Preview Weekend: Disappointed

[Noun]

Disappointment, that's what this Preview Weekend/Open Beta has turned out to be. Before you read any further, let me say that I'm not disappointed in the game--I'm disappointed in you, the playerbase.

Maybe I should be more clear: step it up. I see plenty of players who are running around aimlessly, then complaining about their classes and which side is winning. For a population that boasts themselves to be the "hardcore" minority, the skill definitely isn't apparent. I get it, people are still looking for their preferred classes and feeling out the game; but why be so novice?

Scenarios are both too easy and frustrating at the same time. If I group with other players who can function, it's a steamroll. On the flipside, the amount of Rank 3s running around is getting annoying. When 80% of our groups are made up of lower ranked characters who don't have more than four abilities we shouldn't be complaining about a loss.

I guess I should be asking for the reason players are rerolling so often, you're not going to get a real feel for any of the classes until at least rank 15. That's an understatement. To be honest, I expected everyone to be done with Tier 1 this morning and that's definitely not the case. Even the end of Tier 1 PQs are empty and Tier 2 is absolutely desolate. Let's be frank, Tier 2 is where the real RvR begins and it's not much of a preview if you don't see it.

A MMORPG's playerbase has as much influence in the well being of the game as the gameplay itself. Because this is a PvP-oriented game, it's going to be a boring and one-sided ride if things continue the way they are going. I see a lot of talk that isn't being backed up by the forum goers of the Warhammer Online community. Sorry, World of Warcraft really took no skill; your experience there means nothing. For the sake of quality gameplay, prove to me and yourself that you're the skilled players you claim to be.

 

[Anathesius]

/agree

In the arenas, RAoV tried at first to be 'entire team' oriented, but soon found that the only way to go was to worry about the people in our ventrilo. Once we did that, we were consistently placing in the top 5 with 3-4 members, sometimes 5.

It all boils down to communication...I urge EVERY guild out there to REQUIRE their members to be in some type of teamspeak program while grouping. It's just plain necessary IMO.

 

[Noun]

True.

Most of the battles lost come from battles not fought. I find that players who see a group running towards them tend to back off; regardless of what support they have behind them. Unless you're outnumbered by a large margin, chances are you'll stand a better chance of doing something if you stand and fight.

As a Runepriest I have a better chance of keeping someone alive if they are standing their ground and giving me the support that I need. Not a hard concept, but one that everyone seems to forget.

 

[xyzzy30]

While everyone has a right to be disappointed, things are not as bad as they may seem.

If you have a problem with nabs on your side, group up with your guildies. If you have a problem with steamrolling nabs, attack keeps of known hardcore guilds.

If you can't do either now, wait till the game is in retail. Besides, MO and DF are around the corner, and they may yet prove to be more hardcore suited.

 

[LuNiX]

While everyone has a right to be disappointed, things are not as bad as they may seem.

If you have a problem with nabs on your side, group up with your guildies. If you have a problem with steamrolling nabs, attack keeps of known hardcore guilds.

If you can't do either now, wait till the game is in retail. Besides, MO and DF are around the corner, and they may yet prove to be more hardcore suited.

Xyzzy : Your point is the next valid one to make in the thought progression. Game too easy/not having fun? Do something else!

Mythic isn't shooting for being A game here, they're trying to be THE game. Shooting for second or satisfactory means you're not playing to win.

The problem with this statement is exactly how that thinking contradicts Noun and his complaint: if players get off on the wrong foot due to these complains, there won't be enough competition/players to fill the hardcore roles. The hardcores will have earned their slot and title just by making it to the higher levels before anybody else without any sort of merit or achievement.

This has been one of the most anticipated games I have ever come across. I understand the hype and trash talk boils and comes to a head in the next week, but unless said hardcores have given up or yet to show, very few have any room to talk. Watch ANY RvR preview video. Now watch how these players with merits, players who "review" the game CLICK TWO SKILLS over and over and then COMPLAIN about the outcomes of fights.

Let me stress the last statement. People with the authority to give FIRST IMPRESSIONS of a game, people who's FEEDBACK IN BETA shaped this game to the way it is, CLICK SKILLS IN RVR. If the majority of these "hardcores" have WoW as the first and only time they picked up an MMO, they will be sent packing back to playing something else, key turning and all.

This will only lead to two things: new players crying imbalance/ragequitting and Elites being untouchable or laughable in skill. I hold Mythic in high standard with what they feel is balanced and what players feel is balanced. I hope they don't cave and tell people to "Learn to Play" and "Working as Intended" in almost a trolling nature to complete idiots who just want I WIN buttons.

TL;DR version: At the current state of the player base, the only ones that stand out are people just looking for attention and no way to deliver. Buy a dog to watch your keep.

 

[xyzzy30]

Xyzzy : Your point is the next valid one to make in the thought progression. Game too easy/not having fun? Do something else!

