Not so great Greater Dragons

[Lady Aalia]

I know the greaters are a nice addition for the tamer and are nice for the well trained warrior to fight....

but do they have to spawn in every dragon location?

I used to love taking my close to GM chars to destard for training and allways had plenty others to chat with while fighting...

Now Destard is nearly empty of people and full of greaters ...

i dont want them all removed, just maybe a location or 2 that they wont spawn in... like lets say keep em in destard but non at deamon temple or something like it.

with the skills beeing dependend on monster lvls its hard to get a decent spot to acctually train a character where it doesnt get killed or overan by spawn and no i cannot train prov on a golem

 

[Shanny]

So what you want is an easier way to play the game so you do not have to work as hard?

 

[RichDC]

All these new dragons have done is made it like the days of old, When a drake was as hard as the dragons and the dragons where as hard as the greaters.

I say...BRING ON MORE BEEFED UP SPAWN!

(obviously make the loot beefed up as well )

 

[ejpeters]

I agree with you. I used to love to fight at Destard now it is nearly impossible for a training character. I don't want things easy but a spot with only one or two greaters would be nice.

 

[onthefifty]

well. it is destard, sorta like the fenway park for dragons. it shouldn't play like new haven. sorry but all things do and will change in life, some better some worse.

 

[Lord Drakelord]

Ya to bad they cannot do like the far back caven in Destard, all that spawns back there are Drakes, Wyrms, and Water Ele's. Great place to go if just wanting to training up a char or tame a few Drakes for the zoo. No Dragons or Greater Dragons back there. If you don't have a rune back there, you should mark one for your non mage characters and train back there.

 

[Lady Aalia]

you didnt read my post...

I am not asking to have them all nerved or an easy way...

I am asking for one location the normal way.
Easy mode would be like most do it now stable them in some pen in your house and prov away... i am not doing that eather...

I dont think its too much to ask to take a 80-90 skill character to work the skill without beeing constantly killed.

 

[Budweiser]

you didnt read my post...

I am not asking to have them all nerved or an easy way...

I am asking for one location the normal way.
Easy mode would be like most do it now stable them in some pen in your house and prov away... i am not doing that eather...

I dont think its too much to ask to take a 80-90 skill character to work the skill without beeing constantly killed.

Your missing the other poster's point. Pre Tram. Both locations you mentioned you'd never think of going alone. I remember befor tram it was insane to go into destard alone. And D temple...forget it...I remember killing my first drake alone. Took me awhile at GM skills..now most people can two or three hit kill one and not lose any HP. All EA has done is make it challenging again. I say yay to that. As for working skill....stick to monsters at your skill level maybe? If you know the fire is hot....don't touch it.

 

[RichDC]

Your missing the other poster's point. Pre Tram. Both locations you mentioned you'd never think of going alone. I remember befor tram it was insane to go into destard alone. And D temple...forget it...I remember killing my first drake alone. Took me awhile at GM skills..now most people can two or three hit kill one and not lose any HP. All EA has done is make it challenging again. I say yay to that. As for working skill....stick to monsters at your skill level maybe? If you know the fire is hot....don't touch it.

Exactly, I think destard is to be honest, the only dungeon that still represents a definitive challenge on every level! Hythloth to an extent but the Balrons cant open doors so you can keep them seperate.

Every other dungeon, from entrance to deepest depths you can make in basic armour nowadays...could never do that pre aos!

 

[Lady Aalia]

i am sorry but pre trammel is so ummm... pre trammel ago

aye you couldnt go in there alone, but what did you have GM armor at best.

the dragons where introduced last year and so before that for 8 years, it was the norm that at that skill level you went to destart and or Deamon temple,

the regular dragon are still a challenge for a non GM character and no i am not one of those artied out to the teeth players...

I guess i am failing to see all those points since i have never played pretram...

But i would acctually like to go out and enjoy gaining skill well in real gameplay then bashing on a golem or sitting and beeing casted on by spellbinders...

