RESIST: IS IT WORTH IT?

[Storx]

I have 100 resist on my archer and it seems to make no difference in magic damage i take.
I ran by the crypt in moonglow and took a fireball that still did a little damage.. so i went on testserver and put armor on that maxed out all to 70 evern energy to 75;

went to moonglow crypt and when i was there i ran let them whale on me with magic from the otherside of the fence.. the spectra still could kill me slowly.. what gives?? what it really used for then?? if a low level magic creature can still do damage to you....with 0 or 100 magicresist

 

[Barry Gibb]

Resist Spells has no bearing on direct damage spells like fireball, energy bolt, and flamestrike. It helps protect you from poison, paralyze, and curses. It will also give you a base set of resists, if your armor is not that good.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Connor_Graham]

The primary reason for Resist on an archer is to diminish the effects of Curse so you still maintain a reasonable swing speed. Secondary is not being able to be para'd by any but the most powerful, and not having to worry much about getting poisoned, although any Imp in the game can poison any player through 120 Resist.

Those damn Imps....

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

The primary reason for Resist on an archer is to diminish the effects of Curse so you still maintain a reasonable swing speed. Secondary is not being able to be para'd by any but the most powerful, and not having to worry much about getting poisoned, although any Imp in the game can poison any player through 120 Resist.

Those damn Imps....

But the imps have all kinds of hacks and should probably not be used as examples. xD

12 flamestrikes in under a second from one monster? No problem, an imp can do it.

I think the discussion by the dev team on how the imps should work went something like this

"we need a monster that has infinite mana, 400 eval, and 900/800000 FC/FCR, but nearly NO hit points"

"Sounds like a good idea, lets call them imps"

"agreed"

 

[Diomedes Artega]

I have 100 resist on my archer and it seems to make no difference in magic damage i take.
I ran by the crypt in moonglow and took a fireball that still did a little damage.. so i went on testserver and put armor on that maxed out all to 70 evern energy to 75;

went to moonglow crypt and when i was there i ran let them whale on me with magic from the otherside of the fence.. the spectra still could kill me slowly.. what gives?? what it really used for then?? if a low level magic creature can still do damage to you....with 0 or 100 magicresist

Resist is handy so you don't stay afflicted with different adverse conditions that will effect your role-playing ability. Just for a FYI, curse is usually one of the worst spells in most rpg and online mmo's. Reason being it drastically reduces your strength and consequently affects you in other ways (less life, less weight-carrying ablity, move slower in some games, etc.).

Resist will also shrug off paralyze quite a bit depending on your resist level and what you are fighting. It can also negate poison occasionally...once again depends on what you're fighting.

It really all depends on your template setup and playing ability. Some people really like using items in place of resist. Some don't. There are occasionally places where you will regret not having resist on an archer. So keep that in mind. Items eventually run out and have to be replaced. Resist doesn't.

 

[Sir Morder]

Resist is absolutely a waste of skill pts imo. Resist works against 4 major spells, paralyze (field), any debuff spells (like curse, weaken etc.), mana vamp, and poison (field). For para spell simply carry a trapped box and keep physical resist at 70. For any curse type spells simply eat an apple or use talisman. For mana vamp, well mana regen armor is nice but abit slow. And for poison just carry pots and have a decent ep ring or bracelot. Resist used to be a must for every template but now its just a waste of points.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Resist is absolutely a waste of skill pts imo. Resist works against 4 major spells, paralyze (field), any debuff spells (like curse, weaken etc.), mana vamp, and poison (field). For para spell simply carry a trapped box and keep physical resist at 70. For any curse type spells simply eat an apple or use talisman. For mana vamp, well mana regen armor is nice but abit slow. And for poison just carry pots and have a decent ep ring or bracelot. Resist used to be a must for every template but now its just a waste of points.

For a meleer I'd tend to agree with you, but for an archer it's a completely different story.

 

[Sir Morder]

Any archer worth any salt is running with a balanced bow. So yes, even for archers, resist is worthless.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Any archer worth any salt is running with a balanced bow. So yes, even for archers, resist is worthless.

PvM archers don't need a balanced bow, and it doesn't take one in order to be a good archer. I see it more as a crutch for an archer in PvM than anything else. I'll stick with my HSL/HML/HLD/SSI/DI crossbows. Funny that in 4 yrs, I've never seen any need for a Balanced bow, yet still managed to build a reputation as a powerhouse in every event my archer has been used in. Funny that.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Actually any good mage that is worth a box of rocks will exploit the fact that a player is not running with resist. You won't be able to get back all the mana that's been sapped from you. Mana regen? meh...

