Now that arenas are (it would seem) finally going in, it's the right time to pitch an idea I had a little while ago.
• The Blurb Version
In brief I think that the Honor Virtue should be able to gained through PvP, and Justice should be able to gained by PvM.
• More Detail
Specifically, I want to propose the following.
A certain amount of Honor points, roughly equivalent to killing, say, a balron, should be gained from victory in a duel in one of the arenas. This proposal would be similar in outline form the original Honor Proposal from almost exactly 10 years ago.
Half of that could be gained from participating in a duel, and losing.
And I think that Justice should be gained from beefed up, like over Executioner-level, NPCs that will spawn in brigand camps and the Dungeon Wrong. They can spawn in Mini-Champ Style spawns (brigands; harder brigands; executioners; Justice-gaining champ), and their loot shouldn't be any better than normal Executioners (because they would exist almost solely to get the Justice Virtue from).
• The Explanation
Why do I propose this?
As it currently stands, the other Virtues have a Trammel/Felucca, PvM/PvP balance that strikes me as fair, and Justice and Honor don't. As it currently stands, Justice is exclusive to Fel and PvP and Honor, while not exclusive to PvM and Trammel, greatly favors a form of PvM that doesn't really belong to Fel the way that, say, champ spawn PvM (for Valor) does.
Valor can be gained in either facet and, while it's technically gained from PvM exclusively, in Fel at least PvP tends to conflate around champ spawns and champ spawn areas. Thus to get Valor in Fel you must be at considerable risk, or opportunity if you will, for random PvP.
However you can also go to various places in the Trammel rules facets and gain Valor.
Compassion? Escorts exist in Trammel, Felucca, and at least one even in Ilshenar.
Stolen items for Honesty exist in Trammel and Felucca.
Sacrifice comes from Fame; an appropriate level of Fame can be obtained, and Fame can also be sacrificed, in every facet.
Justice, however, can currently only be gained by PvP, and Honor only by a kind of PvM that can be found in Fel, but it's pretty scarce: High-end monsters that can be fought solo.
The 3 most convenient monsters to gain Honor from are, in my judgement, succubi (which to my knowledge can't be found in Fel at all outside of the Abyss champ spawn), balrons (which can be found in Fel but are scarce), and Miasma (not found in Fel at all). There's also Gnaw (Ilsh exclusive, like Miasma). I'm sure there's others, and maybe even 1 or 2 in Fel that I've forgotten about, but the point is.....Honor doesn't "belong" to Fel like it could if you could also get it from arena fights.
As to Justice....Not only do you have to PvP, which most players clearly don't want to do judging by the scanty populations in Felucca, but you have to not only win, but land the kill shot. I cannot count the number of times a red has killed himself rather than know that a Trammie like me gets Justice off of him.
The PvP-exclusive nature of Justice ensures that those most interested in this aspect of the Ultima environment will never be able to experience it.
Surely one could quite reasonably argue that Justice's associated power is Fel-exclusive, so gaining it should also be Fel-exclusive. That's not an unreasonable argument but it's countered easily as well. Under present rules, you can gain Justice simply by killing a red friend, or better yet a group of them. While that must occur in Fel I guess, it's also not quite in the PvP-centric spirit that the Justice Virtue system was conceived in. Further, how long has it been since the "paint for protection" days, and the days when the purpose of the Virtue, to reward those who guard from reds at spawn as well as those who fight the boss? For years now the more common tactic has been to have your Justice Protector be as far away from the fight as possible. While I don't know if the old practice of having the Protector hanging out in the Delucia Inn is still done, the fact that this practice existed at all shows how far from the original intent Justice has gone.
So, put Justice in Trammel, and put Honor in Felucca.
And let both sets of players have it both ways.
-Galen's player
• The Blurb Version
In brief I think that the Honor Virtue should be able to gained through PvP, and Justice should be able to gained by PvM.
• More Detail
Specifically, I want to propose the following.
A certain amount of Honor points, roughly equivalent to killing, say, a balron, should be gained from victory in a duel in one of the arenas. This proposal would be similar in outline form the original Honor Proposal from almost exactly 10 years ago.
Half of that could be gained from participating in a duel, and losing.
And I think that Justice should be gained from beefed up, like over Executioner-level, NPCs that will spawn in brigand camps and the Dungeon Wrong. They can spawn in Mini-Champ Style spawns (brigands; harder brigands; executioners; Justice-gaining champ), and their loot shouldn't be any better than normal Executioners (because they would exist almost solely to get the Justice Virtue from).
• The Explanation
Why do I propose this?
As it currently stands, the other Virtues have a Trammel/Felucca, PvM/PvP balance that strikes me as fair, and Justice and Honor don't. As it currently stands, Justice is exclusive to Fel and PvP and Honor, while not exclusive to PvM and Trammel, greatly favors a form of PvM that doesn't really belong to Fel the way that, say, champ spawn PvM (for Valor) does.
Valor can be gained in either facet and, while it's technically gained from PvM exclusively, in Fel at least PvP tends to conflate around champ spawns and champ spawn areas. Thus to get Valor in Fel you must be at considerable risk, or opportunity if you will, for random PvP.
However you can also go to various places in the Trammel rules facets and gain Valor.
Compassion? Escorts exist in Trammel, Felucca, and at least one even in Ilshenar.
Stolen items for Honesty exist in Trammel and Felucca.
Sacrifice comes from Fame; an appropriate level of Fame can be obtained, and Fame can also be sacrificed, in every facet.
Justice, however, can currently only be gained by PvP, and Honor only by a kind of PvM that can be found in Fel, but it's pretty scarce: High-end monsters that can be fought solo.
The 3 most convenient monsters to gain Honor from are, in my judgement, succubi (which to my knowledge can't be found in Fel at all outside of the Abyss champ spawn), balrons (which can be found in Fel but are scarce), and Miasma (not found in Fel at all). There's also Gnaw (Ilsh exclusive, like Miasma). I'm sure there's others, and maybe even 1 or 2 in Fel that I've forgotten about, but the point is.....Honor doesn't "belong" to Fel like it could if you could also get it from arena fights.
As to Justice....Not only do you have to PvP, which most players clearly don't want to do judging by the scanty populations in Felucca, but you have to not only win, but land the kill shot. I cannot count the number of times a red has killed himself rather than know that a Trammie like me gets Justice off of him.
The PvP-exclusive nature of Justice ensures that those most interested in this aspect of the Ultima environment will never be able to experience it.
Surely one could quite reasonably argue that Justice's associated power is Fel-exclusive, so gaining it should also be Fel-exclusive. That's not an unreasonable argument but it's countered easily as well. Under present rules, you can gain Justice simply by killing a red friend, or better yet a group of them. While that must occur in Fel I guess, it's also not quite in the PvP-centric spirit that the Justice Virtue system was conceived in. Further, how long has it been since the "paint for protection" days, and the days when the purpose of the Virtue, to reward those who guard from reds at spawn as well as those who fight the boss? For years now the more common tactic has been to have your Justice Protector be as far away from the fight as possible. While I don't know if the old practice of having the Protector hanging out in the Delucia Inn is still done, the fact that this practice existed at all shows how far from the original intent Justice has gone.
So, put Justice in Trammel, and put Honor in Felucca.
And let both sets of players have it both ways.
-Galen's player
