on armor.
- I really like the rune beetle carapace for its great LMC and mana regen.
- totem of the void is really good. It gives 10 LMC (and some hp regen) in a slot that isnt competing with anything else.
- The crimson cincture (drops on peerless ML bosses) is a no brainer. +10 hps (and some hp regen) in the apron clothing slot.


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Weapons. As a Fencer, I settled on Enchanted Titan Legbone as the mainstay weapon. Fast, 40% Lightning, 40% lower defence, 10% Hit chance, 20% Damage (bit low considering player made can get 40%). Main disadvantage is that it is 2 handed - but they are widely available for less than 5k on Europa. Backups are DP'd crafted daggers or Night's Kiss/Flesh Ripper. However, for PvP I was considering a switch to Darkened Sky as main: 60% Lightning (!), 25% swing speed, 50% damage (I know the pvp cap) - very fast with the speed increase and greater agility but still 2 handed. The specials aren't that good for pvp though unless in a large melee.

So - I'm sure there are better weapons - any suggestions? Of course, if one drops Poisoning then both Swords and Mace look better options...

[/ QUOTE ]WEAPONS: Look for weapons with fast swing speeds, good weapon specials, and good magic abilities. (Then set up macros to switch between weapons on the fly during combat)
HOW FAST: I dont usually consider weapons with a base swing speed over 2.75 unless they have really good swing speed increase and I am running a high stamina template.
WHAT WEAPON SPECIAL:
- Armor ignore can be useful but is capped at 35 in PvP.
- Concussion blow is good.
- Bleed is awesome!!!
- Infectious strike is good but since you are a ninja you can poison without
- disarm can be really effective (and really annoying)
- dismount can be very good. (Especially since you are probably on foot if you are stealthing around)
- mortal strike can be good but you are probably using stars/darts to keep them from healing
WHAT MAGUC ABILITS:
- hit lightning and hit fireball are VERY good
- hit lower defense is VERY good
- hit lower attack can be useful
- swing speed is a must if the weapon has a base speed greater than than 2

NOTE: If you have ninjitsu then you will need a free hand to throw stars/darts. This means you want to focus on one handed weapons. (I only use 2 handed weapons in PvM or to quickly switch into one for a waeapon special and then switch back to my one handed weapons)

I LOVE the darkened sky in PvM but in PvP I usually go with a fast war fork.


Welcome back and enjoy!

 

[Skelf]

Mnay thanks, Lysarius - just the sort of reply I was hoping for.

Some other questions - if I can take up your time again ;p

1.Totems - are any of the reward Talismans worth considering? The Cu Sidhe one that autoheals - I assume you actually have to have Healing in your template for that to happen (as well as be in animal form)?

2. What form of self-healing would you consider optimal? Potions are a given, I was used to magery but like Chiv you stand still whilst it happens - not good. However, both could be effective at less than 100-120 skill points whereas Healing really wants to have Anatomy as well. I am not yet familiar with the self healing tricks in Bushido... If it came down to a choice between Chiv and Healing, which would you opt for?

3. Damage increase - capped at 100% for pvm - is is capped lower for pvp? I am beginning to feel Ninj has to kill quick or get out of Dodge - perhaps the emphasis should be on damage output? On that theme, where can I find a breakdown of how Death Strike (and the other Ninja skills) work - which skills I need to get best damage etc

If Poisoning is dropped, I think that Swords or Mace are better than Fencing - happily I have &gt;100 on both on other characters and can stoneswitch.

Cheers and thanks again.

 

[Skelf]

Addendum:

Checked out War Fork - I loathe (personally) the concept and image of a giant *fork*..;p...and subconciously wrote that one off..but being essentially a pvp minimax pragmatist, I looked at it again...mmm, Bleed and Disarm - both very nice 1 v 1 pvp specials. However, that would mean sticking with Fencing which in turn, really means keeping Poisoning. Unless I find/make a "use best weapon skill" fork of course.

