Poker Chips

[Zyon Rockler]

Necessity is the mother of everything that needs to go into the game, i'm joking but i'm trying to build a game room with alot of games so that I can entertain people. Some of the problem is how to handle money.

For example: If I have 5 games and each one costs 1k to play, that's alot of 1k piles of gold that I have to have.

Also, I have to manage each table through people and keep track of the players' money. Also, there are prizes, 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, 5,000, 10,000 25,000 up to 1 million right now.

So, you can see how this becomes a problem. So, what can I do? Well, I could have alot of gold on hand but then that would be a huge hassle because it becomes to difficult to manage.

We could create books and then sell the books for x amount of money but then people could just copy the books.

We could use a vendor but then again it's kind of overwhelming.

So, I was thinking, it would be great if they had poker chips that are connected to a cash box. So, if somebody drops the chip onto the cash box they will receive either a check or gp, depending on the size of the chip.

The owner of the house, that has the cash box locked down, could distribute or manage the poker chips that he gives out. So, if he gives out a million dollar poker chip and then the poker chip is dropped back onto the box, it would turn into a million gp check.

The poker chips would only work with that cash box, so, I would not be able to take a poker chip from my house and cash it in at someone elses' house. So, the chips would be linked to the cash box.

The cash box could be similar to a vendor, where you can put so much gold on it and that would be the value of how many chips could be sold.

For example: You place your cash box that is empty, then you put 5 million gold into the cash box, There would be, 5 million in chips available.

The chips could be broken down so that it works similar to a cash register, where as, you move certain chips out, certain chips might become unavailable. For example: If there were 500k a 1 million poker chip would not be available.

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Needs some work ... alot of work.

One established problem with "Casino's" in UO ...
"cheaters" are an aspect quite well known.

whether you are one or ain't
cheaters will certainly flock to your establishment
Pickpockets and cutthroats? ... if In Fel?
Okay, no fel based operation then.

Perhaps a cover charge for a house otherwise private
could control the clientele within.
Take their stake monies (and your cover vigorish) upon entry.
Gonna need to frisk them to keep your internal count accurate.

Oh! >you intend no "profit"< ?
Still need to control the flow of all within
'swhy you started by inquiring about "chips"

okay ... any stack-able item, arrows, bolts, reagents
could be assigned any corresponding gp "value"
Take their stake monies upon entry.
Gonna need to frisk them to keep your internal count accurate.
(you'd figure it out the first time someone "cashed in" 20times more than you ever handed out)

Oh but, I'm so totally honest ..
doesn't matter ... ONE TIME an accusation is hurled
YOU are the casino owner ... PROVE that you ain't whatever accused ...
you can't you've already lost ... YOU are the casino owner
and "cheaters" and "liars" and "scammers" are an aspect quite well known.
Even some reputable auction houses have similarly been overthrown.

your query has also, long been solved ...
Movie: WarGames, plot device: How to win at tic-tac-toe?
Video game: UO, character device: how to be a legit Casino operator?

 

[Zyon Rockler]

I've been running COS Quests and i'm trying to entertain and bring in community. We've always asked for more tools to do this.

I really didn't want to use gambling but the more that I've tried to get away from gambling, the more it seems to be a very big part of the game, such as numbers or the roll of a die.

But because i'm trying to build community, I designed the games as more of entertainment. For example: If you pay 25 cents to play a video game, you have already paid for the service and once you've received the service, you haven't lost anything, you basically paid to have some fun.

So, this is what I try to do when I create a game. The game costs 1k to play. So, I try to make the game enjoyable so that it's worth at least that 1k.

Then, I test the games to make sure that there's a balance, somewhere around 50/50 chance to win or lose. This way it's more about having fun than about making money. It's more about building community and making friends, so, a type of unity or club is the goal.

But we also offer the possibility to win big prizes. This means that we're not only losing money but that possibly we will have to invest more money to keep it going. This insures that the people play the games will be happy and this is very unlikely going to take place in other establishments.

So, even though there is a steady flow of money coming in each time someone plays, there is also larger amounts going out. So, it's more of a break even or a small amount that is lost, so, it's done for fun.

The same thing with The Quests. We invest our own money and our own items. The only thing that we get out of it is being able to create something that people like, something that is fun.

So, we feel successful if we've done that. So, by frisking people at the door or locking the house down, I think are all bad ideas. I want people to know that they're welcome and that it's just about a good time and not about money.

If they would add this into the game, then people could create more things for players to do. So, it's a very important tool that players need. It eliminates that feeling of being cheated from both perspectives because you're turning the money into a token and then you're using that token to pay for a service.

 

[Woodsman]

Don't announce what the chips are in advance until everybody is inside and seated.

Use something like blackrock or perhaps gems - things that people aren't normally going to be carrying around with them. Sure, somebody will probably have some gems in a loot bag, but most people aren't going to be carrying around a bunch. Same with imbuing ingredients. Both gems and ingredients stack which is a plus.

