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Not worthless. There are still quite a few reasons someone would want a 3 slot dragon. I would not train it so it turns to 4. I think their value will be they are 3 slots and lower control requirements. And you never know if they will change it in the future.
When did this happen.
A good home for a dragon is in destard. If you release it with nothing around it will live it's life with the others.
Is that what you meant K?
I've had dragons with 0 physical resist. THey are pretty old and missed any normalization patches.
Depends on the intensity of the greater dragon. All the stats added up. And since Greater Dragons can have wildly different stats..., generally under 550 health and it's probably going to have one or two lower ranges for: resists, str, or overcaps wres/tact/resist
What you need to do is: Copy tamer and dragon to Test center, and there confirm whether they get TWO levels of training or not regardless of what the pet gump showing they went to 4 etc. If they get only one, then they really got jumped one level and in bad shape. But regardless of the slot number that you see in the pet gump, they may not have jumped a level. You just got to confirm it in TC1. If they are all jumping from 3-->5 if they really do: Would keep them stashed for a future fix hoping..What Im saying is that although the gump shows they are at slot 4, in reality you get TWO levels of training. Got nothing to lose to test it on TC1..
I have tested this multiple times on TC1. Guildies have tested this multiple times. I am not sure what your agenda is in this with confusing people and giving out false info. You get one round of training. This was in patch notes and confirmed by multiple people because THEY TESTED IT. Stop telling people they get two rounds of training, they don't.
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So, they have put the blue button back on Dragons?
And they go from 3 to 4 slot so they can be trained but only 1 round...
Thats their fix I guess. Agree stick em in stable and hope.
Im sure there will be players that push that button.
Ok that was this fix...
And they go from 3 to 4 slot so they can be trained but only 1 round...
Thats their fix I guess. Agree stick em in stable and hope.
Im sure there will be players that push that button.
Ok that was this fix...
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I also have trained pets time and time over on both TC1 and prodo, mostly Cus starting at 3 slots and then prematurely went to 4 slots, then to discover that I still had two entire training levels on these. I wanted to point out that fact and to just try to see if indeed there is only one level of training left on the dragons. It is sad that this is the case. The meaning was not to spread misinformation but to spread confirmation for each player to indeed see for themselves whether indeed this is the case. Any rate your work is appreciated and trusted. No need to be so sensitive about people confirming for themselves what has happened. It is sad really, and I sincerely hope the Devs will change their mind about the legacy dragons. I also hope they will not go afer OTHER legacy pets, now that would make a lot more people unhappy!
Well the fact that legacy pets have an advantage over non legacy, I don't understand how people can be happy or ultimately please with themselves having an unfair advantage over new tames. It's not just legacy pets, there are also a handful of tricks that can be applied with the pet training that push some over the edge (one got fixed and this pet I use) and if it was my game I would of put all you hopefuls in the gutter publishes ago!
Baring in mind I completely understand why some people are frustrated with the fact that Cu Sidhe's/Lesser Hiryu's dominate the "go to pets for PvE", so cheating the system with other pets in any way possible feels right and really the blame lies with the developers for shipping publish 97 too soon in the first place, it's up to them to fix it and some of you to bite the bullet on what you've gotten away with, instead complain about how strong some pets are compared to others so we can see some much needed buffs! Including the rarity of some finds and improving the chance of finding them, like for example a 4 slot GD (on average I find 2-3 4 rating's before I bump into a 4 slot!).
The same strength range as a 5 slot, except the 4 slot is more likely to be in the mid to high 500s.
First thing to look at would be to start loring for the dragon to have 1100 health in the wild (it's halved of course when tamed).
They are fairly uncommon, but not super rare. Sometimes I go into Destard and the first one I lore is a 4-slot. Other times I can hunt dragons for a couple hours (mainly looking for nice 5-slots), and never see a 4-slot. It will show in the lore page that they are a 4-slot though, so keep trying and hopefully you will eventually find one.
