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[Discussion] Prepatch White Wyrm - Great Stats

Kel'Thuzard

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Clearing out my stables, entertaining selling this beast of a WW. This is a pure white, gold eating, max STR, max HP, low cold, prepatch WW. First round training has been started, but is only at 48%, so no biggie.

Due to the craziness of a recent thread regarding a Prepatch WW, I'll go ahead and set the price of this guy to 300m OBO to save the thread from what that one became. Yes the price is high. If you offer 300 I'll take it. If you offer something lower that I'm interested in I'll let you know. If nobody offers enough I'll hold onto it and sell it for much more when they're rarity has increased.

ww.jpg
 

Keith of Sonoma

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Due to the craziness of a recent thread regarding a Prepatch WW
The craziness in that one thread was pretty much due to 1 person, who has also been involved in "drama" regarding other pets for sale. The PP WW's don't sell for anything even close to the price that person bid it up to, and then backed out of. (It's not the 1st time it's happened either)

I would love to own another PP WW, and have zero problem bidding at the fair "market value"but 300M would be a little over 3X the amount I, and several others, have bought them for recently, and prices are dropping, not going up. FYI, when the 3 slot PP dragons again become "trainable" I suspect you will see the price on the WW's drop even more. Just my opinion, but a valid one I think. If you really want to sell this pet please let me know.
 
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Kel'Thuzard

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The craziness in that one thread was pretty much due to 1 person, who has also been involved in "drama" regarding other pets for sale. The PP WW's don't sell for anything even close to the price that person bid it up to, and then backed out of. (not for the 1st time )

I would love to own another PP WW, but 300M would be a little over 3X the amount I, and others, have bought them for recently, and prices are dropping, not going up. FYI, when the 3 slot PP dragons again become "trainable" I suspect you will see the price on the WW's drop even more. Just my opinion, but a valid one I think. If you really want to sell this pet please let me know.
The pet is for sale. See OP for price. Your dragons will never become trainable, just like all pets stuck at 4 slots now (Cu's for example) will forever stay 4 slots. You assume Broadsword will put in efforts to "fix things" which does not happen unless it's game-breaking, and 3 slot dragons are not that.
 

Lex Darion

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
The pet is for sale. See OP for price. Your dragons will never become trainable, just like all pets stuck at 4 slots now (Cu's for example) will forever stay 4 slots. You assume Broadsword will put in efforts to "fix things" which does not happen unless it's game-breaking, and 3 slot dragons are not that.
Actually. Wall of text coming.

Patch 98. Dragons worked fine to train, but there were a number of exploits to increase/decrease HP, MANA.
You could lower your pet slots unaturally. (You couldnt make a 3 slot fresh tame dragon into a prepatch this way, as the calculation would change the slots to 4 slot . But at least prepatch dragons could be trained).

Then patch 99 was about to hit. When dragons first became untrainable was to prevent them from being broken by accidental slot jump.
Bleak and Mesanna didnt know they even slot-jumped when we showed it to her just a few days before the patch release.

The quick fix was to make them untrainable at all and all the drama ensued from people thinking they wouldnt ever be trainable again.

Patch 100 , they re-enable training on dragons and add a WARNING MESSAGE that it jumps slot. But they dont need to make them entirely untrainable.
So people who want to train can do it if they wish to. But they are warned it jumps a slot.


Why is dragons still jumping slots?
We've had discussion with Bleak/Mesanna about prepatch dragons. No word yet on when it will happen, but the problem is they dont seem to have all data on what makes a dragon prepatch .
One thing that complicates things was a new exploit that popped up where you could raise STR of pets . Not going to say how it was done, but lets just say I saw cu sidhes with 2000 str.
I could suspect some dragons were fubbed this way too. So for PP ww's I cant say for sure why they dont jump slots but Im suspecting it has to do with checking for an old script that prepatch WW had. It's pretty easy to figure out if it is PP... Why? Well... It can eat gold if it is an old one!
If it's an old one, they have a check psuedo code: IF <= 760STR , make immune to slot jump.

Now, once Broadsword has identified a sure way to find out which dragons have been fubbed to look like prepatch dragons. I wouldnt doubt they can re-enable it.
Or they are simply waiting out anyone who fubbed a dragon to have 825str to give up and clear it out from stables, then eventually in future when they are sure the str/hp/mana fubbing exploits are fixed. They re-enable non-slot jumping.

