My semi annual runebook of player house update and state of housing on a shard.

[Guest]

To those that do not know I am a idocer on the Legends shard and since I only idoc I spend my time in uo doing anything to make my idocing more efficient for myself and my guild. One thing I do is how I scout for idocs. I actually go around every four months (or so) I redo them so I stay current of all the new houses placed within that cycle before they might start to decay. I know there is a few variables (and no I do not care about them because non of these are major factors) like the horrendous wbb houses and the few cross shard ed grandfathered houses on Legends (Legends isn't old enough for true grandfathered houses). Because of this (I know nothing is perfect but I cant think of a better gage) I get an idea how many active accounts are one Legends and what speed it is declining in.

As of June 2007 there were the following number of houses on each facet on Legends.

Trammel had 51 full rune books of player houses.
Malas had 51 full rune books of player houses.
Fel had 40 full rune books of player run houses.
Tok had 5 full rune books of player run houses.

As of Feb 1st this is the following numbers for each facet on Legends.

Trammel has 47 full rune books of player run houses.
Malas has 47 full rune books of player run houses.
Fel had 37 full rune books of player run houses.
Tok has 5 full rune books of player run houses.

 

[_Uriah Heep_]

interesting...
and taht drop is just on legends alone
ouch!

 

[Guest]

...

I don't know about the rest of LS, but I do know that there are several house spots that have opened up around Covetous mountain on Trammel on LS that have remained vacant for a month or longer. Also the road outside Vesper in the same area is NOTHING like it used to be in terms of active houses and vendors.

The dropoff IS noticeable.

 

[Guest]

*lifts a glass*

To absent friends.

 

[Theo_GL]

<blockquote><hr>


Trammel has 47 full rune books of player run houses.
Malas has 47 full rune books of player run houses.
Fel had 37 full rune books of player run houses.
Tok has 5 full rune books of player run houses.


[/ QUOTE ]

So, that is 136 rune books of houses. 16 runes in a book

Thats 2176 total houses.

Out of that - I would guess that 30-50% are houses that are bugged/banned/unowned/grandfathered houses/multiple accounts. So, about 1050-1400 active players on that shard. That might even be high.

If that is an average shard population - that would put all of UO's population at around 30,000-50,000. That sounds about right.

 

[Guest]

So that would pull in what? around $6,000,000 a year, I doubt they will pull the plug on a product pulling in that kind of revenue.
*Yay... the sky is not falling*

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

So that would pull in what? around $6,000,000 a year, I doubt they will pull the plug on a product pulling in that kind of revenue.
*Yay... the sky is not falling*

[/ QUOTE ]

True they may not pull the plug, but one has to wonder at those levels how much will they spend on Dev.

 

[Guest]

...

That'd be one of those things that'd be nice to know via an info dump/state of the game/"Hello I'm your producer and this is the plan for the future" type of post.

I think that might be the one thing that we can all agree on regardless of other opinions about the game... we need info!

 

[Guest]

(Out of that - I would guess that 30-50% are houses that are bugged/banned/unowned/grandfathered houses/multiple accounts. So, about 1050-1400 active players on that shard. That might even be high.)

Actaully the really old original banned houses that have no house owner name that are permamently staticed I do not putt in these runebooks. Also there are no trye grandfathered houses on Legends either. So I would honestly say maybe 10 - 20 percent at the very most fall into what would be catogoricily into houses not tied to an active account.

 

[Babble]

Sounds like a really empty shard as a shard should hold up to 5000 houses.
Read malas was made available for 1500 houses and I think Trammel and felucca could hold a little bit more.

 

[Guest]

2 things:

1. That's only about an 8 percent loss in player base which is less that I would have thought.

2. 51 FREAKING RUNE BOOKS OF HOUSES!!!!! WOW! Where do you find the time?

 

[kennykilleduo]

<blockquote><hr>

...

