Questions on wintermoor+tram vs fel

[Arnie QuickPalm]

Wintermoor and towns like it popped up so players could feel safe in the lawless world that was pretram

when tram came the majority of wintermoors residents moved to tram why did wintermoor not move with them ??

 

[Silly Seadog]

Arrrr, because due to the amount of people attemptin' ta place in the new area, 'twere not possible for all residents ta place together to form an actual "town" again. And me believes 'twere also many crashes and reverts what dinnae help 'tall!

 

[Omnicron]

DO we really need another thread about wintermoor. Im tired of the whole debacle.

 

[smip]

Arrrr, because due to the amount of people attemptin' ta place in the new area, 'twere not possible for all residents ta place together to form an actual "town" again. And me believes 'twere also many crashes and reverts what dinnae help 'tall!

AND if I remember right there were no more smurfs or GM run events.. TO INCLUDE GM blessed houses. Wintermoor was Wintermoor. Why move something that was born there? Wintermoor on Trammel would not be Wintermoor.

Besides.. some of the stuff he had could not be picked up. They were GM locked down.

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

DO we really need another thread about wintermoor. Im tired of the whole debacle.

This is not specifically about wintermoor it is using it as an example so read more than the title before posting your bs in this thread...

 

[Arnie QuickPalm]

but the reason that wintermoor was wintermoor was because of the people no ??

letting go of the items (something that should be easy for preAOS folk who have a great hatred for items) and moving the spirt of the town "COMMUNITY" to tram should have been easy no ?

 

[the 4th man]

I don't classify a bunch of houses in an area, a town. If thats the case, there's still plenty of towns in UO.

Agreed, one more post on shmitermoor, n I'm gonna puke.

 

[Arnie QuickPalm]

the only thing that baffels me more than why the town didnt move is why people read and post in threads with titles they are sick of

 

[smip]

the only thing that baffels me more than why the town didnt move is why people read and post in threads with titles they are sick of

LOL:loser:

 

[JC the Builder]

There was an attempt to create a Wintermoor in the same location on the Trammel facet. Xanthar probably knows all about it. All I know is it didn't succeed.

Clearly there should have been some program to allow willing communities to move to Trammel before players could place. It was basically a lottery at the time you could place in Trammel.

 

[Omnius]

and castle + keep builders got to place first during a time most folks didnt have more than 300k. it meant that small communities made of many homes were replaced by warehouse districts of castles

 

[JC the Builder]

That is a good point as well. Many communities were close together physically. But now all those Trammel locations were taken up by one large Keep or Castle. The way Trammel house placement was handled basically hindered community building from the start.

 

[D'Amavir]

Wintermoor and towns like it popped up so players could feel safe in the lawless world that was pretram

when tram came the majority of wintermoors residents moved to tram why did wintermoor not move with them ??

I get what you are trying to ask here. Its not specific to wintermoor but with the current focus on that particular town, you used it as your example to question the bigger picture of 'player towns' and the impact the creation of Trammel had on them.

To give my view on that I will say what I have said before. The development team of UO should have been more supportive in regards to the entire creation of Trammel event. Especially in regards to 'blessed' buildings and such. Obviously, the people behind the game realized that these places were special to their specific shards. If not, the blessings and special changes made in those towns wouldn't have taken place.

The dev team could have simply approached the leaders of these towns (and back in the day that wasn't hard to do. Everyone knew who ran the major player run towns on their shard) and worked with them to move those towns from what would become Felucca to what would become Trammel. The entire land rush that was the opening of Trammel wouldn't have had to happen. Something as simple as moving those houses along with their blessings to Trammel before the facet even opened would have saved a lot of towns that died away because of Trammel.

Also, not all towns would have chosen to move to this new land. Some were quite happy with the ruleset of Fel (which is what they started the game with) and didn't want to play under the Trammel rules. Those groups could have stayed where they were.

Its just that the dev team overlooked or didn't understand the impact that such a major change to the game would have on people that had been playing it since the start.

And this thread definitely isn't a red vs blue or trammel vs felucca or even a wintermoor vs people that hate wintermoor thread. I think the discussion around the impact Trammel had on player run towns is important in part to understand what happened as well as, hopefully, prevent such a major change to the game in the future from further killing the existing communities on both facets.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

I know of at least one community that migrated to Trammel with 100% success: Tel'Ruid, on the LS Shard. Even got the same location.

Others either stayed in Felucca, and eventually died.

More common, however, was people finding, joining, or creating new communities.

-Galen's player

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

when tram came the majority of wintermoors residents moved to tram why did wintermoor not move with them ??

You can easily replace Wintermoor with any number of names and it applies. I was in the same boat at the time being an active member of the Lake Superior town known as Evermore. We had built ourselves up reasonably well, ran a cool dungeon event (Escape!), and even got a couple of minor blessings in the process for our (then) fledgling museum.

When Trammelw as being introduced on the boards, we were all for it, however we asked MANY MANY times if we could move the town as it was to the exact locations in Trammel from Fel and was repeatedly told no (and I know we weren't the only ones).

