[Discussion] prohibing player to player transaction for cash -

[feath]

including signatures advertising or linking to sites or sales of items for real money.

see the full announcement here;
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=94132

post #13 clarifies announcement a bit.

 

[Nails Warstein]

Hence if you are a player who works hard in real life at your 40 hour a week job, and you can't afford to spend all your free time in a game to earn gold through scripting and duping, you won't get to have all the nice artifacts and craftable armor the other players have. Nope, you will just have to let the monsters kill you, lose at PvP, and wonder why your overall gaming experience sucks compared to others.

This is a fascist way of making the rich cheating players richer and the poor hard working players poorer. I know this, because I was one of them, and will probably be one again. Thanks Stratics for locking the discussion on this without considering the other point of view.

 

[Faith]

Erm, anyone can pvp just fine with a couple mills in a suit. It is not hard at all to get gold in this game. Honestly, I don't see how the richer getting richer will have any effect, as they already have more gold than they need... so adding more to their stash won't give them any bigger advantage.

Poor players can still buy gold for cash, they just have to go to a brokers website directly instead of looking around here.

 

[Nails Warstein]

Erm, anyone can pvp just fine with a couple mills in a suit. It is not hard at all to get gold in this game. Honestly, I don't see how the richer getting richer will have any effect, as they already have more gold than they need... so adding more to their stash won't give them any bigger advantage.

Poor players can still buy gold for cash, they just have to go to a brokers website directly instead of looking around here.

Oh the cheating brokers who script and dupe to make gold, and charge more for gold? That's totally fair. Thanks alot! Yeah the price of gold will go up, and a certain duping/scripting broker I know who made $18,000 on UO for the month of July should be able to make 5x that amount like the old days. Rewarding the cheaters is Stratics new policy!

 

[gjohnson5]

including signatures advertising or linking to sites or sales of items for real money.

see the full announcement here;
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=94132

post #13 clarifies announcement a bit.

I disagree with it as it is simply yet another work-around and does not put the onus on Ea-Mythic to fix their game. Why don't they just admit that they cannot fix thier game instead of making the players always change thier habits

If this game were like real life, this would be the most fascist world ever thought of. Honest players constantly giving up civil liberties due to the organizations inability to solve anything....

 

[Leto]

Hurray! This is great news and I fully support the decision. Cash-trades are the bane of UO and I'm glad Stratics no longer facilitates it.

 

[Faith]

People are EXTREMELY good at generalizing things.

It's pathetic how you rely on gold to do anything in this game. When I came back to UO in the middle of AoS, I had nothing and pvped just fine with the weakish armor parts (compared to everyone else) that were supplied to me by friends.

Skill will always be on top of items, you just need to get skill first.

 

[Nails Warstein]

People are EXTREMELY good at generalizing things.

It's pathetic how you rely on gold to do anything in this game. When I came back to UO in the middle of AoS, I had nothing and pvped just fine with the weakish armor parts (compared to everyone else) that were supplied to me by friends.

Skill will always be on top of items, you just need to get skill first.

how many other people besides faith agree SKILL as a naked player can easily defeat other Players in expensive gear during PVP? I must be playing a different game, or suck on my expensive computer with two graphic cards in SLI RAID configuration.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

This is a decision by Stratics to not allow real life transactions on their website. It has nothing to do with EA. The decision has most likely been taken considering the epidemic of cheaters using Stratics to promote their $ transactions in recent times.

This also means that you are not allowed to post items for sale for $ or bid in $ on this forum as soon as it is applied.

 

[FisherNap]

This is not meant to condemn this decision, however, it is relevant:

This new policy will hurt UO Stratics' place as a center of the rares trading world.

Rare items have always changed hands by means of the cash-for-pixels method, largely because collectors (not merchants) have no interest in selling whilst they are active in the game, and only wish to liquidate when they quit. Obviously they have no further need for gold at that time.

Also, while gold inflation is unavoidable, cash prices tend to be more or less stable over the years, as they are not so much tied in to the actual gold value of the item but rather to the actual monetary limit as to what someone would spend on a virtual item.

Unlike the majority of UO players who are not serious collectors and can get by with the gold that hunting monsters provides, rare collectors must deal with the realities of the market, which are that many items are only traded hands by the use of real money. You want that one-of-a-kind artifact, you'd better pay for it. Almost every collector has delved into real world sales, be it as a buyer or seller or both.

Rares will still be bought and sold for cash as long as the game stays alive, though it won't be in this forum.


