Playing the game

[Doubleplay]

I am a little confused when the conversation is about drop rates or skill training. Peeps say that they don't have the time for getting items or gaining skills at the current rates. They just want to "PLAY THE GAME". My question is, what game is that?

If we had a permanent TC shard that allowed permanent house placement and was never wiped, would those who complain about the GRIND move there to PLAY THE GAME? If so, then the devs by all means should create such a shard. All the coding is already done, and lots of dissatisfied players would be pretty happy.

Of course my opinion is that the UO economy is built and depends on the GRIND. However I have been wrong on occasion. Got to wondering about how many people would migrate to such a shard, and if so what kind of economy would evolve.

 

[old gypsy]

I am one who wouldn't move. I honestly like my shard and the other players I interact with. Also, most of the pleasure I get from the game comes from the simple things... the "let's pretend" factor, so to speak. But of course, I'm not a competitive player -- much too laid back for that.

Although the idea of a permanent TC shard might appeal to some, I think it would have the potential to harm the game, overall -- especially if too many players deserted their home shards for the promise of instant maxed skills and more immediate rewards. (And if things like housing and loot were "permanent", why would they ever go home?)

Our little UO world is sparsely populated as it is.

 

[Tjalle]

It seems that many of the "just want to play the game" people wants the game tailor suited around their needs. Cuz they all seem to have three jobs, two families and a goldfish to feed so they "don´t have time" to do some of the stuff that is required.

Well guess what, this is a MMO world so if you want something then you better be prepared to put in the time and effort to get it.

 

[Merus]

It seems that many of the "just want to play the game" people wants the game tailor suited around their needs. Cuz they all seem to have three jobs, two families and a goldfish to feed so they "don´t have time" to do some of the stuff that is required.

Well guess what, this is a MMO world so if you want something then you better be prepared to put in the time and effort to get it.

I think you have it slightly skewed... People do NOT want their game play tailored to someone else's needs. What I like to do in UO may be different than what you enjoy, but both are important.

 

[Ludes]

I am a little confused when the conversation is about drop rates or skill training. Peeps say that they don't have the time for getting items or gaining skills at the current rates. They just want to "PLAY THE GAME". My question is, what game is that?

If we had a permanent TC shard that allowed permanent house placement and was never wiped, would those who complain about the GRIND move there to PLAY THE GAME? If so, then the devs by all means should create such a shard. All the coding is already done, and lots of dissatisfied players would be pretty happy.

Of course my opinion is that the UO economy is built and depends on the GRIND. However I have been wrong on occasion. Got to wondering about how many people would migrate to such a shard, and if so what kind of economy would evolve.

I agree..
For me personally, gaining skills and stuff is a side effect of playing.

 

[Rhiannon]

I suppose I fit in with Doubleplay and Ludes. And I thought they "fixed" that problem for those who don't want to "grind" by doing a number of things like buying skills from a trainer up to 50 or even purchase an advanced player token where the skills are already high. Maybe the person who doesn't want to "grind" isn't the type of person who would enjoy playing Ultima Online.

I personally found a HUGE sense of accomplishment when while creating spellbooks to sell on my vendor one night in late 1999, I saw the message pop up on my screen that my magery had hit 100. I was a GM mage after playing for 2 solid years. I wasn't TRYING to hit those "numbers", I was just living and working in the world. To me, that's a lot of the beauty of it. Now, I'm killing monsters to do two things: save the gold I need for a 120 magery power scroll, and get my mysticism up to 120 (my mentor says he won't take me on an advanced journey until my skill hits 90. That's a lot of monsters to kill since I'm only at 63. But that's Ok. I'm saving the world from those evil monsters [that is the core of the Ultima lore, is it not?], gathering gold and improving my skills.) Where is the lack of fun and adventure there?

 

[Picus at the office]

Telling people to purchase a APT or the other one is not a viable option.

 

[Bobar]

My guess is that the ones who just want to 'Play the Game' will not be around too long.

 

[Merus]

I suppose I fit in with Doubleplay and Ludes. And I thought they "fixed" that problem for those who don't want to "grind" by doing a number of things like buying skills from a trainer up to 50 or even purchase an advanced player token where the skills are already high. Maybe the person who doesn't want to "grind" isn't the type of person who would enjoy playing Ultima Online.

I personally found a HUGE sense of accomplishment when while creating spellbooks to sell on my vendor one night in late 1999, I saw the message pop up on my screen that my magery had hit 100. I was a GM mage after playing for 2 solid years. I wasn't TRYING to hit those "numbers", I was just living and working in the world. To me, that's a lot of the beauty of it. Now, I'm killing monsters to do two things: save the gold I need for a 120 magery power scroll, and get my mysticism up to 120 (my mentor says he won't take me on an advanced journey until my skill hits 90. That's a lot of monsters to kill since I'm only at 63. But that's Ok. I'm saving the world from those evil monsters [that is the core of the Ultima lore, is it not?], gathering gold and improving my skills.) Where is the lack of fun and adventure there?

