@Mesana @kyronics : Is it about time? Non PK Pet advancements..

[celticus]

I know that this will bring fire and brimstone, but I suspect it is about time to re-open this painful subject. A real Pandors's Box. Subject to lots of hot debating last year with the pet revamp, lots of negative emotion and heated posts. This is controversial, and not for the weak at wits or heart.
White PS for player characters have been the staple of PVP for decades. Leaving them as they are. Things were stable for many years as they were.
Real question is, the taming revamp created imbalances is the PS that are still lingering today : Why do we need same type of PS for pets as for players? And why subject a non-PVP class of players to the need for PVP dependence, and gigantic expenses, in order to upgrade their pets?
Could there be some solutions that would benefit the game and increase the use of content to obtain these advancements? What are the choices/recommendations to do that? That is regardless of "I have accumulated XX million uo$ worth of PS, and what am I going to do with them now" selfishness.
Some thoughts :
--Create a new item, PS or otherwise (maybe Orange color, who cares?). Make it capable of advancing 105-120 white PS equivalent, but working only on Animals-Pets.
--Make the Pet advancement item drop from bosses at Turtle, not a too easy spawn, OR Sleeping Dragon Serraod the Awakened boss in Tokuno. Make the drops decent, drop 7 Pet PS each time, to the highest damagers. Outside of the PvP/PK system.
--Or compromise a Fel Spawn, like TURTLE, a pretty tough spawn and boss, and make it NON PK or PVP, and drop NOT white player PS but ONLY Pet-specific PS usable by Pets only!
--Decrease the anxiety for players to get the Pet advancements by doing so. Encourage people to do content to directly get these advancements.
--Try to diminish this criminal racketeering terrorizing the tamers that would like to get their pet advancements. Its like "You have to pay your dues to the MOB to keep going, "protection" or else. What game developer encourages this? I suspect this was not foreseen, but this is how things are now, game-wide regarding the pet advancements.

We need people to do content in the game, and STAY in the game, SUBed. We need to increase INTEREST in doing content, and we need new/returning players to STAY, and give the good word out so we can get more SUBS. EJ did a little good, and that is appreciated. But this is still a BURNING subject with a number of players, old and new. What are you waiting for?
Try an experiment for gosh's sake : Put new content with the upcoming High Seas content or something: A drop that will act like pet advancement PS and see what happens.

What do you guys think of this?

 

[Pawain]

How bout taking off the pet to player damage caps instead. They nerfed the killer Rainbow Bird that ruined PvP. So all should be safe for the ones who fear pets.

But that would bring more players to Fel. We can't have that.

 

[Thoronnar]

do you want a free cookie as well?

Get protection. do you think you are the only pvmer playing in Fel?

If you don't like it, you can always chain roof/doom/peerless and trade items for PS.

 

[celticus]

Yes, we are all brainwashed to the status quo, and things are what they are..etc..
Problem is there are posts in here about one person who claims he subed and left-quit the game because of the way things are. We all dumped on him/her also..What I am wondering is how many other people resubed and left, when they discovered these problems. Especially the eternal PK pissing contest of the Fel spawns.
Also try to chain Doom, Roof, and see how easy it is for someone. Don't forget we are not talking about Fel Spawns and White PS for players. We are talking about PET advancements. A pet is a tamer's weapon. Make it difficult but not impossible to upgrade. Taming a pet, skilling it, and training it are massively time consuming anyway. Why take it away from the tamers to further boost their pets with items SPECIFIC for pets? Again, this was done to increase use of Fel content by players. Got news for yu. It misfired it looks like. Not only Fel content is NOT being used, but there are people that say hey, this is enough, we got PK'd trying to get PS for pets of all things enough. Screw you and your F****n game! And quit?
It was a stupid idea : To bind anything to do with a non-PvP class to PVP. Now go fix that, and people's frustration with it.
Concern is about the game, and people becoming disgruntled that just subed/resubed.
Frankly if they allow non-white PS pet advancements, I will be out about 1 Plat in the PS that I currently have, they will lose value in all likelihood. But we are not talking about selfish concerns. The whole idea is to retain new subscribers and attract new ones..