Last question for now - this is probably simply my ignorance/inability to find the info:

What difference does having a "plate" piece of armour as against a leather/studded etc piece actually make? Obviously there are med/mage and weight considerations - but I can't find a reference as to what additional degree of protection "plate" might afford. Has it all come down to resist issues or does the physical nature of the armour still make a difference?

I ask because I am thinking of trying to construct a mage/medable suit (for ninja) out of decent plate items...

It used to be there was a Dex penalty for wearing heavy armour - and this penalised the stealthy classes. Now Dex doesn't seem to figure so much except for swing speed and healing.

Cheers and thanks in advance to anyone who can answer..;p

 

[lysarius]

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1.Totems - are any of the reward Talismans worth considering? The Cu Sidhe one that autoheals - I assume you actually have to have Healing in your template for that to happen (as well as be in animal form)?

[/ QUOTE ] Sadly they are just for fun
- squirrel = no benefit besides the ability to look cute and make wisecrack acorn jokes
-- reptalon = SLOW (walking speed) and the breath attack isnt very good
- Cu Sidhe = SLOW (walking speed) but you can auto-heal without the healing skill. (If I remeber correctly you just need to carry bandaids.) The problem is that it doesnt heal much and it takes so long that you will be dead long before the first bandaid kicks in.
- I'm at loss to remember what the fourth talisman did (+20 stealing and walking speed maybe?), but the very fact that I dont remember gives you some idea how useful it has been...

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2. What form of self-healing would you consider optimal? Potions are a given, I was used to magery but like Chiv you stand still whilst it happens - not good. However, both could be effective at less than 100-120 skill points whereas Healing really wants to have Anatomy as well. I am not yet familiar with the self healing tricks in Bushido... If it came down to a choice between Chiv and Healing, which would you opt for?

[/ QUOTE ] In addition to potions and dog form regen, I use chiv with 4/6 casting. Its' the best bang for the skill point cost and also gives me the abilty to sacred journey, refresh stamina (divine fury), res in a pinch (noble sacrifice), etc
The other options are:
- magery: VERY useful (even without eval int) but: It's slower than 4/6 chiv healing, it limits me to spell channeling weapons, and I need regs (since there is no way to get 100% LRC in addition to the other mods I want)-
- healing: Sweet ability to heal on the run but it really needs anatomy and I cant justify 180+ points to heal/cure/res when I can all those and more for 80 points in chiv
- spirit speak: necro ninjas can be A LOT of fun but the templates are pretty cramped these days
- bushido: can heal on the run over time, but it really begs for parry. I cant go 200-240 points. (In all fairness I haven't ever fully tested out the ninja bushido combo)

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3. Damage increase - capped at 100% for pvm - is is capped lower for pvp? I am beginning to feel Ninj has to kill quick or get out of Dodge - perhaps the emphasis should be on damage output? On that theme, where can I find a breakdown of how Death Strike (and the other Ninja skills) work - which skills I need to get best damage etc

[/ QUOTE ] DI (from items) is also capped at 100% PvP. I agree ninja needs high quick damage output, but I think DI is a nice secondary skill. For example, if you have a weapon that does a base avergae of 15 per hit then at 100% DI it would 15 points per hit... but after 70% armor thats 4.5 per hit (round down to 4 per hit)... not worth going out of your way to get. I'd take a good hit lightning weapon over DI any day. (Especially since focus attack will allow me to do +30% damage and hit lightning on almost every attack.)

At the end of the day normal damage from weapon swings isnt going to do damage fast enoughto kill even if you have 100% DI. Your deathstrike and weapon specials (AI, bleed, concussion blow, etc) are going to be what makes or breaks your offense.

See the ninja FAQ post (at the top of the forum) for info on all the ninja abilities
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If Poisoning is dropped, I think that Swords or Mace are better than Fencing - happily I have &gt;100 on both on other characters and can stoneswitch.