I think your sense of accomplishment is great for you. How does someone else having the option to train on a golem finish that? Are you saying we should all be tied to what you deem an accomplishment? Golem training was just an option for those who wanted to use it. Where are all the tinkers advocating for no skill gain on monsters so that the value of golems goes up? I fail to understand how someone else's choice of skill training has any bearing on how others play the game.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

This discussion was, let's face it, caused by the golem training thing.

There will, however, always be ways to powergame in UO, and there'll always be those who eschew it.

Golem training was a technique to powergame. There will be others.

-Galen's player

 

[Lady Storm]

Galen I have only once trained on a Golem.... somewhere I still have that golem in a stable..... I found I didnt like standing still to gain so I went out and played the game and gave up on the gaining. I gained when I played. To my surprise it went alot faster then I would have imagined. With friends you hunt with time and skills go up as par for the course.
I am not sure if that is the point of the OP however. Everyone plays different as we choose different things to wear or work different jobs. Its a mind set. Every player does it their way.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Galen I have only once trained on a Golem.... somewhere I still have that golem in a stable..... I found I didnt like standing still to gain so I went out and played the game and gave up on the gaining. I gained when I played. To my surprise it went alot faster then I would have imagined. With friends you hunt with time and skills go up as par for the course.
I am not sure if that is the point of the OP however. Everyone plays different as we choose different things to wear or work different jobs. Its a mind set. Every player does it their way.

I did not write assuming anyone's point of view. I said that the discussion was "caused" by the golem training thing.

One can admit such a cause without having a point of view on it, one way or the other.

-Galen's player

 

[Theo_GL]

I am a little confused when the conversation is about drop rates or skill training. Peeps say that they don't have the time for getting items or gaining skills at the current rates. They just want to "PLAY THE GAME". My question is, what game is that?

If we had a permanent TC shard that allowed permanent house placement and was never wiped, would those who complain about the GRIND move there to PLAY THE GAME? If so, then the devs by all means should create such a shard. All the coding is already done, and lots of dissatisfied players would be pretty happy.

Of course my opinion is that the UO economy is built and depends on the GRIND. However I have been wrong on occasion. Got to wondering about how many people would migrate to such a shard, and if so what kind of economy would evolve.

I am in favor of this idea as there are players that want this and would be very happy with a permenant test shard with kill counters and something to PvP for.

As much as I do favor making skills easier to gain - I think the act of gaining them is good to an extent. Especially for new players - you should learn the ropes as you work your way up. However, that learning curve should be 1-2 hrs a day for 2 weeks tops. If you can't fully build up a character in 10-20 hours - thats too much time. As it is - with no unattended gameplay it takes approx 70-90 hours of playtime to full pimp out a char to 120 skills. Thats too long. For some skills like taming - forget it. I have a tamer on GL that STILL is not 120 after 10 years. I ggs his skill when I think about it - but i wear jewels to get to 120. The game needs less grind. Not no grind - less.

And in terms of vet players - I've been here 10 years. I have decked out toons on 4 US shards, 1 overseas shard, and bod gatherers on 3 other shards plus chars on every shard for xmass gifts. When I go to a new shard and want to build an imbuer - I'm not learning anything from building it the 3'rd time. I should have some way to accellerate the building because there is NO JOY in building an imbuer for the 4th time. However, I need that imbuer to make armor for my other characters to play the game. Next someone will say 'why don't you hire an imbuer?' Good luck finding someone to spend 2-3 hrs pouring over a spreadsheet to build you a suit of armor on a new shard that exactly fits your needs. If you do - it won't be at a reasonable price. Not to mention on some shards - there is no one playing so you couldn't hire anyone anyways. I mean, I play a shard that literally has 5-10 players.

I don't need skill building to be 'set skill', but something less than 80+ hours to build a 120 imbuer would be nice especially if I've already done it 2 or 3 times.

 

[cazador]

There will, however, always be ways to powergame in UO, and there'll always be those who eschew it.

Golem training was a technique to powergame. There will be others.

-Galen's player

There are others already people are focusing on this bad "non bug" fix rather ten just realizing oh well on to the next not so big thing for them to fix 10 years from now and if there are people who don't already know how or what those are PM me the skill you're training and ill tell you exactly how to gain it ..

 

[Doubleplay]

I still wonder what economy, or to restate, what would be the "draw" for those who choose the permanent TC shard? I feel accomplishment when finally getting to 120 skill, or catching the big fish, or getting a tangle drop. My perspective obviously is not universal. Without judging other's perspectives, I remain curious as to what they are.