 

[Xris]

Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem getting PS's? Even on Atlantic you can farm barracoon on off hours. I have no idea about siege so I don't have a comment for them. You can also farm them on dead shards or barter/sell for them. PS's shouldn't be too easy to get. All it will take on atl is 1 guild farming and selling mass scrolls to drop prices. I would say I have mid level gear at best and have no problem getting scrolls.

 

[celticus]

Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem getting PS's? Even on Atlantic you can farm barracoon on off hours. I have no idea about siege so I don't have a comment for them. You can also farm them on dead shards or barter/sell for them. PS's shouldn't be too easy to get. All it will take on atl is 1 guild farming and selling mass scrolls to drop prices. I would say I have mid level gear at best and have no problem getting scrolls.

Well, you are right, and I also farm Fel spawns with no significant PK affecting me, somehow. The idea was however if we can divorce white PS from pets altogether, and introduce another item IN ADDITION to the present PS for pets, that item would pertain to just pets, and would allow only pets to advance caps. That may be something they need to re-think. Pets are nothing but a weapon, a gimped at that, nerfed for esp. PVP. Why require white PS that have been meant for players for decades?
How about if we require white PS to advance properties on melee weapons like swords required for some props like to imbue true slayer weapons? How would that go? Do you see what I mean?

 

[Xris]

Well, you are right, and I also farm Fel spawns with no significant PK affecting me, somehow. The idea was however if we can divorce white PS from pets altogether, and introduce another item IN ADDITION to the present PS for pets, that item would pertain to just pets, and would allow only pets to advance caps. That may be something they need to re-think. Pets are nothing but a weapon, a gimped at that, nerfed for esp. PVP. Why require white PS that have been meant for players for decades?
How about if we require white PS to advance properties on melee weapons like swords required for some props like to imbue true slayer weapons? How would that go? Do you see what I mean?

I don't think the PS are the problem then. They need to fix some things with pets. Why introduce a new PS when they could just modify pet damage. I think a lot of people just want a way to get PS with no risk of pvp. I understand that, but think it'd be a big mistake.

 

[celticus]

I don't think the PS are the problem then. They need to fix some things with pets. Why introduce a new PS when they could just modify pet damage. I think a lot of people just want a way to get PS with no risk of pvp. I understand that, but think it'd be a big mistake.

Well, pet damage has been modified several times, mostly to lower pet vs player damage for PVP due to PKers crying about too much damage from pets. So that got nerfed, and after HOT debates. So that will not change. So we are back to trying to overcap your pet with some type of device, and the only thing we are left with is the stupid white player PS from the beginning of the taming revamp. The idea is IF another device is added to the system, by which the SAME overcapping would occur, it may help the situation overall. The white PS for players would go back down to a humane level so players can upgrade their toons, and tamers can use the white PS if they have them and want to, OR the new PET-SPECIFIC tool of ?Orange pet PS they got from ?Dragon Turtle or other spawn/boss etc. Such a new item would stabilize the white PS system, leave it as it HAS been for decades in Fel, AND allow non-PVP players get overcap upgrades to their pets. What is wrong with these ideas?
My point also is : There are MANY people, that would absolutely NOT go to fel to do spawns to get white PS for any reason. You are brave, don't mind getting PK'd, you got PK friends of guildies etc. etc. But there ARE these people, lots of them that do not like that content, at all. Also they would like to get their pets advanced with overcaps etc. Who are we to tell them you cannot get these advancements unless you pay XX gold to get them from others, or not get them at all? Remember we are talking about PETS. You DO NOT WANT to have many unsatisfied customers, or you lose them eventually. Period. Its not about you and me, its about the game and evantually improving the game survivability going forward. You want to make as many people as happy as possible, and you want to apply logic, for all not just for a few people.