[/ QUOTE ] Maces - very tempting for concussion blow but they are soo slow. However the diamond mace is interesting.
Swords - Lots of good choices here with pretty fast weapons and good weapon special here.
Fencing - Just so many fast swinging weapons...with hit lightning.. its still my choice but I have been tempted to switch to swords

 

[lysarius]

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Checked out War Fork - I loathe (personally) the concept and image of a giant *fork*..;p...and subconciously wrote that one off..but being essentially a pvp minimax pragmatist, I looked at it again...mmm, Bleed and Disarm - both very nice 1 v 1 pvp specials. However, that would mean sticking with Fencing which in turn, really means keeping Poisoning. Unless I find/make a "use best weapon skill" fork of course.

[/ QUOTE ] Actually, it may just be me, but almost every war fork I find or craft ends up with use best weapon skill. It's not 100% by any means but it happens often enough that I have wondered if it is a bug.

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Last question for now - this is probably simply my ignorance/inability to find the info:

What difference does having a "plate" piece of armour as against a leather/studded etc piece actually make? Obviously there are med/mage and weight considerations - but I can't find a reference as to what additional degree of protection "plate" might afford. Has it all come down to resist issues or does the physical nature of the armour still make a difference?

[/ QUOTE ]sadly metal armor has absolutely no beneffit over leather. Hopefully they will address this someday, but right now leather armor protects just as well as metal armor. leather armor is automatically medable. leather armor has lower strength requirements than metal armor.... metal armor just doesnt have much going for it.

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I ask because I am thinking of trying to construct a mage/medable suit (for ninja) out of decent plate items...

It used to be there was a Dex penalty for wearing heavy armour - and this penalised the stealthy classes. Now Dex doesn't seem to figure so much except for swing speed and healing.

Cheers and thanks in advance to anyone who can answer..;p

[/ QUOTE ] The dex penalty was removed several years ago. Now all leather armor is "medable" (you can stealth without fail at 80 skill and use the meditate skill). All other armor prevents the use of the meditation skill and lowers your chance to stealth unless it has the magic proprty of "mage armor". The increase in the difficulty to stealth for non "mage armor" increases based on the weight and type of each non mage armor piece in your suit. Even at 120 stealth it is impossible to make a stealth check in a full suit of studded armor (without the mage armor property). It just gets worse when you go to heavier armor.... A metal suit will work but you will need to look for peices that have the mage armor property.

 

[Skelf]

Again..thanks L for the concise and useful replies..;p

Ok..I am clearly missing something here - I have ninja belt and freshly manufactured and poisoned shuriken...erm...how do I actually load them into the belt? I have tried all the obvious ways (apart from the one that works that is..;p).

Golden opportunity for someone to make me feel dumb .. lol

Thanks to whoever can help me

 

[lysarius]

They are a pain to load.
- poison your stars with the poisoning skill
- right click the ninja belt and you will get a menu
- selcet the load belt option and target the stars
- repeat until your belt is full up to 10 uses

You can make it a little less cumbersome if you have "last object" assigned to a macro key. After you load the first star by right clicking the belt for the menu, just use the "last object" macro and you will get the targeting cursor to select the starts without having to repeat the menu steps all the time. Repeat "last object" and select your stars until the belt is filled to 10 uses.

As a side note: Ninja belts can be blessed with a clothing bless deed and they do not have to be equipped to use. I carry 3 of them on me at all times

 

[Death Adder]

Some tips about Shuriken/Darts:

1) As long as they are not empty, you can load a belt/****iya by double-clicking them and (instead of targeting an enemy) targeting your stack of shuriken/darts.

2) Due to #1, you can use a UOA macro to automatically load your belt/****iya, which looks like this:

Use Item (belt/****iya)
Target Item Type (shuriken/darts)

3) You can insure stacks of shuriken/darts (of up to 10 each). My ninja always carries about 100 of each (10 stacks of 10).

4) The new Parasitic Poison does just as much damage as Deadly Poison, but will also heal you if you are within 1 tile when the damage tick hits. So I'd use Parasitic (and do).

