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read with Awe!

Nukeworker

Seasoned Veteran
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I just read with awe the Post from Ford Taunus about the modern sampire! Well I am basically still "running" a Sampire with 120 swords, 120 bushi 120 magic resist, 100 tac 101 chiv 99 necro and 60 parry with max dcii ssie and hci (None of them overcapped)
And HPI at 150 with 175 stam and 100ish mana (depending on my mastery?
My qeustion is quite Basic why have life leech on a weopon with vampiric embrace? I actually though they dont "stack"?
 

Akiho

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
The heal effects do stack but in essence they are individual leeches. VE will always leech for 20% of whatever damage you do, Life leech on weapon is a chance to leech a percentage of your damage.
Even at 100% Life leech on weapon, the check may be done every swing but may still leech for 0 health.

In my opinion Life leech on a weapon is a very personal preference, I personally have never found I needed it.

A sampire is a sampire as the name suggests, Bushido being the 'Sam'urai part and VE being the Vam'pire' part. How you work other skills in is again down to preference and how you like to play.
 

ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
Perhap's we should take a look at this question with a mathmatical point of view.

Let's see,20% life leech from vamp form based on your damage.
So let's say we did 150 point of damage,you get 30 hp back,depending on what type of monster's you fight,I.E macer captain from blackthorn dungeon or if you like to pull 50 monster's at a time while doing champ spawn's.
The damage is alway's most certain to be more than 30 hp from each hit(from a heavey hitting monster,or from multiple monster's)

So factoring in all the varible's do you think leaching 30hp back from one hit is enough? probably not,that's why people add in life leech,for extra surviveabilty.
 
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Ford Taunus

Sage
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I just read with awe the Post from Ford Taunus about the modern sampire! Well I am basically still "running" a Sampire with 120 swords, 120 bushi 120 magic resist, 100 tac 101 chiv 99 necro and 60 parry with max dcii ssie and hci (None of them overcapped)
And HPI at 150 with 175 stam and 100ish mana (depending on my mastery?
My qeustion is quite Basic why have life leech on a weopon with vampiric embrace? I actually though they dont "stack"?
Yeh. Depend on what content you make.
There is also an interesting "Dragoon build" that does not use necromancy all but only leeches.. and it works also great on many situations.

As a rule, I can say:
* Yes as long as you can go (reasonable) without HLL on weapon go and take better property.
* As long as you can go (reasonable) without RS and take anything another for those 120 skills points

But "Modern sampire" is high-end content template.. and I bet all life leech is needed in most of the high-end situations :)
 
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ysolt

Seasoned Veteran
I just read with awe the Post from Ford Taunus about the modern sampire! Well I am basically still "running" a Sampire with 120 swords, 120 bushi 120 magic resist, 100 tac 101 chiv 99 necro and 60 parry with max dcii ssie and hci (None of them overcapped)
And HPI at 150 with 175 stam and 100ish mana (depending on my mastery?
My qeustion is quite Basic why have life leech on a weopon with vampiric embrace? I actually though they dont "stack"?
Just by looking at your template,with only 100 tactic's and no anatomy,by having life leech from vamp form and on your weapon will for sure let you survive much better.
 

Ford Taunus

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So if you do just champion spawns and minor stuff:
* Build without Necromancy works totally (Weapon leech only)
* Build without leech weapon works totally (Necromancy leech only)
 

Akiho

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
So factoring in all the varible's do you think leaching 30hp back from one hit is enough? probably not,that's why people add in life leech,for extra surviveabilty.
Absolutely, and that's when you might take a different approach and there are many ways to skin a cat. Life leech on weapon is one way, I personally find it too unreliable and use other mods. Keep in mind the math for Life Leech on Weapon, after the math it heals from 0-XX hitpoints (Welcome to the RNG train) so for example you could have:

1st hit - 22 hit points recovered
2nd hit - 0 points
3rd hit - 3 points
4th hit - 0 points
5th hit - 9 points etc.

And yes, it can be that unreliable.

In many cases It can be as simple as switching to a feint weapon on 'harder hitting' mobs to halve the incoming damage. Other times you can just rely on good ol defensive abilities to ensure you are not being hit every single swing making it easy to keep your health topped up.

Life Leech is an option, just not critical.
 

