question about dci...

[blueturtle00]

ok so ive got the cap of 45 dci on my necro/mage and tryed out parry instead of spirit speak but i still get hit a lot what am i missing here ive fought some mages on my warrior that i can barely hit whats up with that?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Parry has an 80 dex requirement for it to be fully effective.

DCI is not related to parry and is an addition to the basic weapon dodge chance you get from weapon skill/wrestling/mage weapon or defensive wrestle.

Also taking spirit speak off a necro mage is fairly unwise as the only point of necro with no ss is forms and only one of those works on a necro mage with no ss.

 

[blueturtle00]

ok so basicly if i want to take full advantage of dci i should change up my template from necro/mage to mabye inscribe/wrestling

 

[galefan2004]

ok so ive got the cap of 45 dci on my necro/mage and tryed out parry instead of spirit speak but i still get hit a lot what am i missing here ive fought some mages on my warrior that i can barely hit whats up with that?

You tried parry instead of spirit speak? Do you know anything about necros AT ALL? Spirit speak is Evaluating Inteligence for necros. You don't want to give up spirit speak at all.

What you are missing is most likely 115+ magery with a -0 magery weapon. Those mages that you can't hit are probably sporting 100+ parrying, 100+ weapon (or mage weapon), and 45 DCI.

 

[blueturtle00]

yes and i do know about necro and the fact that i hate it for pvp just trying things out because even with staff of pyro's and 45 dci i still get hit all the time

 

[ColterDC]

what's you magery at?

If you only have 100 magery and your opponent has 120 weapon skill, 45 HCI and some HLD... that would make you fairly easy to hit.

 

[blueturtle00]

i have 115 magery atm whats that have to do with my opponents wep skill? i just came back to the game like 4 months ago after 3 years and am still trying to get used to all the changes

 

[ColterDC]

I assumed you were using a -0 mage weapon.

Do you have a weapon skill or are you using a -0 mage weapon?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

i have 115 magery atm whats that have to do with my opponents wep skill? i just came back to the game like 4 months ago after 3 years and am still trying to get used to all the changes

Your magery is being used as your weapon skill when you use a mage weapon, so if your only 115 magery your already at a disadvantage because every dexxer will (or you should at least assume they do) have 120 weapon skill.

Thats what dci works off your weapon skill. Everyone hitting you will be 120 because thats the main point of their template to hit.

Changing to scribe/wrestle doesn't make any difference. If you have 120 wrestle and 45 dci it's exactly the same as having 120 mage and 45 dci with a mage wep -0, except with wrestle you can't be disarmed.

You need either a weapon skill, mage weapon, wrestling or defensive wrestle that is equal to 120 just to be equal in defense to their offense.

On top of that most dexxers use HLD (hit lower defense) which takes 25 off your DCI and as most mages don't have HLA (hit lower attack) you can't do much about their HCI.

 

[blueturtle00]

Hmm well then now im really lost how is it possible for my warrior with 120 swords and 45 hci to miss so much when trying to hit mages

 

[ColterDC]

If that mage also has 120 weapon skill (or -0 mage weapon) and 45 DCI.... Your hit/miss ratio is 50%.

If you don't have any HLD on your dexxer, I would suggest getting some.

 

[blueturtle00]

i do its on my wep and i got mace and shield glasses

 

[Dexdash]

unfortunatly dci can be stacked to negate hld plus i dont know if youve ever seen these but bushido mages...... yuck

 

[blueturtle00]

dunno never heard of that template before

 

[mmmbeer]

Hmm well then now im really lost how is it possible for my warrior with 120 swords and 45 hci to miss so much when trying to hit mages

because they either --
a) have a weap skill like wrestle to counteract your offensive skill -- or
b) have 120 magery with a -0 mage weapon that ACTS like you have a weapon skill to counteract your offensive skill.

if you dont have a weapon skill at all you will get hit 100% of time

 

[Landicine]

I use the passive wrestling from eval. int and anatomy (defensive skill of sum of both skills + 20 divided by 2). I also have 45% defense chance. I haven't finished the template yet, so my anatomy is still low, but I have ~102 skill by the formula. I figured out using the stratics combat calculator that I have a 57% change of being hit by someone with 120 skill and 45 hit chance increase. If I didn't have anatomy and only my 110 eval, I would have a 82% chance of getting hit with 45 DCI and a 100% change of getting hit with 0 DCI. I would say that an extra 25% chance of NOT getting run through with an armor ignore + lightning weapon is worth investing it.

Even with 120 magery, a perfect mage weapon, and 45 defense chance you have 50/50 of getting hit by someone with 120 weapon skill and 45 hit chance. That's just how it is. Still better than getting hit all the time by every single special move the person on the other end could consider using against you.

 

[Lynk]

dunno never heard of that template before

I run a bushido/parry mage for factions because my shard is over-run with the endless mana mortal/conc/mortal/conc/rinse and repeat archers.

20 mage
20 eval
20 resist
15 bush
15 parry
80 med
50 chiv

after stat inc from armor my stats are
90 str (105 hp)
80 dex (80 stam)
95 Int (120 mana)

I have a one handed -23 mage wep with DCI (50 total dci, helps a bit to negate the hld) and the crystalline and +5 magery talisman. That template is VERY item dependant so if you can't afford to put together an aof/folded steel/inquisi/orny/crystalline suit it would be tough to make it worthwhile. I like to chug pots, but i suppose you could do it with the pyros staff.

