red dragonscale for sampires

[[JD]]

k, so i'm still working on my suit here and i'm sizing up NON-runic red dragonscale. before my buddy quit he made me some nice non runic arms. i dont have a smith of my own to create runic ones, so i'm considering if these are worth putting in my template.

at first non-runic red dragonscale looked to be a viable option but then i thought about it a little more:

lets say I craft the PERFECT red dragonscale armor, something like:
6-20-0-8-8
Ok I imbue cold to 18, so now i'm 6-20-18-8-8.
I'm at 60 resist points using only one imbue.

Now lets say I create an ideal barbed piece:
10-4-10-11-12
imbue Fire to 19...
10-19-10-11-12

that's 62 pts of resist for only one imbue, and it's mediable armor

so really the only bonus to non-runic dragonscale is that you can have 20 instead of 19 fire? but for that you lose mediable armor, and don't have as many resist points as barbed (62) or horned (61)?

is this right? because it doesn't seem worth it.

runic dragonscale, with 25-30 fire, does seem worth it - can add a piece or two to the suit and easily bump fire to 95.

yes this is kind of a crafting post, but you guys understand the application and may be able to offer info the average crafter might not be able to. thanks in advance for thoughts..

 

[Death Adder]

Your numbers are slightly off as the minimum fire on an unimbued barbed piece is 5 (4 base, 1 barbed). So the tradeoff is only 1 point of resist and lack of med in exchange for the ability to get your fire resist considerably higher (as you can easily get over 20 fire on a dragon piece). Dragon armor also looks cool as hell. I could see someone running a vamp template opting for the dragonscale, depending on the setup.

 

[[JD]]

Well to my knowledge the non runic dragonscale fire resist maxes out at 20 (I've heard someone say they think it might be 21)... so the significantly higher part is debateable, considering barbed goes to 19...

The runic dragonscale however seems to be the bomb, in that I've seen people post they have made pieces with 25-33 fire.

Ugh it's looking like I'm going to have to skill up a miner and smith to make runic red dragonscale to do my sampire suit right. :<

 

[Death Adder]

I've made lots of pieces and they regularly go over 20. You can get up to 23 on rare occasions and up to 24 on EXTREMELY rare occasions. All you need to get 24 is for 11 of the exceptional points to go to fire, which is rare but not impossible.

 

[[JD]]

so max on NON RUNIC piece is 23/24? ok then. thats probably worth it. ill have to skill up a smith to be able to make so many pieces tho. bummer. lol! thank you

 

[Death Adder]

Well, I have a few million iron ingots for sale on Chessy if you need them

 

[Garm The Green]

so max on NON RUNIC piece is 23/24? ok then. thats probably worth it. ill have to skill up a smith to be able to make so many pieces tho. bummer. lol! thank you

Dude it's a PITA getting the scales. All in all, you might as well go with bloodwood from what i've heard, only prob is the HP regen....

 

[Death Adder]

Free HPR is a problem?

 

[Yen Sid]

Free HPR is a problem?

Not free, it takes an imbuing slot. Unless you enhance that is, and then you might as well make it heartwood for better properties .

 

[Thunderz]

TBH i wouldnt even bother with dragon scale armour.

Check out my suite on may threads.

its easy enought to hit max EVERYTHING" For far less than making DCA will be.

Even Minor has a chest made the same way.

Thunderz

 

[[JD]]

cant wear wood so dont have that option.
dont want to rely on a faction earring that might not be available after faction changes either

 

[Death Adder]

Not free, it takes an imbuing slot. Unless you enhance that is, and then you might as well make it heartwood for better properties .

But you can't go over 18 Fire unless you imbue before enhancing, in which case the HPR is free. I actually prefer BW to HW because it's fairly easy to hit the caps on HCI and DI but impossible to cap HPR on a suit that also caps HCI/DCI/DI/LMC/MR/HP/Stam/EP. My PvP suit is pretty much maxed out and I was only able to fit in 14 HPR even using Bloodwood (I do have one HW piece to cap my HCI but I did put HPR2 on it as well), though I also got 10 All Damage Eater in there, which is kind of a variable HPR.

Edit: I meant you can only go up to 18 Fire if you imbue Fire on a pre-made BW piece. If you don't imbue Fire and just try to get it as high as possible with the base, BW and exceptional bonus resist points you can hit 20 or so.

 

[Thunderz]

cant wear wood so dont have that option.
dont want to rely on a faction earring that might not be available after faction changes either

good point.

Would you concider converting to elf? I find it much more playable than a human.

