question about swords template.

[aarons6]

im building a pvm warrior.
so far his skills are going to look like
115 parry
115 swords
115 bushido
100 tactics
100 anat
100 healing
88 chiv

100 str 40 int 140 dex

i have the virtue armor
ring
parry +13
dex 8
int 7
DI 21%

bracelet
dex 7
int 7
FC1
DI 20%


primer on arms talisman for 20% DI


GM 40 DI wep for 100 DI

been playing him for a couple weeks and so far its working good.
i been beating on aol, trogs, such in that level.


i built this guy as a cheap resource gatherer.. WW for hides.. hence the blessed all 70s, sell repair virtue armor set.
i can run with only a few insured items..
brace/ring/talisman/weapon.


i went to fight a WW, with my Reptile slayer radiant scim, with hld 44 on it and well pretty much didnt go so well.

it was the lack of resist to blame.. i got parad, and ate up.


now to rethink my temp..

i also want to take this guy to doom.. i fear the same thing happening..

to add magic resist i would change it to something like this.

115 swords
115 parry (remember i have +13 on my ring)
115 bushido
100 magic resist
100 spirit speak
100 tactics
88 chiv


has anyone use this temp in a place like doom?

ill def stone healing/anat so i can get it back but just want some insight on this alternate temp.

 

[Connor_Graham]

How does SS work without Necro for healing? I've never used it so don't have any working knowledge about it. Just looking at the template it seems there's a big hole in the healing.

 

[aarons6]

i think ss works with healing without necro.
i kinda tested it on tc i healed about 30 dmg.
also with a dead pile of monsters around you use no mana to heal.

 

[aarons6]

done some more testing an this temp wont work well for me.

i went on tc set my guy up to those specs.

i went to despise, went to the swampy area with the earth eles and agrod them all.. this is no problem with my guy now, i can take them all out with ease..

i quickly ran out of mana and died, SS heals just fine, but it uses like 15 mana per shot..
with no mr, no leech wep, the mana just doesnt come back quick enough to not have healing.

guess maybe stone tacs for resist when i go to doom?

 

[aarons6]

its all about armor..
i went to the bank, got some arties.
with this amor/stat i am able to toe to toe both the ogre lords on the island at the same time in despise level 2 with no problems. really dont even have to heal much..

spirit of totem mask
rune beetle caparace
jackals collar
midnight bracers, only cause i couldnt find any other artie sleeves?
ring of vile
legs of bane
stormgrips
bracelet of health
crim
totem of void

it gives me
150 dex, 100 str, 58 mana
67. 40. 65. 70. 44 resists.
45 hci, 25 lmc, 18 hp regen, 6 stam regen, 3 mana regen, 15 reflect dmg and 25 di.

and a soul seeker all 3 leeches and ssi of 60.


this is a good template tho.. i just have to buy all this stuff to make it work..



im going to test it with doom on the tc tomorrow.

 

[Connor_Graham]

That low fire resist is gonna have you roasting like a marshmallow at one of Draconi's burning houses.

Why don't you go with the Sampire? It would solve all of your problems, and leave you with only having to swap Anatomy out for Resist when you go to Doom. You wouldn't have to worry about having healing, and would only need to get a good SL, ML, SSI, DI weapon to use.

 

[imported_Farsight]

Honestly, if you aren't leeching or working in pairs, you really need necromancy on your template when you're in Doom.

Well, need is a strong word, it's possible without. But having 35-50 necromancy (for vampire or wraith form and/or casting curse weapon) makes life down there a whole heckuvalot easier.

Sure, you can work with spirit speak, but while you're casting spirit speak you aren't attacking. Sure, you can work with confidence, but if you're poisoned or the bad guy gets in two lucky hits, then you're pretty screwed there too, being forced to run away to heal.

Healing takes too long IMO.

Chivalry's healing spell has the same down side as spirit speak in that you don't attack while you're casting, but it's better in that 4 FC makes the heal nearly instant.

But leeches work through everything, even bleeds, mortal strikes and poisons. And if you have a high damage output, then they can even heal faster than most enemies in Doom can dish it out.