 

[RichDC]

But i would acctually like to go out and enjoy gaining skill well in real gameplay then bashing on a golem or sitting and beeing casted on by spellbinders...

Try Blood Elementals or Elder Gazers in Shame.

They should still provide a challenge to the non-gm'd chars.

I think the point, well i know one i was trying to make, was that as players evolve and get stronger...so should the dungeons. As more players can beat things with more ease, there should be dungeons new player "fear" they should run scared at the sight of dragons(greaters) and watch in awe as a more experienced player takes it. All this means is that other dungeons should start to see more use.

 

[Farsight]

Your missing the other poster's point. Pre Tram. Both locations you mentioned you'd never think of going alone. I remember befor tram it was insane to go into destard alone. And D temple...forget it...I remember killing my first drake alone. Took me awhile at GM skills..now most people can two or three hit kill one and not lose any HP. All EA has done is make it challenging again. I say yay to that. As for working skill....stick to monsters at your skill level maybe? If you know the fire is hot....don't touch it.

Pre Tram, I used to hunt in Destard alone more than anywhere else.

It was easier then for the bard than it is now. Thanks to not having difficulty based provoking or line of sight or range requirements to keep them fighting, a single bard could literally have every creature down there fighting every other creature at once. (should have seen the gold I pulled out of there, at the time it was insane, and the reason for provoke changes)

But I like Destard the way it is now.

I also like the demon temple the way it is now.

But I agree that it would be nice to have a place where two dragons could spawn without the interference from a greater dragon, even if it is in an out of the way place (I like ki-rin passage for that, I hate paragon GDs when I'm looking for hides).

In the mean time, it isn't too difficult to just lead the greater dragons away (I like the east corner in Destard with the water elementals) and just provoking away until they respawn or someone leads them back out.

 

[Anon McDougle]

work on lesser and regular hiyrus about same as dragons but outside no breath or magic attack and nice ($wise) loot

now if someone would explain why a feathered dragon like creature has neither scales or feathers.......................................

 

[Harb]

I understand your viewpoint Avenhar, and am supportive of dev taking a good hard look and resetting spawn overall again to fit the needs of the player base. On the specifics of Destard, the issue cuts both ways, I hadn't been there for years prior to introduction of greaters, but frequent the place again as a result. I guess it depends on where a player's characters are, but I do agree that evrybody at every level should have somewhere to play and enjoy. And there is a lot of land, and a lot of spawn, for folks at every level today. So while I think a relook would be nice, I'm not sure its really necessary.

 

[Maplestone]

What do people normally hunt for barbed hides these days? (I still top up my stockpile in destard, but only with my tamer ... fighting fire with fire)

 

[Harb]

What do people normally hunt for barbed hides these days?

If I'm reading the pre-release info correctly on imbuing, it seems to me that barbed/ horned hides will go the way of the dinosaur.

 

[Aboo]

Your missing the other poster's point.

I think you are missing the OP point. She is not asking for the dragons to be nerfed, just that there be a place where only regular dragons spawn, no greater dragons which is, in my opinion, a reasonable request.

Pre Tram. Both locations you mentioned you'd never think of going alone. I remember befor tram it was insane to go into destard alone. And D temple...forget it...I remember killing my first drake alone. Took me awhile at GM skills..now most people can two or three hit kill one and not lose any HP. All EA has done is make it challenging again. I say yay to that. As for working skill....stick to monsters at your skill level maybe? If you know the fire is hot....don't touch it.

I get tired of people saying remember back when you couldn't do such and such alone. I do not think that just because back then you couldn't do something alone should mean diddly squat now. The game today is not the same game as back then.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

Agree. I used Destard as a helping place for fighters. I'd cross-heal them for only any gems - they could keep the gold and hides. Then if no one needed that help I'd mostly just get the hides and gems with the gold and other stuff on the floor for anyone.