 

[Xris]

Well, pet damage has been modified several times, mostly to lower pet vs player damage for PVP due to PKers crying about too much damage from pets. So that got nerfed, and after HOT debates. So that will not change. So we are back to trying to overcap your pet with some type of device, and the only thing we are left with is the stupid white player PS from the beginning of the taming revamp. The idea is IF another device is added to the system, by which the SAME overcapping would occur, it may help the situation overall. The white PS for players would go back down to a humane level so players can upgrade their toons, and tamers can use the white PS if they have them and want to, OR the new PET-SPECIFIC tool of ?Orange pet PS they got from ?Dragon Turtle or other spawn/boss etc. Such a new item would stabilize the white PS system, leave it as it HAS been for decades in Fel, AND allow non-PVP players get overcap upgrades to their pets. What is wrong with these ideas?
My point also is : There are MANY people, that would absolutely NOT go to fel to do spawns to get white PS for any reason. You are brave, don't mind getting PK'd, you got PK friends of guildies etc. etc. But there ARE these people, lots of them that do not like that content, at all. Also they would like to get their pets advanced with overcaps etc. Who are we to tell them you cannot get these advancements unless you pay XX gold to get them from others, or not get them at all? Remember we are talking about PETS. You DO NOT WANT to have many unsatisfied customers, or you lose them eventually. Period. Its not about you and me, its about the game and evantually improving the game survivability going forward. You want to make as many people as happy as possible, and you want to apply logic, for all not just for a few people.

Wouldn't it still be easier to fix pet damage? They can modify it again instead of introducing a new item that takes you out of fel. UO has had PKs from day 1, you can almost completely avoid them now by killing something else for drops and bartering for what you need. Fixing pet damage seems more appropriate than introducing a new item that would reduce fel spawns and PvP. PS are the only reason people have to go to fel. Fixing pet damage and AI would avoid this situation, while still improving pets.

 

[celticus]

Wouldn't it still be easier to fix pet damage? They can modify it again instead of introducing a new item that takes you out of fel. UO has had PKs from day 1, you can almost completely avoid them now by killing something else for drops and bartering for what you need. Fixing pet damage seems more appropriate than introducing a new item that would reduce fel spawns and PvP. PS are the only reason people have to go to fel. Fixing pet damage and AI would avoid this situation, while still improving pets.

They would NOT touch pet damage, I assure you. So arguing with the Deva about that will yield zero benefit for all.
Arguing about the second point as described, i.e. LEave White PA as they are with Fel spawns, but ADD a pet specific item to bring Wres to 105-110-120 etc to a non PK'able spawn or two, may be doable. So petgs can advance TWO ways, with the white PS you or I have amassed, OR with the new Pet-Specific PS that ALL players, including new comers or re-subs can get from non PK spawns..

 

[Eärendil]

I will not argue about PVP/PKs, just about abandoned places and bad loot. I think, we should leave the champs the way they are. As stated by OP. This is the place to get 6+ scrolls at once. Fine.

But we could add a chance for - lets say - 1 special pet skill scroll when killing peerless like Travesty, Chief, Slasher, Stygian Dragon etc. Or maybe ML minor bosses or paragons: Paragon balron or something like the minor bosses in twisted weald like Swoop. Or the mini champs in the Abyss. You can make it a rare drop, whatever. But it would make it more reasonable to play older content.

 

[railshot]

Real question is, the taming revamp created imbalances is the PS that are still lingering today : Why do we need same type of PS for pets as for players? And why subject a non-PVP class of players to the need for PVP dependence, and gigantic expenses, in order to upgrade their pets?

Because PvP dies rather quickly when there are no PvMers to farm.

We need people to do content in the game, and STAY in the game, SUBed. We need to increase INTEREST in doing content, and we need new/returning players to STAY, and give the good word out so we can get more SUBS.

To me it seems that even when they get something right, they can't help but sabotage it. They made a pet revamp which could have provided tamers years of things to do with minimal additional work from the the devs. But they killed it by 1) Forcing tamers to be exposed to PvP to get scrolls, 2) nerfing tamers' ability to defend themselves in PvP, and 3) not increasing stable slot limits to the degree that the new content warranted. Cherry on top - make sure tamers are a suboptimal template for the top content (roof, Doom, etc.).
I won't tame anymore because I don't have any more PSs and the stables are full anyway. And after the roof nerf there is not much for me to do with the existing pets that would justify the grind anyway. I hope for Broadsword's sake that their design strategy got them some PvPer subs. Because they sure have lost mine.

 

[petemage]

All it will take on atl is 1 guild farming and selling mass scrolls to drop prices.

Which would be a good thing for new and returning players, so I would count that on the positive side

 

[MalagAste]

Because PvP dies rather quickly when there are no PvMers to farm.