That'd be one of those things that'd be nice to know via an info dump/state of the game/"Hello I'm your producer and this is the plan for the future" type of post.

I think that might be the one thing that we can all agree on regardless of other opinions about the game... we need info!

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="red"> I think that might be the one thing that we can all agree on regardless of other opinions about the game... we need info! </font>

Yes we do , I dont see what is holding this up , UO Hall is full of doom and gloom , but it's reaching new levels...Our Community reps are (sadly) real quiet also..

 

[Sneaky Que]

<blockquote><hr>

So that would pull in what? around $6,000,000 a year, I doubt they will pull the plug on a product pulling in that kind of revenue.
*Yay... the sky is not falling*

[/ QUOTE ]

http://mmogdata.voig.com/Home.html

Latest subscriber count according to these guys is 110,000 (Oct 7th, 07). Not saying its 100% accurate but if it was that means assuming that everyone was paying for UO 1 month at a time at the $12.99 rate...

110,000 x $12.99 = $1,428,900 x 12months = $17,146,800

Based on that I think you could say that UO makes at least 1mill a month.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Based on that I think you could say that UO makes at least 1mill a month.


[/ QUOTE ]
Yup. And every penny of that profit is plowed into Warhammer online development. UO sees none of it.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

So that would pull in what? around $6,000,000 a year, I doubt they will pull the plug on a product pulling in that kind of revenue.
*Yay... the sky is not falling*

[/ QUOTE ]

http://mmogdata.voig.com/Home.html

Latest subscriber count according to these guys is 110,000 (Oct 7th, 07). Not saying its 100% accurate but if it was that means assuming that everyone was paying for UO 1 month at a time at the $12.99 rate...

110,000 x $12.99 = $1,428,900 x 12months = $17,146,800

Based on that I think you could say that UO makes at least 1mill a month.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly a lot of money.

They have to pay to maintain the servers, pay the salary of the developers, etc. etc.

In the end... it's not making a lot of money for the company

Compare it to WoW, with 10 million subscribers, making at least 129.9 million a month ($12.99/month), and making at most 149.9 million a month ($14.99/month. This is... well... sheesh. They make almost 10 times (Blizzard - WoW) more than EA (UO itself) does in a MONTH.

Just a thought.

 

[Spree]

I have a grandfathered house there. I the last time I played there the shard was called Aol Legends

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Compare it to WoW, with 10 million subscribers, making at least 129.9 million a month ($12.99/month), and making at most 149.9 million a month ($14.99/month. This is... well... sheesh. They make almost 10 times EA (UO itself) does in a MONTH.[/QUOTE]

WoW has had over ten million accounts created. They dont have ten million active. Dont get me wrong they have a crap load going and have alot of servers and most of the mare full, but they DONT have ten mil active accounts. As in uo there are alot of free trail accounts that were opened and counted in that number. I have prob six of those ten million my self!

But WoW does make a [censored] load more money than uo! And it keeps growing everyday! Especially with people like MR T promoting and now Toyota is using it to promote its products.

I wish uo would do something like that&gt;

 

[Kaj]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

So that would pull in what? around $6,000,000 a year, I doubt they will pull the plug on a product pulling in that kind of revenue.
*Yay... the sky is not falling*

[/ QUOTE ]

http://mmogdata.voig.com/Home.html

Latest subscriber count according to these guys is 110,000 (Oct 7th, 07). Not saying its 100% accurate but if it was that means assuming that everyone was paying for UO 1 month at a time at the $12.99 rate...

110,000 x $12.99 = $1,428,900 x 12months = $17,146,800

Based on that I think you could say that UO makes at least 1mill a month.

[/ QUOTE ]
You underestimate the costs of personnel, buildings, servers, bank/transfer costs, taxes etc.
But then again, there's also the income from ML codes, transfer tokens, 20% bank tokens etc.

WoW does however make a LOT of money. That game is a goldmine.

