Random Resources - Working or Not?

[Woodsman]

Inspired by the unattended scripting thread. Randomization happened around 5 years ago or so - the randomized resources. A lot of people used to sell runebooks to resource locations, a lot of people could log in, do some mining or chopping and get what they needed. Now the output is not worth it for a lot of people.

I know I used to chop a lot more wood (reflected in my handle) and mine a lot more, but now it's not worth my time and so I don't. In the old days, I could have spent an hour or two every week and mined and chopped what I needed, and even have some to sell to others. Now the wood and ore I get in a few hours just leaves me really pissed off.

I still have a lot of resources from the old days, but I know that if I stick around past the anniversary, I'll probably run low. At that point I'm going to have to buy from somebody, and I have a feeling that whoever I buy from probably didn't get them honestly. Not a very good feeling.

I kept the answers limited, but I did think about having options like "Yes, I'm a scripter and love the random resources"

 

[Warpig Inc]

rarewood treefolk spawning from reaper hatchet and introduce the prospector tree spike

Dull copper eli pickaxe spawning and having 25 ore like others

Mining or jacking for more then 3 hours and rares spawn without a tool.

 

[Cogniac]

Just to get this out of the way early: The randomization of resources was not a failed attempt to hurt scripters. It was not targeted at scripters in any way.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Personally I like the rotating resources. I can understand the frustration of lumberjacks, but it's made mining much easier for me. Instead of recall bouncing all over the place, I have two places I recall to and mine (both in Fel BTW) depending on if I'm normal mining or garg pick mining. I then simply run the length of the mountain accordingly until I run out of mining gear or room to carry, make the dumps, restock and keep going until I get bored.

With the EC, mining and smelting are a single action with a fire beetle in tow so that makes mining very easy. I might not get Valorite all of the time, but really I don't use a massive amount of it to begin with. Oddly enough, the color I strive for the most is copper (iron and dull being the most gathered, shadow in decent amounts, copper being the last one I need a higher quantity of due to BODs).

And Cogniac is right. it was never targeted specifically at scriptors. It was the only way feasible to make the higher end resources actually "rare". Level/zone based games like WoW or LotRO simply scale the material by level putting higher end resources in high level zones and giving them "cooldown" times on top to limit the supply. UO has neither of these concepts so had to take a different approach after people were able to simply target the resource they wanted as much as they wanted when they wanted.

There are arguments to be made that Lumberjacking should get the same toools that Mining has and/or the resource distribution should be loosened up as well as a debate on how often the resources should "shuffle", but given the dynamics of UO, I enjoy the current system.

I will also say that in my experience, I have seen less scriptors in the areas I mine post-change than I did pre-change, so there HAS been an affect to them.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

The way I'd see it if i were a script-miner is like this: " Hey, I see you wanna try to protect your high-end ubber 'rare' ores?? Tell you what, I'm not just gonna that it anyways, but I'm gonna take it ALL now, ALL colors, one spot after another, then rinse & repeat. How do you like me now!? "

 

[Raptor85]

I will also say that in my experience, I have seen less scriptors in the areas I mine post-change than I did pre-change, so there HAS been an affect to them.

Nah, relative to playerbase it's still the same, they just moved where they farm at. They don't have to fight with players anymore for the good resource spots so they sit at little out of the way nodes where nobody ever looks, they just don't normally hang out by the mines and big hillsides much anymore....they don't need to (the randomization lets them hide wherever they want)

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Nah, relative to playerbase it's still the same, they just moved where they farm at. They don't have to fight with players anymore for the good resource spots so they sit at little out of the way nodes where nobody ever looks, they just don't normally hang out by the mines and big hillsides much anymore....they don't need to (the randomization lets them hide wherever they want)

If they're in out of the way places where I'll never run into them, then they in no way bother me or affect my game. It's a lot better than them cornering the market completely on higher end resources. Now they have to play the same odds I do, and I'm willing to wager that the strip-mining method with the right tools and a beetle work better than the old recall-mine-recall system.

The only advantage they have is time and lack of fatigue/boredom... and really I don't consider that a legitimate argument when that was also the same under the old system as well.

 

[Raptor85]

...
If they're in out of the way places where I'll never run into them, then they in no way bother me or affect my game. It's a lot better than them cornering the market completely on higher end resources. Now they have to play the same odds I do, and I'm willing to wager that the strip-mining method with the right tools and a beetle work better than the old recall-mine-recall system.

