More skills = less effective!? (parry+)

[CovenantX]

This is indeed the case with Throwing for sure...

your "hit chance increase" isn't lowered from useing a shield
it is pretty much reducing your throwing skill to 0 unless you have parry?
(why would a thrower be standing near something to be hit by melee anyway?)

But if you have parry, it gives you a 10% Dci penalty?
... why?

and why does parry + bushido = lower chance to block with a shield? after all its still an extra 1-120 skill pts worth out of the template.

these need to be changed...

Penalties from parry + other skills should be removed

(reason parry should be a passive skill based on weapon skill for those who hold a shield) and possibly for bushido as well for those who do not want to use a shield)
shields in most cases are useless in pvp.. because they don't allow the use of pots So in turn for pvp more than likely people wont use shields since
the ability to chug pots in pvp outweighs the benefits you get from holding a shield...

so please remove Any and ALL penalties from parry + complimentary skills.

 

[Raptor85]

I can't comment on throwing, as i don't know the mechanics, but with bushido parry works via your weapon instead of your shield, bushido is meant for 2h weapons. (it gives a significant bump to block chance with a 1h or 2h, 2h block chance is 40% at 120 bush 120 parry)

 

[Merion]

The 10% DCI penalty really makes no sense

 

[AzSel]

The 10% DCI penalty really makes no sense

I do agree with this, sure give some kindof penalty for wearing a shield, but DCI? hmm must be some kinda bullseye painted on the shield or something...

 

[Sir_Bolo]

But if you have parry, it gives you a 10% Dci penalty?
... why?

I think you might have understood the DCI penalty backwards.

If you have 120 Parry and a shield, your DCI penalty with Throwing is only 10%.

On the other hand, if you have 0 Parrying and a shield, your DCI penalty with Throwing will be much higher.

In other words - you always have a DCI penalty with Throwing+Shield, but using the Parrying skill reduces the penalty (in addition to giving you the normal chance to block).

So more Parrying skill --> more effective.

At least, this is how I interpret the DCI penalty for Throwing. It's probably intended as a balance with Archery, which doesn't have the extra hand slot for the additional DCI item.

 

[Yalp]

I know.. right? For me, throwing has been fubar'd from day 1. I love the thought of throwing, but the execution is.... !

 

[NoBuddy]

What I'd still like to know is if DCI even applies with throwing? My understanding of DCI is that it is only in effect if you have a melee skill (fencing, swords, mace, wrestle), parry or mage wep for mages. My understanding is that Archery does NOT benefit from DCI. Does throwing work like Archery or like the melee skills? Am I correct in my understanding of DCI?

 

[Viquire]

Throwing now actually works like both, or more like arch in that your weapon is still in your hand if you are defending mele. I don't have a good feel for how range works yet, but that is another story.

It was explained in another thread by one of the devs that the reduction is ten percent at 120 parry of your current equipment DCI. So for example if you are equipped up to 70 to avoid HLD then your actual is 70 less 10 percent which would be approx 63 DCI.

Someone stomp on me if I don't have that right.

 

[NoBuddy]

Not sure that answers my question tho. By the way I understand it, if I don't have a melee skill, parry or a mage wep (with magery), then DCI has no impact.

Hypothetically:

120 rchery
120 anat
120 tacts
120 heal
120 resist
120 ninja

or

120 mage
120 eval
120 med
120 mystic
120 focus
120 spellweave

If my understanding is correct, neither of these temps benefit from DCI, regardless of amount.

Is this accurate? If so, would throwing fall in line with Archery where dci has no impact (not counting or worried about parry, just the throwing skill inately), or is it like say swords and dci is in play?

 

[Kellgory]

I've always understood it as DCI is DCI reguardless of the template, and that people get confused about bushido, parry, and archery. The see the chance to parry with two handed weapons and think it means bows as well. I thought there was a thread in the warrior forurm a while back discussing dci and what order things were checked first.

