[Discussion] Rares&Larger Gold Transaction Sections Need Real Modertaion

[Deaol]

As of late a lot of people have been high tailing the UO scene, thus creating some very sizable transactions. (billions and billions)

It appears a new era of scammers has emerged on various shards not claiming knowledge of reputable broker sources and denying any understanding of proper trade.

Another plague we are facing is MODS on this forum allowing known scum to continue trading. It is very disheartening to see, what i thought were decent people, supporting these people and vouching their good interest.

A revolution needs to take place, I for one could give two ****s, but someone should step up and cleanse these forums of these people. Countless threads have been made... stock piles of evidence has come forth. I will not start naming names.. but its ****ing obvious.

Are you all that stunned?

 

[Lord Nabin]

Friend,

We do need to abide by the rules of the forums as well as the Mods whom I think do an excellent job.

That being said we all have a very good system of communication and there is always a fair post around. Known Scammer this is the situation ICQ me for the Details.

Heck put it in your status.

In addition. Uoforums which we are all aware of here is the link

http://www.uoforums.com/report-scammer/

Follow the rules for posting and it is simple. This is an excellent resource for us all and removes a lot of frustration.

There have been many times that I have simply posted on a thread of a known scammer.


"Please contact me regarding this seller before buying" If you have an opinion or an experience its a fair game post.

We don't need drama but operating within the rules is very effective at the same time for the community.

 

[Deaol]

Nabin, your statement is very true and a great guideline for those who are entering the rares market or high yield trade market.

BUT... what is happening and what is not happening to prevent illusive activity within these forums:

- Mods deleting threads, posts and evidence about forum members or from forum members who HAVE and continue to SCAM and Exploit the system
- Dismissal of hard evidence, proven fact and countless reports of certain users
- Ignoring the obvious (players and admin/mods and game developer personnel)

Its simple.. if you operate a process which allows input and output you are accountable for the activities within. STRATICS and the mods just delete on will.

Its pathetic.

 

[Lord Nabin]

Its the guide line friend. Uoforums has chosen to see it a different way. Which is fine.

Post your evidence over there. Leverage their Rating system they have in place for transaction feedback.

There is no problem posting here to go over there.

We all have to operate withing the boundaries provided since we choose to operate in this community.

Honestly the forum mods do not make it hard for us to operate around the system we just have to be smart about it

 

[WootSauce]

Yep.

 

[WootSauce]

The last post in that forum that you linked to was over 30 days ago?

 

[PinkPandora]

I don't speak much (except to bid sometimes) but..... for someone who reads this site ALOT; I have never heard of the link Nabin mentions above: http://www.uoforums.com/report-scammer/
We have a sticky in this forum called: Guidelines for Safer Trading. Why isn't that site posted in there? That sticky seems to be the appropriate place to put this kind of website/thread.
Please put that website in that sticky.
*crawls back into her safe zone*

 

[Promathia]

Fact: Noone I know uses UOForums.

Fact: The "Rules" of Stratics that protect people who we all know scam and do shady dealings is ridiculous. They want to spend time bickering on what kind of items are allowed here, but any mention of changing the actual rules for the better of the community is always quickly shot down.

There have been people, who have posted here MULTIPLE times, and it always leads to people getting scammed. As users who frequently use these forums, can we post in their threads about it? Can we name them? Can we say ANYTHING in their threads? No, we cant because Stratics will just delete the posts as "Personal" attacks.

 

[Lord Nabin]

Just post

"Please contact me regarding this seller

I also reccomend reading the safe trading guide lines"

I have done this several times with no issue,

Plenty of folks use uoforums. Now you have am additional resource to report scammers

 

[Promathia]

Just post

"Please contact me regarding this seller

I also reccomend reading the safe trading guide lines"

I have done this several times with no issue,

Plenty of folks use uoforums. Now you have am additional resource to report scammers

The last post in the Rares forum of UOForums is like a month old. Thats not exactly a frequent hot spot of activity.

