Publish 81 tests

[Pinco]

REFINEMENTS

With 3 pieces of armor refined to increase 4 res, you can reach a 75 all res on an elf, but you will lose 30% DCI cap so you should make 3 more pieces with the DCI cap bonus to balance, and in the end you lose the res bonus to deny the DCI malus so what's the point?

If you use just 1 bonus you can see this:
- using only the DCI bonus in order to reach the cap of 95% by losing 5 in all resistances: you have used 5 armor slots and I don't see how you could reach the new cap of 95% DCI with just jewelry + 1 armor pieces that could give up to 50% (15% jewels + 20% leggings).

- using only the resistances bonus is not an option because to reach the cap of +5% to resistances cap, you must lose 50% of DCI cap, that practically takes you to -5%... that means your enemy has a 5% HCI bonus against you and you have 0 DCI.

In short only if you are a masochist you should use those refinements...

WEAPONS REVAMP

I have not much to say about that, the changes affect mostly the special attacks used on PVP so I can't say if it's good or bad, but for sure is not the great revamp that everyone was expecting...

As weapon revamp I'd expect something more substantial... here is an idea of what I mean:
Split the weapon in weapon classes: Axes, swords, daggers, polearms, maces, bows, crossbows.
Each class of weapon gain a special passive attack with a % of execution scaled with the weapon speed.
For example:
Axes: crushing blow
Swords: ignore armor
Daggers: bleed attack
Polearms: armor pierce
Maces: concussion blow
Bows: dual shot
Crossbows: paralyzing blow

That was just random, but would be a more serious revamp since every weapon will gain an extra special (even if is passive).

ARMOR REVAMP

The stamina loss reduction is a nice idea, in fact it makes the plates armor more realistic.
The LMC bonus is nice, different from the HCI bonus of wood, but still a good thing because goes over the cap and with a full studded armor you can reach 58%.

The real thing missing here is a bonus if you use a full set of the same type. As it is now, the plate armor get only 1% LMC vs the 3% of the studded, so the studded results better. I could see an advantage in using a full plate set if I get something nice in return.
For example:
- Full Plate: +10% DCI
- Full Studded: + 5% DCI
In this way you get less LMC with plate, but more overhall protection, the studded gives more LMC but less protection and both became viable for different playstyles, and also both kind of armors became competitive with the wood... The wood still be able to get HCI per pieces, but plates will get LMC and 10% DCI if you have a full set so it's a nice challenge to choose


Ok, that's almost all I could think about this publish, I hope it could be useful to improve it before it goes live

 

[Fridgster]

I disagree about the refinements. I don't think the goal should be max either. On test I was running my sampire with
85 dci with 1 or 2 resists maxed. Getting to 85 isn't too hard with reforging. (5 dci on 6 pieces would bring you to 30 dci
then 15 from conj garb, quiver and apron. Then just add 15 to each jewel and you are at 85) You lose 6 imbuing slots
however that leaves more than enough slots to make a very effective toon. At 85 dci the critters don't hit nearly as
often. (You could hit max dci if you had 2 jewels that had 20 dci)

 

[Pinco]

I disagree about the refinements. I don't think the goal should be max either. On test I was running my sampire with
85 dci with 1 or 2 resists maxed. Getting to 85 isn't too hard with reforging. (5 dci on 6 pieces would bring you to 30 dci
then 15 from conj garb, quiver and apron. Then just add 15 to each jewel and you are at 85) You lose 6 imbuing slots
however that leaves more than enough slots to make a very effective toon. At 85 dci the critters don't hit nearly as
often. (You could hit max dci if you had 2 jewels that had 20 dci)

yes, on melee attacks, but the serious critters uses specials or other kind of damage that cannot be avoided at all and having 5% less resistances is not a good thing... perhaps on pvp it could help so you can totally absorb the hit lower defense...

 

[Fridgster]

yes, on melee attacks, but the serious critters uses specials or other kind of damage that cannot be avoided at all and having 5% less resistances is not a good thing... perhaps on pvp it could help so you can totally absorb the hit lower defense...

You could still max out 2 resists (70) while maintaining 80-85% dci. Perfect example would be UV's. No magic and only hit you with
energy damage. Max energy damage to 70 while increasing dci to 85 and you have a farming machine. I don't think that a suit like
this would work on all critters, however one could certainly find a major use for it. I used to be able to handle 1 UV but if a second came
along I would find myself a little overpowered. Tried them with my new suit and had 2 on me and didn't sweat it at all. Also been playing
with the fact that I may never need parry again with dci in the 70's.