Ok JOAT is nice to have, but in big boss fights (which is what us sampires are bult for) i find it worthless compaired to having night sight/5 more energy resist/20 more mana (and anything else i forgot)/and free earing slot when they create a new earing item (wishes as my slot is free )

Thunderz

 

[Nyses]

k, so i'm still working on my suit here and i'm sizing up NON-runic red dragonscale. before my buddy quit he made me some nice non runic arms. i dont have a smith of my own to create runic ones, so i'm considering if these are worth putting in my template.

at first non-runic red dragonscale looked to be a viable option but then i thought about it a little more:

lets say I craft the PERFECT red dragonscale armor, something like:
6-20-0-8-8
Ok I imbue cold to 18, so now i'm 6-20-18-8-8.
I'm at 60 resist points using only one imbue.

Now lets say I create an ideal barbed piece:
10-4-10-11-12
imbue Fire to 19...
10-19-10-11-12

that's 62 pts of resist for only one imbue, and it's mediable armor

so really the only bonus to non-runic dragonscale is that you can have 20 instead of 19 fire? but for that you lose mediable armor, and don't have as many resist points as barbed (62) or horned (61)?

is this right? because it doesn't seem worth it.

runic dragonscale, with 25-30 fire, does seem worth it - can add a piece or two to the suit and easily bump fire to 95.

yes this is kind of a crafting post, but you guys understand the application and may be able to offer info the average crafter might not be able to. thanks in advance for thoughts..

Hey JD, re-reading your post, I wanted to clarify something about Dragon Scale.

The reason I chose to go with it, was not that it was going to be the best possible suit you could get, but instead, It was an extreemly cheap suit to build, and replace often if you want, but was still a very very good suit.

I have not looked at every suit combination possible, so I do not know what the best possible suit in the game is, for certain.

The last suit I posted only used: 20 relic frags, 50 Chaga Mushrooms, 50 bora pelts and 30 Luminasant Fungi. All the rest is gems and residue or enhanced essence.

Suit Stats: 70/95/61/66/61, 720 Luck*, HPR 4*, MR 2, HPI 25, Stam Inc. 21, Mana Inc 26, 3SDI, 36 LMC*, 40 HCI*, 35 DCI, 5 SSI*, 70 Damage inc*, 30 Hit Lower D. * = includes, sandals, cloak, and talisman.

And Like I said, I could have forgone the luck and added 5 additional properties to the suit (only the headgear was not imbued), easily getting all 70's and adding a couple other mods. Also, I did not use a runic hammer to craft any of the pieces, so for the 5 pieces, I had 5 mods I could add to each and I started a 0/500 weight.

Call it a "best bang for your buck !!" Sammy Suit. Cheap to make and easy to replace. Just need a lot of Scales, 2000 or so is usually good.

 

[Garm The Green]

Hey JD, re-reading your post, I wanted to clarify something about Dragon Scale.

The reason I chose to go with it, was not that it was going to be the best possible suit you could get, but instead, It was an extreemly cheap suit to build, and replace often if you want, but was still a very very good suit.

I have not looked at every suit combination possible, so I do not know what the best possible suit in the game is, for certain.

The last suit I posted only used: 20 relic frags, 50 Chaga Mushrooms, 50 bora pelts and 30 Luminasant Fungi. All the rest is gems and residue or enhanced essence.

Suit Stats: 70/95/61/66/61, 720 Luck*, HPR 4*, MR 2, HPI 25, Stam Inc. 21, Mana Inc 26, 3SDI, 36 LMC*, 40 HCI*, 35 DCI, 5 SSI*, 70 Damage inc*, 30 Hit Lower D. * = includes, sandals, cloak, and talisman.

And Like I said, I could have forgone the luck and added 5 additional properties to the suit (only the headgear was not imbued), easily getting all 70's and adding a couple other mods. Also, I did not use a runic hammer to craft any of the pieces, so for the 5 pieces, I had 5 mods I could add to each and I started a 0/500 weight.

Call it a "best bang for your buck !!" Sammy Suit. Cheap to make and easy to replace. Just need a lot of Scales, 2000 or so is usually good.

Dude i'd been making red scale pieces too as an experiment, but finding it hard to farm them. only seem to get red off 25% of drags and greater drags. get 14 each time in fell, average of 3.25 scales per drag, so i need to kill about 750-800 to have enough for a suit?

can you recomend a more reliable source?

Cheers,

Garm.



edit - just farmed another 400 scales. made some gloves and sleeves and i can't see how you get near 70/95/70/70/70 if using rbc/fey/M&S, even using and imbue "slot" to add another 18 to a low dragon resist.... how do you put ur suit together dude??