Ford Taunus

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Life Leech is an option, just not critical.
Indeed.... It depends a lot on play style.
Just for curious what weapon you use for "feint" and against what boss?

I have used feint only against Slasher Of Veils and Putrifier... But found out that "double leech" with double axe totally is a lot better on those situations.
Leaf blade and daesho are too low on damage against bosses IMO. I have also tried "weapon swapping" every 8 sec for feint weapon. But it comes only mess.. only good "in theory".

But jeh. Just hit me with weapon and boss.. and I sure test.
 

Akiho

Seasoned Veteran
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UNLEASHED
Indeed.... It depends a lot on play style.
Just for curious what weapon you use for "feint" and against what boss?

I have used feint only against Slasher Of Veils and Putrifier... But found out that "double leech" with double axe totally is a lot better on those situations.
Leaf blade and daesho are too low on damage against bosses IMO. I have also tried "weapon swapping" every 8 sec for feint weapon. But it comes only mess.. only good "in theory".

But jeh. Just hit me with weapon and boss.. and I sure test.
I used to use Feint (Daisho) quite a lot when my gear was not so good, additional to Slasher and Putrifier it also helped on others like Rikktor, dragon turtle and the GD in Shadowguard.
But like you, these days I generally just run with Double/Two-Handed axe for DS and Bladed staff for AI, VE has not failed me yet. The abundance of legendary gear helps massively these days.
In most cases I reforge my weapons for Hit Fatigue or Mana drain but that is my preference.

The only time I run into problems is with targets that are just too hard to hit and you miss 90% of your swings in which case you need another source of healing or bring a bard (Ozzy/Anon for example)

The most commonly done 'encounters' these days are as far as I'm aware are Exodus and the Roof and although both are possible to solo, it's just not worth the time or effort, better done with friends or dual client if you have that option and then healing is a moot point because your buddies will/should keep you alive.
 

Ford Taunus

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Yeh. Now it makes sense. I thought you still use feint on boss fight :)
 

Innoxicated

Journeyman
I am distressingly behind on the makings of a modern sampire. I took it as my ultimate quest before my last (long) break from uo to make a reforged, refined plate suit for my vampire then, and now he is quite obsolete. He still has 120 parry for Christ's sake, lol...

I'd take from this very informative thread that if your gear isn't top tier (210 stam/eaters/extra regens), or if you can't get a 120 tactics scroll, HLL may be the increase in survivability you're needing. If you have no problems keeping your hits quick, or are doing optimal damage and have no problems with VE keeping your hps up, you're able enjoy a more powerful mod on your weapon.

I know parry/resist/weapon choice is up to preferences, but I do have a couple questions I'm sure there is a common answer to:

1. how much do you feel that eaters contribute to your survivability?

It seems like general eater is fairly easy to cap, but specific eaters are hard to find on good pieces without costing a fortune. Do you rely on them for top/high end content?

2. how big a part do refinements play in your damage mitigation?

I've noticed the trend has become trying to reduce damage over relying on % to deflect, with the lowering of points spent on parry, and leeching through incoming damage. I can see where that would be more reliable and less subject to bad rolls. Resist over dci refinements seem like a natural fit, or are they more suited towards pvp equipment for caster vs dexer, and vice versa?

Thanks for any information, explanations and exceptions are more than welcome!
 
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Ford Taunus

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1. how much do you feel that eaters contribute to your survivability?
Eaters sounds actually much better than they really are. PVP they are sure good.
From internet "Eaters are charged over time provided you don't get damaged during that time. Damage Eater properties have a capacity to store up to 20 healing charges and convert charges every three seconds from the last time damage was received before they stop converting damage."
So they are a nice bonus. But in long fights (as boss fights and champion spawns) they help just a couple of first minutes.
As a general rule: These are more important than eaters (in PVM): Stamina, HPI, STR, DEX, INT, Mana, LMC, HCI, DCI, SSI, DI

2. how big a part do refinements play in your damage mitigation?
Refinements are indeed important. But you need to build your suit and character just right to get full benefits.
Some points (I explain more if needed)
* Hight refinement and "high as possible parry" is a good combination
* High bushido and high parry is a good combination (Look "Evansion" and "Confidence" spells at Bushido)
* If your build is parry and refinements based you can go as low as 20 with DCI. (DCI test comes before parry test, so "Evansion" and "Confidence" works better with low DCI and high parry). But do not get DCI to go under 20 because you get only refinements benefits from 45 -> 20.