Resist also works against the single target paralyze spell.

Frankly...if the developers know what they're doing, they will fix the poison and resist issues in the next expansion.

Items should not compensate a skill to deem it worthless. Other games you use items...but it is to enhance your abilities...not erase a skill altogether.

 

[Sir Morder]

PvM archers don't need a balanced bow, and it doesn't take one in order to be a good archer. I see it more as a crutch for an archer in PvM than anything else. I'll stick with my HSL/HML/HLD/SSI/DI crossbows. Funny that in 4 yrs, I've never seen any need for a Balanced bow, yet still managed to build a reputation as a powerhouse in every event my archer has been used in. Funny that.

If you are seriously using resist while pvm'ing then you really havent learned anything in the 4 yrs you have been playing. In the 11 years that i have been playing, i've never NEVER used resist while pvm'ing (including doom, peerless, champs, events, ets.) Resist is for pvp and pvp only (and only for those that do not know how to play a template). Every spell that is resistable can easily be countered without using any resist skill, even mana vamp. If you're having trouble figuring out how to play, just ask. There's alot of pep's around that have tons more experience and ideas.

 

[Connor_Graham]

If you are seriously using resist while pvm'ing then you really havent learned anything in the 4 yrs you have been playing.

Ok, sure. Whatever. Resist on an archer is a matter of opinion, regardless of what your highandmightiness might think. I prefer not to use workarounds on my archer, finding his optimal effectiveness is with Resist on the template. Since he seems to be able to outperform any other archer in every event I've used him in over the past 4 yrs, it seems to be a good choice.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Kind of a catch all argument that resist is PvP only for an archer. Can still run with a trap box and etc. Resist is situational basis and have to agree with Connor...personal preference.

 

[Odin of Europa]

Ok, sure. Whatever. Resist on an archer is a matter of opinion, regardless of what your highandmightiness might think. I prefer not to use workarounds on my archer, finding his optimal effectiveness is with Resist on the template. Since he seems to be able to outperform any other archer in every event I've used him in over the past 4 yrs, it seems to be a good choice.

I've been thinking of a good template for the upcoming Shadowlord final battle, mind telling me what your archers template is please?

 

[Connor_Graham]

I've been thinking of a good template for the upcoming Shadowlord final battle, mind telling me what your archers template is please?

Sure:

120 Archery
120 Bushido
115 Tactics
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
90 Resist
75 Chiv

Not meaning to brag, but I wasn't kidding when I said this template has outperformed every other archer template in every event I've used him in. He rarely, if ever, dies, and was able to take down a Daemon Berserker solo in Moonglow in 20 seconds, and that's not an exaggeration. This character was specifically designed for Doom, Peerless & events.

 

[Odin of Europa]

Sure:

120 Archery
120 Bushido
115 Tactics
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
90 Resist
75 Chiv

Not meaning to brag, but I wasn't kidding when I said this template has outperformed every other archer template in every event I've used him in. He rarely, if ever, dies, and was able to take down a Daemon Berserker solo in Moonglow in 20 seconds, and that's not an exaggeration. This character was specifically designed for Doom, Peerless & events.

Thanks

 

[aarons6]

Sure:

120 Archery
120 Bushido
115 Tactics
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
90 Resist
75 Chiv

Not meaning to brag, but I wasn't kidding when I said this template has outperformed every other archer template in every event I've used him in. He rarely, if ever, dies, and was able to take down a Daemon Berserker solo in Moonglow in 20 seconds, and that's not an exaggeration. This character was specifically designed for Doom, Peerless & events.

i too have one of these, he has a couple bows that is primary to what he is fighting..

bow A) crossbow, 35 ssi, 44 di. 39 hml. this is my all around crossbow that i use most of the time for small to med monsters. its fast. the mana leech keeps me at 80 to 100% between con wep and eoo and i can spam LS without stopping.
for stam i just use devine fury if it drops below 70% and i honor everything.


bow B) heavy crossbow, 35 ssi, 46 di, 38 hml, 42 hsl. this is my crossbow i use with heavy monsters with alot of hp like peerless.. it hits hard even harder if i get to honor first, but its slower then the crossbow. the stam leech keeps my stam at 100%.. and i can spam LS without running out of mana, ever...