Several issues combined to basically destroy a lot of player run establishments and towns of Fel:

1. They were run by non-PvP players in general. Had they REVERSED The rulesets, you would have seen many of these organizations remain.

2. As stated above, they did not allow houses to be transferred even to the same corrdinates from Fel to Tram.

3. The sheer SIZE of the Trammel Land Rush. Noon really expected it to happen, but the first night they opened housing, it was a DISASTER to the point of not even being able to log in. Then the second version with constant telestorming made it virtually impossible for people to coordinate placements.

4. Time. Simply time. Things change, people move on. People who started playing in High School have since graduated HS, maybe evenc ollege, started a family, gotten a job, or simply found new interests. Even IF the communities had been able to be moved or had he rulesets been reversed, many of them stil would have died out eventually due to players leaving the game.

5. And finally, the biggest reason why you rarely saw towns rebuilt from Fel to Tram is that once you've put in the work the first time, the time, passion, and everything else, it is VERY difficult to do the same thing again, not just in terms of coordination, getting the location, getting people involved, but also the MENTAL side of having the desire to start over and do it again.

 

[Uriah Heep]

I remember it well =). As well as I remember anything anyway.

Our guild at the time tried to move, in fact, a couple of us had placed a castle and a keep, for the guild town, and a revert took em away. Next time, we got booted to a different subserver to handle the load.
Ended up with small houses scattered all over between Brit and Trinsic

The whole thing, as has been stated before, was handled wrong. The proper way would have been for the red players to log in one day, and find themselves in Trammel, leaving Fel alone and the "safe zone" since that was home to everyone. Hindsight is 20/20, and all that...

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Hind sight nothing... I was yelling it before UO:R was released.

Not that it did much good...

 

[monnie101]

...

when tram came the majority of wintermoors residents moved to tram why did wintermoor not move with them ??

You can easily replace Wintermoor with any number of names and it applies. I was in the same boat at the time being an active member of the Lake Superior town known as Evermore. We had built ourselves up reasonably well, ran a cool dungeon event (Escape!), and even got a couple of minor blessings in the process for our (then) fledgling museum.

When Trammelw as being introduced on the boards, we were all for it, however we asked MANY MANY times if we could move the town as it was to the exact locations in Trammel from Fel and was repeatedly told no (and I know we weren't the only ones).

Several issues combined to basically destroy a lot of player run establishments and towns of Fel:

1. They were run by non-PvP players in general. Had they REVERSED The rulesets, you would have seen many of these organizations remain.

2. As stated above, they did not allow houses to be transferred even to the same corrdinates from Fel to Tram.

3. The sheer SIZE of the Trammel Land Rush. Noon really expected it to happen, but the first night they opened housing, it was a DISASTER to the point of not even being able to log in. Then the second version with constant telestorming made it virtually impossible for people to coordinate placements.

4. Time. Simply time. Things change, people move on. People who started playing in High School have since graduated HS, maybe evenc ollege, started a family, gotten a job, or simply found new interests. Even IF the communities had been able to be moved or had he rulesets been reversed, many of them stil would have died out eventually due to players leaving the game.

5. And finally, the biggest reason why you rarely saw towns rebuilt from Fel to Tram is that once you've put in the work the first time, the time, passion, and everything else, it is VERY difficult to do the same thing again, not just in terms of coordination, getting the location, getting people involved, but also the MENTAL side of having the desire to start over and do it again.

I think you missed the most important reason. People would whine and be upset and say that it is unfair and that they would be giving those Fel people special privlages.

:gun:

 

[JC the Builder]

I think you missed the most important reason. People would whine and be upset and say that it is unfair and that they would be giving those Fel people special privlages.

But everyone at that time was "Felucca people"?

 

[Chad Sexington]

I remember it well =). As well as I remember anything anyway.

Our guild at the time tried to move, in fact, a couple of us had placed a castle and a keep, for the guild town, and a revert took em away. Next time, we got booted to a different subserver to handle the load.
Ended up with small houses scattered all over between Brit and Trinsic

The whole thing, as has been stated before, was handled wrong. The proper way would have been for the red players to log in one day, and find themselves in Trammel, leaving Fel alone and the "safe zone" since that was home to everyone. Hindsight is 20/20, and all that...

You should never have been able to move back and forth from Tram and Felucca.

There should have been a 24 - 48 hour period that was well publicized, where you log in and decide if you want to go to the Felucca server or Trammel server. Then all of your belongings (including your house) should have been moved to the appropriate one.

 

[JC the Builder]

Xanthar sent me a reply when I inquired about the effort to make a Wintermoor in Trammel.

The Trammel thing lasted for a while, but it was so many big things like castles, it was kind of dumb.....not like the coolness of wintermoor where it really felt like a city.

 

[Omnicron]

Wintermoor and towns like it popped up so players could feel safe in the lawless world that was pretram

when tram came the majority of wintermoors residents moved to tram why did wintermoor not move with them ??

This is not specifically about wintermoor it is using it as an example so read more than the title before posting your bs in this thread...

Um how can this not be a thread about wintermoor?