Wyatt of Catskills, retired

 

[FisherNap]

how many other people besides faith agree SKILL as a naked player can easily defeat other Players in expensive gear during PVP? I must be playing a different game, or suck on my expensive computer with two graphic cards in SLI RAID configuration.

I remember a time when a skilled naked mage with a fast connection could take on 3 seasoned fighters and win every time.

However this was many many years ago. Before artifacts, before item blessing, before fast-cast, before mages could benefit from wearing items, before powerscrolls, before weapon skills, etc.

UO is item based and has been so for about 5 years now.


Wyatt of Catskills, retired

 

[Kaj]

I think this is a very very bad change.

While I can understand that some people frown upon RMT (real money trading), the general opinion seems to be that it is okay. Would it be a $1b/year industry if it was so repelling? No, many many people spend RL cash on a game, because certain things in a game (be it currency, items or accounts) symbolise an effort. An amount of hours put into a game. This effort is worth something in real life currency obviously. And because someone might disagree with RMT being a bad thing, I don't think it's justified to force this opinion on others.

Stratics is the biggest Ultima Online forums and best ways of communication. If you ban threads/posts about RMT on Stratics that means you lose all sense of control. It will be impossible to see which sellers are reliable and which aren't. If I get scammed I can't post about it here, the scammer can just keep on scamming.
If I had found him via a topic here I would be able to comment. Same the other way around, but in a positive sense. If someone is a good and legitimate trader I would be able to make others aware and prevent them from being scammed.

The shocking thing is that no proper explanation is given on why it's suddenly banned. I think it's hard to understand this way and will drive people away from uo.stratics.com.

 

[Kaj]

This is a decision by Stratics to not allow real life transactions on their website. It has nothing to do with EA. The decision has most likely been taken considering the epidemic of cheaters using Stratics to promote their $ transactions in recent times.

This also means that you are not allowed to post items for sale for $ or bid in $ on this forum as soon as it is applied.

So basically that means if I want to sell a rare item but also want to offer people the opportunity to pay in RL cash I can't offer it up for sale here?

That means that 80% of the big traders can't sell anything via the rares forum anymore, since cash is as common a currency as gold.

 

[Faith]

how many other people besides faith agree SKILL as a naked player can easily defeat other Players in expensive gear during PVP? I must be playing a different game, or suck on my expensive computer with two graphic cards in SLI RAID configuration.

If you read my post, I was obviously referring to someone who has items that aren't worth 500million in their suit can easily take on someone with 5 event items if they've got skill. Hence SKILL over ITEMS.

 

[Chaosy]

If you read my post, I was obviously referring to someone who has items that aren't worth 500million in their suit can easily take on someone with 5 event items if they've got skill. Hence SKILL over ITEMS.

I was going to reply to this... but what's the point? What's done is done, and I think it's a bad decision myself since it kills off a big part of the trading community from these forums.

*misses the simpler times when people just used uomarket to trade*
Too bad that website got a name change and taken over by ****s

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

So basically that means if I want to sell a rare item but also want to offer people the opportunity to pay in RL cash I can't offer it up for sale here?

That means that 80% of the big traders can't sell anything via the rares forum anymore, since cash is as common a currency as gold.

Quite frankly, a lot of the trading still happens in gold despite the recent surge in *cash only* trades which are downright ridiculous (in my personal opinion).

Besides, people can always make other arrangements regarding payments off-forum. This move chiefly hurts direct gold sales.

 

[Lady Aalia]

this is a good thing, since its aimed mainly at the gold sellers and not rares dealers.

Now if you still insist paying $$ for an item contact the buyer and ask him but i am sick of people underbidding each other on who sells the lowest millions.

its a game for crying out loud your not investing in a picasso...

 

[feath]

i was told by a broker, that 90% of the brokers got banhammered. i was told that when the brokers get back, gold will be sold at about 2.50 per mil.

Remember when the bag of sending got messed up? the gold scripters/brokers bumped their prices up, because they weren't getting as much. it went up to, um, $2.-$2.50 or so...

THEN the players who had money started selling it. at $1.50-1.75. and the broker prices dropped to match it... then it dropped to compete with the players. it had to. and the players went down to $1=1m. scripter/brokers went down as low as .70c per m trying to get business.

now. the brokers will be back with 2.50ish prices on gold. and the players can not advertise here to compete with that. The players were driving the prices on gold. That power has been taken away from us.

sure looks like the scripters/brokers are going to win this round.