I still have a legit PP ww that is ready at slot 4 with training all done, so I can just assign points. I think that's my rarest pet atm :)
 

Khaelor

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Actually. Wall of text coming.

Patch 98. Dragons worked fine to train, but there were a number of exploits to increase/decrease HP, MANA.
You could lower your pet slots unaturally. (You couldnt make a 3 slot fresh tame dragon into a prepatch this way, as the calculation would change the slots to 4 slot . But at least prepatch dragons could be trained).
Actually, you don't know quite what you are talking about. ;)

Patch 97, Dragons were able to trained, but they would slot jump when you initiated training.

Patch 98, Dragons were able to be trained, but they were by no means fine. They would lose training points if partially trained or revert. It wasnt until sometime after Patch 98 hit that people were able to fully train them. (I can show you quite a few prepatch dragons that got messed up after 98 hit)

Patch 99, the drama was caused by people who understood the revert patch, dragons and taming knew once deactivated it would not be fixed correctly. And it wasn't.

Why do dragons slot jump?
Because every pet is based of a common intensity metric. Dragons are way over the intensity cap they set for all pets. They are all numbers. White wyrm intensity is much lower than that of Dragons. Simple as that.

New White Wyrms can go to 760 str (but are 4 slot), new white wyrms eat gold.

No way a Dragon could be "fubbed" to 825 str, all dragons start with 796 to 825 str, pre and post patch 97.
 
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Lex Darion

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Snip wall of text.
Patch 97. Generally pet training was bugged.
This was not unique to dragons. Lots of pets jumped for no reason than simply a bad system being bad.

Patch 98. Im sure some bugs remained, I didnt manage to mess up my pets but maybe that's because I always ran my rare pets on TC before I applied on production shard.
Sorry it happened to you.

Patch 99.
Revert patch? They simply stopped training of dragons on one or two days before the patch went live. It was announced so close to when the patch was supposed to hit Origin, people didnt have time to react.
This was only to prevent people from breaking their dragons 100% as every prepatch dragon was slot jumping after the exploit fixes they made.

The mechanics for slot calculation has changed so many times recently so it's hard to know exactly which mechanic was applied to certain pets during their training process.

The available training points for a 2 slot PREPATCH NM is 4500 (3x1500) points, the 2 slot PP nm when all points applied will be about 7900.
But if you count the stats on a fresh tamed 2 slot beetle, you're going to end up with about 8500 points when all training points are applied.
A 2 slot current day fresh tame NM is going to end up with 7300 points... yes it has built in magery and dragonsbreath but that's worth 500 + 100 points, still not on par with the amount of available points on a beetle.

A prepatch white-wyrm 3 slot ends up with intensity slightly above 8000, but still not on par with a fresh beetle.
PP dragons arent much higher than a white-wyrm, but still gets hit with slot jumps.
 

Toranaga

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
My bidding was fair on that thread. I didn't make anyone bid higher and they could have stopped anytime. What am I suppose to stop bidding cause it is too high. Drama is when you tell buyers I don't pay for my winning bids when you have know idea what your talking about. I am willing to bid 150M on it and if people think that is too high, too bad.
 

Toranaga

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Actually I think drama would be if I made a big deal out of the fact that I was the highest bidder on this pet and then it got pulled and relisted for a higher price. I understand he is kinda new at this so no hard feelings. I am glad he decided to relist it instead of pulling it completely. I don't have one of these pets and if I get one, I want the best I can find. Yes that bidding price from before was high but I think those who pay 4 or more platinum for a average stat pet just because it has a rare color is kinda crazy. However, if that is their thing, more power to them. It's their money right. So again, I will put up a bid of 150M.
 

Khyro

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Patch 97. Generally pet training was bugged.
This was not unique to dragons. Lots of pets jumped for no reason than simply a bad system being bad.
Patch 97 was the new Animal Taming system. It had some buggy issues, but pet training in general was fine. Slot jumping was a thing because slots were constantly evaluated based on Intensity once training started. Some pets would jump once you started training, some would jump if you went full-ham in Str/Hits in the first round of training, etc.