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From my experience it's 1/50.
deadly, I respect you posts and ideas. However there are several things to consider:
==Legacy pets are in no way shape or form cheats, by any stretch of the imagination. Also they are not unfair advantage to anyone. These are pets owned by some people for decades.
==Agree that training them may offer some advantages. Similar to other powerful things in the game that take countless hours of work, some time years to acquire. Are they unfair? To whom? Not really. They did not break TOS rules, and requires lots of sacrifice and learning to obtain. Same things with the legacy pets.
==Legacy pets are really not OP, if you compare with what we train and what the final product of good current pet training does.
==There are a lot of legacy pet owners. Many of us sadly wrecked them whet the pet training came about, so now they are useless. But there are a lot of others that wisely waited. And they are many, but not abundant.
Any nerf to legacy pets is going to be faced with a lot of unhappiness by the player base, rightly so.
==You can think of some of these pets as end-game items, like uber armor etc. They are not going to stop the newcomers from hoping to get some endgame items or top level items when they acquire experience and productive time in the game.
==I find it very disappointing what happened to legacy dragons, it has made their owners very unhappy and now these pets will stay stabled till there is hope things will be fixed, thus they will take one or more stableslots that could be used otherwise for who knows how long. I do not own any such dragons, but the reasoning behind their slot-jump nerf is worrisome for other things that may follow.
==Legacy pets specifically dragons, mares, WW, and particularly Dread mares, and banes should not be touched IMO, and I think the vast majority of players including the few incoming new players would agree.
==Again the idea that any of these pets offer unfair advantages and it is cheating to own one, is really super stretching reality.
==Finally, we the playerbase do not own this game. The Devs already have decided to keep most of the legacy pets alone except for unfortunate legacy lesser dragon. Maybe in a future pub they will change that too.
There is a significant difference between a 3 slot White Wyrm with 750 STR and another 3 slot WW with 450 and aslong as you don't touch HP/STR during it's 1st train it shouldn't jump to 5 slots and that is a massive advantage over any fresh tame you can get ingame! A 3 slot White Wyrm is the best Magery PvE pet in the game, it's clean Magery with no other usual mana dumps/cast time pet abilities like Dragon Breath and you can train one to skilled/tailored to meet a PvE need pretty nicely, so yea I will kick up a fuss because it's a top tier pet and I'm not in the business of being weaker than anyone just because I didn't tame one before publish 97.
Also let's forget about the fact people would tame and keep a Dragon when there were far better pets (It's like they foresaw a pet revamp!), If players are allowed to keep their 3 slot Dragons and train without slot jump then that enables those owners to point and laugh at anyone grinding for a 4 slot Greater Dragon as they can be more versatile in build and can cram it that extra more! Also the added bonus of having a trained 4 slot Dragon and you can be mounted on a swamp dragon? Their is just no argument that Legacy pets can break a system they shouldn't exist in, I wouldn't mind their existence if their were other similar options available but there isn't, there is only "do you have a legacy pet?" "no?" "too bad!".
Think of it like this, you really think all this fuss would come about if current fresh tames had just the same stats and slots as legacy pets (but legacy pets were completely untrainable or jump ye), the only reason people can't be quiet is because there are no good alternatives when they look at the stats and slots on their pre publish pets they want those ones, they don't want to tame a weaker pet!
I hope the developer's can instead of just putting the "mute" button on their emails about "my pet blah blah" get to grips with what they've done with pub 97, I like the bug fixing the balancing they've done recently but they really need to prioritize pets, even though tamers are not all of their playerbase they thought they could promote the game and get easy sales in by shifting out an incomplete pet revamp (albeit an improvement and interesting system!) but now they need to fix the mess. When they fix it players can be happier, return to coming up with ideas or just talking about other thing in general about the game instead of "my legacy pet....." "Skree is a joke, fix it!" "these new dragons suck!" (<-- extremely accurate xD ).
Also my rant "Remove Dragon Breath off pets or revamp the skill because it sucks!"