To me it seems that even when they get something right, they can't help but sabotage it. They made a pet revamp which could have provided tamers years of things to do with minimal additional work from the the devs. But they killed it by 1) Forcing tamers to be exposed to PvP to get scrolls, 2) nerfing tamers' ability to defend themselves in PvP, and 3) not increasing stable slot limits to the degree that the new content warranted. Cherry on top - make sure tamers are a suboptimal template for the top content (roof, Doom, etc.).
I won't tame anymore because I don't have any more PSs and the stables are full anyway. And after the roof nerf there is not much for me to do with the existing pets that would justify the grind anyway. I hope for Broadsword's sake that their design strategy got them some PvPer subs. Because they sure have lost mine.

Exactly... First I was extremely excited... FINALLY the pet revamp was here... and I finally got to tame me a Dread Spider as a pet... but sadly it doesn't have the points to make it very worthwhile to use... most spells they can't use that are the functional ones... they can do summons, they can't animate the dead, they can't cast a revenant... etc... making them 1/2 a pet... crippled in a way... like many other pets nerfed to non-usefulness... there are very few that are decent enough to actually be worthwhile but without access to scrolls ..... I too have quit taming. No point. And I have plenty of stable slots on many tamers but most of my tamers are without pets that have been worked up...

Sadly the Frost Dragon that you tame from T-Maps is better than most the pets you can work up with the revamp...

The new drakes while pretty are rather wimpy... Just depressing and disappointing in the end.


Oh and on a final note... since the whole revamp I've "lost" 4 pets... that just were happy as heck one second and went wild the next.... makes me not want to even use my tamers.

 

[Xris]

What server are you guys playing on that you can't get a champ spawn done? I did one during peak time on Atlantic a few days ago (around 6pm est). No one showed up. How often are you guys getting raided on your servers?

 

[Stinky Pete]

What server are you guys playing on that you can't get a champ spawn done? I did one during peak time on Atlantic a few days ago (around 6pm est). No one showed up. How often are you guys getting raided on your servers?

They aren't. They just know it's a possibility so they are afraid. Heaven forbid they get killed and have to take 2 minutes to get a rez and go to a different spawn. But any spawn that can't be reached with recall is also too much trouble for them. They just want to be able to go to a spawn, hide, and let their pet do all the work. It's the tamer mentality.

They also seem to believe that their pets should be the best PvP weapon. Wouldn't it be fun to use pets in PvP? We could PvP while afk! Awesome! Tamers think that saying "all kill" and casting invisibility is the ultimate challenge and should be a viable method to defeat anything in the game including other players.

 

[Xris]

They aren't. They just know it's a possibility so they are afraid. Heaven forbid they get killed and have to take 2 minutes to get a rez and go to a different spawn. But any spawn that can't be reached with recall is also too much trouble for them. They just want to be able to go to a spawn, hide, and let their pet do all the work. It's the tamer mentality.

They also seem to believe that their pets should be the best PvP weapon. Wouldn't it be fun to use pets in PvP? We could PvP while afk! Awesome! Tamers think that saying "all kill" and casting invisibility is the ultimate challenge and should be a viable method to defeat anything in the game including other players.

Ya I die all the time lol its not that bad. PS have been in fel since they came out. Now that pets are revamped it sounds like people just want a no risk way to get PS's. Love it or hate it, PvP has been a staple of UO for 20 years. You can insure almost everything you have except for scrolls. If you're too scared to do a fel spawn then do safe content and sell/trade for what you need. I don't get why people are so scared to go to fel. Yes, sometimes you get PKed, it's not the end of the world. You could always try a free shard that is 100% care bear ruleset. I think PS are fine as they are now.

 

[Gb8719]

How about an item in the UO store that splits one power scroll into two pet specific scrolls? Flat price for a number of charges like a reforming tool.

This will help with 1) not negatively impacting the existing PS economy/farmers, 2) give additional revenue for in game purchases and 3) give us tamers some slight financial relief when scrolling multiple pets. It might also encourage people, like myself, to start training additional pets if I have extra power scrolls.

 

[Stinky Pete]

How about an item in the UO store that splits one power scroll into two pet specific scrolls? Flat price for a number of charges like a reforming tool.