 

[CovenantX]

WEAPONS REVAMP

As weapon revamp I'd expect something more substantial... here is an idea of what I mean:
Split the weapon in weapon classes: Axes, swords, daggers, polearms, maces, bows, crossbows.
Each class of weapon gain a special passive attack with a % of execution scaled with the weapon speed.
For example:
Axes: crushing blow
Swords: ignore armor*
Daggers: bleed attack
Polearms: armor pierce
Maces: concussion blow
Bows: dual shot
Crossbows: paralyzing blow

Armor Ignore, should never be "free" IMO, but overall The idea of a % chance to proc a special without mana consumption is great... (it's pre-AoS style) except it allows you to still time your specials if you spend mana for them.

(Throwing isn't on the list though) =]

Should be % proc on tactics instead, or maybe a combination between Weapon skill & tactics, so that mages wouldn't gain a benefit with mage weapons, with less skill investment than a dexer.

It use to be 25% of your anatomy skill, also it was only two-handed weapons that had specials, before AoS.

 

[Swordsman]

Does the max DCI 45% cap still exist ? I thought the DCI80% is for countering the HLD in PvP.

 

[Fridgster]

Does the max DCI 45% cap still exist ? I thought the DCI80% is for countering the HLD in PvP.

Seems like it's working at the 95% mark still. I'll retest today while I'm testing the elimination of parry in my sampire template.

 

[Quickblade]

ARMOR REVAMP

The stamina loss reduction is a nice idea, in fact it makes the plates armor more realistic.
The LMC bonus is nice, different from the HCI bonus of wood, but still a good thing because goes over the cap and with a full studded armor you can reach 58%.

I thought the max Overcap lmc from armor evamp was 5 pieces for total of 55% lmc. I dont think it was mentionned 6 pieces for 58% lmc.

 

[Fridgster]

You know with the light that pinco has shed with his testing, and the fact that refinements could prove to be useful
in some circumstances, maybe this system isn't that bad. I speak purely pvm of course. I don't pvp so my opinion
on that would be useless to say the least. As pinco pointed out, with some critters maxing out one way causes
drawbacks that would certainly be undesirable. Also you could maybe use these to supplement skills such as parry (im hoping)
so that new character builds can be designed, and thus giving everyone more options. I know this probably isn't a popular
belief so please keep the flames on low burn

 

[CovenantX]

I thought the max Overcap lmc from armor evamp was 5 pieces for total of 55% lmc. I dont think it was mentionned 6 pieces for 58% lmc.

It is, he was probably adding an additional 3% for the 6th item in a full set.

 

[Pinco]

You could still max out 2 resists (70) while maintaining 80-85% dci. Perfect example would be UV's. No magic and only hit you with
energy damage. Max energy damage to 70 while increasing dci to 85 and you have a farming machine. I don't think that a suit like
this would work on all critters, however one could certainly find a major use for it. I used to be able to handle 1 UV but if a second came
along I would find myself a little overpowered. Tried them with my new suit and had 2 on me and didn't sweat it at all. Also been playing
with the fact that I may never need parry again with dci in the 70's.

Basically you have to use a different armor per monster type and you will need not only a set of weapons to use in different location, but also an armor set, and this is not a good thing... If you have a mage, you can have all the slayers at 0 weight AND blessed, if you are a warrior, you must take only few because of the weight AND you have to insure them. Having a different armor set will surely cost something to mages, but will be impossible for warriors because the weight will be too much :|

Other than that, you are only considering the DCI bonus proving the res bonus is totally useless

Does the max DCI 45% cap still exist ? I thought the DCI80% is for countering the HLD in PvP.

The refinements increases the DCI cap and not DCI itself...

You know with the light that pinco has shed with his testing, and the fact that refinements could prove to be useful
in some circumstances, maybe this system isn't that bad. I speak purely pvm of course. I don't pvp so my opinion
on that would be useless to say the least. As pinco pointed out, with some critters maxing out one way causes
drawbacks that would certainly be undesirable. Also you could maybe use these to supplement skills such as parry (im hoping)
so that new character builds can be designed, and thus giving everyone more options. I know this probably isn't a popular
belief so please keep the flames on low burn

Instead of DCI, I would like to see something peculiar that gives something different but desirable...
For example, what if the refinements instead of DCI and resistances could add something like the old exodus overseer barrier?
If you add an invulnerability refinement, you get a barrier that block let's say 50% of the incoming damage for 10 charges. You double click the armor to activate 1 charge and 1 charge and works for 1 attack.
Since now we have DCI and resistances as choice, we could have the barrier for melee attacks and the barrier for ranged attacks.
With a proper cooldown between each charge it could be a tasty addition
Also the barrier mod could be removed when you finish the charges so the refinements became more like a consumable, and each level of refinement could give different amount of charges, so if the invulnerability level gives 10 charges = 60 uses for a full armor.