And finally, a tip about your weapon-skill. Only take a melee weapon-skill if that is your strong personal preference or for RP reasons. If you are looking for maximum combat deadliness, you must take Archery. In your day it sucked, but it's now the strongest of all the combat skills, by a considerable margin IMO. I personally prefer to play a meleer (for RP reasons), but since my playstyle results in a lot of solo PvP vs. the gank, to maximize my effectiveness I'm sporting a sick Composite Bow.

 

[Skelf]

OK...slowly getting up to speed on these changes..;p

Tried Archery...you are correct - very strong. Some questions though:

1. What are the most popular pvp bows/xbows? I guess HXB for dismount as an opener on many targets? After that..something with prevent heal or concussive? Or maybe ignore armour..that works a treat in pvm..p

2. Speed over heavy hitting is my guess..got to interrupt those heals and spells?

3. Does use best weapon skill count Archery as a weapon skill? Do you need native skill in the weapon type in order to use the special moves when equipping a use best weapon skill item?

4. Hasn't Death Strike with archery been halved/nerfed? Is Archery/Ninja still a worthwhile combo?

and finally, the bit I haven't discussed at all - template. It's stating to look like this:

Weapon skill - not specified yet - 120 (scrolled to 115 still)
Ninjitsu - 120 (115)
Hiding 100
Stealth 80 locked (115)
Tactics 90 locked (110)
Chivalry 100 (100 - could raise this if there is a clear benefit?)
Resist Spells 100 (100)

leaving 10 points plus whatever skill bonuses accrue from kit. Maybe Tracking? Focus or Med wouldn't be bad either

Also - planning on staying Elf for the mana bonus (read higher dex). JOAT could give that Tracking and I could raise one of the main skill set a bit...

Now I just have to earn the 5 million for the 120 scrolls and train that ***** Ninj up..it is a sod..lol

Comments anyone?

 

[lysarius]

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Tried Archery...you are correct - very strong. Some questions though:

1. What are the most popular pvp bows/xbows? I guess HXB for dismount as an opener on many targets? After that..something with prevent heal or concussive? Or maybe ignore armour..that works a treat in pvm..p

2. Speed over heavy hitting is my guess..got to interrupt those heals and spells?

[/ QUOTE ]If you are going to be a ninja archer you REALLY want a bow with the BALANCED property. This effectively makes it a one handed weapon. (You can drink poitons and throw stars/darts while it is equipped. The balanced property does not appear on bows as loot but it can appear on bows that are crafted with the ML runic flecthing kits.

After that.... Heavy is good for dismount.
Normal xbow is good for concussion
Repeating xbow is FAST and moving shot is probably TOO GOOD right now

As a ninja archer your strategy is
- attack from stealth
- keep them poisoned with stars/darts
- run them down with moving shot
- go kill your next victim

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3. Does use best weapon skill count Archery as a weapon skill? Do you need native skill in the weapon type in order to use the special moves when equipping a use best weapon skill item?

[/ QUOTE ]UBWS does not work with bows/archery. If you are using a melee weapon (mace, sword, fencing) you DO NOT need native skill to execute weapon specials on UBWS weapons

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4. Hasn't Death Strike with archery been halved/nerfed? Is Archery/Ninja still a worthwhile combo?

[/ QUOTE ]Deathstrike damage is halved with bows. If you run a ninja archer you are mainly going to use the poison stars/darts with a BALANCED bow. Smoke bombs are also VERY handy. After that animal form can be okay but rememeber you cant use weapon specials or spells in animal form and dismount takes you out of animal form with the normal timers. If you are on foot its VERY hard to hit you if there is a mirror image around.