This will help with 1) not negatively impacting the existing PS economy/farmers, 2) give additional revenue for in game purchases and 3) give us tamers some slight financial relief when scrolling multiple pets. It might also encourage people, like myself, to start training additional pets if I have extra power scrolls.

So you want to buy an item to essentially dupe scrolls? So would you be able to turn a 105 macing into 2 120 wrestlings that only work on pets? Why not just sell pet scrolls in the store? But then... why not just buy gold from gold sellers and buy the scrolls? Why not buy soulstones from the store and sell them and buy scrolls for gold?

It just blows my mind that you want to spend real life cash on scrolls when there are spawns in T2A just waiting to be done. But that's how lazy tamers think, if it can't be done by a tamer, it's broken. If you have to walk there, it's not worth going. They go to despise once or twice, get raided, and then come straight to stratics to whine about it. If you invested half of the creativity used to think of stupid new cash store items into getting scrolls, you would already have all the scrolls you need.

 

[celticus]

Lots of points being missed here. One is the intended or unintended by the "Devas" very poorly thought out white PS for pets, i.e. same PS we use for player toon upgrades, and bringing a non-PVP class of LOTS of players in the game and force them to PVP, with a promise of "pet revamp" and then, surprise..No more PS, and they cost now a ton if you can find them that is. In low pop shards, of course that is much worse.
Long story short : Say what you want but these people do not want to PVP, and do NOT want to spend gold they do not have to get them, also they do not / cannot spend 80 hours/week to develop toons to go to "Roof" to get 1% chance to get the one 40 M item, and then buy 1-2 PS with it. Are you F****ng serious?
The idea is not YOU or ME etc. And what you do, and its ok to get PKed etc.
The idea is : We are talking about PET advancements, not toons. Also the idea is to ENCOURAGE all people including tamers and non-PVP folks that are the majority of the players to do content and STAY in the game.

F****ng TRY it for one or two months, call it an event or something, and see the impact on game attendance. Just try it for a short time : Non-PVP dependence white PS First. If you see a dramatic change, then time to rethink the pet-specific PS. Make Turtle in Eodon and Serrado the awakened spawns do t his for 1-2 months, and drop the white PS there, during testing time, see what happens.
You can THEN stop all white PS from being usable on pets, and PUT an NPC in the game that will change the white PS to PET PS. And make pet specific PS drop from Eodon Turtle and Sleeping dragon spawns, no PVP needed, a couple of not so easy spawns. Problem solved!
This two-tiered approach will help the Devas first TEST the theory of lots of more people doing content that otherwise would not, see the results, and subsequently implement the non PK, Pet specific PS or drops from these spawns.
These are just ideas they should think about, and if we do not most of us agree, not much will happen. And even if we do agree or the majority agree, nothing may happen anyway.
Again : We are not looking at this from the perspectives of a few players that enjoy PVP and enjoying the thrill of being PKed or PKing, but from the larger perspective of game survivability.
Want new content? Revamp and improve this aspect albeit for short, testing time and see what happens. Not much coding needed, and should NOT effect the PK / PVP teams and white PS for players. It will improve the numbers of people playing content. Keep the white PS for players as they are, and install a Pet-specific PS or drop system for few of the spawns and see what happens.
The majority of the players are NOT PVP / PK by any stretch of the imagination. Also sadly the population is not expanding by leaps and bounds. We need more subs and more stayers, and re-subers to stay and support the game. STOP deceiving people into coming into a game that does not deliver what they were baited for with the "pet revamp". Look at the game as a whole not from few people's vision.

 

[MalagAste]

It's not about wanting to spend that much gold on PS... first it's that you'd have to go to Atl to get them...... (Though I CAN go anytime I want I prefer never to set foot on that shard.... HATE IT).... Second it's about HAVING that kind of gold... just to do ONE pet it's FAR more expensive than I or most sane people want to spend or CAN spend.

Finally Yes I have tried doing spawns on my shard... and it takes me FAR too long to complete a spawn and even if I managed to finish 1 spawn .... soon after someone WILL be by to PK very soon and then like hungry vultures you will find them every single time you try to do another for the next 2 or 3 months because OMG someone did a champ.... and they might have the ability to PK something .... anything... they don't care... So they are on a high alert status like a pack of rabid dogs... It's annoying.