The only advantage they have is time and lack of fatigue/boredom... and really I don't consider that a legitimate argument when that was also the same under the old system as well.

nope, the recall method is still FAR faster...and don't forget they use the tools too now to get higher end ores as well. (as a sidenote though, there ARE bots out there using beetles/stripmining also, but they're more common on siege and mugen than elsewhere...they even automatically gate in and out to drop off their ore!) The reason their advantage is even higher now though is that the amount of higher end ores you get is a DIRECT factor of how much time you put in. Personally I consider valorite and frostwood lost causes now, i dont have a lot of time in game, only 1-2 hours normally on days I do play, and in that time i can get 50 valorite ingots If i'm lucky and honestly the last time I actually found a frostwood tree was pure luck (it was the tree inside my house O_x) and it only gave 100 boards.....I havent seen one since.

I've given up, I just buy from people who I know for a fact are scripting it now (from time to time i manage to find them and kill them....free resources!) as there's not much point doing it myself...I could mine/lumberjack all month and still get less high end ore/wood than these people who spend less actual time at their keyboard in game than I do can in a day. Honestly do you think all those people who have the market cornered selling 10k deeds of all metal types for what would amount to a measly 200-300k per hour work, essentially controlling market prices, are not scripting them? Hell, just start circling around back hillsides in fel or mountain faces in the more dead shards (most of the farming is actually on the less played shards using transfer tokens monthly to bulk transfer millions of ingots for sale)...or here on siege just start checking caves and mountain passes...half the time i have ot shoo a bot away when mining so he doesnt drain my spots.

 

[Cirno]

The rare ores should be rare, and so in that regard the changed worked. Proportionately, the amount of rare ores entering the game reflected the intended rarity.
However, it failed at the intent people infer from it; to stop scripters. A script miner could mine the rare ores 23/7 in the same way as a legit miner could for however long they played in a day. Nowadays, a script miner can strip mine 23/7 in the same way as a legit miner can for however long they play in a day. The basic success of a script is through invested time, so proportionately, they're not doing much better under the new system, but they're not exactly doing worse, either.

So, there's not an answer that suits me.
I like it, but like so many things, it could be better.

 

[Hunters' Moon]

I have always hated the randomization of resource spawns. What if was the same for mobs? You would go into a dungeon not know that to expect. Could be mongbats. Could be paragon balrons. Never can tell.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Few people liked the randomization - but has everyone forgotten the frustration of recalling around all their marked val spots and finding every one empty because some scripter was mining them?
Most of the ore is used to fill bods - I guess what we need is a way to bribe the bod selling npc's a bit more - if they give you a val bod, another bribe will give you a location where you can mine the val to fill it

No, on second thoughts, a pick/shovel that will get you the right ore no matter where you dig

 

[Raptor85]

Few people liked the randomization - but has everyone forgotten the frustration of recalling around all their marked val spots and finding every one empty because some scripter was mining them?
Most of the ore is used to fill bods - I guess what we need is a way to bribe the bod selling npc's a bit more - if they give you a val bod, another bribe will give you a location where you can mine the val to fill it

No, on second thoughts, a pick/shovel that will get you the right ore no matter where you dig

What frustration? I'd just hang around a few minutes and kill them when they return...problem solved

Lol, probably the ONE thing I did like when ML was first launched was how unbelievably bloody the skirmishes got around frostwood trees when someone found one. It didn't last long but there was a good bit of "capture the tree" for a while.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Accepting that Siege is something of a special case - I think I was one of those occasionally dead frostwood gatherers. My original thought was in regards to mining on Europa.
I haven't voted on the poll - while I don't exactly hate random resources, I don't love them either. But I don't do bods, so my resource needs are more easily met.

 

[Frarc]

I don't mind random resources. Don't have a problem to find my ore for my BoDs. I do would like to see tools (Gargoyle pickaxe/ prospecting tool) for wood/logs simular like for ore.

 

[lucitus]

Because the system of gathering is so simple, you never will get bots out of the game in anyways, so dont try it. What you can bring in is for example a luck over time value, for example you havent mined for lets say one day, the luck over time value raises up and when you then mine again you get a better chance of gathering higher resources and if you found them the luck over time value decreases.