 

[Lord Nabin]

The last post in the Rares forum of UOForums is like a month old. Thats not exactly a frequent hot spot of activity.

So post there. The point is that it is a place you can post specifics and maybe the community as a whole is not totally aware of it, but they are now.

We have to use the tools and resources that our out there to communicate with to the best of our ability.

Stratics says no personal information fine. UoForums says it's fine as long as you are in the following guidelines. Great use it.

 

[Adeka]

I also had never heard of the above mentioned site Nabin linkyed.

Here's my naive thoughts on the matter-
I want to know if the person whom I am dealing with is shifty or trustworthy. It's that simple. I have been lucky thus far and had amazing transactions and met many great people. But the time will come when I will get bamboozled, I am sure of it. As somebody who only posts here on stratics, how am I protected from "player X' if that person remains nameless and blameless? I'm not, it is only through word of mouth that I learn of the sketchy element accompanied to this hobby. That doesn't make me feel very safe.

Flip side of it is that I also think the Mods do a great job here in listening to our thoughts and concerns. They don't want legal action to come their way due to a slanderous thread and a hot headed poster. So it is truly a conundrum, isn't it?

This could truly be where a previously mentioned idea of an introduction thread plays a key role is staving off some of this nonsense. I for one know I would feel better know a little about the people I am dealing with, it helps us all to form a bond more than a silly picture of a cat attacking a car and some words on a screen. You get to know me, and vise versa. I have already stuck to the one thing that I told myself I would do when I started down this road, find good people to trust and listen to their advice. But I regress, my point is that if we all know each other and some seller comes to us with an item we want we direct them to a thread. A thread of rules and laws. Ones that state that these are the brokers we use, don't like it/ No deal. No exceptions. A kind of Stratics book of dealings directions, but one that severs many purposes. It's not just for rules, it houses a place for us to learn from each other, about each other. I went out on a limb and in doing so met Caveat, who has turned out to be one of THE nicest people I have met online or otherwise. We chat, we talk about UO and some other things, we have formed a bond in that way. He refers me to others, I meet them and the trustworthy circle grows.

I know this idea places a lot of responsibility on ourselves and the community, but aren't we worth it? If somebody wont use a broker in dealing with me, then it's no deal. If I want to know more about a person that I am dealing with in a virtual world, it sure would be nice to have a place to read up on what makes them tick. When it's all said and done, we all hope that what goes around comes around. And that every good turn deserves another. That's human nature right? Maybe what it used to be, to say that I am not completely void of any amount of detestation. We want to, I want to be safe in this area for many reasons that I don't need to spell out to any of you. It's for those who lurk, those who are committing these deeds. They are the ones who need rules set for them. Don't have a stratics reference? No deal. No ICQ number? No deal. And as stated before NO BROKER, NO DEAL!!!!!!!!!!

*Takes a deep breath, and then exhales*

 

[Apetul]

Mods arent the problem, rules are. :/
Stratics forums is a great tool for scammers. You cant say anything bad about someone else because its a personal attack, you can be ironic about how that person didnt completed the deal and still "owe" you money, or post on every thread the scammer starts and try to indirectly explain that people should be careful and always use brokers. But that is too much work and gets old.

Funny thing (no, it isnt funny but oh well) is that on december 22 / 2012, Petra Fyde started a conversation with me titled: "sorry, post removed" because I posted that this guy that play LS is a scammer and he just changed his stratics username to keep scamming other people. I cant name him, but he did scam 2 collectors on the same item (look this thread) some time ago. This guy, the scammer, isnt really smart and his new nickname was his new pvp char that he used alot, so it was really easy for LS players to know who he is. So I posted about his stratics username name change to warn others on his newly started selling thread and my post was removed.
8 days later, Of the Rings posted on Report a Scammer uoforum a conversation with the scammer because he scammed of the rings for 150m. (its the 2nd thread on that forum..)
Of course, you can blame of the rings about not being very cautious but I think its fair to say that Stratics *could* have helped the rares community with some kind of information about this guy, but didnt happen.