Armor Ignore, should never be "free" IMO, but overall The idea of a % chance to proc a special without mana consumption is great... (it's pre-AoS style) except it allows you to still time your specials if you spend mana for them.

(Throwing isn't on the list though) =]

Should be % proc on tactics instead, or maybe a combination between Weapon skill & tactics, so that mages wouldn't gain a benefit with mage weapons, with less skill investment than a dexer.

It use to be 25% of your anatomy skill, also it was only two-handed weapons that had specials, before AoS.

yes, the specials are pretty random, obviously something like this requires some testing or you have a carnage in pvp

the skills trigger IMHO it's too OP... let's say swords has AI, if you manage to reach 1.25s swing speed you will be able to get it too many times...
I was thinking about 1 hit every 15-20 seconds as average random rate so it will be not too much to unbalance the game and not too rare to be useless.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

WEAPONS REVAMP

I have not much to say about that, the changes affect mostly the special attacks used on PVP so I can't say if it's good or bad, but for sure is not the great revamp that everyone was expecting...

As weapon revamp I'd expect something more substantial... here is an idea of what I mean:
Split the weapon in weapon classes: Axes, swords, daggers, polearms, maces, bows, crossbows.
Each class of weapon gain a special passive attack with a % of execution scaled with the weapon speed.
For example:
Axes: crushing blow
Swords: ignore armor
Daggers: bleed attack
Polearms: armor pierce
Maces: concussion blow
Bows: dual shot
Crossbows: paralyzing blow

That was just random, but would be a more serious revamp since every weapon will gain an extra special (even if is passive).

I will preface this post by stating that I primarily play mages in pvp, so you may choose to hold my opinion in less regard if you wish, but I still feel I should point out that random weapon "procs" are a potentially frustrating mechanic.

I have played a multitude of games with random procs and often the general consensus is against said abilities, they also will frequently lead to statement's along the lines of, "You won/I lost because your proc activated (more or less) than mine/yours...". The other extreme I have encountered is; in some games where random procs are such a commonly used mechanic is that players are coerced (avoiding the word forced, because people jump all over it) into maximizing procs in order to maximize their damage per second, which still leads towards the comments I mentioned, and is in my opinion at the very least a quite tedious endeavor.

I am all in favor of some additional benefits (or weapon revamping), but would strongly urge the reconsideration of any random "proc" like abilities. All I am hoping for is some control over the mechanics used by me/against me in pvp, it leads to more skilled combat, and I am always thankful for it when defeated by my opponents.

I certainly fondly remember the good old days of UO, but to add back in random passive abilities, and still let us use all our activated specials, I can already picture the chaos I could unleash... *If I was lucky enough for RNG to favor me that is...*

 

[Fridgster]

Basically you have to use a different armor per monster type and you will need not only a set of weapons to use in different location, but also an armor set, and this is not a good thing... If you have a mage, you can have all the slayers at 0 weight AND blessed, if you are a warrior, you must take only few because of the weight AND you have to insure them. Having a different armor set will surely cost something to mages, but will be impossible for warriors because the weight will be too much :|

Other than that, you are only considering the DCI bonus proving the res bonus is totally useless

Honestly I actually do have different armor sets for different critter types. And I'll concede the point on the resists.

I don't think that this setup will be for every instance of battle (and to be honest I think it would be overpowered if it did), I do however see some use in it. Now the question is, does
the benefits from this new system warrant the work put into it by the devs?

 

[Pinco]

Honestly I actually do have different armor sets for different critter types. And I'll concede the point on the resists.

I don't think that this setup will be for every instance of battle (and to be honest I think it would be overpowered if it did), I do however see some use in it. Now the question is, does
the benefits from this new system warrant the work put into it by the devs?

Honestly? with all the possible additions this is certainly the worst choice
I mean, they know what the player want, they surely know what they need, but they keep doing something else... probably because they like to surprise the people, but with systems like that the only reaction you get is:

 

[chise2]

REFINEMENTS

With 3 pieces of armor refined to increase 4 res, you can reach a 75 all res on an elf, but you will lose 30% DCI cap so you should make 3 more pieces with the DCI cap bonus to balance, and in the end you lose the res bonus to deny the DCI malus so what's the point?