So script miners doing it 23/7 are alaways at the lowest chance, but players doing it only 2 hours per day are at a higher chance of getting better material.

 

[kRUXCg7]

So script miners doing it 23/7 are alaways at the lowest chance, but players doing it only 2 hours per day are at a higher chance of getting better material.

Mh nice idea... but... think of having 30 accounts. Each of them mining for only 2 hours per day - they still get 30 times more than you do. 2 more hours for lumberjacking. 19 hours left for dungeon Doom. I think they could easily shift their actions to something more worthwhile.

 

[Warpig Inc]

Those 30 paid accounts.

I have always combat strip mined with goyle/excuvator picks. And with the spawn of Ilsh have gone after the Paragon rare ore chest. Most my strip mining has been the Honor gate loop to respawn. A LOT. Randomize is more like 2 -3 random ore rotation per spot. High ore spots random to lower ore types and low ore types random other low ore. More then half the spots using pro goyl combo have never gotten above copper. There are two locations with the combo that have always been val. Just they are those spots that around the 5 hit spots. Tends spot linger on lower ore if they have high ore in that spot rotation. With enough hard core mining the Honor loop has been reduced to no better then shadow in 80% the spots I mined. Moved to greener pastures in Ilsh.

Add in spawning Gia's protectors for mining and jacking from over gathering. Dead or auto recall from agro will make unattended risk vs reward balance.

Even before random spots I preached it. Fix the damn Dull Copper Elementals. Goyl pick spawning and 25 ore.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

The rare ores should be rare, and so in that regard the changed worked. Proportionately, ... the game reflected the intended rarity.

I agree with that, in an extent. While I had my doubts before, I don't anymore, with numbers to prove it. Makes the rare stuff rarer? I used Val much more before it became 'rare'. It was supposed to be the best, the top of the line, and it was blue, it looked cool (RP), a status symbol of sorts. The game also wasn't all about the 'numbers' back then either - some say the game has become item based, I say number-based, numbers I didn't want, I just wanted to customize my toon and look cool while I kicked butt. Have a little fun.
Advent the New Loot System, granting a reconfirmation that those doubts had been removed. Top-end, Legendary artifacts, it did nothing, not even good roll play. My definition of rare had changed correctly. Rare is seeing someone with Val enhanced, knowing the grind they went thru to get there, now out of my way while I kill the spawn. Rare doesn't get used. Rare sits in a museum. You can't spend it and you can't use it (excluding Deco). That's how I find my rare ores, an unused prized possession that sit unused. What numbers taught me (and i think this is correct) is if you change 3 colors you have a 2.7% end success rate (70% fail each color). If I need colors divided, I hunt it. Same for the POF, the durability success is so poor that you had to be rewarded to bring it up to an acceptable, usable level, another thing I hunt instead of enduring the crafting grind.

I kinda liked Petra's "Colored Shovel" idea, Provided.... It's not turned into just more anal steps in getting one. Jump thru 50 hoops, blow whistles, ring bells, all in a specific order, as we have enough of that already. The Devs know ore is a big grind, hence ingot conversion was born, a quick fix attempt at broken mechanics.
Rare ore? Not in my book, none of 'em.

 

[Lorax_Pacific]

This isn't the way UO works now, but I was thinking about having another way to get rare resources. This idea probably isn't new...I was just thinking that if the process was turned over a little it could be affected with new ways to consider. The idea is that all natural iron ore or normal wood collected could be taken to either a refinery or lumber mill and there you could turn-in the resources and get back rare resources within the intended randomization percentages. The npc's at the refinery or lumber mill could be bribed or take into account your relationship to them for rare products. Now you could have a lumber mill or refinery house add-on that allows you to transform rare resources as well. The refinery or lumber mill could also be affected by some process like a catalyst, hydrotreater, or pressure or whatever to extract the resource. The catalyst could be obtained from monster loot, tinkered, or collected. Maybe the machines need oil rags applied to repair the house add-on as it wears. I think the only downside to this is smog or polluting our rivers. I would be bothered to have a pool of toxic goo around the foundation of my castle, but maybe it could become a poison moat.

-Lorax

 

[Cogniac]

One random suggestion: Fix the smelting of high-end ore. If I can mine it, I should be able to smelt it, with a 100% success rate.

