Problems with the "guard" command

[popps]

When I am being guarded, I noticed something odd.

If I am being aggroed, the pet guarding me intervenes and attacks the enemy.

But if this happens while the pet is already fighting an enemy, even after the target is being killed the pet does not attack the current target that is aggroing me.

I have the "guarded" label over me, and I have an enemy coming after me and red to me, but the pet stands still, just follows me around without attacking this new target.

I have to issue the kill command for the pet to attack the target because, even if I am being guarded, the pet won't attack.

Is it a bug or what ?

 

[Wenchkin]

The guard AI has never been capable of working out priorities and reacting as a player would hope the pet would. And even if it did, your priorities will change from spawn to spawn anyway. Sometimes you want the pet to switch to the latest threat, other times that threat is something you can deal with. Especially if your pet is fighting a boss of some kind and you want them to keep dealing damage. Or they would die to the combined spawn attacking them. Which is why I prefer to use kill commands and occasional stop/follow ones to control exactly what my pets fight.

If I'm in the situation where my pets are busy and something spawns or appears, I make a decision - do I want it to target my pets or is it too much for them to handle. If I want it on my pets, I take a step to the side so my pets are between me and that spawn. If I want to take it away or kill it, I'll let it target me instead.

As for whether you're describing a bug... well I don't think it is bugged. Guard AI isn't a replacement for a tamer calling the shots and taking evasive action if they get targeted while their pet(s) are busy. If 3 monsters come at you simultaneously, the AI won't figure out which is the toughest. In some cases it will decide that the half dead mongbat is a threat and ignore the balron beside it. I don't think I'd want guard to work in an intelligent way though, it would make the "all kill no skill" complaints of non tamers 100% valid

Wenchy

 

[Stickypaws]

Thats because its attacking something else. No it is not broken. It is working as intended. Did ya really have to ask the question?

 

[kitiara-atlantic]

I've seen where it takes a second after the pet kills its victim for the pet to pick its next target, and meanwhile you attract aggro yourself. But when that happens to me, it's usually because I am in the line of sight between the pet and the aggro beast. Like Wenchy said, step back when something new spawns to put your pet between it and you, such that the pet will now take the aggro.

 

[[JD]]

There are few instances where you would actually want to use guard... it's annoying to have guard on and suddenly your pets are flying across the screen because of some dumb mongbat.

Is much better to just have your pet on all stop and all follow and use macros to target nearest/next and honor attack.

 

[popps]

As for whether you're describing a bug... well I don't think it is bugged. Guard AI isn't a replacement for a tamer calling the shots and taking evasive action if they get targeted while their pet(s) are busy. If 3 monsters come at you simultaneously, the AI won't figure out which is the toughest. In some cases it will decide that the half dead mongbat is a threat and ignore the balron beside it. I don't think I'd want guard to work in an intelligent way though, it would make the "all kill no skill" complaints of non tamers 100% valid

I think I explained my findings wrongly then.

I am not lamenting my pet not attacking other enemies aggroing me while my pet is fighting something else. That I understand just fine. my pet is busy fighting because of the guard command and in that scenario (while it is busy fighting whatever aggroed me as first while I was being guarded), I would need to use the kill command, perhaps using the stop command first, in order for the pet to cease attacking the first target and switch to another one of my liking.

No, the above is not the case I am lamenting.

The case I am lamenting is this other one :

1) - I am being guarded.

2) - An enemy aggroes me, pet per the guard command attacks the target

3) - Pet kills the target (this is the important circumstance...) that is, pet is no longer busy fighting anything.....

4) - Another enemy aggroes me after the pet has killed the previous enemy (i.e., pet has all paws and claws free to be used....)

5) - I am still being labelled as guarded

6) - Pet sits idle following me around even though I am being chased by some other enemy which wants to eat me alive.

That is, I am still labeleed as being guarded, pet is not busy with anything, I am being aggroed and chased around and pet does not defend me.

This is what I lament.

 

[Sir Morder]

The guard AI has never been capable of working out priorities and reacting as a player would hope the pet would. And even if it did, your priorities will change from spawn to spawn anyway. Sometimes you want the pet to switch to the latest threat, other times that threat is something you can deal with. Especially if your pet is fighting a boss of some kind and you want them to keep dealing damage. Or they would die to the combined spawn attacking them. Which is why I prefer to use kill commands and occasional stop/follow ones to control exactly what my pets fight.

If I'm in the situation where my pets are busy and something spawns or appears, I make a decision - do I want it to target my pets or is it too much for them to handle. If I want it on my pets, I take a step to the side so my pets are between me and that spawn. If I want to take it away or kill it, I'll let it target me instead.

As for whether you're describing a bug... well I don't think it is bugged. Guard AI isn't a replacement for a tamer calling the shots and taking evasive action if they get targeted while their pet(s) are busy. If 3 monsters come at you simultaneously, the AI won't figure out which is the toughest. In some cases it will decide that the half dead mongbat is a threat and ignore the balron beside it. I don't think I'd want guard to work in an intelligent way though, it would make the "all kill no skill" complaints of non tamers 100% valid

Wenchy

I'll sum it up for ya...This is how it has always been...

 

[popps]

I've seen where it takes a second after the pet kills its victim for the pet to pick its next target, and meanwhile you attract aggro yourself. But when that happens to me, it's usually because I am in the line of sight between the pet and the aggro beast. Like Wenchy said, step back when something new spawns to put your pet between it and you, such that the pet will now take the aggro.

