[Magery] PVP Mage Fencer template viable?

[Merlin]

So I'm still getting used to the world of PVP, and I currently have a Nox Necro Mage which I simply don't have much use for. I was thinking of changing up the template to the following:

120 Magery
120 Evaluate Intelligence
120 Fencing
100 Tactics
100 Poison
90 Parrying
70 Focus or Meditation

I was also contemplating using Crystalline ring and/or one of the new Talismans to free up a few extr skill points to move around. But before I went about moving forward too far with this template, I wanted to bounce the idea off of any seasonsed vets who are willing to share their vast pool of knowledge.

Is this template even viable? Are there any major drawbacks that immediately come to your mind that someone who is still green to PVP wouldn't pick up on yet?

If you feel the template itself is viable, what would you set your stats at (based off of 260 total)?

Any honest feedback would be appreciated, don't hold back if you think this template totally blows.

 

[Vexxed]

2 things....

1) I wouldn't make a mage without Resist.....1 mana vamp and your offense and defense takes a hit. Also....any other decent mage will be able to cycle you easily keeping you poisoned without resist.

2) Don't quote me on this but I think you might not need tactics to be able to toggle the poison weapon special (JUST weapon skill + poisoning) . It has been forever since I played that temple thought and if you wanted access to other specials you would need tactics for sure.

Personally if I was going to make a weapon using mage I'd go ..
120 mage / med / eval / resist / wep skill
90 tactics
50 ninja
740 points total and then use a wakizashi for frenzied whirl wind and the forced walk. As a mage the reason dexxers can be hard to kill is because they offscreen when you get a combo off. If they get hit with Frenzied WW and cannot run...well that makes it easier. FWW is also a great move for ganking...

 

[CorwinXX]

50 ninja for ...?

 

[Merlin]

Is 120 Med really needed for PVP char? Especially if I'm going to have both magic spells and hand-held weapon, it seems a bit high...

I also note that this build I proposed is really meant to be for going out in groups and serving in a support role. I'm not much of a solo-PVP'er, atleast not yet.

I was also considering a Ninja/Stealther/Thrower template for a PVP char, so I wasn't likely to put Ninja on this particular guy.

 

[Vexxed]

50 ninja for ...?

Frenzied Whirl Wind requires 50 Bushido or Ninjitsu to use.

120.. Med.. Well just Figure out how much MR is enough for you. I don't really like to run anything less than 2.8 MR / Sec because on a Mage I find myself limiting what I cast at that point.

http://www.knuckleheads.dk/manaregen.php

 

[CorwinXX]

I don't really like to run anything less than 2.8 MR / Sec because on a Mage I find myself limiting what I cast at that point.

2.8 is a lot... 120 med, 27 MR...

 

[Vexxed]

2.8 is a lot... 120 med, 27 MR...

Well.. I'm usually HUMAN... so that's 20 Focus base which makes it 20-21 MR in items + 120 MED.. but hey it's PvP and that's pretty much what I'd call a decently equipped mage suit these days..

 

[Merlin]

Since this char I'm creating is going to be more in a support role and doing hit-and-runs, as opposed to full on solo PVP battles, does focus make more sense than med?

Also, for the original potential template I posted, does resist make more sense than parry?

 

[Vexxed]

2.8 is a lot... 120 med, 27 MR...

Well.. I'm usually HUMAN... so that's 20 Focus base which makes it 20-21 MR in items + 120 MED.. but hey it's PvP and that's pretty much what I'd call a decently equipped mage suit these days..

 

[Merlin]

Also - any suggestion on stats?

The help is appreciated thus far.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Focus is not really used unless you would have mysticism skilled up. Tactics you only need at 90 in order to conduct primary weapon skills. Stats you need around 105 strength if you use gear that has 95 strength requirement, otherwise adjust as necessary. Dexterity around 20 so when you are stamina leeched you'll still be able to not fall on your face. You could just do the -20 sc weapon trick and use +20 magery jewelry/gear to make up that difference. Refer to the forum search to learn what I am talking about if you do not already.

