Point behind the new detect hidden rules?

[Raptor85]

Is there any point to now not allowing blues to detect blues AT ALL, or was there simply a poll taken to find out yet one more thing to add to further drive people out of UO? It's hard enough to get a steal off on someone after revealing as is, but now I have to leave the screen and heal a monster to even be allowed to....

That and it's made it impossible to page on scripters, or loot them, they by nature hang out in areas AWAY from monsters.

 

[Babble]

Yes, teamplay.
Same as removing friendly fire to make it easier for teams.

 

[Raptor85]

Well, that's wonderful, now maybe require having a red on your team to be allowed to heal a pet? It would enforce teamplay just the same but it's similarly unrelated and ridiculous. Thieves are not murderers, as a matter of fact until a fairly recent publish it only took one murder count to be ejected from the thieves guild and no longer be allowed to steal from players. What's the point of even robbing someone if we need to take him 2v1 with a murderer at my side, just to reveal him, at that point just gank him and take everything.

 

[Babble]

You have to see it from a designer view.
If a blue detects a blue for a gang of reds then detect should be an agressive action.
As detect cannot - or rather should not be an agreesive act they decided that no blue should be able to detect (grief from a Trammel viewpoint) another.

I agree that it is stupid, especially for Felucca, but then ... they get paid for their ideas

Blunt said from a pvp point of view, it is fel be red or go play Trammel


I think you can be in thieving guild and be red now?

 

[Raptor85]

You can but you basically lose the ability to use disguise kits, can't use virtues, and can't buy from vendors. That and it makes a steal in town pretty much impossible as everything will call guards on you even if not seen. It basically means if i want to be able to reveal people at all I'd have to give up half of what I do...boo.

I don't pvp at all as well, I'm not even capable of it. (my only "damage" skills are wrestling and necro)

 

[Babble]

I think devs see/saw blues unhiding blues without getting flagged as bug and so they changed it.

I doubt they will change it back, see it as more Trammel in Fel/Siege

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I think devs see/saw blues unhiding blues without getting flagged as bug and so they changed it.

I doubt they will change it back, see it as more Trammel in Fel/Siege

While you give possible reasons why the devs did what they did, it also makes them look stupid. Why would reds need a blue to reveal other blue's? Of course this is not against you...Just saying if that was the reasoning behind this at all, then it is not very well thought out.

Fel is meant for aggressive actions....I mean this does not really force any kind of team play. They keep looking at this game as if everyone plays it as an RPG, when a very small part of the game population actually does. Factions do not necessarily work with the people in the same faction, and they certainly are not against helping the other factions. Blue players might actually want to perform aggressive actions against other blues. And murders are not role playing evil characters. The change is ridiculous, just glad I only ever reveal orange players.

 

[Chardonnay]

While you give possible reasons why the devs did what they did, it also makes them look stupid. Why would reds need a blue to reveal other blue's? Of course this is not against you...Just saying if that was the reasoning behind this at all, then it is not very well thought out.

Fel is meant for aggressive actions....I mean this does not really force any kind of team play. They keep looking at this game as if everyone plays it as an RPG, when a very small part of the game population actually does. Factions do not necessarily work with the people in the same faction, and they certainly are not against helping the other factions. Blue players might actually want to perform aggressive actions against other blues. And murders are not role playing evil characters. The change is ridiculous, just glad I only ever reveal orange players.

QFT...

 

[Babble]

While you give possible reasons why the devs did what they did, it also makes them look stupid. Why would reds need a blue to reveal other blue's? Of course this is not against you...Just saying if that was the reasoning behind this at all, then it is not very well thought out.

Fel is meant for aggressive actions....I mean this does not really force any kind of team play. They keep looking at this game as if everyone plays it as an RPG, when a very small part of the game population actually does. Factions do not necessarily work with the people in the same faction, and they certainly are not against helping the other factions. Blue players might actually want to perform aggressive actions against other blues. And murders are not role playing evil characters. The change is ridiculous, just glad I only ever reveal orange players.

Those are design decisions of developers who see the game more group placed.
In factions a blue cannot unhide a normal blue factioner now which they could before - is actually my guess why they changed it.
Also a big advanatge is that your own friends if blue don't unhide you now.
These are all changes which creep in since they removed 'friendly fire' which is normal in popular games, though why UO makes these changes I don't know, as they don't really make the game better.

I doubt they considered the repercussions these changes have on other playstyles too much.

 

[Lynk]

I kind of like the fact that people have to wait to rehide when I detect them. I parked my red stealth detector in a corner by yew gate and made a uoa macro for detect last target. Was kind of funny to randomly hti the space bar on my laptop and see all of the orange and red names pop up. You walk around and think that its dead because no one is around. When you reveal like 6 people pop out.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

While you give possible reasons why the devs did what they did, it also makes them look stupid.