Why not handle greaters like Lurg in Painted Caves? they can spawn all they want in certain back caves of the levels ... or on lower levels. If you trigger their aggro then they can follow you around! Level 1 of ANY dungeon should be the weaker of the dungeon denizens with the stronger/nastier ones down lower.

<shrug> I guess it makes just too much sense, huh?

 

[Tina Small]

Avenhar, it appears that regular dragons have a barding difficulty of 105. I used the Stratics Hunters Guide search page (http://uo.stratics.com/database/search.php?db_content=hunters) to enter a barding difficulty of 105 and got 44 results. Have you tried using that tool yet to see if there might be some other creatures that will give you good provoke gains and maybe get you visiting some new areas?

Edited to add: I think you might also get an interesting list from that tool if you put in a Bard rating of 8.

 

[Gowron]

i am sorry but pre trammel is so ummm... pre trammel ago

aye you couldnt go in there alone, but what did you have GM armor at best.

the dragons where introduced last year and so before that for 8 years, it was the norm that at that skill level you went to destart and or Deamon temple,

the regular dragon are still a challenge for a non GM character and no i am not one of those artied out to the teeth players...

I guess i am failing to see all those points since i have never played pretram...

But i would acctually like to go out and enjoy gaining skill well in real gameplay then bashing on a golem or sitting and beeing casted on by spellbinders...

Your points are valid, yet so are the responses. As UO was really never intended to be a "solo" game, my best recommendation is to gather a few other folks and be supported. I'm sure that while you want to train skills, there are other folks who wouldn't be opposed to doing things like farming gold, hides, and scales to cover while you work.

 

[Basara]

What do people normally hunt for barbed hides these days? (I still top up my stockpile in destard, but only with my tamer ... fighting fire with fire)

Barbed:
Serpentine dragons - especially the ones at stage 4 of the Oaks Spawns. Once your karma drops too far, switch to WW to get karma back up while still collecting Barbed.

Horned:
Wyvern at the Trammel T2A Lighthouse, or Tram/Fel T2A Wyvern Island.
Also, if you're willing to take the karma hit, the kir-rins and unicorns at Oaks Spawn.

Also, one can just go to the Ki-rin passage and farm the ki-rin for horned, and the Nightmare for the barbed.

Typically, Oaks is your one-stop leather center, because not only do you get a chance at replicas, and Scrolls (SoT and/or PS, depending on facet), you can get Horned off the horse-like creatures in the spawn, barbed off the drags, and even spined off the Centaurs. I just brought back about 300 barbed from doing one Oaks last night, and about 50 horned where the wisps or centaurs I provoked onto ki-rins or unis got lucky, and actually WON (80%+ of the time, the ki-rin or Uni doesn't drop below half HP by the time the wisp or centaur dies)

This stuff has been discussed at length in the Craftsman & Players Center forums.

 

[Maplestone]

Barbed:
Serpentine dragons - especially the ones at stage 4 of the Oaks Spawns. Once your karma drops too far, switch to WW to get karma back up while still collecting Barbed.

*gasp*

that ... that ... it just can't be good for your karma to game karma that way.

 

[Vyric]

Last night a 9PM EST on Catskills I went to Destard to lore some greaters looking for an upgrade. Not one single person there. My tamer/mage is already fully trained and so is my greater. Even with greaters roaming everywhere, Destard provides little challenge. I go there when I need hides or to look for upgrades. So basically, you now have another area of the game that's no challenge for the trained or too tough for the "in training" crowd. Meanwhile I can show you right now 3 different houses with Cu's on the roof being discorded non-stop. Nice job Devs is all I have to say.

Anyways, for my current bard in training, I go to the Fan Dancer Dojo. In the very 1st room are 2 Fan Dancers with an almost instant re-pop. You can Disco and Provoke there all day long if you wish.

 

[Aboo]

. . .As UO was really never intended to be a "solo" game . . .

I'm curious why you say/think this? I've always felt that UO was meant to be whatever you wanted whether it be a solo game or a group game. It's not like EQ where you HAD to group to level up. I believe you can solo raise any skill to GM that you wish to in UO. If I am mistaken correct me with the pertinent information please as to which skill(s) that you cannot GM solo.