And let me clear about this, I'm not blaming Petra. Im blaming the rules.

 

[Ron Silverbeard]

So you want us to be the scam police....and the judge....and the executer...all together..

message understand....but impossible...some parts are done yet anyway..

 

[Petra Fyde]

The rules are the way they are for very good reasons.

It is way too easy to destroy someone's reputation by claiming they are a scammer, and something as simple as losing internet connection so being unable to complete a trade will do it.
Not to mention deliberately blackening someone's name because they have offended you in some way, or impersonating that person - as some of the reputable brokers have reason to know.

If you are scammed the way to post it is to say:

I was scammed
This is what happened (don't include enough detail to allow others to copy the scam)
If anyone wants further details contact me by pm.

Please remember that our moderators are here to moderate the forums, they can not police what happens in UO. If you believe a sale to be fraudulent then by all means let them know.
Always conduct large transactions with unknowns through a broker and the same rule applies in UO as in RL. If a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't.

Let me turn this around and ask 'Who, here, has been falsely accused of scamming?'

 

[Assia Penryn]

For those who gave us kind words, thank you. As moderators we have to follow the rules. Petra and I have had some long debates about this issue in private and I have given her many a headache over my walking the line. I do what I can within the parameters I can to help protect the community. So does Athelas. We check to make sure folks aren't bidding on their own auctions and if someone does have what appears to be a genuine complaint I will encourage them to say "contact me privately".

I spent years volunteering to track down hackers and scammers with Centurio & Co. However, I do see where Petra is coming from. In the age of technology, faking things is easy. It is incredibly easy to fake screenshots (when you don't suck at it), conversations, etc. When I did it, things were a bit more fresh on the internet and the evidence tended to be a bit more clean. Now it is basically his word against hers. With the whole Pac Rares Fest scandal... as I recall we banned those unique items to help keep them from being fenced. I'm sure they were still sold, but at least it wasn't done on the forums.

Why do you guys think I am doing my damnedest to try and build a community where folks talk to one another and do more than financial transactions. So if someone gets hurt you all will feel inclined to communicate with each other and protect each other. In the end, it isn't about smearing the name of whoever (as fun as that is), its about making sure the community is safe. We have to educate folks, not just the rares collectors. When someone asks me to broker as a neutral third party, I do it without charging and without accepting donations. Why? Because that is part of being a community. We all have to help each other and we should... not for gold, but because it makes us stronger. As fun as rares festivals are (and I do enjoy going), they focus around gold and knowledge about rares. It isn't Stratics responsibility to make us safe, it is our own. We need to suck it up, contribute and all take responsibility for that.

 

[Decadence]

We understand the he said, she said issues to posting about scammers, but there are scammers in my notes that have a mile long list of icq numbers, aliases, etc. Its the same people, over and over and I get contacted so often about the same people, and I have this list with added aliases, and I can only spread it so often before its too old to be of use... And These scammers have stolen amounts that go past petty thieving if they could onlu be prosecuted. There are other long term standing brokers and members of the community that will no doubt stand behind me on the people on my list. Something needs yo give for the all out known scammers that hit time and time again. And I guarantee that any scammer that has so many witnesses can not sue! It isn't legal libel if its true and the community will stand behind it! I know! I posted and gave people real life information on a scammer that had stolen people's money, and he threatened me with a lawsuit! I said bring it, I have yet to see hus lawyers papers, and if one day I do, I am sure this community sickened by getting thier hard earned money stolen, will be behind me in court! We need to protect eachother!

My two cents,
Deca

 

[Decadence]

Sorry for the typos, I posted from my phone

 

[Lord Nabin]

Sorry for the typos, I posted from my phone

Ciri and her auto correct are the worst! I feel your pain.