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(Edited slightly 17 April, 2008 after some additional insight)
I know that I, and probably a lot of others, have wondered just what the returns were for recycling metal items.
I'd heard "60%" bandied about for GM & 105 Mining, but I KNEW those were wrong, as I routinely got back much better. There has also been some question what the benefit of the salvage bag is.
After being the recipient of the metal items from about 25 Dark Wisp chests, I decided to knuckle down, and make the tests, since all but 4 items on my list to test could be gotten from the chests, and all (or substitutes) were in sufficient quantity.
Items used in the test / Ingots to make (* designates items I had to craft for the test)
Dagger / 3
Shuriken * / 5
Short Spear & Mace / 6
Katana & Tear Kites/ 8 (ran test for both on all settings)
Assassin Spike * / 9
Buckler & Broadsword / 10
Plate Gloves / 12
Metal Shield / 14
Various helmets / 15
Metal Kite Shields / 16
Plate Arms / 18
Chain Tunics & Lances / 20
Order Shields & Plate Tunics / 25
Platemail Do * / 28
Dragon Barding Deed * / 750 (anyone want to contribute to the poor smith's ingot supply? I lost 461 real ingots running the 105 skill test on Lake Austin, since it would have been a nightmare to try to get Ringmail gloves on Test Center)
Here were the 4 tests done:
Grandmaster Miner, no modifiers
Grandmaster Miner, using Salvage Bag
Grandmaster Miner, wearing Ringmail Gloves of Mining only (for 105 skill)
Grandmaster Miner, wearing the Ringmail Gloves if Mining, using Salvage Bag.
First of all, the Salvage Bag results.
<font color="red"> The smith's bonus for using the salvage bag, is ONE MORE INGOT RETURNED, be it salvaging a dagger (3 ingots to make) or a Dragon Barding Deed (750 ingots to make).</font> It may not be worth it for a quick recycle job, but if you're using the make / recycle means of training a smith, one should seriously consider using the Salvage Bag, instead of the make / smelt UO Assist macros common to such training. This is especially true since the recycling of an entire bag full of items is near instantaneous, compared to conventional smelting, be it via tool (macro or not) or UOAssist Recycle bag. If there's one place where an EA idea has trumped the UOAssist feature that inspired it, this is it.
(trivia - wearing 105 mining gloves, and using the Salvage bag, you can now make daggers, and get back EVERY ingot you put into the daggers being recycled - 0-ingot-loss Runic dagger crafting FTW
)
<font color="green"> This leaves the two tests, of 100 vs. 105 mining... </font>
Test 1: Return for 100 Mining.
Column 1: Ingots to craft
Column 2: Ingots Returned
Column 3: Percentage Returned
3 / 1 / 33.33%
5 / 3 / 60.00%
6 / 3 / 50.00%
8 / 5 / 62.50%
9 / 5 / 55.56%
10 / 6 / 60.00%
12 / 7 / 58.33%
14 / 9 / 64.29%
15 / 9 / 60.00%
16 / 10 / 62.50%
18 / 11 / 61.11%
20 / 13 / 65.00%
25 / 16 / 64.00%
28 / 18 / 64.29%
750 / 495 / 66.00%
Observations:
<ul>
[*]Most returns (percent-wise) are in the 60s.
[*]Those returns not in the 60s, or in the low 60s, are all ones where the next higher result would have been above 66%. Even the next result for the dragon Barding Deed would have been 66.13%.
[/list]
<font color="blue">Conclusion: </font> The most likely percentage return for 100 Mining, when smelting crafted items back into ingots, is 66%. It may be marginally higher, but if so, it is still less than 66.133%. Most likely, the formula for recycling items is Skill times 0.66, for all mining skill.
Now, for the other test...
Test 1: Return for 105 Mining.
