PvP template discussion (moved out of the kitsune thread)

[DreadLord Lestat]

If you are going to play a ninja stealth archer

This seems like an interesting template but crowded. I am trying to think how this could work. This is what I am looking at but I don't know much about ninjitsu/hiding/stealth.

110 Tame
110 Lore
110 Archery
110 Tactics
100 Ninjitsu
100 Hiding
80 Stealth

I know you can add jewelery and other items. Maybe 120 archery with hunters headress. It seems like with some tweaking, it can make a nice PvP template. What do you think?

 

[jeza]

Re: Bake Kitsune

Well I see a huge weakness in this template :
How do you heal yourself and your pet ?

And you depend on a runbook to travel, no magery to even cast recall.
Even worst, if you tame a non ridable pet you cant cast a gate to bring it to the stables and risk to loose it if you're attacked before finding a moongate.

 

[DreadLord Lestat]

Re: Bake Kitsune

Well I see a huge weakness in this template :
How do you heal yourself and your pet ?

And you depend on a runbook to travel, no magery to even cast recall.
Even worst, if you tame a non ridable pet you cant cast a gate to bring it to the stables and risk to loose it if you're attacked before finding a moongate.

I agree, thats why I was asking. It seems like a crowded template and I wasn't sure how it could work though it might be worth experimenting. As far as vetting and healing pet, for me this template would only be vaild as a PvP template and I really don't think there is time to vet a pet during PvP though I have never PvP'd on my tamer.

Lack of magery for recalls isn't that much of a worry since scrolls can charge books and I believe that is 100% casting on that so no fizzle. Since this character would be PvP'ing, he would not need gate for pets because he would have bnonded pets to PvP or hunt for that matter so he won't need to gate and any pets he would have would most likely come from my main tamer and transfered then stabled till 7 day bond cycle would be up. The only issue that I would see as a factor would be healing the character itself. I don't know anything about Ninjitsu and don't know if it has any kind of healing but I am guessing not since you brought healing up. Any suggestions? I might be able to squeeze in some chivaly but am not sure if 100 hiding or ninjitsu is even needed. I know a lot of people stop stealth at 80 since they can wear leather armor and go 16 steps before skill check again. I am intrigued by this template and hope there is some way to make it somewhat viable.

 

[jeza]

Re: Bake Kitsune

Well if you dont plan to tame with this char, you're right the lack of magery is not really an issue.
And you're right about runebooks, no freeze or regs needed, you just have to recharge it with recall scrolls

I don't PvP at all so I'll let someone else answer the question about healing a pet while fighting. But still with no magery or vet you can't rez it either. I know that NPC vets do it for a fee now but it's not very practical.
Again maybe it's not an issue in PvP, I wouldn't know

So if the only problem left is how to heal yourself, I guess you could use pots ? With a balanced bow it's not a problem.
Sure if you die you loose your pots but it's the same with healing and brandies.
And pots are insta heal while healing is 10 sec at best.
So i never tried this solution but it could work maybe ....

 

[Salya Sin]

Re: Bake Kitsune

I know that NPC vets do it for a fee now but it's not very practical.

Half the time the NPC's won't rez... they tell you to come back later. I have not once had an NPC rez anything... But maybe that is just me...

So if the only problem left is how to heal yourself, I guess you could use pots ?

Don't pots have a timer? And I don't think they would heal enough to be using exclusively for healing... but again... that's just my opinion.

 

[Llewen]

Re: Bake Kitsune

This seems like an interesting template but crowded. I am trying to think how this could work. This is what I am looking at but I don't know much about ninjitsu/hiding/stealth.

110 Tame
110 Lore
110 Archery
110 Tactics
100 Ninjitsu
100 Hiding
80 Stealth

I know you can add jewelery and other items. Maybe 120 archery with hunters headress. It seems like with some tweaking, it can make a nice PvP template. What do you think?

I think you'd want to bring your taming up to 120 to make sure that controlling your dragon isn't an issue. But that is easy enough to do with some skill + jewels, and I think that 120 archery would also be a must, but with the headress and some jewels this would be easily attainable.

Well I see a huge weakness in this template :
How do you heal yourself and your pet ?

Healing isn't as big a deal with a dragon, because they are so tough. And it also tends not to be as big a deal in pvp either. But it would be possible to squeeze in 55 chiv onto that template, which, if you kept your karma up would provide you with healing for you and your pet, and curse removal. If points are an issue you could probably afford to lower your hiding to 80.

With that template and a good dragon in pvp, your dragon should never die. If your dragon dies, you've done something stupid and deserve the pain of going to get it rezzed...

Well if you dont plan to tame with this char, you're right the lack of magery is not really an issue.
And you're right about runebooks, no freeze or regs needed, you just have to recharge it with recall scrolls

Exactly. I think this template would be devastating in pvp if played well.

 

[[JD]]

Re: Bake Kitsune

This seems like an interesting template but crowded. I am trying to think how this could work. This is what I am looking at but I don't know much about ninjitsu/hiding/stealth.