Sorry I have a120 smith, but dont use him much for anything other than weapons - im a fish out of water here...

 

[Nyses]

Dude i'd been making red scale pieces too as an experiment, but finding it hard to farm them. only seem to get red off 25% of drags and greater drags. get 14 each time in fell, average of 3.25 scales per drag, so i need to kill about 750-800 to have enough for a suit?

can you recomend a more reliable source?

Cheers,

Garm.



edit - just farmed another 400 scales. made some gloves and sleeves and i can't see how you get near 70/95/70/70/70 if using rbc/fey/M&S, even using and imbue "slot" to add another 18 to a low dragon resist.... how do you put ur suit together dude??

Sorry I have a120 smith, but dont use him much for anything other than weapons - im a fish out of water here...

Hey Garm, My suit above only uses the M&S, the other 5 slots are imbued, and I chose to go with Valorite for the gorget, so 4 Dragon Scale pieces. In theory, if I got 20 natural fire on those 4 pieces and 10 on the M&S, there is 90 right there, only need 5 on your gorget.

As for getting red scales, you should notice only the Red Dragons, Drakes and GDs give red scales, the Brown ones give yellow scales. As for the Best way, take a Human to Fel with a Harvesters Blade. Your Sammy should do just fine, if Human. Archers are fast too. Don't forget Rikki, 40 of each scale in Fel and 20 on Tram.

Back to the Fire on the suit, You could get to 95 pretty easily with the M&S and the human Fey legs (9 fire I believe), 3 Dragon pieces at 20 + M&S + Human Fey legs should be 79, so only 16 on the gorget and you are at 95. The RBC would take a bit more work.

 

[Obsidian]

I built one of my sampire's suits with Red Dragonscale gloves. I hit 21 fire using just an arms lore bonus. I ended up with the piece looking like this:

17/21/18/17/17
8 Stamina Increase

It's 91 total resists. Now I realized later that I could build a better complete suit by imbuing only one resist (max 2) and adding 3 or 4 additional mods on barbed leather armor. Even resist pieces work much better for me. I try to go with 6 pieces with 62-65 resists each that have a combo of stamina increase, LMC, hp increase, and/or mana increase.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[Garm The Green]

Hey Garm, My suit above only uses the M&S, the other 5 slots are imbued, and I chose to go with Valorite for the gorget, so 4 Dragon Scale pieces. In theory, if I got 20 natural fire on those 4 pieces and 10 on the M&S, there is 90 right there, only need 5 on your gorget.

As for getting red scales, you should notice only the Red Dragons, Drakes and GDs give red scales, the Brown ones give yellow scales. As for the Best way, take a Human to Fel with a Harvesters Blade. Your Sammy should do just fine, if Human. Archers are fast too. Don't forget Rikki, 40 of each scale in Fel and 20 on Tram.

Back to the Fire on the suit, You could get to 95 pretty easily with the M&S and the human Fey legs (9 fire I believe), 3 Dragon pieces at 20 + M&S + Human Fey legs should be 79, so only 16 on the gorget and you are at 95. The RBC would take a bit more work.

i'll be honet Nyses, i am poo at crafting.

If somebody whats to make a very very very simple how to guide, it'd be sweet!

 

[[JD]]

guide to crafting dragonscale, or ?

here's a quick rundown.

base resists: 3-3-3-3-3
red ds material resists: 0-10-(-3)-0-0

add them together: 3-13-0-3-3

if you have GM arms lore, 20 resists can be distributed amongst your totals. lets say 5 each to phys, fire, poi, energy: 8-18-0-8-8

you actually want a resist to get "skipped" or not get any gm arms lore pts on it. in this case, cold got nothing from the gm arms lore bonus. great. now you can imbue it up to 18. if instead it had received points, they would be wasted. ie, take physical resist at 8. ok well you can imbue phys to 17. so is it better to imbue 8 to 17 and gain 9 measely resist points, or cold from 0 to 18 and gain 18 resist points? this is why when you are imbuing resists you look for one which received no or barely any arms lore bonus. ok, so we have decided to imbue cold to 18.

completed armor: 8-18-18-8-8
ok and you have 4 slots free to imbue sta increase, mana increase, lmc, and hp increase

 

[Garm The Green]

heya dude, cheers for reply.
On my semi-main sammy i did a cheapy suit (returning player) with RBC/Fey legs/M&S. that left arms, gloves and gorget.

Using runic pieces of red dragonscale it was easy to max out fire without using a ring/jewel slot for a resist. thats the only benefit i see.