 

[Foolio the Bard]

Training Provocation is easy. All you need is a house, a bunch of crystal statue deeds, and a couple animals...

 

[Aboo]

Training Provocation is easy. All you need is a house, a bunch of crystal statue deeds, and a couple animals...

Okay I'll bite, how do crystal statue deeds have anything to do with training provocation?

 

[Connor_Graham]

I'm curious why you say/think this? I've always felt that UO was meant to be whatever you wanted whether it be a solo game or a group game. It's not like EQ where you HAD to group to level up. I believe you can solo raise any skill to GM that you wish to in UO. If I am mistaken correct me with the pertinent information please as to which skill(s) that you cannot GM solo.

Some people are just jealous that they're not good enough to do much without a group of 40 people to help them. Don't pay any attention to them, they're just haters.

 

[the 4th man]

Exactly, I think destard is to be honest, the only dungeon that still represents a definitive challenge on every level! Hythloth to an extent but the Balrons cant open doors so you can keep them seperate.

Every other dungeon, from entrance to deepest depths you can make in basic armour nowadays...could never do that pre aos!

Yeah right.....if you're a die hard player and don't have a life.
I hate when the lifeless speak as if they represent every UO player out there.

I agree with the original poster, the greaters don't have to spawn in every location normal dragons do.

later

 

[Foolio the Bard]

Okay I'll bite, how do crystal statue deeds have anything to do with training provocation?

Well, it doesn't HAVE to be crystal statue deeds. Other things work too... Globes of Sosaria, for example.

Training provocation is a freaking nitemare compared to training things like weapon skills and healing. Here is a pic of the scene happening right now outside Luna on my shard...

Trapping a couple swamp dragons in your house behind crystal statues and provoking them on each other = NOT LEGAL
Beating a golem senseless with a 100% poison weapon while healing a ghost on your 2nd account = LEGAL


So spare me the "OMG SPLOITZ!" stuff... UO's policies are completely uneven and biased towards us bards.

 

[Aboo]

Some people are just jealous that they're not good enough to do much without a group of 40 people to help them. Don't pay any attention to them, they're just haters.

I truly needed a laugh today which you have just provided. Thank you Connor and I will heed your advice!

 

[Shanny]

The whole point is not every square inch of Destard is filled with Greater’s. Go where they are not at in Destard. Run around, use invisibility when they target you, ect. The point is play the game not just complain you want a spot where there are no Greaters because they may kill you

 

[Connor_Graham]

I truly needed a laugh today which you have just provided. Thank you Connor and I will heed your advice!

Any day in which you bring laughter to others is a day well spent.

Always glad to be of help!

 

[Connor_Graham]

The whole point is not every square inch of Destard is filled with Greater’s. Go where they are not at in Destard.

The only problem with this is that any dragon killed has the chance to respawn as a GD, thus making this suggestion null and void. Not that it matters to me either way. I've got 4 chars that can kill anything in there so I don't worry about it too much. Then again I'm not one of those ones that need 40 other people in order to feel like I'm playing a game according to somebody else's definition of it.

 

[Anon McDougle]

ok i am dumb why are they healing the ghost ???

Well, it doesn't HAVE to be crystal statue deeds. Other things work too... Globes of Sosaria, for example.

Training provocation is a freaking nitemare compared to training things like weapon skills and healing. Here is a pic of the scene happening right now outside Luna on my shard...

Trapping a couple swamp dragons in your house behind crystal statues and provoking them on each other = NOT LEGAL
Beating a golem senseless with a 100% poison weapon while healing a ghost on your 2nd account = LEGAL


So spare me the "OMG SPLOITZ!" stuff... UO's policies are completely uneven and biased towards us bards.

 

[Tina Small]

The only problem with this is that any dragon killed has the chance to respawn as a GD, thus making this suggestion null and void.