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SouthPaw
Lore Master
I ended up training my dragon up. I only have 14 stable slots, I don't want one of those slots taken up indefinitely by a pet the devs will likely not change. If his physical resist wasn't so messed up I'd keep him at 3 slots, but under the circumstances I decided to train him. Here's what I did:
-Set resists
-stam to 150
-max base damage
-mana regen 30
-stam regen 5
-HP regen 10 (not enough to max, but better than nothing)
-HP to 500 (this is the only thing I hate, wish I could have got it at least to 600)
-Add armor ignore
-Has 200 points left (so I could add 120 wrestling eventually, or 110 and maybe eval and meditation).
He does very well, I'm very impressed and he only has 99 wrestling right now and 0 parry. Also his magery and eval int skills are low. Once I skill this guy up he's going to be VERY good.
*If I got another training round, this guy would be way overpowered IMO, because then I could add CHIV, full 120 scrolls and more HP/MANA and still have over 800 STR, he has high INT also. I highly doubt the devs will ever give these guys 2 training rounds.
-Set resists
-stam to 150
-max base damage
-mana regen 30
-stam regen 5
-HP regen 10 (not enough to max, but better than nothing)
-HP to 500 (this is the only thing I hate, wish I could have got it at least to 600)
-Add armor ignore
-Has 200 points left (so I could add 120 wrestling eventually, or 110 and maybe eval and meditation).
He does very well, I'm very impressed and he only has 99 wrestling right now and 0 parry. Also his magery and eval int skills are low. Once I skill this guy up he's going to be VERY good.
*If I got another training round, this guy would be way overpowered IMO, because then I could add CHIV, full 120 scrolls and more HP/MANA and still have over 800 STR, he has high INT also. I highly doubt the devs will ever give these guys 2 training rounds.
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Stable tokens FTW
SouthPaw
Lore Master
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
I will be extremely surprised if devs ever give players 2 rounds of training for a PP dragon, so I'm not giving up a stable slot indefinitely for that. PP Dragons would be majorly overpowered with 2 rounds of training, which I imagine the devs tested for themselves and that's why they made them all skip a slot.
I think that are a lot of other things to fix in the game, other than nuke all legacy pets.
Legacy pets are legacy items. We do not want to consider the possibility of nuking all legacy and high value items to make very few players happy doing that. There are players with uber armor and collectors who collect legacy items and end game high value items EM event items etc.
The legacy pets are not so many as to influence game play of others that do not have legacy pets. The fall-out from affecting legacy pets negatively will not have anything good to offer the game, just one more capricious vile act that would not help anything and elicit a storm of anger and complaints.
Very good players, some of the best players in the game and superb posters in this forum have some of these.
Legacy pets are not exploited. We had this conversation with exploited pets, and that has hopefully been addressed. That was due to exploits and hacking of pets, that is against TOS. There is nothing in the TOS about legacy pets and items.
Legacy pets will not make the uber weapon for PvP. There is no pet that can measure up to and expert PVP that knows what they are doing. All pets are nerfed for PVP, working as intended. So PVP uber legacy pets is not the issue.
Legacy pets are one more thing that may bring old resigned payers back into the game and reactivate accounts, so it is a positive. It also may provided them with some seed gold for their play.
There are other things to do, other than infuriate and disappoint players that have payed good money first subscribing, and perhaps buying and then top-scrolling these pets.
We do not need any more damaging to the game actions by the devs. They got a lot more work to do like fixing bugs, and perhaps tweaking pet damages, adjust slots with some pets that are too high slot to begin with and come out with too few TP's to do anything with them, thusly collecting dust and not being used.
The numbers of legacy pets, and types of them are not capable of altering balance in the game overall.
Legacy pets as it is now are rares. We do not nuke rares in this game. We cherish them for what they are, and those that have played long enough and have the $ or the ability to do so are able to own them. This is admirable and not despicable, exploit, cheat or negative in any way. It is and has been a part of the game for decades.