 

[Vahne]

I think it's a good change. I'm assuming transactions related to cash could still be worked on out PMs? Most of the rares transactions I ever dealt with were finalized through pm or icq anyway. If i understand this correctly, all you have to say is "selling two story statue. Contact me through PM or icq to make offers, ask questions, etc." You just have to think about your wording a bit more. Seriously, this will not really affect rares trading on this forum whatsoever, and since this is the rares trading forum, not the cash for gold forum, that's my only concern here.

 

[yanaki2]

cash trading is the bane of uo? dont make me laugh, if it wasnt for the outside economy this game would have been gone a long long time ago.If you were around when ebay killed off the uo auctions you would have seen the rather large chunk of the population leave.all this does is eliminate the smaller people who traditionally would be the more honest group , in favor of the established brokers and websites . yes there are a few bad seeds that ruin it for everyone else i understand that. chalk up another self serving descision. on the bright side gold value will go up as the brokers will get the opportunity to raise there prices, by the way how much of the cut is stratics getting from this move? ohh im sorry i cant talk about money now can i?

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

Admins get 4 cents per million sold by major websites.
Moderators get 1 cents per million, except for me. I get 2 cents because I am special.

We believe in transparency. Hope that helps.

 

[THP]

This is awesome news!!!!! totally awesome news!!!!

I think the someone adverting at $0.50/ million finally broke the cammels back!! LOL

OH and talk like this is kinda referred to as a 'black market'... so be carefull.....

''Most of the rares transactions I ever dealt with were finalized through pm or icq anyway.''

 

[Goliath]

I applaud Stratics.

It's great that finally you can buy something with your hard earned gold rather than being outbid by rl cash. It is a growing trend to sell items for cash which in return in causing those of us who earn our gold the hard waynot able to buy them items we enjoy. The game was meant to be funded by gold alone, not RL cash. THANK YOU STRATICS.:bowdown:

 

[Crysta]

i was told by a broker, that 90% of the brokers got banhammered. i was told that when the brokers get back, gold will be sold at about 2.50 per mil.

Hopefully, when they get back, they immediately get banned again, seeing as banning is intended as permanent.

 

[Halister Marner]

Hopefully, when they get back, they immediately get banned again, seeing as banning is intended as permanent.

Quoted for truth. Keep banning them until they go to another game.

 

[Lariat]

Ok, what if I don't advertise for cash, but mention something like "If you are interested but do not have the gold, feel free to contact me about alternative arrangements" ?

 

[Lady Aalia]

Ok, what if I don't advertise for cash, but mention something like "If you are interested but do not have the gold, feel free to contact me about alternative arrangements" ?

I am sure if you mean , like doing your dishes or feeding your dragon ,sure


if you are so worried about it just add something like ...if you have Questions ICQ me, not that hard

If someone really wanting it bad enough they will contact you

 

[Crysta]

Yeah, but i'm sure if the staff figure it out you'll end up banned, even if it isn't direct. How hard is it to just take it elsewhere?

 

[Elbryan Uthador]

Yeah, but i'm sure if the staff figure it out you'll end up banned, even if it isn't direct. How hard is it to just take it elsewhere?

IF the staff figures it out. What I do on icq is my business and the business of the person who I am doing the transaction with. I don't have to take anything "else where". Stratics has the biggest concentration of Rare collectors out of any other site.



I could say "Selling Rift Stone Pillar" icq me with questions.

 

[kray2s]

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY WELL DONE STRATS ON THIS ISSUE - UO is a game and yes whilst with real life and a 40 hour a week job, its hard to compete with some other players that seem to somehow get gold by the hundreds of mills a day - It still is "JUST A GAME" you pay money each mnth to play, then your paying on top to buy pixels - I wish i had $200 dollars here and there to buy such and such a rare item - but when u sit back and think about it - you dont actually own it whether you pay in gold or cash as all property remains that of EA. So why pay r/l money for the option to loan something from EA????? - again just my opinion

how many other people besides faith agree SKILL as a naked player can easily defeat other Players in expensive gear during PVP? I must be playing a different game, or suck on my expensive computer with two graphic cards in SLI RAID configuration.

TBH mate you can have a 12 billion dollar suit - if you havent got the knowledge to use the wep in your hand or the spells in your book then your pretty much dead - just my opinion

 

[prison bound]

So why pay r/l money for the option to loan something from EA????? - again just my opinion

EA lets you play UO for free? how nice. i have to pay $14 a month... how'd you get such a nice deal?