I'd be curious to hear what death adder thinks (I'm pretty sure he has more PvP experience than me) but I think that if you are looking for raw power, then a necro archer is hard to beat right now (of course there is no telling how future balance changes might tip the scales)

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and finally, the bit I haven't discussed at all - template. It's stating to look like this:

Weapon skill - not specified yet - 120 (scrolled to 115 still)
Ninjitsu - 120 (115)
Hiding 100
Stealth 80 locked (115)
Tactics 90 locked (110)
Chivalry 100 (100 - could raise this if there is a clear benefit?)
Resist Spells 100 (100)

leaving 10 points plus whatever skill bonuses accrue from kit. Maybe Tracking? Focus or Med wouldn't be bad either

[/ QUOTE ] For PvP I might consider lowering Chiv and running resist up as close to 120 as you can get it. OR if you want to keep high chiv then run it up to 105 so that you never fail holy light and you can spam it on the run with 4/6 casting.

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planning on staying Elf for the mana bonus (read higher dex). JOAT could give that Tracking and I could raise one of the main skill set a bit...

Now I just have to earn the 5 million for the 120 scrolls and train that ***** Ninj up..it is a sod..lol

[/ QUOTE ]The 20 mana from elf is nice but keep in mind that humans JOAT also give you free 2 (or 3) mana regen and 2 stamina regen and enough tracking that you could actually track someone for a first attack deathstrike (might do enough damage to be worth using with a bow?). Also for PvM the extra carrying capacity is nice. (Especially since bags of sending arent practical for gold anymore.)

On eearning gold... yOu may already know this, but just in case. It takes a long time to earn millions from looting gold. It doesnt take long at all to make millions on a vendor. Hunt Doom for arty drops or go to events and get event rares. Then put them on a vendor at slightly less than the average luna rates and you can get rich pretty quickly.

 

[Skelf]

As before, great info L. Many thanks.

Hadn't realised that Balanced was a player-made only property - gah...that will be $$$ or yet another GM crafter...pfft..;p Point well made though...for pots, shuri/darts and smoke, this needs to be one handed. Complex UOA macros are slower and create windows of vulnerability

UBWS not accepting Archery...didn't think it did..pity though.

You place a huge emphasis on shuriken/dart poisoning - I understand why, but I think what it's telling me is that sheer damage output on this sort of template cannot overwhelm standard healing strategies. How true is that across the board? Do other class/template paradigms suffer similarly and if so, how do they cope? Not every set of skills can poison...

I suspect Death Strike isn't worth the mana on an archer as I believe the mana, is lost whether or not Death Strike succeeds - that's not the case for weapon specials as far as I understand. This is, or will be, a template very tightly constrained for mana, particularly if I were to revert to Human for the JoAT. There will have to be judicious selection of specials/spells and, within such an environment, the value of the ability to poison at range *without* spending mana on Infectious Strike or magery is especially valuable.

I'll have to have a think about Elf/Human - the best option probably depends upon the final template/playstyle.

Earning gold...I am still at the point where I *covet* the Doom artifacts..;p Selling them...well...it's probably neccessary. What type of characters do well in Doom - I was sort of under the impression it was an experienced Tamer/Cu Sidhe/Nightmare environment - and that it needed multiple players to progress to some areas. Could a Chiv/Archer do well - assuming there is room to kite (never been there). I do have a GM Stealer if there is any loose loot..

On another slant - can you still get into Khaldun? I have visited the (Felucca) locs where there I used to be able to enter with a view to tackling the Puzzle chests - but no entrances? Has the raison d'etre of Khaldun changed now that it is the home of top tier mobs or am I looking in the wrong places now?

Finally, can I thank both you and Death Adder for concise, to the point and thoroughly useful replies. I see we have a growing "viewed" following - I suspect we may be covering some ground other players find useful. Well, I like to think I'm not the only noob out there..;p

Cheers again

 

[lysarius]

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You place a huge emphasis on shuriken/dart poisoning - I understand why, but I think what it's telling me is that sheer damage output on this sort of template cannot overwhelm standard healing strategies. How true is that across the board? Do other class/template paradigms suffer similarly and if so, how do they cope? Not every set of skills can poison...