I can make and find stuff which is better than legacy wearables, I cannot find a pet that is better than a legacy pet, I don't see how you can justify with "it brings old resigned players back into the game" "it's the reason they log on for", if the only reason they come back to UO is to play with their old toys I don't know what to say, those people can't possible enjoy the evolution of the game if that is the case.
I have no problem with Bane Dragons, Dreadmares etc you collector's can flash those wears all you like you're not interfering with the competitive integrity of the game but when you try and justify the existence of 3 slot 750 STR White Wyrms and 3 slot Dragons that can stomp on any 4 slot GD find i'll keep telling you that you are wrong as you do not care for a balanced system and balanced systems is a healthy trait for a game to have to bring in new players, end of. So in conclusion, you "cherish" a regular looking Dragon that someone has to lore to find out that it has better stats than a regular Dragon, I can't believe what i'm actually hearing, seriously. Like they did a fun/interesting/improvement revamp on pets, released new pets and obviously balancing and bugs have come with it and then there are a bunch of you trying to be hipsters, not wanting anything new and crying about how you can't get your old integrated in, please stop obsessing! I genuinely wish you all the best in getting these pets back and online but they 100% to be nerfed to a state that falls in line with what you can fresh tame ingame currently!
I have no problem with Bane Dragons, Dreadmares etc you collector's can flash those wears all you like you're not interfering with the competitive integrity of the game but when you try and justify the existence of 3 slot 750 STR White Wyrms and 3 slot Dragons that can stomp on any 4 slot GD find i'll keep telling you that you are wrong as you do not care for a balanced system and balanced systems is a healthy trait for a game to have to bring in new players, end of. So in conclusion, you "cherish" a regular looking Dragon that someone has to lore to find out that it has better stats than a regular Dragon, I can't believe what i'm actually hearing, seriously. Like they did a fun/interesting/improvement revamp on pets, released new pets and obviously balancing and bugs have come with it and then there are a bunch of you trying to be hipsters, not wanting anything new and crying about how you can't get your old integrated in, please stop obsessing! I genuinely wish you all the best in getting these pets back and online but they 100% to be nerfed to a state that falls in line with what you can fresh tame ingame currently!
If I was part of the UO team I'd be sandbagging myself in right about now!
SouthPaw
Lore Master
My Cu is better than my legacy nightmare in virtually every way. Both have AI/CHIV. Cu has healing skill, nightmare doesn't. Nightmare has crappy mana draining dragon breath, Cu doesn't. Also My Cu has a little bit more HP than my nightmare.
Cu is probably better than my legacy WW. Both have AI/Chiv. Again, Cu has healing skill, WW doesn't. My Cu also has more HP than my WW. WW has 30 more STR than my CU (only advantage)-not a big deal at all.
Cu vs. my legacy dragon. Dragon has over 800 STR (only advantage), but has crappy dragon breath with only 500 max HP. Cu has healing, dragon doesn't. Not enough points to full skill 120 on dragon, but Cu can. My dragon has 10 HP regen, my cu has 20. Dragon has magery, but can't change to Chiv or anything else because there's not enough training points. I'd bet in a 1v1 fight with no intervention by me, my AI/Chiv Cu would kill my AI/Magery legacy dragon. Even more so if my Cu was fully scrolled out with 120's which it has the points for.
I think you overestimate how good legacy pets are. They may be better than their same type that spawns now, but a Cu has the potential to be as good or better than most legacy pets. Lesser Hiryu's, (giant, fire, and rune) beetles, cold drakes, unicorns, and naja can all become amazing pets.
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Wow. Wait til K reads that! I can't agree because they have different damages and many things have low fire resist.
This is why I want all pets to be able to achieve the same base builds, so we have more options. And we can use the type we like.
SouthPaw
Lore Master
Only thing I can't compare is damage types. But like I've seen you post many times, match the pet to the monster. I thought a lot of things have low cold resist, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't know what overall breakdown is for mobs resists. As a discord tamer that matters a bit less for me.
In a fight with no intervention between my legacy mare and my Cu, I'm betting the Cu would win. Their max HP is very close, but Cu has healing and bleed, and mare has dragon breath. Actually I can promise you the Cu would win because mare has lower cold resist and Cu has good fire resist.