You could also use small GM-marked weapons or other items. Train up a very uniquely named smith to GM level, make a bunch of small weapons that are marked, soulstone the smithing between tournaments, rotate it between new characters with very unique names in between poker tournaments, and make unique weapons for each tournament. You could even have certain weapons represent certain amounts of gold.

I don't know what the smallest weapons or items weight-wise are that could be marked by GMs, but it shouldn't be hard to find some that don't weigh much.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Without the poker box it would just add more things I think. It would be great for themed clubs. Like if you could choose a different shaped poker chip.

But if you think about it, I think we're looking at about 40 people. We have 6 games with 4 people, another game that runs along with the auction and I could probably add or create a bunch of other games and change them out. But if you look at all the different gold being shuffled around just with 1 person, you can see how you're always counting or figuring out amounts.

Like, if the person plays 1 game he pays 1k, then he plays another game, he pays another 1k, now he wins that game, he gets 2k or he keeps playing and pays another 1k so he can win higher stakes.

So, you end up with 4 people at your table and you're doing all of these different things. Now, if I could create the knives or the daggers one time it might work because then I could figure out how much cash I need in the cash box and how much to set each value on each item.

But you're still going to run into the problem where someone says, I thought the dagger was worth more.

When you buy a poker chip for 1k, it would say, Poker chip value 1k, and at the game it would say, A 1k Poker chip to play. So, now the dealer knows it's 1k and the player knows that it's 1k, that's very important. The cash box links the chip to the box so that the player can drop the chip right on the box so that there's less human interaction. You would probably need to set a timer on the chips as well.

This stops people from making their own chips. Like you could make a dagger or copy a book or mark a rune. You're always going to run into some kind of problem, plus it's a huge hassle. So, without the tools, the players are pretty much limited to not having casinos or game rooms that exceed 10-20 people.

 

[Theo_GL]

Without the poker box it would just add more things I think. It would be great for themed clubs. Like if you could choose a different shaped poker chip.

But if you think about it, I think we're looking at about 40 people. We have 6 games with 4 people, another game that runs along with the auction and I could probably add or create a bunch of other games and change them out. But if you look at all the different gold being shuffled around just with 1 person, you can see how you're always counting or figuring out amounts.

Like, if the person plays 1 game he pays 1k, then he plays another game, he pays another 1k, now he wins that game, he gets 2k or he keeps playing and pays another 1k so he can win higher stakes.

So, you end up with 4 people at your table and you're doing all of these different things. Now, if I could create the knives or the daggers one time it might work because then I could figure out how much cash I need in the cash box and how much to set each value on each item.

But you're still going to run into the problem where someone says, I thought the dagger was worth more.

When you buy a poker chip for 1k, it would say, Poker chip value 1k, and at the game it would say, A 1k Poker chip to play. So, now the dealer knows it's 1k and the player knows that it's 1k, that's very important. The cash box links the chip to the box so that the player can drop the chip right on the box so that there's less human interaction. You would probably need to set a timer on the chips as well.

This stops people from making their own chips. Like you could make a dagger or copy a book or mark a rune. You're always going to run into some kind of problem, plus it's a huge hassle. So, without the tools, the players are pretty much limited to not having casinos or game rooms that exceed 10-20 people.

Use Gems. They are lightweight and have 'set' prices.

Diamond are 200 and Amber is 50. 1 Amber = 4 diamonds

You have a 1k game? Ante is 5 diamonds or 20 amber. Pay out in the same. They can sell their 'winnings' to a jeweler and you can buy your stock from the jewelers at Tel Mur which is reset every day.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Gems is a great idea and it's the closest thing but what I would really like is to have a poker chip added into the game. Like, imagine having one of these boxes at each table, for example. So, if you had 5 different games, 5 dealers and they each took care of 4 or 5 people, a game, it would be even more awesome.

With the gems you're still having to calculate and move things around quite a bit. For example: If you pay off a 5k chip, you're not trying to figure out how many gems equal 5k or what kind of gem you're trying to use. I could probably sit down and figure it out alittle bit better but I haven't had to time to do it yet, but I will.

But there are other things too, like a roulette wheel. Right now we have a cup and die but we only have one kind.

What if you could set a deck of cards down on a table and then you double click the cards and it gives you a menu and you can pick poker or spades, black jack, rummy, hell even solitare, because you could bet on if you were going to win or lose.

I could wager you 1 million that you will lose and pay you 20 if you win.

Each deck of cards could be a seperate game, so you would buy a poker deck and this deck of cards you could only play poker or you would buy a pinnacle deck.

They could sell these items on the UO Codes or they could go all out and do some kind of expansion, where people would build a casino or a game room but unless we get the poker chips, we won't see anything.

 

[Woodsman]

I mentioned it in another thread, but EA can be awfully shy about anything that can get them an M rating from the ESRB, and the ESRB can redo ratings - Oblivion was upgraded to Mature from Teen after it had been out for a while and additional content was added (some of which was player mods).