Patch 98. Im sure some bugs remained, I didnt manage to mess up my pets but maybe that's because I always ran my rare pets on TC before I applied on production shard.
Sorry it happened to you.
Publish 98 brought with it the first "pet revert", or fix to exploited pets. Slot jumping was fixed, but Legacy Dragons were caught up in the exploit detection, since it was just a broad intensity check.

Patch 99.
Revert patch? They simply stopped training of dragons on one or two days before the patch went live. It was announced so close to when the patch was supposed to hit Origin, people didnt have time to react.
This was only to prevent people from breaking their dragons 100% as every prepatch dragon was slot jumping after the exploit fixes they made.
Yes, Publish 99 was originally going to be the next "revert" patch. The revert code was live on TC for the entire duration of Pub 99 testing, until the last few days when they pulled it. During this time many of us were testing pets to make sure they weren't going to revert when they shouldn't. Dragons were a major problem (as they've been since Pub 97) due to their high intensity. We worked with the Devs on the issue, met Mesanna in game to show her Legacy Dragons that were reverted (she made no mention of not knowing what a legacy dragon was btw, as you alluded). She said it was xxx over the threshold and they will have to revisit the revert code to address Dragons. A few days later, Broadsword pulled the revert code in Pub 99, and said they were going to prevent training on all legacy pets. This was poor communication on their part, as this was only temporary and really only affected Legacy Dragons (which was later corrected by Bleak in his post).

Those of us familiar with how their revert code works were worried that they would continue to mess up Legacy Dragons (which they did in Pub 100). We had 2 days notice, but the decision was made to mass train Legacy dragons to 4 slots and begin animal training. This was the correct call, as this saved those Legacy Dragons. Anyone that did not start training on their Legacy Dragons (at 3 slot or 4 slot) now has an essentially ruined pet since, as we anticipated, broadsword was unable to fix Legacy Dragons. Their solution was to make them slot jump with a warning.

The mechanics for slot calculation has changed so many times recently so it's hard to know exactly which mechanic was applied to certain pets during their training process.
It really hasn't. They have added preventative measures to prevent slot jumping, but it's always been based on the pet's intensity rating.

The available training points for a 2 slot PREPATCH NM is 4500 (3x1500) points, the 2 slot PP nm when all points applied will be about 7900.
But if you count the stats on a fresh tamed 2 slot beetle, you're going to end up with about 8500 points when all training points are applied.
A 2 slot current day fresh tame NM is going to end up with 7300 points... yes it has built in magery and dragonsbreath but that's worth 500 + 100 points, still not on par with the amount of available points on a beetle.
You need to account for innate magical abilities and base damage. A Legacy Nightmare is actually going to have a higher intensity than a 2-slot Frost Mite. 1500 of that is wrapped up in Innate Magery though (not 500).

A prepatch white-wyrm 3 slot ends up with intensity slightly above 8000, but still not on par with a fresh beetle.
PP dragons arent much higher than a white-wyrm, but still gets hit with slot jumps.
Again, you are not correctly calculating pet intensity. A WW is much higher than 8000 intensity.

If you correctly calculate the intensity, you will then see why 3-slot Legacy Dragons have the issues they do.
 
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Lex Darion

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
3 slot WW with high STR means you dont need to waste a lot of training points to bring str up .
You got enough points to build interesting things like chivalry white wyrms.

Oh and the fact you do a bit more damage with overcapped STR is also pretty cool .
Not much, but a small percentage just for the brag factor.
 

Toranaga

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Now the price to buyout is 350M. I mean if anyone should be upset it should be me. I was the highest and most likely the winning bidder on this pet at 220M which we can all agree that is an enormous price for it. I didn't know how much they were worth at the start and didn't really care I just liked and wanted this one. I had enough to buy it so I bid up to about how much I was able to afford and now it has not only been raised up once, but twice. I will stand by my offer of 220M and the seller has until Sunday to contact me. I will guarantee if it gets resisted I won't bid on it again regardless of the price and at 220M, I can also be pretty certain he will never get that offer again. So who pulled out of this auction, it certainly wasn't me. As for the rest of you that tell lies and assume things you know nothing about, thank you for my losing out on this pet. I hope you feel better that if he relists it you will get in now at your cutthroat price. If anyone posts things again about me without proof, I will report you to the moderators. I have done nothing but try to bid fairly and pay for the auctions I have won.
 
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