In a fight with no intervention between my legacy mare and my Cu, I'm betting the Cu would win. Their max HP is very close, but Cu has healing and bleed, and mare has dragon breath. Actually I can promise you the Cu would win because mare has lower cold resist and Cu has good fire resist.
I also strongly believe that they should not touch the legacy pets : The reasons are nicely stated by Celt above. They are really not OP. Lots of them are mementos, and they have sentimental value for players, and I think that alone should be respected. They do not create a balancing issue in the game, really. They have lasted for decades some, and it would be wrong for the game to mess with them at all. Leave well enough alone. It is bad enough what happened to the PP dragons. Dont add insult to injury or oil in the fire. Do not advocate what will hurt your fellow players and create a lot of negativity.
SouthPaw
Lore Master
Agreed. I'm happy I have my 3 legacy pets, but it's not like they "make the game" for me. Without them I'd still have my Cu, unicorn's, and hiryu's that all kick butt too! One of my favorite pets is my Hell Hound and it can't even get to 5 slot. I'm currently working on a rune beetle that is very strong and loads of fun.
Cu/Lesser Hiryu's fresh tamed or whatever are undoubtedly better than any other pet in basic PvM but Magery/Mage Mastery/Necro/High Resisting spells/190 DEX/Dismount abilities etc have their place outside of basic PvM and can be used in PvP and other specific circumstances.
I believe you could possibly be underestimating the slight advantages legacy pets have outside of PvM, no I do not want to see a Dragon with 300 odd STR more than it should have in Felucca against me when I am a tamer myself, void of that option because I wasn't playing the game Pub 96. I'll say again I have no issues with them getting their pets online and capable of accepting Animal Training but they need to be nerfed in line with what you can fresh tame now or they are having a sly advantage over others, do I need to mention the imbuing weight of 300 STR or a Dragon having an extra slot? What about new players who like Dragons, legacy players "screw em!".
The reality is there are no 3 slot dragons. All “legacy” dragons go to 4 slot when one starts training, which is in line with current spawning dragons.
Legacy white wyrms will have limited utility.
Legacy nightmares, will all nightmares, (that I have seen being used) are fairly squishy. Even though I have trained one up myself, I still default to one of my cu’s.
Lastly, I’d love to see a “magery/magery mastery/necro/high resisting spells(190 dex/dismount pet”
Even I’d call foul on that pet
Legacy white wyrms will have limited utility.
Legacy nightmares, will all nightmares, (that I have seen being used) are fairly squishy. Even though I have trained one up myself, I still default to one of my cu’s.
Lastly, I’d love to see a “magery/magery mastery/necro/high resisting spells(190 dex/dismount pet”
Even I’d call foul on that pet
Jeez, alot of hate on legacy pets. Yes, they are better than the same pet type non legacy....as they should be. A cu is a better pet in most situations. A dragonwolf can mimic over capped strength and spawn 3 slot, which is basically the same as a legacy dragon.
I would not change legacy pets. What i would like is for shadow wyrms to not be completely pointless.
I would not change legacy pets. What i would like is for shadow wyrms to not be completely pointless.
This is what this forum is for free speech to a decent point, and opinions most of which are personal, Deadly.
You are respectfully entitled to your opinion. I am willing to bet you that most people disagree with the opinion to nerf the PP pets.
With your rationale they should nerf or delete all the banes and dreadmares also? They are also OP? Why stop at the PP nightmares, and PP WW's and PP dragons? And how about the paragon color Cu's? paragon color Cus are perhaps THE most overpowered pet in the game : They go for 1.5 - 2.5 Billion gold - Plats. Gold in this game buys lots of things. Imagine the 2 Plat gold pot not being power! So they should also be with no paragon color lets tweak them to a black color? or maybe pure white? Also exp. but not 2 plat.