When I was growing up, we took a yearly two week vacation up the California coast to fish for salmon on the mouth of the Klamath river. From the nearest parking spot to the fishing area was a mile to two mile trek across a vicious sand spit. We carried our gear in rain, fog and generally miserable conditions. Building a fire from driftwood was the first order of business, as it was always so cold it seemed you would die without it. We cast our jigs into the river mouth all day long. It was hard, hard work and very dangerous. One slip into the water could be fatal. The ocean was as out of a surreal painting, with standing waves 30 feet high where the river met the ocean. The Klamath indians had a little shack out there selling blackberry pies. They were so good. We would do this daily for two weeks, and felt lucky and successful if we caught a half dozen fish from 15 to 30 lbs in weight. Fifty years later, the memories are vivid and exciting.

A trip to Alaska recently with new generations of the family found us on a river. We caught a salmon on every cast. If you threw a rock in the river, odds were probably better than 50/50 you would hit a fish. After about an hour of fishing, I was bummed out on the salmon fishing and got to wondering what I would do for the next three days.

For what it's worth, this memory and experience is what encouraged me to ask the UO question, because my son and his family were relating their fond memories of their Alaska experience. I am sure they will remember the Alaska trip all their lives, and I did not have the heart to point out that I thought their experience was shallow, compared to the good old days of salmon fishing on the Klamath. Perhaps the UO experience is similar. To the new generation of UO players, their experience may be shallow in my eyes, but they are enjoying the current scenario and building fond memories too.

 

[Warpig Inc]

There are gamers that just need a quick fix of game time. Then the earned ,set goal, hit the finnish line no matter what place you come in gamers. Call them round peg and square peg. Both have a place in the UO board. Neither fit in the others place. EA long ago could of figured out square pags don't wander. EA failed to figure out which one has a magnet in their ass and catered to that playstyle. Instead they jump through rings of fire trying to make things new and shiney with constant flow of new stuff. New gaming to maintain the attention of round pegs. UO keeps getting poked in the eye by the new generation that just wants to play once the switch is turned on. They need that win to tea bag their kill on CHAT to feel a sense of accomplishment. They have not one story to tell about any part of their suit. How they struggled skill gaining with ratmen archers before moving on to dragons.

Way back machine 3 decades. Gaming for me was the way of pencil, paper and dice tech. Screen was the brain projecting images on the inside of your skull. Only clicking that decided ones future was dice bouncing on a table. New generation would be bored after there Monster was gone. Could never tell them for the same ammount they could of had 3 liters of Mountain Dew. A real gamer measures their game time in the number of piss breaks taken.

 

[old gypsy]

Way back machine 3 decades. Gaming for me was the way of pencil, paper and dice tech.

A little over three decades for me... fond memories of good friends meeting on a regular basis, all gathered around the dining room table with their treasured character sheets, eagerly anticipating whatever delightful (or distressing) new surprise the DM had planned for that week! Sometimes I do wish we had a "way back machine".

 

[Rhiannon]

A little over three decades for me... fond memories of good friends meeting on a regular basis, all gathered around the dining room table with their treasured character sheets, eagerly anticipating whatever delightful (or distressing) new surprise the DM had planned for that week! Sometimes I do wish we had a "way back machine".

And that's how Richard Garriott eventually ended up with this idea of creating the Ultima Series and eventually UO.

 

[old gypsy]

And that's how Richard Garriott eventually ended up with this idea of creating the Ultima Series and eventually UO.

The paper and pencil games were the ancestors... essentially the Mitochondrial DNA of UO and similar games.

 

[startle]

Always interesting, the way threads evolve....

 

[gunneroforgin]

I am a little confused when the conversation is about drop rates or skill training. Peeps say that they don't have the time for getting items or gaining skills at the current rates. They just want to "PLAY THE GAME". My question is, what game is that?

If we had a permanent TC shard that allowed permanent house placement and was never wiped, would those who complain about the GRIND move there to PLAY THE GAME? If so, then the devs by all means should create such a shard. All the coding is already done, and lots of dissatisfied players would be pretty happy.

Of course my opinion is that the UO economy is built and depends on the GRIND. However I have been wrong on occasion. Got to wondering about how many people would migrate to such a shard, and if so what kind of economy would evolve.

Origin IS a permanent Test shard. we get all the new stuff first. Origin ocassionaly suffers set backs where the shard is reverted but we never lose our permant stuff. Origin is suffering a lack of player so there is plenty of housing spots availabe.

 

[Doubleplay]

Origin IS a permanent Test shard. we get all the new stuff first. Origin ocassionaly suffers set backs where the shard is reverted but we never lose our permant stuff. Origin is suffering a lack of player so there is plenty of housing spots availabe.

By permanent test shard, I mean a shard where you are given all artifacts and other game paraphernalia on request, all skills on request etc.

 

[gunneroforgin]

ahh i see.

 

[Ludes]

My guess is that the ones who just want to 'Play the Game' will not be around too long.

But, I've been "playing the game" since beta... and I play all the other Ultima's as well. does that mean I'm gonna die soon?

 

[Bobar]

But, I've been "playing the game" since beta... and I play all the other Ultima's as well. does that mean I'm gonna die soon?

Lets hope not