Devs have talked in the past about wanting to add in more games of chance for the pubs, and many of those games would have been simple to code given that many people have coded versions of various simple games of chances just to test their programming skills. I went to a town hall about 3-4 dev teams back and I remember somebody asking about it, but the devs were dodgy about it. "We'd like to, but we can't" or something like that.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Well i'm not sure what the M rating would really change for UO. I would think any online game would have an M rating because you deal with people and who is to say how any 1 person will act?

If UO had a M rating, I think it would just give the Devs more freedom, really. I mean i'm sure some people look at ratings but i'm even more sure, kids would rather play an M rated game because they realize the freedom of expression. You wouldn't cover a painting of nudity.

Like, an R rated movie. Kids watch the movies all the time. We just hope they don't understand them. You know like Disney Movies.

Let's face it, UO is not some type of Disney film.

Another thing that is questionable, is the fact, just because you add cards or even a Roulette Wheel, doesn't mean you're running a gambling ring. How do you determine if it's actually gambling, if it's virtual. This is a paradox of even the word gambling. You know numbers used to determine an outcome.

I mean I could argue that using a computer in any form is a type of gambling. Facebook has Poker, all those types of gambling. I don't see mature marked on links and alot of those sites are luring for real money.

Really seems kind of ashamed, we are really so limited where everyone else can do it.

Another thing that is interesting is, what if you were actually trying to make UO to include a real type history. We had gambling, so just learning about history would require some type of rating?

But really, how would an M rating affect UO and what is its' current rating.

 

[Woodsman]

UO was rated M at one point up through at least Renaissance, and is currently rated T. It's not just the ESRB here in the states though, there are issues with other countries. If you read through one of the old threads talking about an M rating it gets into it. This was a pretty good post detailing how violent Ultima VII and VIII were and how UO should go back to M.

I agree with you that they shouldn't worry about UO, especially since it's distributed online. It hasn't hurt Activision with Call of Duty or Bethesda with Oblivion (which went from T to M).

I think I remember Sims Medieval having some gambling stuff, or maybe that was an expansion pack that had it for one of the other Sims games. Either way, I remember some gambling stuff being included. Of course The Sims games don't have much in the way of blood and guts, and those games weren't online. I doubt EA will have gambling in the new Sims Online for Facebook.

Interestingly enough, simulated gambling is allowed within the T rating of the ESRB, but given how zealous the US government is about online gambling, and how Linden Labs was forced to shut down gambling within Second Life (even though SL exchanges in-game currency for real life money which is unlike UO), they may want to avoid anything with the online games. Maybe EA is worried that the RMTers would get involved if there was anything approaching an online casino, or maybe some European or Asian country bans it, who knows.

In thinking about it, if there were better in-game gambling or the ability to setup a Casino, the moment the RMTers got involved, EA would **** their pants after what happened with Linden Labs. They would get blamed even though it's not their fault. It's why Garriot said EA went from officially ignoring RMT to being somewhat against it - there is a point where if they allowed it or encouraged it, they might cross certain lines that they didn't want to cross, such as dealing with people who got scammed, etc.

 

[Zyon Rockler]

Kenny Rogers - The Gambler [Original video] ((HD/HQ)) 1978 - YouTube

 

[Zyon Rockler]

I think the gaming company should get together and draw up a legal agreement that allows for the freedom of creation within a virtual world of virtual reality to not be affected by ratings that would dictate an otherwise uncontrolled environment by that of the player.

What this means is, if a player can create within a virtual reality, the same that can be designed or created or imitated will not interfere with said rating.

If a player, therefore, can create within a virtual world, such as, gambling, prostitution, murder, cannot be bound by law as the creation of objects or devices required for such activities will not be considered a violation of any law.

The creation or freedom of the right of speech should be the same as the right to expression and therefore, should not be bound by law or the opinion of any one group.

I mean, really, it sounds to me like our basic rights have been taken away to create within a virtual world. All of these problems are going to come up in the future, unless some type of contract is put forward by the gaming industry. I'm not saying to make these things something you allow within the game or promote but to not have the freedom to create bounds such things by law.

So, by allowing a male and female character, you have created what is needed for prostitution.

By adding in a weapon, you have created the tools necessary for murder.

By allowing the character to speak, you have created every form of violence or gory detail that any one particular character can create.

Would it not be impossible to eliminate all of these things? So, by adding a deck of cards or poker chips, we've crossed some kind of line? It boggles the mind how you can put a rating, for example: on language. If you go up to an NPC, the NPC is polite but this does not mean that the player is going to be polite. So, we rate the game with a T because the NPC is polite.

What about the player? You have to have the freedom to say what you want. If the game does not have the freedom to grow or express itself, then it's just simply waiting for someone else to break those barriers.

So, by not adding gambling, they're actually stating that they don't promote it and when whomever finds out that the players themselves, are gambling, then they're just sticking it to themselves.

You can put it in the rules of the game, No Cursing. You can state No Gambling but all this is going to do is cause people to go to other games where they have these freedoms. It just gets ridiculous.