Lets not stop there : Lets go after the Cus : They are OP also, look at the posts above : make them start at 4 slots again? Hey wait theres more : The poor slithering Naja is he also OP? Nerf it..And we can go down the like because some people believe that there is such a pet that can be good with PvP. (Hate to bring PvP into this but it was mentioned and got no choice). Maybe they should start taming with a "clean slate" and delete all pets and have everyone tame the present day pets? All these you'd think will make a more balanced game? And do you think that will improve happiness and player satisfaction in the game? No Sir, mistaken.
Oh and lets do this so that the 200-300 new subscribers if that, should be happy and have an "even game" with the several thousands of people that have played for 20 years? Or the 10 people in the game that TRY to PvP with their pets by killing non-PvP or other lousy quality NOOB PvPers? Lets be serious Deadly.
Tamers and tamers playstyle is not PVP so any nerf of any pets pertaining to PvP is not fair to the majority of tamers that of course do no PvP with their pets. There can not be any pet that is any good for PvP. We have proven that by testing every pet and spec in my guild. They are all nerfed for PVP, one of them did some debuffs and the player (whos DCI was only 20) survived, and if there was a PvP instance the pet owner would have died several times over.
Legacy pets do not create a game imbalance, since they are really not OP: There are better pets than them with the pet upgrade. Also they are not exactly flooding the gates so you will not even see many at all.
Legacy pets create a jealousy : "I wish I had a PP mare or WW or bane or dread". Well for people that are hot about them they can GO BUY one. I saw a bane scrolled and all in ATL on a vendor for 160 M trained and scrolled. Admittedly he was kinda wrong spec'd etc, but he is still a bane : He has a secret weapon - passive LP. Go buy a PP mare or PP WW, for those that want them.
I think that the PP Dragon issue arose when one of the devs saw that the Dragons could spawn at 3 slots and FRIEKED out and she was screaming at the team, there was no consoling her. Something personal about the 3 slot dragons.
We have been through a lot of nerfs to pets and pet training, some were announced,and many many were unannounced or ninja nerfs.
I can see nerfing that was needed for PvP and most of us did not cream bloody murder about it. We are not PvP'ers -- Not with our pets. I can see nerfing or even deleting pets that are hacked/expoited -- You go against the TOS and the book can and should be thrown at you. Most of us agree with that.
But in no way shape or form they should touch the legacy pets. They were acquired honestly, did not get hacked, did not get exploited. They were just owned simply and squarely, or purchased,which is the same.
**Please do not advocate changes that will hurt the taming community.**
We had enough nerfs ninja and otherwise, already.
The legacy pets are ok as they are, and my opinion is I suspect most tamers opinion, whether they own legacy pets or not : to leave them alone.
They DO NOT affect my game, whatsoever. It is hard to see how they are affecting other players game, other than make them jealous that they all destroyed their PP mares and WWs when the pet upgrade came out. I did that also -- and feel bad about it. But it is too late now, that cannot be fixed. But allow the people that were wise to keep their legacy pets as they are.
If I wanted a PP mare or WW or bane or Dread, I would like to have the option to go buy one when I make the gold for it, and if I still wanted it.
Also my opinion is that they should allow the PP dragons their previous slot number. I think they made a mistake to nerf their slots.
**Thou shall NOT nerf**
You are respectfully entitled to your opinion. I am willing to bet you that most people disagree with the opinion to nerf the PP pets.
With your rationale they should nerf or delete all the banes and dreadmares also? They are also OP? Why stop at the PP nightmares, and PP WW's and PP dragons? And how about the paragon color Cu's? paragon color Cus are perhaps THE most overpowered pet in the game : They go for 1.5 - 2.5 Billion gold - Plats. Gold in this game buys lots of things. Imagine the 2 Plat gold pot not being power! So they should also be with no paragon color lets tweak them to a black color? or maybe pure white? Also exp. but not 2 plat.