 

[Merlin]

An update:

So I finally got all the stats together... template looks like this so far:

120 Magery
120 Evaluate Intelligence
120 Fencing
110 Tactics (+10 from Tali)
100 Poison
110 Parrying (+10 from shield)
60 Resist Spells

Was doing VvV with some guildies and managed to get off a few kills, while only dying once myself. My suit is absolute garbage right now, but I wasn't going to make major suit adjustments until I atleast got some of the mechanics down first. I will leave that for later. I had some trouble hitting infectious strike (using Fang of Ractus for now), but the few times I did get it off, it hit hard enough to scare off my foes. I had to rely on spells more than I would've liked, although hitting poison spell followed by a flame strike was my standard 1-2 punch. I was also able to use earthquake and resurrection in a support role with my team. So far, a positive enough start that I will continue to work on the character.

My STR is at 125, my DEX is at 17 and INT is at 118. Considering the difficulty I had with getting off hits with my fencing weapon, I will probably be raising DEX and lowering INT. I like STR high for now – there were atleast two occasions where I had less than 10 HP but managed to run off.

I’ve also cashed in some silver points for VvV items – the Crimmy, Crystalline Ring, few others. I’m reluctant at the moment to lower natural magery just yet, but if I decided to stick with this template/character for the long term, I would probably use it to lower Magery by 20, and stick another 20 points in resist. In addition, I have several marks of travesty, including the fencing/tactics one. So I could possibly lower fencing by 10 as well, and have another 10 points to allot somewhere else.

Any other comments/suggestions are welcome - especially regarding a suit, since that will be the next area I start thinking about as I continue to work on the template.

 

[CorwinXX]

I would tried to drop Parrying to 100 and get more Resisting Spells.
Your parrying doesn't work right now. You should get 80 DEX.

As to suit I would tried studded one for the sake of 55 LMC. In this case you could also increase your DCI cap to 60.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Good advise by CorwinXX. Yes, you're dexterity is much too low and consequently why most parry mage templates have difficulty working.

The crux of all this is that without at least 115 resisting spells, you are at a disadvantage against any elder to legendary mage. Having resisting spells of 60 won't really do anything against a player. You'll occasionally resist a poison cast from an imp or something to that extent, that's about it.

I haven't played a pvp mage in a good while, but...mana vampire has been on the hit parade for at least 5 years. Maybe some don't use it, but if I don't know the character and based on what I see with examining the opposition, it never hurts to give it a whirl!

 

[Merlin]

I would tried to drop Parrying to 100 and get more Resisting Spells.
Your parrying doesn't work right now. You should get 80 DEX.

As to suit I would tried studded one for the sake of 55 LMC. In this case you could also increase your DCI cap to 60.

Appreciate the advice thus far. A technical question for you - at what dex does Parry work? Is 80 the minimum I need? I will probably raise dex to that range anyway, but just wanted to know for future builds.

Since my parry is 110 (including +10 from Hephaestus), I will probably lower it to around 80 - and put the extra 20 points in Resist. Then maybe get more resist from crafted jewels and pooh-pooh the idea of using Crystaline ring. I'm hoping that if I were to get into the 100 to 110 range for resist, it would atleast make me more viable. The 60 I put in there now was really just because I happened to have 60 resist on a stone and had 60 free skill points. So figured if the shoe fits...

Another question: is it necessary to have both tactics and eval at 110/120? I use fencing and magery pretty evenly. Just was curious if this is an area where I could lower a few points to put elsewhere without compromising too much in terms of damage.

Good advise by CorwinXX. Yes, you're dexterity is much too low and consequently why most parry mage templates have difficulty working.

The crux of all this is that without at least 115 resisting spells, you are at a disadvantage against any elder to legendary mage. Having resisting spells of 60 won't really do anything against a player. You'll occasionally resist a poison cast from an imp or something to that extent, that's about it.