[/ QUOTE ] IMO If you are playing against a skilled PvPer its really hard for any template to deal damage 1 on 1 faster than it can be healed. (Of course group PvP and/or ganks is another story.) Its all about preventing/interrupting healing. All consitently good PvP templates need a way ( or several ways) to prevent/disrupt healing. It might be poison, mortal wound, damage over time effects (strangle/bleed), but when you get your opponent low on health they are going to try to run and heal. You need to be able to finish them off before they can heal. Archery is particuarly powerful because moving shot allows you to follow them and deliver the kill shot on the move. If they are poisoned, or under the effect of strangle, etc then the chance of them getting a heal off before you kill them isnt good.
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Earning gold...I am still at the point where I *covet* the Doom artifacts..;p Selling them...well...it's probably neccessary. What type of characters do well in Doom - I was sort of under the impression it was an experienced Tamer/Cu Sidhe/Nightmare environment - and that it needed multiple players to progress to some areas. Could a Chiv/Archer do well - assuming there is room to kite (never been there).

[/ QUOTE ] Im not sure if you know, but in December they changed the drop rate for doom arties. Now you accumulate points for each one of the bosses you are on the top 16? damager list. Each time you help drop a boss (on the top 16 list) it checks for a drop based on how many points you have. The chance keeps building until you get an arty. Then your points reset to 0. The upshot is that you can get an arty every 1-3 days even if you are unlucky. (Of course it may be one of the lousy arties but it still feels good!) As far as Doom templates... Archers rule the gauntlet. Tamers and/or cross-healing dexers are handy to give the critters something to tank on. ( I personally run a tamer/archer/pally in Doom.)

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On another slant - can you still get into Khaldun? I have visited the (Felucca) locs where there I used to be able to enter with a view to tackling the Puzzle chests - but no entrances? Has the raison d'etre of Khaldun changed now that it is the home of top tier mobs or am I looking in the wrong places now?

[/ QUOTE ] I'm no help here. I havent been to Khaldun in ages, but as far as I know the entrances are still where they used to be. Are you sure you are looking in the right places?

 

[Death Adder]

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You place a huge emphasis on shuriken/dart poisoning - I understand why, but I think what it's telling me is that sheer damage output on this sort of template cannot overwhelm standard healing strategies. How true is that across the board? Do other class/template paradigms suffer similarly and if so, how do they cope? Not every set of skills can poison..."

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This is true across the board. It's impossible to simply overwhelm people by stacking enough damage now (with a single character, anyway, obviously ganks do this better than ever these days). You have to kill people with a sustained attack while interfering with their healing in some manner. Which isn't as big a deal as you might think -- most templates have access to poison (mages cast it, warriors have the special move, ninjas have stars/darts), and you can interrupt healing with other methods (mages use 1st circle interrupts and Harm spam, necros have strangle for interrupting, warriors use mortal strike and bleed).

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I suspect Death Strike isn't worth the mana on an archer as I believe the mana, is lost whether or not Death Strike succeeds - that's not the case for weapon specials as far as I understand. This is, or will be, a template very tightly constrained for mana, particularly if I were to revert to Human for the JoAT. There will have to be judicious selection of specials/spells and, within such an environment, the value of the ability to poison at range *without* spending mana on Infectious Strike or magery is especially valuable.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, forget Death Strike on your archer if you're mana tight. You don't need it in any case. It's designed for meleers to keep targets stationary or to inflict on them ranged damage if they run. Since archers thrive on mobile combat and have access to Moving Shot, they do not need Death Strike at all.

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I'll have to have a think about Elf/Human - the best option probably depends upon the final template/playstyle.

[/ QUOTE ]Human is better overall, IMO as JOAT is very powerful. Not only do you get a free 20 MR and Focus, for a base MR of 3, you also get the automatic special move mana reduction, so for humans specials are at -10 mana cost regardless of skillset (assuming you have 120 weaponskill, that is).