Lets not stop there : Lets go after the Cus : They are OP also, look at the posts above : make them start at 4 slots again? Hey wait theres more : The poor slithering Naja is he also OP? Nerf it..And we can go down the like because some people believe that there is such a pet that can be good with PvP. (Hate to bring PvP into this but it was mentioned and got no choice). Maybe they should start taming with a "clean slate" and delete all pets and have everyone tame the present day pets? All these you'd think will make a more balanced game? And do you think that will improve happiness and player satisfaction in the game? No Sir, mistaken.
Oh and lets do this so that the 200-300 new subscribers if that, should be happy and have an "even game" with the several thousands of people that have played for 20 years? Or the 10 people in the game that TRY to PvP with their pets by killing non-PvP or other lousy quality NOOB PvPers? Lets be serious Deadly.
Tamers and tamers playstyle is not PVP so any nerf of any pets pertaining to PvP is not fair to the majority of tamers that of course do no PvP with their pets. There can not be any pet that is any good for PvP. We have proven that by testing every pet and spec in my guild. They are all nerfed for PVP, one of them did some debuffs and the player (whos DCI was only 20) survived, and if there was a PvP instance the pet owner would have died several times over.
Legacy pets do not create a game imbalance, since they are really not OP: There are better pets than them with the pet upgrade. Also they are not exactly flooding the gates so you will not even see many at all.
Legacy pets create a jealousy : "I wish I had a PP mare or WW or bane or dread". Well for people that are hot about them they can GO BUY one. I saw a bane scrolled and all in ATL on a vendor for 160 M trained and scrolled. Admittedly he was kinda wrong spec'd etc, but he is still a bane : He has a secret weapon - passive LP. Go buy a PP mare or PP WW, for those that want them.
I think that the PP Dragon issue arose when one of the devs saw that the Dragons could spawn at 3 slots and FRIEKED out and she was screaming at the team, there was no consoling her. Something personal about the 3 slot dragons.
We have been through a lot of nerfs to pets and pet training, some were announced,and many many were unannounced or ninja nerfs.
I can see nerfing that was needed for PvP and most of us did not cream bloody murder about it. We are not PvP'ers -- Not with our pets. I can see nerfing or even deleting pets that are hacked/expoited -- You go against the TOS and the book can and should be thrown at you. Most of us agree with that.
But in no way shape or form they should touch the legacy pets. They were acquired honestly, did not get hacked, did not get exploited. They were just owned simply and squarely, or purchased,which is the same.
**Please do not advocate changes that will hurt the taming community.**
We had enough nerfs ninja and otherwise, already.
The legacy pets are ok as they are, and my opinion is I suspect most tamers opinion, whether they own legacy pets or not : to leave them alone.
They DO NOT affect my game, whatsoever. It is hard to see how they are affecting other players game, other than make them jealous that they all destroyed their PP mares and WWs when the pet upgrade came out. I did that also -- and feel bad about it. But it is too late now, that cannot be fixed. But allow the people that were wise to keep their legacy pets as they are.
If I wanted a PP mare or WW or bane or Dread, I would like to have the option to go buy one when I make the gold for it, and if I still wanted it.
Also my opinion is that they should allow the PP dragons their previous slot number. I think they made a mistake to nerf their slots.
**Thou shall NOT nerf**
Again some people are failing to see this issue, a Dragon has free Magery and is a magical creature, if you were going to pvp with a pet you want it with Magery/Necro/Ninjitsu/Mysticism ideally. The point I was trying to make was fresh tame's ingame don't compete with 3 slot PP dragon's and WW's if you are after a pet with Magery, 1 of a handful of ideal choices for PvP pets and not yet has one person told me a proper and equal alternative! @celticus I don't particularly care on your opinion about taming pvp as it's a weak argument, as far as i'm aware on UO and PvP 95% of UO's playerbase doesn't bother with PvP because of how rich the PvM/Treasure/Housing/Deco and rare item finding content is, only hungry Alpha's who usually hard focus on the "most effective method of killing found" really bother with PvP, it's really an untested platform, also I can tell you right now a seriously good minded PvP'er with taming in his template would use fake taming skill (using jewels), never real, not even close to GM taming/lore real.