If you use just 1 bonus you can see this:
- using only the DCI bonus in order to reach the cap of 95% by losing 5 in all resistances: you have used 5 armor slots and I don't see how you could reach the new cap of 95% DCI with just jewelry + 1 armor pieces that could give up to 50% (15% jewels + 20% leggings).

- using only the resistances bonus is not an option because to reach the cap of +5% to resistances cap, you must lose 50% of DCI cap, that practically takes you to -5%... that means your enemy has a 5% HCI bonus against you and you have 0 DCI.

In short only if you are a masochist you should use those refinements...

WEAPONS REVAMP

I have not much to say about that, the changes affect mostly the special attacks used on PVP so I can't say if it's good or bad, but for sure is not the great revamp that everyone was expecting...

As weapon revamp I'd expect something more substantial... here is an idea of what I mean:
Split the weapon in weapon classes: Axes, swords, daggers, polearms, maces, bows, crossbows.
Each class of weapon gain a special passive attack with a % of execution scaled with the weapon speed.
For example:
Axes: crushing blow
Swords: ignore armor
Daggers: bleed attack
Polearms: armor pierce
Maces: concussion blow
Bows: dual shot
Crossbows: paralyzing blow

That was just random, but would be a more serious revamp since every weapon will gain an extra special (even if is passive).

ARMOR REVAMP

The stamina loss reduction is a nice idea, in fact it makes the plates armor more realistic.
The LMC bonus is nice, different from the HCI bonus of wood, but still a good thing because goes over the cap and with a full studded armor you can reach 58%.

The real thing missing here is a bonus if you use a full set of the same type. As it is now, the plate armor get only 1% LMC vs the 3% of the studded, so the studded results better. I could see an advantage in using a full plate set if I get something nice in return.
For example:
- Full Plate: +10% DCI
- Full Studded: + 5% DCI
In this way you get less LMC with plate, but more overhall protection, the studded gives more LMC but less protection and both became viable for different playstyles, and also both kind of armors became competitive with the wood... The wood still be able to get HCI per pieces, but plates will get LMC and 10% DCI if you have a full set so it's a nice challenge to choose


Ok, that's almost all I could think about this publish, I hope it could be useful to improve it before it goes live

You can only get 55% lmc only 5 pieces count. Also the stamina protection in plate is noticeably better then it is in studded so I don;t think metal armor needs any additional benefits. I am not against your idea though.

Not really a fan of random procs think it would just lead to problems especially in pvp. Also I think you may have missed that bows and such have a 550 imbue cap not and two handed weapons have a 600 imbue cap so that is pretty big too. I do think however that some of them especially the really slow melee weapons either need their speed bumped up a little more or base damage bumped up just a little bit more.

 

[Pinco]

You can only get 55% lmc only 5 pieces count. Also the stamina protection in plate is noticeably better then it is in studded so I don;t think metal armor needs any additional benefits. I am not against your idea though.

Not really a fan of random procs think it would just lead to problems especially in pvp. Also I think you may have missed that bows and such have a 550 imbue cap not and two handed weapons have a 600 imbue cap so that is pretty big too. I do think however that some of them especially the really slow melee weapons either need their speed bumped up a little more or base damage bumped up just a little bit more.

the weapon thing is just a viable example of serious revamp, there can be several other options ... another example could be this one:

always by keeping weapon class, we can assign to every class a different way to cause damage...
Axes already cause extra damage if you have lumberjacking so I think could be enough
Polearms could damage all the enemies in the frontal arc
Maces could cause a splash damage
Bows/crossbows could have a chance to pierce the target and the arrow could continue its trajectory to another nearest enemy (if there is one in the trajectory obviously)
Swords could have a chance to decapitate the target when he reaches 5% hp (something like word of death)

Remember that this game lacks of randomness, it's everything predictable... spawn locations, loots, fighting style, ecc.. to get more reality we need more randomness, the less the game is predictable more is fun.
Speaking of pvm, if you go to kill the dread horn, you already know what its going to do, and you know how to react to that action. What if there could happen some fatality? here is some example of randomness during the fight:
- your fingers slips and you have been disarmed.
- your enemy has been distracted for a second and you deal a devastating blow.
- a meteorite falls through the sky and hit you and your opponent.
- your opponent is panicking and is fleeing (and I mean serious fleeing like the dispel evil spell effect)
and so on... but this has not much to do with armor and weapons, is just something fun