 

[NoBuddy]

My point had nothing to do with bushido. Inately, you have a chance to defend with a martial skill (wrestle, swords, parry, mage wep, even eval/anat..all compared against opponent's chance to hit), but not with archery. DCI enhances your chance to defend, so therefore DCI is useless with Archery...at least that is my understanding. So again, is throwing like archery in this regard, or more like say swords?

 

[Barry Gibb]

Not sure that answers my question tho. By the way I understand it, if I don't have a melee skill, parry or a mage wep (with magery), then DCI has no impact.

Hypothetically:

120 rchery
120 anat
120 tacts
120 heal
120 resist
120 ninja

or

120 mage
120 eval
120 med
120 mystic
120 focus
120 spellweave

If my understanding is correct, neither of these temps benefit from DCI, regardless of amount.

Is this accurate? If so, would throwing fall in line with Archery where dci has no impact (not counting or worried about parry, just the throwing skill inately), or is it like say swords and dci is in play?

This is incorrect. See here for the discussion in the Spellcaster Forum on DCI: http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-spellcaster/232878-dci.html Of the two templates you gave, the one with Archery defends with a base of 120 skill (from Archery), where as the mage template would defned at a base of 70 skill (from defensive wrestling).

All of the melee skills (Fencing, Swords, Macing, Wrestling, Archery, and Throwing) are the same for hit and defense calculations (save for Throwing's range modifiers for hit). HCI and DCI also work the same regardless of melee skill. The only difference with Archery, is that you cannot parry with a bow. You can parry with any other weapon or weapon + shield combination.

My take on the DCI penalties for a Throwing Weapon and a Shield is a comprimize for having both a ranged melee attack and the ability to parry attacks (in addition to your defensive misses).

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[puni666]

The 10% DCI penalty really makes no sense

Parry with ranged attacks makes no sense. That's why they're balancing it out with an overall -10% with the maximum skill.

All you need is 78% DCI in a suit to have 70 DCI it's really not that hard considering the weapons can have a maximum of 25% DCI on them. 15ring/15brace/25weapon/5robe/5apron/5tally/5sash that's 75% right there w/o a shield.

Oh yeah that's a dexer swinging at cap with 50% HCI and HLD behind a shield BTW...... Why do they get a -10% DCI what kind of question is that?

 

[puni666]

All of the melee skills (Fencing, Swords, Macing, Wrestling, Archery, and Throwing) are the same for hit and defense calculations (save for Throwing's range modifiers for hit). HCI and DCI also work the same regardless of melee skill. The only difference with Archery, is that you cannot parry with a bow. You can parry with any other weapon or weapon + shield combination.

Actually if you're at 45% HCI on your suit you're technically at 50% HCI so the calculation isn't exactly the same. They're always going to hit any player more often then another race since everyone's cap defense is only 45%DCI.

 

[Barry Gibb]

Actually if you're at 45% HCI on your suit you're technically at 50% HCI so the calculation isn't exactly the same. They're always going to hit any player more often then another race since everyone's cap defense is only 45%DCI.

Correct, but the calculations all remain unchanged. A gargoyle's HCI is just bumped by +5%.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[CovenantX]

-Gargoyle-
120 throwing + 120 parry + 50 dci = 45 dci

50 dci - 10% = 45 (with a shield)

120 throwing + 120 in anything else (without a shield) = 50 dci
of course you can't parry BUT. this allows you to chug all powerful pots!

-Human with +20 all skills racial ability-

humans with 120 parry get a penalty to their chance to parry from the racial ability of +20 bushido when they use a shield, was this intended ?

and Dci works without a weapon skill as well it increases your chance to be "missed" by attacks as opposed to parrying, and it works with archery & throwing regardless if you have parry or not.

 

[Barry Gibb]

humans with 120 parry get a penalty to their chance to parry from the racial ability of +20 bushido when they use a shield, was this intended?

The JOAT Bushido does not affect Parry. This concern was raised and addressed a long time ago (back when FoF was around, I think).

Dci works without a weapon skill as well

Yes it still "works" without a weapon skill. However, without a defensive ability to reinforce (e.g. a weapon skill, mage weapon + magery, or defensive wrestling), you will not notice your DCI (even if you have max).

Stayin Alive,

BG