 

[Kratos Aurion]

<blockquote><hr>

2 things:

1. That's only about an 8 percent loss in player base which is less that I would have thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes Legends is a small shard. I habited it for probably around 2.5-3 years before I left. That still doesn't mean its not a significant decrease in players. That 8%+ the entire game populations decrease adds up.

other factors missed though:

1)cross sharding (those players might just be going to live else where)
2)smaller housing (player combined housing to save money on accounts)

<blockquote><hr>


2. 51 FREAKING RUNE BOOKS OF HOUSES!!!!! WOW! Where do you find the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew Plucky and some of his guild. There soul purpose is IDOCing pretty much. So why waste time going door to door every day when you can mark them all once and do it every other day more efficiently

 

[Lord Kotan]

Yeah.. I was thinking that too.. 5-7m is not a lot when you have server maintenance monthly fees (like connections), salaries to pay, and various other expenses..

5-7m doesn't go that far really.

 

[nickdafunk]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

So that would pull in what? around $6,000,000 a year, I doubt they will pull the plug on a product pulling in that kind of revenue.
*Yay... the sky is not falling*

[/ QUOTE ]

http://mmogdata.voig.com/Home.html

Latest subscriber count according to these guys is 110,000 (Oct 7th, 07). Not saying its 100% accurate but if it was that means assuming that everyone was paying for UO 1 month at a time at the $12.99 rate...

110,000 x $12.99 = $1,428,900 x 12months = $17,146,800

Based on that I think you could say that UO makes at least 1mill a month.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly a lot of money.

They have to pay to maintain the servers, pay the salary of the developers, etc. etc.

In the end... it's not making a lot of money for the company

Compare it to WoW, with 10 million subscribers, making at least 129.9 million a month ($12.99/month), and making at most 149.9 million a month ($14.99/month. This is... well... sheesh. They make almost 10 times EA (UO itself) does in a MONTH.

Just a thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the same time though, it has been agreed that UO's servers, having been on the go for over a decade, should be pretty much paid off and running at a minmal cost. Furthermore, the cost of the team we have working on UO, clearly won't put a huge dent in their profits, particularly when EA have quite publicly, trimmed it down to be more cost effective.

Another thing to bear in mind is that EA as a company is struggling at the moment, and even if you don't see a profit of about 700k a month being much to these guys, think again. Every stream of income counts.

"Compare it to WoW"

The profit that WoW makes matters, not a jot my friend. There is no need to compare it to anything else whatsoever. It is a business. It makes money. End of.

Imagine the sole trader who runs an extremely popular newsagents in his local area and through this makes a handsome profit. Does he throw his hands up in despair because he cannot match the profits of massive, National stores with hundreds of branches accross the country?

I think not.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

So that would pull in what? around $6,000,000 a year, I doubt they will pull the plug on a product pulling in that kind of revenue.
*Yay... the sky is not falling*

[/ QUOTE ]

http://mmogdata.voig.com/Home.html

Latest subscriber count according to these guys is 110,000 (Oct 7th, 07). Not saying its 100% accurate but if it was that means assuming that everyone was paying for UO 1 month at a time at the $12.99 rate...

110,000 x $12.99 = $1,428,900 x 12months = $17,146,800

Based on that I think you could say that UO makes at least 1mill a month.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not exactly a lot of money.

They have to pay to maintain the servers, pay the salary of the developers, etc. etc.

In the end... it's not making a lot of money for the company

Compare it to WoW, with 10 million subscribers, making at least 129.9 million a month ($12.99/month), and making at most 149.9 million a month ($14.99/month. This is... well... sheesh. They make almost 10 times EA (UO itself) does in a MONTH.

Just a thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the same time though, it has been agreed that UO's servers, having been on the go for over a decade, should be pretty much paid off and running at a minmal cost. Furthermore, the cost of the team we have working on UO, clearly won't put a huge dent in their profits, particularly when EA have quite publicly, trimmed it down to be more cost effective.