While playing on their internal-only test shard, one of them got pwned and didn't like it, hence the long needed change was implemented. Change the game to a way that will compensate for personal incompetence, sounds pretty smart to me.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Those are design decisions of developers who see the game more group placed.
In factions a blue cannot unhide a normal blue factioner now which they could before - is actually my guess why they changed it.
Also a big advanatge is that your own friends if blue don't unhide you now.
These are all changes which creep in since they removed 'friendly fire' which is normal in popular games, though why UO makes these changes I don't know, as they don't really make the game better.

I doubt they considered the repercussions these changes have on other playstyles too much.

It is not as if I disagree with you here. It is not even as if I do not try to empathize with the dev team, I also am first in line to compliment them on any kind of forward thinking, or putting themselves out there...But some things should be consulted.

I am not against balance, I am not against change, I also am not against "almost" forced group play. But this change did none of it...The only thing in mind that might work as an excuse is as you said, factions members can reveal same faction members. While that at least makes sense....Who complained about it? More so, why not just make it like the other "same faction screw up" where it don't work against same factions, same guild, allies, and the such? I mean...if they can make my pet ignore same faction people, even if they go grey against me, why not be able to do that?

I don't mind many of the intentional changes to the game, aside from this one the only other intentional one is the potion weight, while I do not pot...it just does not solve the problem. But at least with the potion weight they went ahead and explained themselves, despite their logic being...off. I just wish there was some kind of reasoning behind some of these intentional changes.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I kind of like the fact that people have to wait to rehide when I detect them. I parked my red stealth detector in a corner by yew gate and made a uoa macro for detect last target. Was kind of funny to randomly hti the space bar on my laptop and see all of the orange and red names pop up. You walk around and think that its dead because no one is around. When you reveal like 6 people pop out.

Curiously, what exactly do you experience? Because...when I get revealed, or when I reveal, the re-hide is instant. I get revealed and have 0 wait time aside from how long it takes me to realize and react, seems to be the same with those I reveal.

 

[Winker]

Curiously, what exactly do you experience? Because...when I get revealed, or when I reveal, the re-hide is instant. I get revealed and have 0 wait time aside from how long it takes me to realize and react, seems to be the same with those I reveal.

Someone has to use the reveal(detect Hiden) skill or spell on you. Then that only works if you are red and they are blue, or them red and you blue.

Pasive reveal is the same as it was before.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Someone has to use the reveal(detect Hiden) skill or spell on you. Then that only works if you are red and they are blue, or them red and you blue.

Pasive reveal is the same as it was before.

...Yes, using the reveal skill on 6 red (actually orange) players with my 100 detect blue (again orange) instant re-hide for them all. Same when I am *actively* detected.

 

[Mervyn]

Revealing another player is basically griefing them, if god forbid i for some reason had to play on a blue and some blue griefer revealed me, i'd be pretty annoyed if i couldn't attack that blue without consequence.

To the OP, if you wanna grief another player, face the consequences.

 

[Raptor85]

Griefing? Maybe if this was tram land...but this is fel. Note that as a thief this also means that I'm IMPOSSIBLE for people to detect before it's too late.

I honestly wouldn't care if it flagged me hostile when i reveal someone, the problem here is it's now impossible to reveal blues short of becoming a murderer on a non-pvp character.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Revealing another player is basically griefing them, if god forbid i for some reason had to play on a blue and some blue griefer revealed me, i'd be pretty annoyed if i couldn't attack that blue without consequence.

To the OP, if you wanna grief another player, face the consequences.

If you are speaking to the OP then you should consider he is fully attack-able as if he is gray since he is a thief, also once he steals something he is in fact gray.

To the main part of your post, you might never know if the person revealing you is red or blue if they are hidden themselves. Although I sympathize with your concept, but the same thing was true before the changes.

 

[Picus at the office]

Someone has to use the reveal(detect Hiden) skill or spell on you. Then that only works if you are red and they are blue, or them red and you blue.

Pasive reveal is the same as it was before.

Not to necro bump but this thread was linked elsewhere today.

Is the above person I quoted indicating that if a red detect's another red(faction or otherwise) that detected person is not subject to the delay in hiding again?

 

[Arrgh]

Can't you just track them and then AOE them?

 

[Raptor85]

Can't you just track them and then AOE them?

Nope, that's not allowed either. Deleted detect hidden off my soulstone for now, I'll just re-train it when it's useful again.

 

[dukarlo]

Detect,tracking, stealh etc have progressively been fubarred further and further ever since ninjitsu made it into the game. Unfortunately it doesnt seem anyone that designs for this game actually plays it. Stealth is way overpowered against players that have the skills that should combat it and underpowered against characters with zero skills invested to combat it. Zero skill passive detect kills thieves to the point of extinction and the detect skill is almost useless against dexer,archer and tamer stealthers. I find it frustrating how Fel is Felammelized more and more every day.