 

[Sir Morder]

Sure:

120 Archery
120 Bushido
115 Tactics
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
90 Resist
75 Chiv

Not meaning to brag, but I wasn't kidding when I said this template has outperformed every other archer template in every event I've used him in. He rarely, if ever, dies, and was able to take down a Daemon Berserker solo in Moonglow in 20 seconds, and that's not an exaggeration. This character was specifically designed for Doom, Peerless & events.

OMG 115 tactics ?!?!?!?! you do know the difference in damage from 90 tactics to 115 tactics is practically nill??? 100 anat?!?!?!? you do know that you get just as effective heals using a bandy without anat dont you??? You do know that at gm anat you get about 1-3 pts of damage extra right? Epic fail of a template if ya ask me.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Epic fail of a template if ya ask me.

I didn't ask you, and the success of this character speaks for itself.

 

[Sir Morder]

Success on a trammy shard doesn't = success.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Success on a trammy shard doesn't = success.

It does if all you do is PvM, and have zero interest in PvP.

Way to go showing off how arrogant you can be though....

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I am rather curious, aside from siege what shard is not a trammy shard? And with that said, Success of that character would be fine for the right person, your lack of ability is no reason to insult a template, if you can't play it, then don't.

 

[northwoodschopper]

I roll with resist spells out of habit and convenience. I do remember awhile back there was a publish where spellcasting creatures were spamming mana vamp and mana drain, effectively disabling any template without resist spells, though my characters with resist were only mildly affected. Of course the screams from the no resists crowd effectively neutered spellcasting AI.

 

[dum3886]

Or just do what other ppl probably do. set a macro for instant popping a trapped box and walla... no resist needed haha. poison is cured easily and mmm wat else do u need resist for?

 

[hen]

Does trapping pouches not work anymore?

 

[Storm]

Does trapping pouches not work anymore?

no

but what does work is a tinkered trapped box of 30 skill level and it can be used over and over these do the least damage to you
spell trapping does way to much damage

 

[northwoodschopper]

mana drain is nasty without resist magic. at bare minimum vs no resist spells, it'll drain 40 mana for a few seconds, and then per point of eval int the caster has. since it's a 4th circle, competent casters can easily throw this into their combos once they find out you roll with no magic resist. monsters use to chain this frequently, though not anymore, and in pvm it's easy to rely on mana leech.

mana vampire is the same, except it's strength is purely per point of eval int of the caster, and it directly adds to the caster's mana pool. this is dangerous in pvp since you are essentially a mana battery for the caster once they find out you don't roll with resist spells, they can dump on you ending with a mana vamp, and have full mana once again. with pvm, this can be dangerous if you're relying on mana for cures and healing, as high level monsters use this fairly often.

necro curses are nasty without resist spells, notably pain spike and blood oath. since they are curses though, those apples can help though not something to rely on.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

mana drain is nasty without resist magic. at bare minimum vs no resist spells, it'll drain 40 mana for a few seconds, and then per point of eval int the caster has. since it's a 4th circle, competent casters can easily throw this into their combos once they find out you roll with no magic resist. monsters use to chain this frequently, though not anymore, and in pvm it's easy to rely on mana leech.

mana vampire is the same, except it's strength is purely per point of eval int of the caster, and it directly adds to the caster's mana pool. this is dangerous in pvp since you are essentially a mana battery for the caster once they find out you don't roll with resist spells, they can dump on you ending with a mana vamp, and have full mana once again. with pvm, this can be dangerous if you're relying on mana for cures and healing, as high level monsters use this fairly often.

necro curses are nasty without resist spells, notably pain spike and blood oath. since they are curses though, those apples can help though not something to rely on.

All nice points. Succinctly explained in comparison to how I did it.

 

[Setnaffa]

Success on a trammy shard doesn't = success.

That is your opinion, and I don't agree with it. More players play the Trammel rule-set than the Fel rules. A successful PvM template will be successful in 80% of the game. I personally play both rule-sets, but my characters are quite different in template and items.

Heavy Crossbow Damage:

125 Strength, 0 Anatomy, 0 Tactics, 0 DI: 34 100 DI: 58
125 Strength, 100 Anatomy, 0 Tactics, 0 DI: 47 100 DI: 71
125 Strength, 0 Anatomy, 100 Tactics, 0 DI: 51 100 DI: 75
125 Strength, 100 Anatomy, 100 Tactics, 0 DI: 64 100 DI: 88
125 Strength, 100 Anatomy, 115 Tactics, 0 DI: 66 100 DI: 90

I'd have to say 115 tactics doesn't seem worth it, but I like the rest of Connor's Template. Having 100% DI makes the biggest difference. I'd probably put the 15 points into Resist or Chivalry.