If you will do really high-end monsters. There is a lot "Not commonly known information"
You need even information about GM Bushido/tactics/anatomy benefits.
Also more information about "drain attacks" etc.
For example:
"Stamina drain" do lot more than just drops monster stamina in PVM... and people usually know only that stamina --> Swing speed part of story
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
I am distressingly behind on the makings of a modern sampire. I took it as my ultimate quest before my last (long) break from uo to make a reforged, refined plate suit for my vampire then, and now he is quite obsolete. He still has 120 party for Christ's sake, lol...

I'd take from this very informative thread that if your gear isn't top tier (210 stam/eaters/extra regens), or if you can't get a 120 tactics scroll, HLL may be the increase in survivability you're needing. If you have no problems keeping your hits quick, or are doing optimal damage and have no problems with VE keeping your hps up, you're able enjoy a more powerful mod on your weapon.

I know parry/resist/weapon choice is up to preferences, but I do have a couple questions I'm sure there is a common answer to:

1. how much do you feel that eaters contribute to your survivability?

It seems like general eater is fairly easy to cap, but specific eaters are hard to find on good pieces without costing a fortune. Do you rely on them for top/high end content?

2. how big a part do refinements play in your damage mitigation?

I've noticed the trend has become trying to reduce damage over relying on % to deflect, with the lowering of points spent on parry, and leeching through incoming damage. I can see where that would be more reliable and less subject to bad rolls. Resist over dci refinements seem like a natural fit, or are they more suited towards pvp equipment for caster vs dexerdexer, and vice versa?

Thanks for any information, explanations and exceptions are more than welcome!
Eaters can be great, assuming they trigger off the high damage like a breath attack, rather than a stray magic arrow.

Refinements can be a plus. Most people refine for resists.

However, like most things they are entirely optional, as hardly any of the content has changed significantly since inception it's not really worth worrying about. If your sampire worked before chances are it still works now. It's the players that are rusty when they come back not the armour.
 

Innoxicated

Journeyman
Well hell, that's awesome! It never occurred to me to intentionally lower dci to below 45 to "buff" the benefits of using those bushido skills when your template includes high parry, while also gaining the benefits of the improved resists. I was about to have a go at regurgitating that 120 parry as a slimy, drippy gift for my tamer, rofl...

I'm getting the rust worked back out of these guys. It's coming along alright, but there's still a squeak here and there. Thanks you two for your valuable insight, and most of all the invaluable encouragement!!
 

swroberts

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I have been a sampire so long, dropping dci to 20 feels wrong on a primal level....

I see and hear it... Just cant bring myself to execute a change ..
 

Finley Grant

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
I have been a sampire so long, dropping dci to 20 feels wrong on a primal level....

I see and hear it... Just cant bring myself to execute a change ..
The higher resist lower the damage u get..
And as Taunus said the dci check is first After that the skills kick in
 

Arcades

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Can you elaborate a little more on why you like Hit Fatigue & Hit Mana Drain on your weapons? I've not really familiar with the newer effects...but love the theorycrafting in UO, thanks!
 

Akiho

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Can you elaborate a little more on why you like Hit Fatigue & Hit Mana Drain on your weapons? I've not really familiar with the newer effects...but love the theorycrafting in UO, thanks!
For me it is situational, the best 2 examples I could give would be as follows.

I use Hit Fatigue on a bladed staff for Rikktor. No matter how you look at it, he hits hard and fast and can easily put you on the backfoot if you miss a swing or two. Get his stamina to zero and his attacks grind to an almost halt making him like putty in your hands as his prime attack is melee.

Hit Mana Drain I use for the Shadowlords as they cast big hitters like there is no tomorrow which means you have to be 101% focused just to stay alive. Getting their mana to zero as quickly as possible and keeping it low gives you a lot of room to breath as they will get very few chances to cast/chain big hitting spells.

Again, It is all down to preference, play style and whether you have the space to put alternate mods on your weapons.
 

Arcades

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Awesome info. Maybe if I made an alternate weapon with each of those properties for Rikky & Shadowlords to leech away their Stam/Mana before using my main weapon would work.
 
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