TBH mate you can have a 12 billion dollar suit - if you havent got the knowledge to use the wep in your hand or the spells in your book then your pretty much dead - just my opinion

is nails the only one on point when it comes to the items win at pvp argument? if you can name one person who has a pvp suit worth 12 billion and hasnt 'got the knowledge' to use it, ill stop right now.... but since you cant, why do you make such a foolish argument?

no one can viably argue that skill isnt important, but you need skills and items to pvp these days, its fact. my archer took close to a billion gold to outfit for hardcore pvp, most of that in weapons alone... are weapons unnecessary in pvp? does your GM-made, exceptional crossbow beat my balanced, composite bow with 40 lightning, 38 HLD, 40 SSI and 45 DI? i certainly hope not, or i wasted the 10 heartwood kits i burned while making it

 

[Crysta]

IF the staff figures it out. What I do on icq is my business and the business of the person who I am doing the transaction with. I don't have to take anything "else where". Stratics has the biggest concentration of Rare collectors out of any other site.



I could say "Selling Rift Stone Pillar" icq me with questions.

Wouldn't hypothetically saying it in this manner be enough to get you banned cause you've pretty much said you will in the future?

 

[Elbryan Uthador]

Wouldn't hypothetically saying it in this manner be enough to get you banned cause you've pretty much said you will in the future?

Hypothetically we could be talking about how Toy Story is better than Toy Story II. Quit reading into things and looking for consipircy theories in every post . I said what I talk about on icq isn't the business of the mods or anyone not involved in whatever I happen to be talking about.

If Tomas thinks I should be banned, that is his call. Not the forum police.

 

[kray2s]

MESSAGE FOR PRISON BOUND
Heres what my (as u put it) foolish mind was thinking maybe you would like to rethink now and appologise?
But read the response first! maybe just maybe its not me thats being foolish eh????
(for anybody else this is in reply to prison bound who thought they would have a little dig at me - he picked the wrong person!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kray2s
So why pay r/l money for the option to loan something from EA????? - again just my opinion

Prison bounds reply - EA lets you play UO for free? how nice. i have to pay $14 a month... how'd you get such a nice deal?

MY REPLY - Prison bound READ THE WHOLE PARAGRAPH and dont just pick out a little of it to make your point!! My argument was AFTER PAYING YOUR SUB FEE
to make it easier heres my original statement and i even highlighted it so you cant miss the important bits -


you pay money each mnth to play, then your paying on top to buy pixels - I wish i had $200 dollars here and there to buy such and such a rare item - but when u sit back and think about it - you dont actually own it whether you pay in gold or cash as all property remains that of EA. So why pay r/l money for the option to loan something from EA????? - again just my opinion

Ok Prison Bound POINT1 clear for you now???????????????? (you treat me like an idiot, I return the favour ok!)

POINT 2: -

Quote:
Originally Posted by kray2s
TBH mate you can have a 12 billion dollar suit - if you havent got the knowledge to use the wep in your hand or the spells in your book then your pretty much dead - just my opinion

PRISON BOUNDS REPLY:-

is nails the only one on point when it comes to the items win at pvp argument? if you can name one person who has a pvp suit worth 12 billion and hasnt 'got the knowledge' to use it, ill stop right now.... but since you cant, why do you make such a foolish argument?

MY REPLY -
"lets examine how much foolishness is n this statement shall we???????

So in your words (and i highlighted it in YOUR REPLY to show where u said it!!!!! SEE ABOVE!

Ok so i cant namethe actual chars orthe people who purchased them!! but remind me i am so foolish i forgot - "How many supposed ubber pvp chars / accounts WERE FOR SALE? and for how much??????? Before EBAY and other web sites banned the sale of aforementioned items from their sites????
Point being??? you may ask - ANY and i mean ANY Tom, **** or Harry could have paid for ANY, yes ANY account with ANY and i shall repeat it again ANY Armour/ ANY items / ANY equipment!!!! -

NOW I CHALLENGE YOU PRISON BOUND Prove to me that no one has paid R/L cash for such an account as i mentioned ???? can you???? They could EASILY have paid for a 1st rate Ultra PVP account with the best equipment WITHOUT realising what they had!!!! Easily done by a little Fu*k*r who couldnt be bothered to train from scratch!!!

But then im foolish aint i prison bound??????????? nah that couldnt possibly have ever happened? OR COULD IT?