Are you certain about this? I always see only five greater dragons in Destard Trammel. Have never counted the regular ones. I am pretty sure that a new greater dragon only spawns as a replacement for one that was just killed.

 

[Vertigo]

Train herding up to about 85 (which takes about an hour anyway) and herd the G dragons to somewhere else. Problem solved.

 

[Dragonchilde]

Ghost healing gives healing gains. Fastest way to GM healing.

As for Destard... do what I do. HERDING. Herd the greatersaway to a nice back corner, come back and kill the stuff you want. Lather, rinse, repeat. No l33t items, no teams, no real difficulty.

Now, if you really want a laugh, do this in Fel.. only hunt in the back, and herd the greaters to the entrance.

 

[Harlequin]

At 90ish provo, Daemons might be a better bet.
At GM'ish, Lesser hiryus (like someone already said, no fire breath and no spells!).

Also, see this page:

http://uo.stratics.com/content/skills/bardingdifficulty.php

 

[Harlequin]

Train herding up to about 85 (which takes about an hour anyway) and herd the G dragons to somewhere else. Problem solved.

Ghost healing gives healing gains. Fastest way to GM healing.

As for Destard... do what I do. HERDING. Herd the greatersaway to a nice back corner, come back and kill the stuff you want. Lather, rinse, repeat. No l33t items, no teams, no real difficulty.

Now, if you really want a laugh, do this in Fel.. only hunt in the back, and herd the greaters to the entrance.

Herding FTW! Esp stealth herders!

 

[Lady Aalia]

thanks to all the hints

when i use herding... will they all stay in one spot or wander around?

oh and i refuse to use the crystal statues thinngy...

still be nice to have one spot without them but for now i think ima gona beat on hiryus till i get herding up somehow... and stealth and hiding and ummm where am i gonna put that all...

*sigh*

 

[Harlequin]

thanks to all the hints

when i use herding... will they all stay in one spot or wander around?

oh and i refuse to use the crystal statues thinngy...

still be nice to have one spot without them but for now i think ima gona beat on hiryus till i get herding up somehow... and stealth and hiding and ummm where am i gonna put that all...

*sigh*

If you herd them on to you, they'll keep following you. If you herd them to a spot, they'll go there and then they will wander about.

As to fitting the skills, if you don't want to bother with soul stones, use a differnt char. I have it on my doom thief.

Once lured away, you can log out and get your other char.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Are you certain about this? I always see only five greater dragons in Destard Trammel. Have never counted the regular ones. I am pretty sure that a new greater dragon only spawns as a replacement for one that was just killed.

Pretty certain. Some days I go in and there's more Drag's than GD's and others more GD's than Drags.


Or it could just be a good batch of drugs this month...

 

[RichDC]

Yeah right.....if you're a die hard player and don't have a life.
I hate when the lifeless speak as if they represent every UO player out there.

I agree with the original poster, the greaters don't have to spawn in every location normal dragons do.

later

I hate it when people draw assumptions about other peoples gaming habits. Then because they obviously cant handle the heat try and flame the cook!

The greaters spawn where they spawn and how they spawn keeps the game entertaining for those of us whom have played the game for years and know what we can and cant handle...dont like it go play with mongbats, maybe there more to your level.:loser:

 

[Aboo]

I hate it when people draw assumptions about other peoples gaming habits. Then because they obviously cant handle the heat try and flame the cook!

The greaters spawn where they spawn and how they spawn keeps the game entertaining for those of us whom have played the game for years and know what we can and cant handle...dont like it go play with mongbats, maybe there more to your level.:loser:

I've played for years and don't share your idea of what's entertaining and what's not. So the assumption you drew about MY gaming habits is incorrect.

I see no problem with having ONE area where only dragons spawn and NOT greater dragons. Or there can be an area where it's done like the hiryus. There are several lesser hiryus that spawn but only ONE hiryu.

 

[RichDC]

I've played for years and don't share your idea of what's entertaining and what's not. So the assumption you drew about MY gaming habits is incorrect.