Column 1: Ingots to craft
Column 2: Ingots Returned
Column 3: Percentage Returned
3 / 2 / 66.67%
5 / 3 / 60.00%
6 / 4 / 66.67%
8 / 5 / 62.50%
9 / 6 / 66.67%
10 / 6 / 60.00%
12 / 8 / 66.67%
14 / 9 / 64.29%
15 / 10 / 66.67%
16 / 11 / 68.75%
18 / 12 / 66.67%
20 / 13 / 65.00%
25 / 17 / 68.00%
28 / 19 / 67.86%
750 / 519 / 69.20%
Observations:
<ul>
[*]All returns are now in the 60s. With the exception of the Dragon Barding Deed, the next step up for each would have been 70% or higher (data from the Salvage Bag tests - not shown for space).
[*]Some returns did not change. In all of these cases, one extra ingot would have put the return over that of the Dragon Barding Deed's return of 69.2%. The Percentage for 520 ingots (one more than the Dragon Barding Deed's actual return, and shown in the Salvage Bag data) is 69.33%, giving us an upper bound for the percentage for 105 Mining.
[/list]
<font color="blue">Conclusion: </font> The percentage return for 105 Mining (GM + gloves), when smelting crafted items back into ingots, is at least 69.2%. It is most likely 69.3% (105*0.66), which is still less than 69.33%.
So, we now have some facts to replace of 10+ years of conjecture. We can also conjecture that we have been losing an ingot here and there (and those lost ingots add up queckly) because some programmer got lazy, and made the return be "Skill * 0.66" instead of "Skill * 2/3" (which was probably the intent). Just like with using 22/7 to approximate Pi, sometimes approximate isn't close enough.
If you want to test lower numbers, go ahead - testing 100 & 105 was enough for me (oh, my poor ingot supply...)
I would suggest, though, if someone DOES do a test (hint, hint), that the skip all the small stuff and test every 5 points of mining (from 0 to 95) on Test Center, using Dragon Barding Deeds (you can get the ingots you'll need there by saying "Give Resources"). I'm FAQ'ed out for the night.....
I know that I, and probably a lot of others, have wondered just what the returns were for recycling metal items.
I'd heard "60%" bandied about for GM & 105 Mining, but I KNEW those were wrong, as I routinely got back much better. There has also been some question what the benefit of the salvage bag is.
After being the recipient of the metal items from about 25 Dark Wisp chests, I decided to knuckle down, and make the tests, since all but 4 items on my list to test could be gotten from the chests, and all (or substitutes) were in sufficient quantity.
Items used in the test / Ingots to make (* designates items I had to craft for the test)
Dagger / 3
Shuriken * / 5
Short Spear & Mace / 6
Katana & Tear Kites/ 8 (ran test for both on all settings)
Assassin Spike * / 9
Buckler & Broadsword / 10
Plate Gloves / 12
Metal Shield / 14
Various helmets / 15
Metal Kite Shields / 16
Plate Arms / 18
Chain Tunics & Lances / 20
Order Shields & Plate Tunics / 25
Platemail Do * / 28
Dragon Barding Deed * / 750 (anyone want to contribute to the poor smith's ingot supply? I lost 461 real ingots running the 105 skill test on Lake Austin, since it would have been a nightmare to try to get Ringmail gloves on Test Center)
Here were the 4 tests done:
Grandmaster Miner, no modifiers
Grandmaster Miner, using Salvage Bag
Grandmaster Miner, wearing Ringmail Gloves of Mining only (for 105 skill)
Grandmaster Miner, wearing the Ringmail Gloves if Mining, using Salvage Bag.
First of all, the Salvage Bag results.
<font color="red"> The smith's bonus for using the salvage bag, is ONE MORE INGOT RETURNED, be it salvaging a dagger (3 ingots to make) or a Dragon Barding Deed (750 ingots to make).</font> It may not be worth it for a quick recycle job, but if you're using the make / recycle means of training a smith, one should seriously consider using the Salvage Bag, instead of the make / smelt UO Assist macros common to such training. This is especially true since the recycling of an entire bag full of items is near instantaneous, compared to conventional smelting, be it via tool (macro or not) or UOAssist Recycle bag. If there's one place where an EA idea has trumped the UOAssist feature that inspired it, this is it.