 

[mspossi]

the weapon thing is just a viable example of serious revamp, there can be several other options ... another example could be this one:

always by keeping weapon class, we can assign to every class a different way to cause damage...
Axes already cause extra damage if you have lumberjacking so I think could be enough
Polearms could damage all the enemies in the frontal arc
Maces could cause a splash damage
Bows/crossbows could have a chance to pierce the target and the arrow could continue its trajectory to another nearest enemy (if there is one in the trajectory obviously)
Swords could have a chance to decapitate the target when he reaches 5% hp (something like word of death)

Remember that this game lacks of randomness, it's everything predictable... spawn locations, loots, fighting style, ecc.. to get more reality we need more randomness, the less the game is predictable more is fun.
Speaking of pvm, if you go to kill the dread horn, you already know what its going to do, and you know how to react to that action. What if there could happen some fatality? here is some example of randomness during the fight:
- your fingers slips and you have been disarmed.
- your enemy has been distracted for a second and you deal a devastating blow.
- a meteorite falls through the sky and hit you and your opponent.
- your opponent is panicking and is fleeing (and I mean serious fleeing like the dispel evil spell effect)
and so on... but this has not much to do with armor and weapons, is just something fun

I honestly liked it, but I do not think the devs will have boldness to do so, I believe this would put on a pvp level really enjoyable to play

 

[Uvtha]

You could still max out 2 resists (70) while maintaining 80-85% dci. Perfect example would be UV's. No magic and only hit you with
energy damage. Max energy damage to 70 while increasing dci to 85 and you have a farming machine. I don't think that a suit like
this would work on all critters, however one could certainly find a major use for it. I used to be able to handle 1 UV but if a second came
along I would find myself a little overpowered. Tried them with my new suit and had 2 on me and didn't sweat it at all. Also been playing
with the fact that I may never need parry again with dci in the 70's.

You may need to have different suits for different high end encounters, but I think that overall with 80+ dci and 2 maxed resists you are going to be noticeably more able to tank than you are now. Spells hurt, but what really gets you in those boss type encounters is their physical attacks landing at the same time a spell does. Thats gonna happen a lot less, and if you are prepared for that specific monsters chances are that you will be little worse off than before when it does.

These changes seemed sort of cool at first but the more I think about I the less downside I'm seeing here, and I think things are easy enough as is, pvm wise.

 

[Fridgster]

These changes seemed sort of cool at first but the more I think about I the less downside I'm seeing here, and I think things are easy enough as is, pvm wise.

Not sure if I agree with you here. Sure maybe easy enough if you have a few hundred mil for the suits and equipment, however for the average
player it's just not that easy. I really don't think PVM wise this is really a game changer. It will certainly make some things easier., however as
whole I don't think it will be god mode like I originally thought. It also adds content to treasure chests and fishing, which to me is something that
needed to be done a very long time ago. I have about 400 tmaps that I might actually use now because of this publish.
Hell I haven't used my tmapper in over a year!

 

[Fridgster]

Mind you, no one knows what the drop rate is going to be on these refinements, and to me that it a major wild card.

 

[Uvtha]

Not sure if I agree with you here. Sure maybe easy enough if you have a few hundred mil for the suits and equipment, however for the average
player it's just not that easy. I really don't think PVM wise this is really a game changer. It will certainly make some things easier., however as
whole I don't think it will be god mode like I originally thought. It also adds content to treasure chests and fishing, which to me is something that
needed to be done a very long time ago. I have about 400 tmaps that I might actually use now because of this publish.
Hell I haven't used my tmapper in over a year!

I dunno. People can already solo bosses pretty easy, even without uber gears, and getting uber gears is just a matter of time. Anyway, in my opinion it should NOT be very easy to solo high end stuff. People do now, with not a whole lot of issue, and this change will just make it easier.

I too agree they should add more stuff to chests, but its not worth throwing the game out of whack for.

 

[Uvtha]

Mind you, no one knows what the drop rate is going to be on these refinements, and to me that it a major wild card.

I can't belive it will be all that low. Not much sense in implementing an "overhaul" that hardly anyone has access to.

 

[Gorbs]

Mind you, no one knows what the drop rate is going to be on these refinements, and to me that it a major wild card.

This is a good point. You could make an argument even without the system being released that having the levels for refinement is a major design fail to begin with. If I'm going to spend the time to craft a perfect piece of armor, I'm not going to use anything below the top level refinement on it. Even then it appears there will be "failures" where you end up with less than the +5 DCI or +5 resist spreads.