There is an art to crafting templates and tricks to be discovered, people think Sampires are the only class to solo roof and new doom, ha! Sadly a lot of people just follow "the meta" and hear say and they don't theory craft themselves, there are a lot of viable templates if you know everything about the UO system.
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Obviously you don't pvp nor do you have experience with Legacy dragons.
1. Legacy Dragons and Wyrms cannot go past 125 Dex. Dex is pet movement speed. In pvp you want pets with fast moment speed, hopefully overcapped.
2. Legacy Dragons and Wyrms are not rideable. (see point 1)
3. Trained Legacy Dragons actually do less melee damage than other trainable pets against players. Yes, it appears their damage is capped in PvP and any 700 strength pet will do more damage than them.
So.... a slow bulky pet that you cannot ride in pvp and does less damage than 700 str pets.... Yeah, it must be what pvpers are wanting.
I recall your spec from a year ago when you last posted on the forums. yes, there is an art to crafting templates, it's getting the highest imbued +skills jewelry you can get so you can have the lowest skills (taming/lore) as possible and to not bother with vet when you can just run peace songs.~
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I know this it was a simple typo as I was trying to quickly post during lunch. I have corrected plenty of people on the forum with the difference between stam and dex.
SouthPaw
Lore Master
Even with the mistype your post still has a valid point; PP dragins/wyrms are going to move slower than pets with 150+ DEX. I never PVP, but if I was going to try it I'd want the highest dex pet I could find and/or something with magery mastery that teleports.I know this it was a simple typo as I was trying to quickly post during lunch. I have corrected plenty of people on the forum with the difference between stam and dex.
I know what you are saying Deadly..I think may be you left just after the pet-pvp nerf? Pet damage to players has been greatly lowered. So the most effective PVP player would be pretty unlikely to use pets. Also pets in general would mostly do a poor job defending you at spawns if that is you concern.
As an example of a pet actually with superior spec than PP dragons and WW and Mares : Dragonwolf with super overcapped str and hps?
The tamers that own PP pets Dragons, PP WW's mares, banes, and Dreads doubtfully are in a better position PVP-wise, plus they do NOT PvP, most do not. The pet-PVP nerf is real. You can test that in our guild if you are interested. PP pets do not create a game imbalance for PVP or PVM.
I think they should allow the 3-slot dragons back to where they were, for many reasons, and none of these reasons involve PvP.
I agree with you on one thing only : You can craft a template with the correct skill-set, correct armor and ads, and minimal taming/lore, and you can try to use a pet for distraction mainly. You can tell our pet to -all kill- the other player, but YOU are going to be doing most of the damage, not the pet. Then you most certainly be killed fairly promptly by the expert Red...Since your template including armor cannot possibly compare to theirs. If you are interested in PVP there are great PVP guilds many places, esp ATL. You can join up with one and learn the tricks of the trade.
I think nerfing PP pets due to concerns about PVP abilities of pets is ufounded and not justified. Please read the forum notes on pvp-pet nerf, they are close to 1 yr old but fairly accurate..Unless they changed pet damage vs players, which I doubt very much, and it will not happen.
Also : It is unfounded posts like these that cause more nerfs, and a lot of grief on pp pet owners, and other pets that the nerf cannon is pointing at now or will be pointing at shortly...Again and again: I hope the devs will see the light and reinstate the 3-slot pp dragons..but will not hold breath of course.
If Legacy has been giving a further % nerf by dev team I wasn't aware, if that is truly the case I wish you all the best for legacy return but from the looks of it they don't seem confident to get them back in a state they would like which makes me quite curious their thoughts on it.
Yes this template business! If I manage to stay in the game long enough (sometimes I can't parry the distraction of other online games!) I'm pretty confident I can engineer a toon that is as proper a class on UO as you can get, completely versatile, doesn't excel at anything but ticks all categories (peace mastery/taming/resist spells/magery and eval/plenty of DCI). As long as the devs don't do anything nasty, Sampire's are just the kings of real skill but anyway off topic a bit here!