Another thing to bear in mind is that EA as a company is struggling at the moment, and even if you don't see a profit of about 700k a month being much to these guys, think again. Every stream of income counts.

"Compare it to WoW"

The profit that WoW makes matters, not a jot my friend. There is no need to compare it to anything else whatsoever. It is a business. It makes money. End of.

Imagine the sole trader who runs an extremely popular newsagents in his local area and through this makes a handsome profit. Does he throw his hands up in despair because he cannot match the profits of massive, National stores with hundreds of branches accross the country?

I think not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh. I suppose you're right...

However, EA is a big company too - they sure as hell want to emulate what Blizzard does with their games. EA should just stick other game genres, NOT MMORPGS, IMO. They've never done it well, and probably never will. If you're looking at Warhammer, and thinking "WOW! This is awesome!"... well, you should've played WoW, because it's the same crap.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


At the same time though, it has been agreed that UO's servers, having been on the go for over a decade

[/ QUOTE ]

The servers have been refreshed with new hardware and migrated to a different OS at the same time (minor change from one version of obscure UNIX to Sun Solaris)

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


WoW has had over ten million accounts created. They dont have ten million active. Dont get me wrong they have a crap load going and have alot of servers and most of the mare full, but they DONT have ten mil active accounts. As in uo there are alot of free trail accounts that were opened and counted in that number. I have prob six of those ten million my self!

But WoW does make a [censored] load more money than uo! And it keeps growing everyday! Especially with people like MR T promoting and now Toyota is using it to promote its products.

I wish uo would do something like that

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

Read: http://www.blizzard.com/press/080122.shtml

10 million SUBSCRIBERS. That's paying accounts.

Excerpt: <blockquote><hr>

World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>


WoW has had over ten million accounts created. They dont have ten million active. Dont get me wrong they have a crap load going and have alot of servers and most of the mare full, but they DONT have ten mil active accounts. As in uo there are alot of free trail accounts that were opened and counted in that number. I have prob six of those ten million my self!

But WoW does make a [censored] load more money than uo! And it keeps growing everyday! Especially with people like MR T promoting and now Toyota is using it to promote its products.

I wish uo would do something like that

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

Read: http://www.blizzard.com/press/080122.shtml

10 million SUBSCRIBERS. That's paying accounts.

Excerpt: <blockquote><hr>

World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

RTLFC


Who cares who makes what?

Like there is real proof and if you had it.... what does it matter?

Bottom line is they make more then they spend. Geez.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>



RTLFC


Who cares who makes what?

Like there is real proof and if you had it.... what does it matter?

Bottom line is they make more then they spend. Geez.

[/ QUOTE ]

*shrugs*

UO's death is imminent. How the hell do you know EA makes more than they spend on UO?

The subscribership and the amount of money an MMO makes is what gauges it's success. UO is not very successful anymore.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>



RTLFC


Who cares who makes what?

Like there is real proof and if you had it.... what does it matter?

Bottom line is they make more then they spend. Geez.

[/ QUOTE ]

*shrugs*

UO's death is imminent. How the hell do you know EA makes more than they spend on UO?

The subscribership and the amount of money an MMO makes is what gauges it's success. UO is not very successful anymore.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same way I know WOW doesnt bring in 1.2 billion a year.

The numbers of accounts and or no accounts and all that is speculative BS.

Both companies will continue their product because it cost less to produce then what they earn from it.

No company (beyond initial start up and planning) is going to run something 10 years plus that doesnt earn money for the company.

Money via subscriptions. Money via expansions. Money via tokens and all.

UO makes money.

EAs goal is to make money.

Now EA can do it by milking us or by funding developing and improving the game and listening to us.

I take it from their letters, there intent is to improve the game and work to make the playerbase happy.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>



RTLFC


Who cares who makes what?

Like there is real proof and if you had it.... what does it matter?

Bottom line is they make more then they spend. Geez.