 

[aarons6]

so what would i change of this
115 parry
115 swords
115 bushido
100 tactics
100 anat
100 healing
88 chiv

to get the 35-50 necro..

i dont understand the necro thing, dont i need 99 necro?

i could drop healing/anat for necro?
thats 200 pts, i could get to 99 necro and then 100 resist and keep tactics?
or would you drop healing for necro and keep anatomy and have no resist?

or drop healing/anat for necro/ss and no resist?

i have been kinda confused about this necro thing.

 

[imported_Farsight]

Things to keep in your bank (or insured on your character)
Ossian Grimoire, +10 Necromancy
Bloodwood Talisman, +5 Necro, +10 spirit speak (I actually use this on on mine)
Ring/bracelet combination, +28 to +30 Necro (depending on funds spent, +14 pieces are a fraction of the price of +15 pieces) I actually use a +15 necromancy ring because the other mods I found were too good not to use.
Midnight bracers (cursed bracers are dirt cheap), +20 necromancy

Those pieces will give you +65 Necromancy together, meaning you only need 34 points in necromancy to have a 50% chance of casting vampire form. And since you only do it after death, it's a small inconvenience to do it at the bank. Death, once you discover the sampire, is very rare.

If you're extremely well funded and well connected, you can also find a mark of Travesty with necromancy on it as well, but those are so rare that they don't usually enter into the discussions on the subject.

I have 50 necromancy on my wraith/sampire because I like to be able to cast curse weapon reliably even without my jewels, and with my jewels and talisman, I can cast strangle and animate dead for extra damage.

 

[aarons6]

so with my temp then would you drop tactics to 50 and pick up 50 necro.
keeping healing and anat?

 

[imported_Farsight]

If it were me, I would drop healing and pick up 35 points of necromancy while improving anatomy and tactics as much as possible, be it 115 or 120. Healing only really helps when playing with other people. Most of your healing will be accomplished by leeching and the bushido skill 'confidence'. You could use potions and the chivalry healing for dire emergencies.

When I made my sampire, I eventually dropped healing from my template because I didn't use it at all.

I would also consider dropping anatomy for spirit speak, but that's really a case of 6 in one, half dozen in the other. Both skills are very useful, but anatomy takes less effort to train and no effort to use.

 

[aarons6]

i went to tc and tried to run a guy like that, it was alot of work. i ran out of mana alot and when i did i had no way of healing.
i had like 150 dex, 80 mana and 100 str.

this was using pretty much all the best stuff they give you on test center.
stuff i have no way of getting on the real shard.
the nicest one was the zyronic claw. it has like 80% mana leach.

i was thinking just dropping tactics for the 50 necro. i dont think i would miss the 2 or 4 base dmg i would lose and i hardly ever use the special moves that weapons have.

 

[imported_Farsight]

Not using special moves is a mistake in itself unless you only hunt the easy stuff. Even then, I like to use crushing blows or armor ignores every once in a while, just to mix things up.

And whirlwind attack. BRILLIANT!

Here's a little trick for the citadel, just to demonstrate the point. When I go to the blue key room with my samurai (no necro), I use my ornate axe to disarm all the thieves. Then I run into the middle of the four thieves with my soul seeker and whirlwind until everyone drops at once. As the soul seeker has pretty decent mana leech, it can leech as much mana as you use for the whirlwinds.

Also, with a 25% mana leech weapon, if you can do 60 damage per strike, you leech back as much as you use if you cast lightning strike with every swing. Or... I kill Miasma with my sampire on a regular basis using wind's edge (damage increase, 25% mana leech, fast as heck even at low stamina) and I rarely run out of mana so long as I honor Miasma before I attack him.

But the best weapon you could find (assuming swords) is an ornate axe with swing speed increase, stamina leech and mana leech. Other bonusses are just extra.

 

[slasherofveils]

<blockquote><hr>


Also, with a 25% mana leech weapon, if you can do 60 damage per strike, you leech back as much as you use if you cast lightning strike with every swing.

[/ QUOTE ]

you know 25% mana leech means it will leech 25% of the time, not leech 25% every swing


special moves are good however I agree with.