You can pretty much shrug off any dexer, although with only item SDI and 80 med you really have to use your offensive spells wisely.

I was actually thinking about dropping the 50 chiv (used for remove curse only) for 50 wep skill related to the mage weapon so I could use Evade, haven't experimented with that yet though.

**Edit** You can also get some pretty nice critical hits with lightning strike. I've hit for 30 with a crit, but it's not reliable enough in PvP to work it into your offense.

*edit 2*
· Evasion now requires at least 50 weapon skill with the weapon currently being wielded
· Evasion duration will scale with your Bushido skill. Range is 3-6 second duration, with a 2 second bonus if your bushido is above GM and both tactics and anatomy are GM or better
· Evasion parry modifier will scale with your Bushido skill. Range is 16-40%, with a 10% bonus if your bushido is above GM and both tactics and anatomy are GM or better
· Evasion can now only be activated once every 20 seconds.

Based on the publish notes with my template above I would have a 73% chance to parry a spell/weapon attack with evade (1/3rd of a % chance to parry per point of Bushido based on the scale above, plus 35% to parry from 15/15 parry/bush). I'm definately switching to try that out tonight :0

 

[ColterDC]

I use the passive wrestling from eval. int and anatomy (defensive skill of sum of both skills + 20 divided by 2).

I've never understood why a mage would use this any more. If you're going to spend the skill points, instead of anatomy which does nothing for you other than what you mentioned. Why not just invest the points into wrestling so at least you have the special moves?

Just wondering.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I've never understood why a mage would use this any more. If you're going to spend the skill points, instead of anatomy which does nothing for you other than what you mentioned. Why not just invest the points into wrestling so at least you have the special moves?

Just wondering.

It (the formula it uses) can save you 20 points, at the cost of two fairly unimportant specials.

You can then make a necro/mage (with the aid of + skill items) that doesn't need a mage weapon and therefore can't be disarmed.

It can also be used to make other cramped templates work, especially with skills with low requirements like poisoning/sp weaving/scribe.

 

[ColterDC]

It (the formula it uses) can save you 20 points, at the cost of two fairly unimportant specials.

I wouldn't call either of the wrestling special moves unimportant, especially disarm.

You can then make a necro/mage (with the aid of + skill items) that can't be disarmed.

hmm... interesting, but again I don't think wasting 100 skill points on anatomy is as good as some of the other options?

typical mage/necro

120 magery
120 eval
120 resist
120 med
120 necro
120 SS

=720 skill points...no room for anatomy

Even if you weren't scrolled to 120's, I would rather pick up a -0 mage weapon than waste 100 skill points on anatomy.

It can also be used to make other cramped templates work, especially with skills with low requirements like poisoning/sp weaving/scribe.

I don't see how wasting 100 points on anatomy helps with an already cramped template.

Not arguing with you, I just don't see anyone using this any more.

 

[Lynk]

deleted

 

[Crystilastamous]

120 Wrestling.... is better than 12O anatomy... on a mage... unless you have healing =P, which would be slow on a mage.

 

[Lynk]

maybe it would be worthwhile on a wep/tactics mage, so when you got disarmed you could still survive, but I can think of much better ways to use those skill points.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

You don't need all of those at 120 and having them there means you need a mage weapon, which means either one of the not so great 2 handed ones or buying a 1 handed one and having to balance out a load of negatives.

You couldn't ordinarily build wrestle in to a necro mage without giving up resist or eval which would either make it unneccessarily vulnerable or take away a lot of offense.

Using defensive wrestle makes your suit easier to build and you can't have your defense disarmed.

My red in his suit had:

120 Mage
77 Med
120 Eval
120 Resist
100 Anat
105 Necro
120 SS

His suit gave: 77/86/73/88/70, 101 lrc, 42 lmc, 11 mr, 25 sdi, 20 dci, 3/6
42 skill points between the ring, scrappers and bloodwood. The bloodwood is only for 5 necro the ss bonus on it doesn't work, it also works as a dmg removal talisman for strangle/bleed/mortal/poison. Which comes in handy with the 2 minute apple timer.

Could go 7x120 with a mage weapon but being disarmed isn't good, plus I'm a cheapskate and cba to buy a crystaline/inquiz/folded steel and all the rest of it.

Another I used:

120 Mage
120 Eval
80 Med
120 Resist
100 Scribe
80 Poisoning
100 Anat

I don't have the exact suit mods for that as I took it apart sometime ago but it was roughly, all 70's corpse proof, 100 lrc 35+ lmc, 11 mr, 45 dci (1 handed and without the glasses) 4/6... The reason it was 4/6 because I sometimes changed scribe for 90 spellweaving (100% success at wind) and had 90 med. Used the scribe/poison for a few duels against VIP, used the poison/wind for a few field fights against VIP.

Also used it for a couple of PvM templates high SDI necro mage chars etc for trammy stuff like doom and invasion events.

I expect someone will comment on 77 med, but I never had any mana trouble on that char. (It was after the 'big change'! where the fractions of med started counting) Or on the 20 DCI, but it wasn't as necessary then as it is now.(This was all between a year and a half and half a year ago, after the nerve/tamer/ds changes but before super dragons, cba with PvP lately mainly because it's all either tamers, archers or tamer/archers)

Oh and I wasn't the only person using it. It may not be the best or gimpy but it definitely worked.