I see no problem with having ONE area where only dragons spawn and NOT greater dragons. Or there can be an area where it's done like the hiryus. There are several lesser hiryus that spawn but only ONE hiryu.

I made no assumption about your game style, i stated that people who know how to handle it enjoy the added risk.(maybe that was a broad statement)

I dont as such see a problem with an area where they can have only normal dragons...so long as its not destard. I took offence to the personal insult of the post.

 

[Aboo]

I made no assumption about your game style, i stated that people who know how to handle it enjoy the added risk.(maybe that was a broad statement) . . .

Yes it was a broad statement, too broad in my opinion. I have played for 11+ years, I know how to handle the added risk, but that doesn't mean I want to have to each time I hunt dragons.

I understand you like it and that's great. But for some it's not fun so some area where maybe just 1 greater dragon spawns and the rest are regular dragons would be a good idea. Destard probably wouldn't be a good choice, but maybe the fire temple?

 

[RichDC]

Yes it was a broad statement, too broad in my opinion. I have played for 11+ years, I know how to handle the added risk, but that doesn't mean I want to have to each time I hunt dragons.

I understand you like it and that's great. But for some it's not fun so some area where maybe just 1 greater dragon spawns and the rest are regular dragons would be a good idea. Destard probably wouldn't be a good choice, but maybe the fire temple?

Ok, ill retract the broad statement then. I personally dont think fire would be a good choice either, with the high amount of demon spawn around the area isnt an area suited for dragon hunting. If anywhere it should be in the wilderness, possibly humility champ area.

The reason i say this is because Dragons in the wild probably wouldnt "grow old" enough to be greaters, ones in dungeons would.

 

[Tina Small]

I've played for years and don't share your idea of what's entertaining and what's not. So the assumption you drew about MY gaming habits is incorrect.

I see no problem with having ONE area where only dragons spawn and NOT greater dragons. Or there can be an area where it's done like the hiryus. There are several lesser hiryus that spawn but only ONE hiryu.

Aboo, I believe the dragon spawn area in the "elemental canyon" area in Ilshenar only contains one greater dragon. I'm not sure how many regular dragons it normally includes though. And of course that one GD could spawn as a paragon. Might be worth checking out if you haven't been there in a while.

One of the ways I get to the elemental canyon (I think it's also called the Kirin Passage) is via the Ankh Dungeon. As shown on the mage on this page (http://uo.stratics.com/content/atlas/ilshenar-ankh.php), I generally enter the Ankh Dungeon at "A" and leave it at "B." If you scroll further down that page, you'll also see a map of the Kirin Passage. I believe the dragons spawn in the large grassy area on the left side.

Edited to add: Went and checked out the dragon spawn area in the Kirin Passage. It seems to include one greater dragon, one regular dragon, two drakes, and lots of greater mongbats.

 

[Aboo]

. . . If anywhere it should be in the wilderness, possibly humility champ area.

The reason i say this is because Dragons in the wild probably wouldnt "grow old" enough to be greaters, ones in dungeons would.

I like your thinking, well thought out!

 

[Aboo]

Aboo, I believe the dragon spawn area in the "elemental canyon" area in Ilshenar only contains one greater dragon. I'm not sure how many regular dragons it normally includes though. And of course that one GD could spawn as a paragon. Might be worth checking out if you haven't been there in a while.

One of the ways I get to the elemental canyon (I think it's also called the Kirin Passage) is via the Ankh Dungeon. As shown on the mage on this page (http://uo.stratics.com/content/atlas/ilshenar-ankh.php), I generally enter the Ankh Dungeon at "A" and leave it at "B." If you scroll further down that page, you'll also see a map of the Kirin Passage. I believe the dragons spawn in the large grassy area on the left side.

Edited to add: Went and checked out the dragon spawn area in the Kirin Passage. It seems to include one greater dragon, one regular dragon, two drakes, and lots of greater mongbats.

Thank you Tina, I didn't know even know dragons spawned here. I will definitely check it out.