Well, yes and no. WAR is marketed as being focused in massive / large-scale PvP. Together with the guild leveling system and guild Keeps it's really a must to select your friends carefully if you want to get the most out of the game. Solo play is probably going to be a bore, even - and especially - in huge PuGs. I think it's also a given that there will be people who suck and people who don't suck. Likewise, there will be guilds that suck and guilds that don't suck (all this 'suck' in terms of warband+ size organised combat). It's only logical that the ones at the top of the game will have to go out there and find tough fights or they'll get bored. It's unlikely that everyone will be a 0.1-sec-twitch-son-of-Sun-Tzu, no matter what the game.

In the end, I would do something else if a game posed no challenge and bored me.

Mythic isn't shooting for being A game here, they're trying to be THE game. Shooting for second or satisfactory means you're not playing to win.

I read an article just the other day where a target active sub figure was quoted. Can't find the bugger atm, but I seem to recall that that figure was 1M. Considering it's a tenth of the most popular sub MMO in the west (and about a fifth of the active subs that are actually *in* the west), it's not like WAR is planning to be the only kid on the block. The other thing is that if sub based MMOs are a niche, even more so are ones aimed at specific areas of the MMO market, or more precisely subscription-based, massively-pvp, organised guild combat.

The problem with this statement is exactly how that thinking contradicts Noun and his complaint: if players get off on the wrong foot due to these complains, there won't be enough competition/players to fill the hardcore roles. The hardcores will have earned their slot and title just by making it to the higher levels before anybody else without any sort of merit or achievement.

This has been one of the most anticipated games I have ever come across. I understand the hype and trash talk boils and comes to a head in the next week, but unless said hardcores have given up or yet to show, very few have any room to talk. Watch ANY RvR preview video. Now watch how these players with merits, players who "review" the game CLICK TWO SKILLS over and over and then COMPLAIN about the outcomes of fights.

- Beta and PW aren't the whole retail playerbase.
- Much of the selection to beta and PW is not merit based.
- Hardcore players may not actually be the majority.

The industry should be aware of clicking, whining nabs not being the most accurate source of feedback, whether it's through bug reports, beta feedback or forums. It's up to the devs to filter out the crap and stay true to what they're developing. No dev will blindly listen to 12yos hurling abuse at them because they can't click on Rend while mouse-turning.

Let me stress the last statement. People with the authority to give FIRST IMPRESSIONS of a game, people who's FEEDBACK IN BETA shaped this game to the way it is, CLICK SKILLS IN RVR. If the majority of these "hardcores" have WoW as the first and only time they picked up an MMO, they will be sent packing back to playing something else, key turning and all.

This will only lead to two things: new players crying imbalance/ragequitting and Elites being untouchable or laughable in skill. I hold Mythic in high standard with what they feel is balanced and what players feel is balanced. I hope they don't cave and tell people to "Learn to Play" and "Working as Intended" in almost a trolling nature to complete idiots who just want I WIN buttons.

I just can't see any development house realistically aiming for a half-decent game to be narrow-minded enough to fall for a few tears.

TL;DR version: At the current state of the player base, the only ones that stand out are people just looking for attention and no way to deliver. Buy a dog to watch your keep.

I like dogs, I think I'll tame a really vicious wild dog instead of buying a guard dog, just because it's more challenging

 

[Noun]

Keep in mind that I did take into account that this is Preview Weekend and this is Open Beta.

For months (years? ) we've been reading forum posters say how hardcore they are and how skilled they were. If you call yourself skilled or hardcore, you should be able to adapt to any character regardless of the situation instead of whining about it. It's been two days and even the "higher" ranks are still dumb as rocks; "skilled" individuals should be able to adapt within minutes, if not seconds. But, what do I see in both scenarios and RvR-lakes? Players staring into space.

Balance this, balance that, every class so far has its capability to do good and bad. I see people complain that leveling was too fast, now it's too slow. I see players running into battles alone, and then complaining they have no heals. I see healers trying to dps, then complain they have no tank. Mythic is acknowledging playerbase complaints; the more their made, the more they are going to comply.

Lunix hit it on the head, the "authorities" are clicking right now when it takes two seconds to memorize where your hotkeys are--afterall, you set them yourselves. Unfortunately, micromanagement isn't everyone's strong point and it shows here. It's the same as any other MMO, don't see why it's so evident in this one.

I'm being personal because I want to get under everyone's skin. I want to see and play with/against the "skilled" players and not play Pokemon with them. :gun:

 

[LuNiX]

Xyzzy: Its replys like yours that promote my train of thought. Making attempts to be witty further explain my point, specificly how you contradict yourself by trying to argue against my points.

Nobody forces players to sign up for beta. Only people who want to be in throw themselves into the pool. Nobody forces them to critique a product that isn't complete. Betas might not make up the playerbase, but they make up the more interested and dedicated playerbase. Most casual gamers wait until launch, then wait another month or so for the bugs and overpopulation to even out before they even purchase a copy. Casuals don't spend hundreds of dollars on gigantic boxes, run blogs, write news footers, or capture and edit video. Casuals also don't make incoherent posts with horrid formatting.