I haven't played a pvp mage in a good while, but...mana vampire has been on the hit parade for at least 5 years. Maybe some don't use it, but if I don't know the character and based on what I see with examining the opposition, it never hurts to give it a whirl!

Advice taken - per above, I will take the advice and raise resist. Not exactly sure if I will be able to get it to the 115 range though. Hopefully will still be enough of a noticable improvement if I were to get into the 100/110 area.

 

[Obsidian]

Parrying effectiveness is reduced below 80 Dex. You need 80 and above to not be penalized. Check the equation for parrying on UO Stratics under combat related and you can see how Dex affects your chance to block.

 

[icm420]

just a suggestion..
the heph shield is not very good for parry mages, look for a reactive paralyze shield if you plan to run a parry mage.. the heph shield is for nox OR scribe mages that usually have 20-40 points left over. throw the heph shield on and you get a nice pure mage shield with a slight chance to parry. Use potions to raise stats, you want 80 dex to get your full parry %, 120 parry and 80 dex=35block, bushido is 40% w/ 2 handed weapon. You can run lower dex for lower parry %, any parry helps vs none but the best use of the character would be to get 80 dex

 

[icm420]

Appreciate the advice thus far. A technical question for you - at what dex does Parry work? Is 80 the minimum I need? I will probably raise dex to that range anyway, but just wanted to know for future builds.

Since my parry is 110 (including +10 from Hephaestus), I will probably lower it to around 80 - and put the extra 20 points in Resist. Then maybe get more resist from crafted jewels and pooh-pooh the idea of using Crystaline ring. I'm hoping that if I were to get into the 100 to 110 range for resist, it would atleast make me more viable. The 60 I put in there now was really just because I happened to have 60 resist on a stone and had 60 free skill points. So figured if the shoe fits...

Another question: is it necessary to have both tactics and eval at 110/120? I use fencing and magery pretty evenly. Just was curious if this is an area where I could lower a few points to put elsewhere without compromising too much in terms of damage.



Advice taken - per above, I will take the advice and raise resist. Not exactly sure if I will be able to get it to the 115 range though. Hopefully will still be enough of a noticable improvement if I were to get into the 100/110 area.

for any mage you want eval at 120 it's your basis for damage

tactics for fencing is debatable.. you want 35s on AIs.. this usually means investing points but you maybe ok with a lot of DI. Honestly hitting 35s seems a lot easier then it used to be.

i say 100 resist is fine, but this depends on the server also.. the server i'm on currently i would run no resist and feel confident as there are hardly any mages, but certain servers like GL you can't play without 120 resist.

i wouldn't normally say this but is there a reason you have 100 nox? I recall changes to poison not long ago but isn't it almost the same as 80? I thought the formula was still the same magery+poison=200 for deadly psn fields

 

[CorwinXX]

I think 100 tactics is enough... may be even 90.
If you have 100 parry you get addition 5% chance to block so I suggest to have exactly 100 parrying (with bonus from items).

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Yes I do believe it's 200 for deadly poison fields. I'd follow the above advise and not use +parry on a shield unless you're facing that incompetent of people that they do not know how to disarm you. I'd say at least go with 100 parrying and 80 dexterity as someone mentioned. It should work out to about 30% parrying chance with shield and 17% with a weapon. If you went say 110 and 90 it improves your chance by about 3% no other calculations being involved, like...who you are fighting.

 

[Merlin]

Parrying effectiveness is reduced below 80 Dex. You need 80 and above to not be penalized. Check the equation for parrying on UO Stratics under combat related and you can see how Dex affects your chance to block.

Raising my dexterity to 80 is my first priority before I can do much else here it seems. Having played again tonight, the slow swing rate I have is just too much to overcome until I change dex.

just a suggestion..
the heph shield is not very good for parry mages, look for a reactive paralyze shield if you plan to run a parry mage.. the heph shield is for nox OR scribe mages that usually have 20-40 points left over. throw the heph shield on and you get a nice pure mage shield with a slight chance to parry. Use potions to raise stats, you want 80 dex to get your full parry %, 120 parry and 80 dex=35block, bushido is 40% w/ 2 handed weapon. You can run lower dex for lower parry %, any parry helps vs none but the best use of the character would be to get 80 dex

I will make Getting a reactive para shield is my next priority. I don't see any on SearchUO or Vendor search at the moment (I'm on ATL). Are their any arty shields that have it other than an Boura Tail Shield?