110 Tame
110 Lore
110 Archery
110 Tactics
100 Ninjitsu
100 Hiding
80 Stealth

I know you can add jewelery and other items. Maybe 120 archery with hunters headress. It seems like with some tweaking, it can make a nice PvP template. What do you think?

I have a mage-tamer and a stealth archer and was kinda thinking about combining the skills of the 2 via soulstones. Here's what I can tell you about a template like this:

110 Taming/Lore is enough to control a GD 99%. You won't do any taming with this toon but it will be enough for control purposes. Just make sure you have access to a 120 tamer, or you have jewels to bump you up for taming purposes to obtain new pets.

Hiding at 100 and Stealth at 80 is more than adequate. I used to be 100Hiding/120 Stealth and I lowered my stealth to 80 and have noticed practically no difference as long as I'm wearing mediable armor. Stealth is really COOL in that you can get a LOT of stealth items: Embroidered oak leaf cloak +5 stealth, cloak of silence +10 stealth, a Britanian investigator cloak with +20 stealth, Shadow dancer legs +20 stealth... if the items fit your template and don't leave you lacking, use them- they will help you save skill points.

You are gonna want 120 Archery. Archery skill is one factor in determination of how much you hit and get hit. You don't wanna be the guy with 110 archery going against people with 120 weapon. You'll miss more and they'll hit more. Train arch to 100 and wear the hunter's headdress to get you to 120 if you cant afford the skill pts. Just be aware you'll take a hit elsewhere (resists) the more artifacts you use.

Use imbued Jewelry to your advantage. You can throw on stuff like HCI, DCI, Damage increase, Dex, and +Skill stuff.

you can sacred journey with JOAT chivalry but only with bonded pets. The lack of magery, chivalry, or vet is gonna hurt you in the healing the pet dept. Even a little bit of one of these skills - probably chiv - will be greatly beneficial to you. if you go with no vet your friend is gonna need it so you can pet res. the npc's arent adequate.

If you drop the hiding-stealth-ninjitsu and use a mountable pet (Beetle + Mare) you will gain a TON of skill pts back which can be used on things like vet, chivalry, meditation, resists, etc. I'm sure there's a way to make a template like this work, it's just VERY tight - taming and stealth are two heavy skills and don't leave room for the "damage" portion of your toon, nor the "support" portion of your toon. I wouldn't wholey rely on pets for damage in PVP because they have a habit of acting up at the most inoppoertune times.

 

[Stupid Miner]

Re: Bake Kitsune

This seems like an interesting template but crowded. I am trying to think how this could work. This is what I am looking at but I don't know much about ninjitsu/hiding/stealth.

110 Tame
110 Lore
110 Archery
110 Tactics
100 Ninjitsu
100 Hiding
80 Stealth

I know you can add jewelery and other items. Maybe 120 archery with hunters headress. It seems like with some tweaking, it can make a nice PvP template. What do you think?

You'd want to find some way to put around 100 spellweaving on there. Gift of Life rezzes pet at 50% health, Gift of renewal regens... I dunno something around 15 hp per 2 seconds? Essence of wind reduces FC and SSI for any opponent on the screen for a few seconds (better numbers on the weaving page). Attune Weapon for an instant ~90 non-magic damage shield.

 

[Wenchkin]

Just so the kitsune thread stays on topic, I've pulled out the template discussion posts into this thread.

Wenchy

 

[[JD]]

One more comment on the 110/110 thing for 99% GD control

I chose to go slightly different route which I believe is better.

I went 115 Taming, 105 lore. This gives the SAME 99% GD control chance as 110/110 and takes the SAME exact 220 skill pts to achieve..

Only sneakily, I have a macro in the EC I can press which unequips my Totem of the Void and equips my Birds of Britannia +5 Taming/Lore talisman.

So any time I wanna tame something, I press 1 key, and VIOLA! I'm at 120 taming and 110 Lore. Also works great for insta 2 additional stable slots.

I recommend this over the 110/110 method, it lets you have 120 taming for the same exact cost in skill pts, gives an additional stable slot over 110/110.

 

[Llewen]

One more comment on the 110/110 thing for 99% GD control

I chose to go slightly different route which I believe is better.

I went 115 Taming, 105 lore. This gives the SAME 99% GD control chance as 110/110 and takes the SAME exact 220 skill pts to achieve..

Only sneakily, I have a macro in the EC I can press which unequips my Totem of the Void and equips my Birds of Britannia +5 Taming/Lore talisman.

So any time I wanna tame something, I press 1 key, and VIOLA! I'm at 120 taming and 110 Lore. Also works great for insta 2 additional stable slots.

I recommend this over the 110/110 method, it lets you have 120 taming for the same exact cost in skill pts, gives an additional stable slot over 110/110.

I guess why I prefer 120 taming/110 lore is because if you happen to fail a command, it lessens your chances of failing the second command, unless I'm misunderstanding something, which is always possible. But yes, your plan sounds like a good one.