Once again it goes by to my original post: if you subscribe to the "Wait til retail" network, why are you griping on the forums before the game launches? xD

 

[xyzzy30]

Betas might not make up the playerbase, but they make up the more interested and dedicated playerbase.

[...]

Once again it goes by to my original post: if you subscribe to the "Wait til retail" network, why are you griping on the forums before the game launches? xD

I'm going to have to disagree on the first point. I haven't been following the promoting methods of the WAR OB, but for example AoC's PW/OB was advertised on Failplanet, and it was just as available to all its members, even the ones that might have thought 'oh look, never heard of that game b4, but it sounds interesting *click*'.

On the second point I can't personally comment, since I'm not part of the 'wait till release' crowd. I'd love to have been in the beta from the get-go, even the alpha. Alas, I haven't had the opportunity to have a decent PC and broadband net connection available to me at the same time, so I haven't had any reason to ever try to get in.

 

[Noun]

I'm going to have to disagree on the first point. I haven't been following the promoting methods of the WAR OB, but for example AoC's PW/OB was advertised on Failplanet, and it was just as available to all its members, even the ones that might have thought 'oh look, never heard of that game b4, but it sounds interesting *click*'.

On the second point I can't personally comment, since I'm not part of the 'wait till release' crowd. I'd love to have been in the beta from the get-go, even the alpha. Alas, I haven't had the opportunity to have a decent PC and broadband net connection available to me at the same time, so I haven't had any reason to ever try to get in.

WAR's OB is only for pre-orders.

 

[Maylox]

What I have seen, and this is not meant as a personal attack on any 1 person, is that we have a lot of WoW leetist coming here thinking that they know how to RvR. This isn't wow and the old PvP tactic you used in the sorry excuse for pvp that wow had will not work in an RvR setting. Ihave tried all of the classes between the first PW and then this laster PW weekend and then the open beta. I have found certain classes to be way over powered at teh moment but all in all I can not complain one little bit about how the game plays or the classes work. War needs to become a NO WHINERS area. If you are crying about the game go back to wow and their boring end game. Leave the real RVR to the big kids. Just my 2 cents.

 

[siliconsmiley23]

I had a pretty good thing going on last night on a public quest. Seemed there were a few players there that knew what was going on. I ended up doing the thing about 5 times.

I think the OP was being a little critical of people who may be trying to bind their keys or something.

 

[Noun]

Naw, I was trying to get people out of T1 and into T2 and start showing their true abilities so some real gameplay can start.

It worked.

 

[Maylox]

Why go jump into tier 2 play tho when what your playing gets dumped on sunday(for collectors) and the 16th (for regular preorders)? I am purposely staying in tier 1 so that when I roll a toon that is not going to get deleted everything after tier 1 wll be new and fresh and exciting. Not ragging on those who went to tier 2 turst me. I am aching to see what that is like but I can wait until sunday to start down that road.

 

[siliconsmiley23]

Sweet. This is my second day. Pardon my ignorance. What's tier 2?

 

[Noun]

Why go jump into tier 2 play tho when what your playing gets dumped on sunday(for collectors) and the 16th (for regular preorders)? I am purposely staying in tier 1 so that when I roll a toon that is not going to get deleted everything after tier 1 wll be new and fresh and exciting. Not ragging on those who went to tier 2 turst me. I am aching to see what that is like but I can wait until sunday to start down that road.

Tier 1 RvR consists of Battle Objectives and Scenarios. Tier 2 RvR has Keeps, Battle Objectives and Scenarios. Keep play is one of the bigger selling points of this game, not to mention the first 11 levels breeze by within a couple hours. You really don't get to see what classes can do until mid Tier 2 anyways, what's the point in staying in Tier 1 other than it takes mindless playing?

Tier 2 are zones for players 11-21.

 

[SventMF]

What I have seen, and this is not meant as a personal attack on any 1 person, is that we have a lot of WoW leetist coming here thinking that they know how to RvR. This isn't wow and the old PvP tactic you used in the sorry excuse for pvp that wow had will not work in an RvR setting.

point, match, win, to the gamers. 1 loss to WoW heads (which doesnt matter cause there are so many already)..... the real players will be coming from DaoC because its the only game that has ever been released to compare to this sort of play style

 

[Noun]

point, match, win, to the gamers. 1 loss to WoW heads (which doesnt matter cause there are so many already)..... the real players will be coming from DaoC because its the only game that has ever been released to compare to this sort of play style

Even the DAoC players haven't been that impressive...and it's retail.

 

[Skycapp]

Based off of past experience it will probably be a good 2 or 3 weeks before we see any real RvR going on. People are still learning their classes and getting organized.

On the more populated servers it will happen faster since there is more overflow and need to spread out, but I wouldn't expect any truly epic RvR for a few weeks.