I thought loosing medable armour was going to be be a bad thing, but having become an elf, it doesnt matter either way. With 40 LMC and the RBC and good leeching, I'm laughing.

Might try wood on my other SS sammy...


what are your plans at the mo dude? have you ditched that totem yet?

 

[[JD]]

totem?

 

[Garm The Green]

spirit of the totem

 

[[JD]]

oh haha. well in my build its set to go away. main reason was not to gain HLD (though that will be nice). main reason is that the resists on the spirit of totem suck so BAD. and the faction ones change. so if i lose faction totem, resistwise, it borks my suit. however, faction mace & shield have same resists as nonfaction so its a nonissue- wont have to redo my suit resists when faction changes come...

but i have not yet been able to make the appropriate red dragonscale armor so i can begin to imbue the suit. at 109 smithing, out of 400 scales, i only got one exceptional dragonscale piece which had high fire (26). and from what i understand, it can actually have up to 33-35ish so 26 is WAY low, I am going to keep trying.

but it takes a ton of scales per piece, plus failures, non exceptional pieces, and bad resist rolls. i have 1300 more thanks to a friends donation so i am gonna keep working smith to legendary, hopefully there will be less loss and more powerful ones.

using dc runic hammer for this - maybe i need to use a different hammer to get higher fire??

for those who have 30-35 fire resist runic dragonscale armor, what hammer did you use?

thanks

 

[Thunderz]

at 109 smithing,

PAY A COUPLE OF MILL AND GET A +60 ANCIENT SMITHS HAMMER AND EQUIP IT WHILE USING ANY OTHER HAMMER IN YOUR PACK THEN YOU WILL BE AT 159 SMITHING AND SHOULDNT FAIL OR GET NON EXCEPTIONAL

Thunderz

EDIT** Oops caps

 

[Garm The Green]

yeah what thunderz said - except you would even need +60, +30 should be fine!

And which hammer?

Dull copper is the way to go for SSI mod on weaps, but for armour?

It really depends...
the better the hammer the more mods/higher intensity, the less you can imbue... but the higher fire might be. I can't really answer that as i have Leg smith, but only 60 imbue and have no experience there... sorry buddy.

By the way, hold the +15/30/60 hammer (like u were going to use it as a weapon) and then double click the runic hammer in your backpack, this way you will experience benefits from both...

 

[[JD]]

Did not know that about the ancient hammers - thanks guys.

Question- can gargoyles equip them? Do they wear down?

Lastly, for those who have made 30+ fire resist red dragonscale pieces, what hammer did you use?

Thanks

 

[Thunderz]

Did not know that about the ancient hammers - thanks guys.

Question- can gargoyles equip them? Do they wear down?

Lastly, for those who have made 30+ fire resist red dragonscale pieces, what hammer did you use?

Thanks

If you cant wear them then they are convertable as i see a garg on atlantic all the time with a +60 in his hand.

Just use a normal hammer or tongs as you dont want a hammer to add mods, you want to imbue them yourself after hitting the high fire resist.

You can always enhance after you imbue [check out uoguide for what metals will add what to the item].
iv made lots of iron gloves, imbued them and then enhanced with metal to get what i needed on them.

At the end if the day though, WOOD is way better than leather or metal as there is better +resists/Mods and the chance at mods you cant get on leather or metal i.e. HCI/DI/MA....

Thunderz

 

[[JD]]

i know i know.. THUNDERZ is on a mission to recruit me to team smurf! im not having it... yet buddy! ;D

so does anyone know what runic hammer i need to get the 30+ fire resist on exceptional red dragonscale.. went through 400 scales, highest i got was only 26 fire resist.

 

[[JD]]

ok so out of literally 1700 red dragon scales these are the BEST sleeves i was able to smith.

exceptional
phys 4
fire 29
poison 7
energy 5
dur 90

NOTICE no cold. i am assuming that means cold 0%? which should be a good thing... i can imbue cold 18 on these.

i am confused as hell how people are getting "33-35 fire". 29 was the highest I saw, using ancient hammer +30, DC, bronze, shadow runic hammers, 111 smithing...

anyone care to explain where i f'd up... or did a good job on these?

im 'bout ready to punch myself in the mellonballs, so someone - kindly reply

thanks

 

[Garm The Green]

yeah u need to use a runic hammer.

Yes it will take up an "imbuing slot" but that's the price of having such high fire, freeing youself for other arties etc, and allowing a cheap suit.

i dunno which hammer dude, sorry i can't remember. crack out a bronze once you'v done some bods and you'll be fine i'm sure, but also loose a hella a lot of slots. in theory you want all the mods to go to fire only and the excp bonus resists....so dull/shadow shud be ok??