 

[Barok]

My biggest peeve is even when I find a colored ore spot I only get 1-5% colored ore, the majority from the spot is iron.

 

[QueenZen]

I voted I HATE IT !

Rare should be somewhat rare but not so rare that something is nearly obsolete in merely trying to find it.

And I especially HATE the random number generator on granite colors of mining.

IF I would be so fortunate to actually mine up a puny amt of Verite ore, then I should get Verite granite there instead of more ugly plain granite rocks !! Bad enough I can mine for 2-3 hrs. somewhere on 2 shards, and about faint to even GET a verite or valorite vein of ore, the granite we get is even suckier !
Least they could do is let us have 4 of same color of granite in whatever color ore vein we get, not 1 valorite granite rock where we maybe we almost lucky to get 8 valorite ore...all we get it seems, is one colored rock, [even IN a colored ore vein].

I like making stone furniture hard to do when ya need 4 granite that matches, just to make even ONE colored stone furniture chair.

*and for my 2 hrs. of mining this morning, got oh maybe 6 verite, and 140 saltpeter, 1 verite granite *
The rest were plain ore/ plain granite, a few coppers and maybe 6 bronzes...bout it all else was plain !
And why is it SHADOW seems almost as rare to get any more as valorite, least for me..even using *upgrading tool*

Ditto goes for lumberjacking for most part, I get more frostwood and bloodwood boards off my vet reward than I do lumberjackin for them !

 

[Tina Small]

My biggest peeve is even when I find a colored ore spot I only get 1-5% colored ore, the majority from the spot is iron.

I notice a vast difference on this point between my elven miners and my human miners. There are many times with an elven miner that I get no iron at all from a location, all the ore is colored ore. I have always preferred human miners because they can carry more, but I had a few elven miners from long ago that I never trained and was amazed recently at the differences in the types of ores/woods they get.

I voted in favor of the random resources, even though I can't say I actually "love" it. The reason I voted for it is because I remember all too well rarely getting higher-end ore or wood from the few spots where they seemed to exist in Trammel before the chance because someone else always had those spots run empty. I'm also very concerned that if we convince the developers to go back to static locations, they'll plop the higher-end ore and lumber spots in dangerous locations and we'll actually be in even worse shape than now, unless by some miracle they start selling the stumps and ore carts so anyone can get and use them.

 

[QueenZen]

Yes I DO remember having to go to say Island of VALOR just to get some decent hues of wood types while dying to giant serps and everything else on that godforsaken island ! lol

Took a lot of valor to try to lumberjack on a mere lumberjacker on Valor isle, where the best wood trees were in some giant serp. nest from HELL ! lol

 

[Viper09]

What frustration? I'd just hang around a few minutes and kill them when they return...problem solved

Lol, probably the ONE thing I did like when ML was first launched was how unbelievably bloody the skirmishes got around frostwood trees when someone found one. It didn't last long but there was a good bit of "capture the tree" for a while.

Sure, maybe on Siege and for those who wanted to go about it that way in fel. But then there was tram where you couldn't do that.

If it weren't random the scripters would likely be draining all the valuable spots, getting a lot more of the good resources than they are currently getting. The only upside is the honest players might be able to get to a spot before the bot. Random is good but with the RNG the valuable resources are really hard to get at times. They could do with bumping up the chances a bit or introducing some tools to increase our odds of getting something good.

 

[Woodsman]

If it weren't random the scripters would likely be draining all the valuable spots, getting a lot more of the good resources than they are currently getting. The only upside is the honest players might be able to get to a spot before the bot.

In the past, I could spend a few hours going through my runebooks and hitting all of marked spots and eventually get what I needed, both for myself and to sell to others. Some days I would get up early and hit the shard just after the server came up and do quite well. Now I have to spend a ridiculous amount of time to get very little.

In the past, we competed for spots with other players and the scripters.

Now we have to compete for time, and the scripters win that competition hands down, because none of us can mine or chop 23/7.

 

[Driven Insane]

In the past, we competed for spots with other players and the scripters.

Now we have to compete for time, and the scripters win that competition hands down, because none of us can mine or chop 23/7.

Exactly!

I know why they made the change, but as an average player it made the collection of resources just another poorly thought out RNG system. I may not know much, but one thing I do know is people hate RNG systems. Not knowing when a reward is coming, if at all, is horrible.