[/ QUOTE ]

*shrugs*

UO's death is imminent. How the hell do you know EA makes more than they spend on UO?

The subscribership and the amount of money an MMO makes is what gauges it's success. UO is not very successful anymore.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same way I know WOW doesnt bring in 1.2 billion a year.

The numbers of accounts and or no accounts and all that is speculative BS.

Both companies will continue their product because it cost less to produce then what they earn from it.

No company (beyond initial start up and planning) is going to run something 10 years plus that doesnt earn money for the company.

Money via subscriptions. Money via expansions. Money via tokens and all.

UO makes money.

EAs goal is to make money.

Now EA can do it by milking us or by funding developing and improving the game and listening to us.

I take it from their letters, there intent is to improve the game and work to make the playerbase happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll go with the milking us angle.

Sure, the dev team can tell us everything we want to hear, but that doesn't change the fact that it's impossible to prevent a half-sunk ship from going completely under.

How often do we see their letters of intent, yet never see follow-through? There has to be many instances over the years.

 

[Guest]

Well I cant argue milking or not milking. Either way is income. I hope for the latter. We will see. I think we will now with this next event. Seriously. The proof will be in the puddin.

 

[Guest]

I just posted this as hard facts and stand bye the fact I have no record of lieing about these matters and was point blank honest in my findings.

I also know people complain in uhall and can and will complain about anything and find the negative in everything. But I find it interesting that what there arguing about is all around UOs revenue stream then the argument my post actually disputes and that is that uo is having everyone leave in a mass droves and the servers are going to be shut down any day now.

I also find it amusing there using the most negative and oppositional standpoint possible bye comparing it to the most uber leet and successful game on the market (which is absurd for so many reasons that is pointless to argue with negative people).

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I just posted this as hard facts and stand bye the fact I have no record of lieing about these matters and was point blank honest in my findings.

I also know people complain in uhall and can and will complain about anything and find the negative in everything. But I find it interesting that what there arguing about is all around UOs revenue stream then the argument my post actually disputes and that is that uo is having everyone leave in a mass droves and the servers are going to be shut down any day now.

I also find it amusing there using the most negative and oppositional standpoint possible bye comparing it to the most uber leet and successful game on the market (which is absurd for so many reasons that is pointless to argue with negative people).

[/ QUOTE ]

Your info is interesting.
Im just saying to others generating profit numbers and using your info to predict this or that based on what they feel.... then tossing in the WOW stuff.

Isnt wrong.
Its just not right either.

UO makes money.
When it stops the game will end.

According to many the plug has been getting pulled for atleast 6 years now.

Must be a lot of cord.

 

[Guest]

RTLFC

I think what a lot of people are having trouble wrapping their heads around is this - It doesn't take 10,000,000 subscribers to make an MMO successful.

Look at LoTRO, the game is critically acclaimed and loved by its players, but doesn't boast such high sub. numbers. I'd call it a success because it's not only enjoyable, but Turbine seems happy with where the game is (don't quote me on this)

There's hundreds of Asian-style grinder-MMO's out there with no subscription fees at all, rather they have item shops... they're still attracting players.


You can't compare every game to WoW, because not every game is like WoW... Blizzard had millions of people wanting to play before they even released the game, all because it had 'warcraft' in the title... UO didn't have that luxury. Unfortunately.

Besides, WoW is a wasteland of teenage egos, crappy Chuck Norris jokes, and 'QQ more plz' ... and have you ever seen the forums? egads man the TROLLS... they're everywhere.

 

[Guest]

RTLFC

What you people aren't considering is the sheer number of tokens we consume.

If you use one of those neat little sites powered by illegal programs that make shopping easier that we clearly arent allowed to mention here you'd see the amount of tokens we buy is ********.

 

[Guest]

yea I wouldnt say up is in its death throws but its choking and its face is turning urple and in need of a hemlic. (meaning it isnt always all bad but I am not being niave either).