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Please boost tracking + detect hidden at GM Level.

PwnySlaystation

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Call out to the Devs again. PLEASE boost these skills, they're massively underpowered for the amount of skill points.

At GM Tracking we shouldn't have to specify what form the person may be if using "Animal Form", it should be as simple as "Search for Player" then it tell you if a player is near by irrespective of form, it needs a range boost too! Also can detect get a boost, it fails too often and the timer between attempts is too long.
 

PlayerSkillFTW

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Yep. We had a big ass thread about this a year or two ago. GM Tracking has too short of a range, Animal Form/Polymorph shenanigans messes with it, and the tracking arrow updates too slowly, so you can easily miss a Detect Hidden attempt or Reveal spell (which Detect Hidden applies to). Against someone with GM Hiding, 120 Stealth (even if most of it is from +Stealth items) and is an Elf, even if you land the Detect/Reveal attempt smack dab on them, it'll fail to reveal them over half the time with GM Tracking/GM Detect Hidden (real skill, there are no +Skill items for these). Combine that with the Ninjitsu "Shadow" Mastery, which makes it extremely hard to reveal with damage, and most Stealthers are basically impervious to attack, until they decide to come out of hiding.

I like to think of it like this. They hit the "Hiding" skill, and they phase shift into an alternate dimension where they're impervious to harm, yet can still see the world of Felucca. At any point, they can decide to end the phase shift, and reenter the world of Felucca to deliver ambushes and pot shots. Like D&D Phase Spiders.
 

GarthGrey

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
I agree with everything said, but unfortunately feel this will never change. Stealth gets huge bonuses for being at 120, detect and tracking don't get squat and both skills were worthy of a Power Scroll need at least. How can you have a Legendary Fisherman and not a Legendary Tracker ?
 

TheDrAJ

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Lets see to be a good at stealth in animal form you need 100 hiding, 80 stealth (or more) and 80 ninja.
Granted you can add stealth and ninja items but it still leaves very little room for offensive and defensive skills.
So maybe by increasing detect and tracking to 120 skills and giving them more power is a solution.
Otherwise I think things are fine as they are.
 

WhiteWitch

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
I agree with everything said, but unfortunately feel this will never change. Stealth gets huge bonuses for being at 120, detect and tracking don't get squat and both skills were worthy of a Power Scroll need at least. How can you have a Legendary Fisherman and not a Legendary Tracker ?
Cant you track anyone with JOAT tracking anyway regardless of their stealth skill?
 

OREOGL

Crazed Zealot
Professional
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
Lets see to be a good at stealth in animal form you need 100 hiding, 80 stealth (or more) and 80 ninja.
Granted you can add stealth and ninja items but it still leaves very little room for offensive and defensive skills.
So maybe by increasing detect and tracking to 120 skills and giving them more power is a solution.
Otherwise I think things are fine as they are.
Its not hard to make a pvp char with hiding stealth and animal form, In fact there are several common templates with these and have been used for years now.

Tracking needs improved, detect hidden isn't used really by anyone but maybe the sigil hunters and treasure hunters.

The range needs expanded slightly and tracking should have a smaller delay in use.


They should still keep the forms separate though, but need to update it to cover all forms.

I'm not even sure you can track white tiger form.

Oh and smoke bombs should not work within 10 tiles of an attacker.
 

PwnySlaystation

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Lets see to be a good at stealth in animal form you need 100 hiding, 80 stealth (or more) and 80 ninja.
Granted you can add stealth and ninja items but it still leaves very little room for offensive and defensive skills.
So maybe by increasing detect and tracking to 120 skills and giving them more power is a solution.
Otherwise I think things are fine as they are.
Very little room? Deathstrikers are one of the most offensive and defensive templates in this game, now the Focused Parry Alchy mage is gone, id say its at the top of the food chain for both offensive capabilities and defensive. Given all the smoke bombing/animal forming/stealth + Deathstrike / Nox/ Nerve strike, which is all do-able in 1 build.
 

GarthGrey

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Not true, just tracked my own GM hide/110 stealther on first try with 0 tracking on a human, worked first go, although didnt work every go after, roughly 3 fails to 1 success
Congratulations, it works great for you.
 

VinnySP

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I use joat tracking all the time, it does fail alot though and you can detect tiger form and Stone aswell.
 

OREOGL

Crazed Zealot
Professional
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
Not true, just tracked my own GM hide/110 stealther on first try with 0 tracking on a human, worked first go, although didnt work every go after, roughly 3 fails to 1 success
Yeah, but most could see that this was probably on a static target.
Which completely skews your point, let alone you're at 110.

Were you just hiding or did you move to become in stealth?
 

WhiteWitch

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Yeah, but most could see that this was probably on a static target.
Which completely skews your point, let alone you're at 110.

Were you just hiding or did you move to become in stealth?
Char was in stealth, had moved after hiding, I only bothered to test as I can remember using it on Siege with 0 skill in it to find stealthers, as Vinny mentioned above.

The OP is right that tracking doesnt give a good return for high skill in it, greater range at GM would be great, but they also need to stop it giving such a great return(ie able to counter GM+ stealth at 20.0) for having very low or NO skill in it.

The way it seems to to work is the way provocation worked before the pub 16 nerf(the skill level % equated directly to the chance of you provoking ANYTHING), as such JOAT in tracking gives you a 20% chance to find anyone within range, no matter their stealth/hide skill
 

TheDrAJ

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Wh
I agree with everything said, but unfortunately feel this will never change. Stealth gets huge bonuses for being at 120, detect and tracking don't get squat and both skills were worthy of a Power Scroll need at least. How can you have a Legendary Fisherman and not a Legendary Tracker ?
What are the benefits of 120 stealth?
 

cobb

Sage
Stratics Veteran
meh. It is fine. Leave as is. Asking for all these changes while pvp is fairly balance is a bad idea and only likely to create imbalances.
 

cobb

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Very little room? Deathstrikers are one of the most offensive and defensive templates in this game, now the Focused Parry Alchy mage is gone, id say its at the top of the food chain for both offensive capabilities and defensive. Given all the smoke bombing/animal forming/stealth + Deathstrike / Nox/ Nerve strike, which is all do-able in 1 build.
Maybe you should try to adapt first instead of trying to get things nerfed in your favor. There is nothing stopping you from playing the many variations on the parry mage to counter the deathstrikers if they bother you so much.

Your suggestion to boost tracking and detect hidden would make an entire template and its many variation worthless. Do you want less diversity of templates in pvp? Because that is what is going to happen. Not only would it nullify deathstrikers, it would make stealth archers useless. Who was complaining about stealth archers? Nobody ever.
 
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