Yes I do believe it's 200 for deadly poison fields. I'd follow the above advise and not use +parry on a shield unless you're facing that incompetent of people that they do not know how to disarm you. I'd say at least go with 100 parrying and 80 dexterity as someone mentioned. It should work out to about 30% parrying chance with shield and 17% with a weapon. If you went say 110 and 90 it improves your chance by about 3% no other calculations being involved, like...who you are fighting.

I will keep my parry over 100 for now. It should be much better once I get my dex up.

In regards to this whole "you only need 80 posison" thing - am I to understand that have 100 poison and 120 magery has the same chance of getting deadly poison when casting the Poison spell or using Infectious Strike that have 80 poison and 120 magery does?


I appreciate all the advice so far. I will continue the questions as I work the template. Thanks!

 

[Diomedes Artega]

Let's address these questions one at a time. Poisoning for casting poison fields and poisoning for applying it to a blade are not the same thing.

1. Poisoning level works like this. (Magery + Poisoning Skill ) /2 The result will equal regarding this table:
A. <65.1 = level 1
B. 65.1 to 85 = level 2
C. 85.1 to 99.9 = level 3
D. 100.0 = level 4.

2. Using infectious strike is attributed to say a warrior/scoundrel skill. It doesn't account for your magery skill. In fact, it does not care about it at all. It goes off of your poison skill and taking into account your primary weapon skill (once again, not magery).
A. 0.0 to 19.9 = level 1, a a chance for level 2.
B. 20.0 to 39.9 = level 2, a chance for level 3
C. 40.0 to 59.9 = level 3, chance for level 4
D. 60.0 to 100.0 = level 4, with a chance for level 5

So when you hit someone with infectious strike, your poisoning skill at the time and the level of poison applied will be what matter. Not your magery skill. That is a fact.

Last but not least, the above formula only applies to mages. e.g., You can't go say fencing 120 + poisoning / 2 to apply equation 1. It just does not work.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

In regards to this whole "you only need 80 posison" thing - am I to understand that have 100 poison and 120 magery has the same chance of getting deadly poison when casting the Poison spell or using Infectious Strike that have 80 poison and 120 magery does?


I appreciate all the advice so far. I will continue the questions as I work the template. Thanks!

To answer your question yes you're correct based on the formula that I provided. Only difference would be to cast lethal poisoning. Would that be worth it?

Against a mage, if they get arch cure off, that solves it.

If a player is using pots, you may have a hey-day with them. It's just all Russian roulette, just roll the dice.

 

[icm420]

the best reactive paralyze shields come from heartwood runics, but i think you can pop it on low end saws and then imbue. I used about 5 90 use heartwood runics and ended up with approx. 5 very nice pvp mage shields, i had to enhance 2 of them to get SC however, as they rolled just FC 1.

i should say the easiest way to get powerful reactive para shields, i'm sure there is a legendary somewhere that puts the runics to shame.

sorry the lack of caps my shift key is not working well today ;/

 

[Obsidian]

the best reactive paralyze shields come from heartwood runics, but i think you can pop it on low end saws and then imbue. I used about 5 90 use heartwood runics and ended up with approx. 5 very nice pvp mage shields, i had to enhance 2 of them to get SC however, as they rolled just FC 1.

i should say the easiest way to get powerful reactive para shields, i'm sure there is a legendary somewhere that puts the runics to shame.

sorry the lack of caps my shift key is not working well today ;/

Agree with using low end runic Reforging to get just reactive paralyze on a wooden shield and then imbue. Don't forget to enhance with Bloodwood for the HPR 2 bonus.