And the point of the template questioned with dropping healing, is assuming that you will be in vampire form for health with a mana leech weapon, or in wraith (for mana) with curse weapon for health. And, you always have confidence which heals in two ways: passively until you take damage, or when you successfully block with it enabled (believe it heals 6-8 hp/sta on successful block if you use it without running)

 

[Deception]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>


Also, with a 25% mana leech weapon, if you can do 60 damage per strike, you leech back as much as you use if you cast lightning strike with every swing.

[/ QUOTE ]

you know 25% mana leech means it will leech 25% of the time, not leech 25% every swing


[/ QUOTE ]

Is this true? I was under the impression that 25% mana leech means you leech every hit, but you only leech a random amount from 1% to 25% of the damage you do.

Someone please clarify for me =]

 

[imported_Farsight]

Honestly, I don't understand how leeches work, but from experience I can say that slasher's post is probably close to or exactly the truth. You don't leech every swing.

However, when I fight Miasma with my wind's edge, I leech an average of about 5 points a swing when I hit perfection, and thus average 60 damage a hit with enemy of one cast as well. That means I can lightning strike every swing and never gain or lose mana on the average, but there are bursts of never draining mana and bursts of draining significant mana with every strike.

So the actual formula isn't important to me so much as the results of the formula over time.

 

[slasherofveils]

<blockquote><hr>

Is this true? I was under the impression that 25% mana leech means you leech every hit, but you only leech a random amount from 1% to 25% of the damage you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

25% mana leech means that you have a 25% chance for the mana leech effect to go off. Now once it DOES go off, it leeches up to 40% of the damage dealt in that hit back in mana. It is not guaranteed 40%. Sta leech is the only thing that leeches a guaranteed amount. Life and mana leeches are randomized and will leech UP TO the amounts listed below.


Each leech works the same way (% listed on weapon is chance for it to leech) but the different types give you different amounts back.

Sta leech will give you 100% of damage in the hit back as sta.
Mana leech gives up to 40% back
Life leech gives up to 30% back

So again mana leech is very susceptable to the evil RNG.

 

[Deception]

<blockquote><hr>

John@EA "Wilki", Community Coordinator: The old method used your leech % as a chance for the effect to fire each time you swing. Each time the effect fired, you would get 40% of the post-resist damage inflicted back as mana, or 30% back as hit points.

The new method uses the leech % as the top end of a range. The amount of that 40% of mana (or 30% of life) that actually gets delivered is randomly determined -- from 0 to your leech %. This amount is added every time an attack hits.

The resulting effect is that the amount leeched over time will be less -- from a little bit less, for slower weapons, down to about half for fast ones. However, because it will deliver smaller amounts continuously, hopefully it will not feel like the ability has been nerfed dramatically.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is from a September 2006 FoF. This says that you leech every hit, but the amount you leech can be anywhere from 0-50%.

I guess a weapon with 50 mana leech will leech anywhere from 0-20% mana for each hit.
(50% of 40% is 20%, therefore being the maximum possibly leeched)


So I found this info for mana and life leech, but I don't know how stamina leech works right now? If it works the same way, perhaps you leech up to the amount listed on the weapon? (Meaning if you have a wep with 50% stamina leech, you can leech anywhere from 0% to 50%)

I'm just not sure on this. The life and mana leeches havent been giving me any problems on my weapons, it's only the stamina leech. 3 low stamina swings with an ornate without a stamina leech going off is brutal.

 

[Deception]

Ok, a tiny bit of testing told me everything i need to know.

Mana - You will leech every hit. The minimum you will leech is 0, and the maximum amount you leech will be:
Damage*0.4*Mod/100

Example: 50% mana leech weapon, hitting for 100 damage:
Max Mana Leeched = 100 * .4 * 50/100 = 20

You will randomly leech 0-20 mana per hit.

Life - Same as above, except a factor of .3 instead of .4.

In the same example above, you will leech 0-15 life per hit.

Stamina - Your chance to leech is dependent on the weapon's stamina leech intensity. If you have a weapon with 50% stamina leech, you will leech 50% of the time. Each time the leech goes off, you will gain stamina equal to the amount of damage you deal.