And 99% of the time the PS you do get are CRAP and completely useless for pet training any way you'd have to do them continually which you can't.... to get anything worthwhile... again... IMO the entire thing is flawed as a dandelion in a perfectly manicured lawn...

PvP should be about PvP... and there could/should be far better things to PvP over.... and it shouldn't control scrolls for people that have no care for it... all the current system does is make folk more and more disgusted about PvP and FEL... and less and less inclined to even try it or go there... especially newer players who can't even compete at all...

And any REAL tamer doesn't just sit back and "all kill" .... there is a heck of a lot more to controlling and using a good pet than "all kill"...

 

[Stinky Pete]

And any REAL tamer doesn't just sit back and "all kill" .... there is a heck of a lot more to controlling and using a good pet than "all kill"...

Yeah... Like casting invisibility.

 

[Stinky Pete]

STOP deceiving people into coming into a game that does not deliver what they were baited for with the "pet revamp".

The only people being deceived are the ones that read these posts and hear that it is impossible for them to get scrolls for their beloved pets. At this point there is nothing that is going to convince players to come and stay. People are going to continue coming and going (like they always have) until the lights go out.

 

[celticus]

It all rests squarely on the Devas shoulders..If they want people to do more content, more playing players, they need to increase player FUN not for just some, but for all players, including non-PVP players..
Add more accessibility to obtaining non-PVP dependent pet advancements or pet specific scrolls, 105-110-115- and 120, for pets, not usable on players.
This has a chance of lots more people, including new players doing non-PVP spawns that are really hard, but doable with team effort (Turtle, Sleeping dragon, etc.).
I suspect most PVP players would have no objection to this, assuming they care for this game, and are not motivated by personal greed alone. We are NOT taking the white PS out of Fel, their staple of and "main reason" to do Fel etc, since they will remain, and still be usable for players toons.
And tamers will be able to get their pet advancements without going to RMT sites, losing all their gold and being broke, quitting their job to spend countless hours to get toons ready to do "roof" and gather gold 24/7 to buy their PS. The fun will be back..
I would like to see the day when I wait in line to do such a spawn. As it is now, ALL the spawns are mostly abandoned, dead. In Tram as well as Fel. In Tram chances that you will get something of value still zip. Also you do Fel spawns and you get mostly junk or non-pet pertinent PS anyways as things are now. So very few people do them. Mostly after hours. So they stay vacant most of the time.
Is this what we want for the game?

It is about time that this is considered : Pet specific scrolls, not usable by players. One more step, this time in the right direction, that will correct the original mistake of using player PS on pets.
Again: SEPARATE PET ADVANCEMENTS FROM PVP/PK.
As said also allow an NPC to change a white PS to a pet specific PS of the same value. So those of us with hundreds of the white PS in possession be able to use them on pets, sell them etc.

I would like to know why this proposal maybe unreasonable.
Help people stay in the game and do content, and increase chance of getting some decent drops, including non-PK dependent PS specific for pets!

Lets hear some objective arguments about this, not clouded by subjective experiences, selfishness, bravado, and non-factual statements, half-truths and demands for players to make billions in UO gold to get PS advancemets, or forcing non-PVP/PK people to go to Fel to get their pet advancements.

It would not take extreme coding to do this, and they could ADD this with their "High Seas" bump coming up somehow.

I also think we may be losing resubbed and returning players on account of this more than just the one that posted here. Also you want the EJ's to sub: This may be one more enticement. MAke pet specific PS usable ONLY by subed accounts!

Please participate and post your arguments one way or the other. We need everyone's opinions, esp if they are well-founded and logical, and not greed motivated.

 

[Suri]

I don't think the PS are the problem then. They need to fix some things with pets. Why introduce a new PS when they could just modify pet damage. I think a lot of people just want a way to get PS with no risk of pvp. I understand that, but think it'd be a big mistake.

I agree, why they can go farm gold and buy it. No risk no reward. If you want the safe route go farm gold and buy like everyone else does.

 

[celticus]

I agree, why they can go farm gold and buy it. No risk no reward. If you want the safe route go farm gold and buy like everyone else does.