(trivia - wearing 105 mining gloves, and using the Salvage bag, you can now make daggers, and get back EVERY ingot you put into the daggers being recycled - 0-ingot-loss Runic dagger crafting FTW
<font color="green"> This leaves the two tests, of 100 vs. 105 mining... </font>
Test 1: Return for 100 Mining.
Column 1: Ingots to craft
Column 2: Ingots Returned
Column 3: Percentage Returned
3 / 1 / 33.33%
5 / 3 / 60.00%
6 / 3 / 50.00%
8 / 5 / 62.50%
9 / 5 / 55.56%
10 / 6 / 60.00%
12 / 7 / 58.33%
14 / 9 / 64.29%
15 / 9 / 60.00%
16 / 10 / 62.50%
18 / 11 / 61.11%
20 / 13 / 65.00%
25 / 16 / 64.00%
28 / 18 / 64.29%
750 / 495 / 66.00%
Observations:
<ul>
[*]Most returns (percent-wise) are in the 60s.
[*]Those returns not in the 60s, or in the low 60s, are all ones where the next higher result would have been above 66%. Even the next result for the dragon Barding Deed would have been 66.13%.
[/list]
<font color="blue">Conclusion: </font> The most likely percentage return for 100 Mining, when smelting crafted items back into ingots, is 66%. It may be marginally higher, but if so, it is still less than 66.133%. Most likely, the formula for recycling items is Skill times 0.66, for all mining skill.
Now, for the other test...
Test 1: Return for 105 Mining.
Column 1: Ingots to craft
Column 2: Ingots Returned
Column 3: Percentage Returned
3 / 2 / 66.67%
5 / 3 / 60.00%
6 / 4 / 66.67%
8 / 5 / 62.50%
9 / 6 / 66.67%
10 / 6 / 60.00%
12 / 8 / 66.67%
14 / 9 / 64.29%
15 / 10 / 66.67%
16 / 11 / 68.75%
18 / 12 / 66.67%
20 / 13 / 65.00%
25 / 17 / 68.00%
28 / 19 / 67.86%
750 / 519 / 69.20%
Observations:
<ul>
[*]All returns are now in the 60s. With the exception of the Dragon Barding Deed, the next step up for each would have been 70% or higher (data from the Salvage Bag tests - not shown for space).
[*]Some returns did not change. In all of these cases, one extra ingot would have put the return over that of the Dragon Barding Deed's return of 69.2%. The Percentage for 520 ingots (one more than the Dragon Barding Deed's actual return, and shown in the Salvage Bag data) is 69.33%, giving us an upper bound for the percentage for 105 Mining.
[/list]
<font color="blue">Conclusion: </font> The percentage return for 105 Mining (GM + gloves), when smelting crafted items back into ingots, is at least 69.2%. It is most likely 69.3% (105*0.66), which is still less than 69.33%.
So, we now have some facts to replace of 10+ years of conjecture. We can also conjecture that we have been losing an ingot here and there (and those lost ingots add up queckly) because some programmer got lazy, and made the return be "Skill * 0.66" instead of "Skill * 2/3" (which was probably the intent). Just like with using 22/7 to approximate Pi, sometimes approximate isn't close enough.
If you want to test lower numbers, go ahead - testing 100 & 105 was enough for me (oh, my poor ingot supply...)
I would suggest, though, if someone DOES do a test (hint, hint), that the skip all the small stuff and test every 5 points of mining (from 0 to 95) on Test Center, using Dragon Barding Deeds (you can get the ingots you'll need there by saying "Give Resources"). I'm FAQ'ed out for the night.....