 

[[JD]]

basically those 29 fire resist arms, i made it by equipping +30 ancient hammer, use my blacksmith talisman, used either a dull copper, shadow, or bronze runic hammer purchased in luna. cranked out a bunch last night and out of 1300 scales that was the best i got. its not bad at all, lots of points went to fire. and cold is low, so i can imbue cold. but i was just hoping to break the 30+ fire barrier.

 

[Garm The Green]

basically those 29 fire resist arms, i made it by equipping +30 ancient hammer, use my blacksmith talisman, used either a dull copper, shadow, or bronze runic hammer purchased in luna. cranked out a bunch last night and out of 1300 scales that was the best i got. its not bad at all, lots of points went to fire. and cold is low, so i can imbue cold. but i was just hoping to break the 30+ fire barrier.

I only used about 600 scales, but didnt break 30 - but then i didnt need to either...

sorry buddy!

 

[Thunderz]

Does armslore make a different to resists when makiing things?

Thunderz

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Does armslore make a different to resists when makiing things?

Thunderz

Yes.

 

[[JD]]

yes- if you read my bit about how to make it above, gm arms lore gives 20 resist points which are distributed among the resists. so you want to get lucky and have as much of them as possible go into fire. on top of the runic bonus. basara is doing a good job explaining in the crafting board but i still have a lot of questions.

right now im just wondering if i should roll with that 29 fire piece and imbue it or if i should keep trying for something better.

 

[Thunderz]

I just went on test and burned 5000 scales with a aggy hammer and a val hammer and the best i got was 30 and a few 29s, so id roll with what you'v got at it seems "very" rare to hit over 30.

Thunderz

 

[[JD]]

Wow what a good idea! I should have thought of that. I probably blew way more scales than I needed to, thinking that I'd be able to get even higher fire. If 30+ fire is that rare then I have a very nice piece.

I need to redo my template to see if one red dragonscale item is enough to get the fire resist I need, or if I need to go with 2 of em.

 

[[JD]]

(repost from crafting post)

ok the puzzle pieces are starting to fit together better now, but i still dont have a completed picture

i went on test and tested using dc, copper, shadow, and verite runic hammers

using verite runic hammer and 1000 red dragon scales i was able to get 2 pieces of 32 fire resist red dragon armor.

using shadow and around 1200 scales i got 1 piece of 32 fire resist dragon armor.

using 5000+ dull copper i never exceeded 29 fire resist. thunderz also performed a similar test and also never got above 29 on dull copper.

i tested using copper hammer and 1000ish scales and oddly enough did not get any higher than 29 either.

so if the way it works is that the gm arms lore resist pts, plus the runic bonuses are all focused on fire, bad RNG rolls are probably responsible for no higher than 29 being on the copper runic hammer.

yet - the dull copper hammer says it can have 1 or 2 mods..... more RNG badness? so bad that out of 10,000 scales we didn't get a single one? given that shadow runics are around the same price.... i'd go shadow over dull copper trying to craft these.

also, what struck me as most odd are the #s i'm seeing. i only got 29 or 32 fire resist. never a 30, 31, or higher than 32.

also another drawback, although fire is only one mod, 29 fire might take up a ton of intensity. im going to have to make sure i can fit the mods i want on my fire piece!

 

[Thunderz]

using 5000+ dull copper i never exceeded 29 fire resist. thunderz also performed a similar test and also never got above 29 on dull copper.

yet - the dull copper hammer says it can have 1 or 2 mods..... more RNG badness? so bad that out of 10,000 scales we didn't get a single one? given that shadow runics are around the same price.... i'd go shadow over dull copper trying to craft these.

Dont forget about how much intensity each hammer offers, i dont know how many points in resist are what intesity (i.e if max amount of resists the runic can add is say 10 then you would need to hit 100% into fire to get the whole 10).
That could be why you didnt hit it with a shadow hammer as its intesisty is 45% -100% so it would be rare to hit 100% but the minumum would be like 4.5 points in fire resist (if it was 10 a runic could add but i dont know the numbers), where as with a verite you'd get between 8.5 and 10 points.

Only problem with using the higher hammers to have more chance at getting the 100% in fire is all the other junk the hammer would add making them no longer imbuable.

From what i found on test a piece with 29 FR weighed in at 173/500 and a piece with 30 FR weighed in at 180/500 when imbuing. Not leaving much left for your 4 other mods.

Thunderz