I am sorry, but that is a work around (to put the pet in between me and the enemy to get the pet aggroed rather than myself....).

If I am supposed to be "guarded", then the pet should respond to whatever is aggroing me and not require me to find work arounds and get the pet aggroed instead of me...

 

[Farsight]

Now this is where your game differs from mine.

In my game, the pets aren't the brightest tools, and I had to figure out just how to make them behave how I wanted them to. Having to do certain things to get a certain reaction, in my mind, isn't a workaround, but rather how it's meant to be.

And the fun is in figuring out all the rules and regulations about how, exactly, does the AI work.

The important thing to remember is that pets are stupid. They need pretty much constant interaction to do the things you want them to do. In the interest of avoiding the call of "all kill, no skill," I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Stickypaws]

Issue an all guard again?

My god that was hard....

 

[Wenchkin]

5) - I am still being labelled as guarded

6) - Pet sits idle following me around even though I am being chased by some other enemy which wants to eat me alive.

That is, I am still labeleed as being guarded, pet is not busy with anything, I am being aggroed and chased around and pet does not defend me.

This is what I lament.

Even if guard worked as you wanted it to, and your pet was to attack the spawn when it targeted you....You're still taking damage from that incoming spawn till it dies. Purely because you want to use guard rather than take a step to the side? That doesn't make sense to me. You'd end up healing yourself or casting invis when your attacker is a bit tougher especially with ranged attacks, when all you needed to do was move 1 or 2 tiles. I'd just move a step to the side and let the monster attack my pets from the start if I didn't want to fight them myself.

I am sorry, but that is a work around (to put the pet in between me and the enemy to get the pet aggroed rather than myself....).

If I am supposed to be "guarded", then the pet should respond to whatever is aggroing me and not require me to find work arounds and get the pet aggroed instead of me...

Popps, you are the tamer and controller of your pets. You tamed them and promised to take care of them, not the other way around Other templates have to actively fight spawns, and tbh tamers have a real easy ride in that respect - we have pets to stand behind if we choose. It takes very little effort to move your tamer out of harms way and actively command your pets. I'm sorry if you feel that effort is too onerous, but I'm of the opinion that the tamer should be active in working with their pets and caring for them.

Wenchy

 

[popps]

I'm sorry if you feel that effort is too onerous, but I'm of the opinion that the tamer should be active in working with their pets and caring for them.

It is not that I find it onerous to issue a fresh "kill"command or have the pet placed in between me and the target to have it aggro the pet and not me, it is only that if there is a "guard" command which finds its reason to exist having the pet respond to whatever is aggroing me well, I do not see why this "guard" command should not work more reliably.

Yes, I agree that if the pet is already busy fighting something else it should not be distracted by other enemies (i.e. the guard command should "pause" untill the current target is killed), but as soon as the current target is killed by the pet then the "guard" command should resume full activity and the pet should immediately target anything else that is aggroing me without me needing to do anything, if I am still labeled as being guarded.

My point is, if we have a "guard" command then it should be reliable and work as a guard command. I just find it inexplicable that while being guarded and aggroed by anything and my pet is no longer busy with any target, that is, it is totally free to any action, the pet instead stays idle and just follows me around while I am running (and labelled as "guarded") being chased by whatever monster wants to eat me.

 

[Wenchkin]

It is not that I find it onerous to issue a fresh "kill"command or have the pet placed in between me and the target to have it aggro the pet and not me, it is only that if there is a "guard" command which finds its reason to exist having the pet respond to whatever is aggroing me well, I do not see why this "guard" command should not work more reliably.


Yes, I agree that if the pet is already busy fighting something else it should not be distracted by other enemies (i.e. the guard command should "pause" untill the current target is killed), but as soon as the current target is killed by the pet then the "guard" command should resume full activity and the pet should immediately target anything else that is aggroing me without me needing to do anything, if I am still labeled as being guarded.

Personally I find it reliable as a support. My fisher never has any trouble using it to protect her from serpents or alerting her about pirate ships.

In a proper PvM situation though, it is far more efficient to simply use the other commands and tactics instead. Even guarded you'll find the attacking monster can do a fair bit of damage to you while the pet kills it. I find that with Molly - it still makes sense for me to pay attention for serpents and tell her pet to kill them rather than wait for the serpent to attack me and the guard to kick in.

My point is, if we have a "guard" command then it should be reliable and work as a guard command. I just find it inexplicable that while being guarded and aggroed by anything and my pet is no longer busy with any target, that is, it is totally free to any action, the pet instead stays idle and just follows me around while I am running (and labelled as "guarded") being chased by whatever monster wants to eat me.

Then I'd suggest you fill in a bug report if you feel it's broken.

Also, from limited testing - thanks Sticky! It seems that there is a fairly small range for a guarding pet to protect you. So if you are exploring a spawn and you enter the aggro range of a monster, if the pet is too far behind you then it won't jump to guard you. Repeat the same approach slower at a speed the pet does keep up and it will defend. So by keeping a pet close to you, you'll find guard works a lot better.

Test it and see. And as I said above, if you think there's a bug then just report it.

Wenchy

 

[Trixrnt4kids]

It probably goes without saying .. but in your scenario - in my experience- if you took damage from whatever it was that aggroed on you then your pet would attack it.