Back to the thread. I use Resist on my templates because I got tired of being cursed and poisoned all the time. Sure I can use potions, but that's just tedious and boring.

 

[Caelas]

For a player with only 700 points to play with, would Connor's template with say...swords...work okay with everything at 100 except for "swords" at 120 and Chiv at 80?

 

[Diomedes Artega]

For a player with only 700 points to play with, would Connor's template with say...swords...work okay with everything at 100 except for "swords" at 120 and Chiv at 80?

120 Swords and then everything else at 100 with the exception of chivalry at 80?

Well, you will in EVERY essence be a meat shield by not incorporating parry into your template. That and the fact that 100 bushido is much less effective than having 120 bushido.

A question though, why 80 chivalry? GM resist is okay but matters less on a dexxer than an archer. GM is fine though...

So you'll have to think about. Not getting the full benefit of your bushido skills in addition to being a band-aid machine...

 

[Setnaffa]

For a player with only 700 points to play with, would Connor's template with say...swords...work okay with everything at 100 except for "swords" at 120 and Chiv at 80?

Yep. Swordsmanship really needs Parry to be successful. If you want to be a Swordsman at 700 points, you might want to try something like this:

120 Swords
120 Bushido
119 Parry
100 Tactics
81 Anatomy (81 is required for curing last time I checked)
85 Healing
75 Chivalry

With a melee skill instead of a ranged skill, you do have to drop Resist to make it work.

Oh, and don't forget to use a 2-handed weapon or you will lose most of the benefit of parry/bushido.

 

[Caelas]

Thanks...I look at the 120 skills and realize...I need more gold...

 

[Skelf]

[QUOTE
Heavy Crossbow Damage:

125 Strength, 0 Anatomy, 0 Tactics, 0 DI: 34 100 DI: 58
125 Strength, 100 Anatomy, 0 Tactics, 0 DI: 47 100 DI: 71
125 Strength, 0 Anatomy, 100 Tactics, 0 DI: 51 100 DI: 75
125 Strength, 100 Anatomy, 100 Tactics, 0 DI: 64 100 DI: 88
125 Strength, 100 Anatomy, 115 Tactics, 0 DI: 66 100 DI: 90

[/QUOTE]

Nice tight numbers....and they do make a good case for trimming Tactics to 100. Possibly Conner is underestimating the impact relative playing skill is having on his character's performance..;p

Can I ask if these numbers were calculated from known and previously validated formulae or were they the result of in-game testing? I suspect the former? I have been out of UO for many years and only came back about a year or so ago. Could well have missed what is now common knowledge.

If these formulae have been confimed to actually reflect in-game performance, it would also be good to calculate how skill levels of 90 compare to 100.

Cheers

 

[Setnaffa]

Can I ask if these numbers were calculated from known and previously validated formulae or were they the result of in-game testing? I suspect the former? I have been out of UO for many years and only came back about a year or so ago. Could well have missed what is now common knowledge.

If these formulae have been confimed to actually reflect in-game performance, it would also be good to calculate how skill levels of 90 compare to 100.

Cheers

These are based on known and published formulae.

If you have Microsoft Excel, check out this calculator.

 

[Farsight]

In addition, years of "testing" confirms these values.

Bearing in mind that most of your opponents have extremely high resists, the end result of those calculations varies even less. Against a 70 resist creature (or player), you won't even see the difference between 100 and 115 in tactics or anatomy unless the lightning strike critically hits (and then only in PvM. in PvP, it will stay 35 even if you have 90 tactics and no anatomy).

Anyhow, go play with Setnaffa's calculator. It's really a good tool to have if the numbers are important to you.

 

[Connor_Graham]

the difference between 100 and 115 in tactics or anatomy unless the lightning strike critically hits (and then only in PvM. in PvP, it will stay 35 even if you have 90 tactics and no anatomy).

This is exactly why I have 115 Tactics. The increase in damage to a critical strike is big. The entire reason to have Bushido at 120 is to maximize the hit chance of those crits, which you do by having the increased damage from Tactics available to do. I regularly cap out on damage, until one of those crits goes off.