So u see mate paying r/l cash for in game items etc does have an affect on all of us!!!! and the environment around us aswell as playing a big big part in screwing with the games economy and so on and so forth!!!


PRISON BOUND - ARGUMENT PLEASE *Drum Roll*

 

[feath]

um, well, just to point out, i bought a tamer account, with uber pets, that i never use for hunting. i did try him out with a x6 gm cu, but because i hadn't trained up a tamer from scratch, i really didn't know what i was doing, and died pretty fast. i would imagine, the same thing would happen to a pvper with a 12 billion gold suit. you can have the char, the suits, the goods, but if the know how to play the char isn't there, its pretty worthless.
luckily for me, i didn't buy the account for its tamer but its a nice bonus if i ever decide to figure out how to play one.

but back on topic;
stratics is only stopping the advertisement and/or sales of RL cash for good on these boards. They aren't trying to stop cash transactions, they know they can't, so aren't trying. So, if you want RL cash for items, you talk off these boards. simple.

 

[Demonous]

i'm very glad this is taking place, i've played uo for 8 years and i do not sell my items for cash to make profit, or buy anything for cash. All of my rares i've obtained through gold that i have earned. Put the time into the game and earn it. UO is meant to be a fun game and it isn't as exciting if you just dump some cash on something and get an item, it is much more rewarding when u get things by earning them.

As for skill in game not existing any longer and UO being an item based game, i agree with this to a degree. I have fought some good people with good gear and lost to them, then i have fought some people with good gear who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag despite wearing it all... so skill does play some factor. You need to know how to use the gear.

 

[Nails Warstein]

um, well, just to point out, i bought a tamer account, with uber pets, that i never use for hunting. i did try him out with a x6 gm cu, but because i hadn't trained up a tamer from scratch, i really didn't know what i was doing, and died pretty fast. i would imagine, the same thing would happen to a pvper with a 12 billion gold suit. you can have the char, the suits, the goods, but if the know how to play the char isn't there, its pretty worthless.
luckily for me, i didn't buy the account for its tamer but its a nice bonus if i ever decide to figure out how to play one.

but back on topic;
stratics is only stopping the advertisement and/or sales of RL cash for good on these boards. They aren't trying to stop cash transactions, they know they can't, so aren't trying. So, if you want RL cash for items, you talk off these boards. simple.

How much gold did you pay for the Tamer Account?

 

[yanaki2]

so can i post " trading 4 metal die pressed goerge washington pictures per million gold "?

 

[feath]

so can i post " trading 4 metal die pressed goerge washington pictures per million gold "?

lol! im not a mod, but i'd say that was a 'no', although personally, i'd give you points for creativity!

nails; no comment

 

[Salty Pete]

Hence if you are a player who works hard in real life at your 40 hour a week job, and you can't afford to spend all your free time in a game to earn gold through scripting and duping, you won't get to have all the nice artifacts and craftable armor the other players have. Nope, you will just have to let the monsters kill you, lose at PvP, and wonder why your overall gaming experience sucks compared to others.

This is a fascist way of making the rich cheating players richer and the poor hard working players poorer. I know this, because I was one of them, and will probably be one again. Thanks Stratics for locking the discussion on this without considering the other point of view.

I have no problems playing UO without buying gold for $. Not only that, but I also have no problem playing UO without a character loaded up with 120 scrolls, high end equipment and the games most rare to own items. My overall gaming experience does not suck.

I work 50 hours+ a week.

My characters combined have maybe 200k right now. I pull in maybe 20k a night when I play... Probably a lot more if I sold the items I find along the way.

My guess is that people worried about staying ahead or at least in the hunt in the arms race to have the perfect character/equipment enjoy the game far less than I do. My "main" character has GM begging and GM fishing with no skill above 100. Yet this character is fully capable of not only staying alive but doing well in all high end content.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

I work anywhere from 40 to 60 hours a week. I also have hobbies that keep me away from UO for weeks. For instance, last year I traveled to three different continents. I do not cheat in any manner or form. Yet, I make plenty of gold and every single rare that I own or have owned is via gold purchase. I also happen to have a very strong PvP background. So, I strongly disagree with the entire "must be a power-gamer to afford a decent suit in Ultima Online" hypothesis. I also personally hold strong dislike for the seemingly rampant habit of pouring thousands of dollars to get rares and fail to see how it can be satisfying. But, its your money and your choice.

Anyhow, this thread has ran its course. The decision is not going to be reverted by Stratics, at least anytime soon. Closing it.