Agree that we can buy the white PS, at gargantuan prices, go to RMT sites, and what people are forced to do now. This is exactly the problem though. How are you going to farm 120-200 M for one or two pets?
But are you grasping the bigger picture for the game?
Also:
Can you find something wrong with the above proposals/ideas? If so please state them here.

 

[Suri]

Well, you are right, and I also farm Fel spawns with no significant PK affecting me, somehow. The idea was however if we can divorce white PS from pets altogether, and introduce another item IN ADDITION to the present PS for pets, that item would pertain to just pets, and would allow only pets to advance caps. That may be something they need to re-think. Pets are nothing but a weapon, a gimped at that, nerfed for esp. PVP. Why require white PS that have been meant for players for decades?
How about if we require white PS to advance properties on melee weapons like swords required for some props like to imbue true slayer weapons? How would that go? Do you see what I mean?

How about your pets have limited durability/life span? So for example your pet is a 5 slot. It has 25/25 deaths. It died 25 times it's 0/25 one more and it's gone for good? How does that sound for a even trade? The idea of hindering gear from advancing would only hurt the already nerfed crafting system. Think of something less selfish for your personal gain.

We don't need divided scrolls. A tamer may want to use his pet to hope to get a 120 taming scroll to advance himself and in turn only gets it for his pet so he can no longer hope to improve his power scroll acquisition on his own and would have to use a non-tamer.

The system is fine as is. It gave a new purpose to older items already in play and keep a longer demand and need for scrolls. I came back to the game after 3+ years to discover it's harder to get a 120 wrestling now that pets can use them? Do I dislike that? Yes, because I want a scroll and it raised the price and lowered availability. Does it promote more gameplay to achieve my goal? Yes, for that I'm thankful and I get more player interaction too. Look on the bright side of the current situation.

 

[Xris]

Agree that we can buy the white PS, at gargantuan prices, and what people are forced to do now. This is exactly the problem though.
But are you grasping the bigger picture for the game? Also:
Can you find something wrong with the above proposals/ideas? If so please state them here.

PS aren't broken so don't "fix" them. Spawns (especially piper) are fairly easy to do, and if you go to t2a your much less likely to get raided. You don't have to learn to PvP, you just have to learn how to escape situations. I returned recently and play a tamer as my main, and I don't mind the high prices. Scrolls are not supposed to be easy to get (but realistically you can farm them easily and efficiently on dead shards and have enough for multiple pets). My vote is to leave PS alone.

 

[chester rockwell]

Leave it alone. Go outside your box and try something different.....or grind away.

 

[Stinky Pete]

You ask for an easier way to get stuff, then accuse those that don't agree of being greedy.

I can help you be less greedy, it's my passion. Greed consumes you and you are blind to it. Abandon thy possessions and set thyself free!

 

[Ender]

There's really no good reason for scrolls to be Fel only in 2019.

No, giving PvPers access to easy kills is not a good reason.

 

[Xris]

There's really no good reason for scrolls to be Fel only in 2019.

No, giving PvPers access to easy kills is not a good reason.

It's been this way for 16 years, just because pets need scrolls now doesn't mean they should mess with PS's. Adapt.

 

[Ender]

It's been this way for 16 years, just because pets need scrolls now doesn't mean they should mess with PS's. Adapt.

"It's been this way for years" is not a valid defense of anything

 

[Stinky Pete]

Neither is:

There's really no good reason for scrolls to be Fel only in 2019.

Actually:

giving PvPers access to easy kills

Is the most valid reason to do anything that you have presented. I like it.

 

[Obsidian]

Power scrolls in Fel champs has been part of the game for over 15 years. There is an element of risk to it, but it is possible for those who are not PvP-optimized to earn scrolls. Most spawns are not raided and those that are usually are during prime time. With item insurance, all you loose is 5K-10K gold and the time you spent on the Spawn. I hate losing my effort too, but I move on and come back to spawning the next day or two later. It is a cat and mouse game. Bring blue friends and it goes even faster.

I like that scrolls now have a purpose for pets. I think this breathed new life into scroll demand. The secondary benefit is more activity in champ spawns than before. Sounds good to me!

Bottom line: Leave power scrolls in Fel champs alone.

 

[MalagAste]

PS aren't broken so don't "fix" them. Spawns (especially piper) are fairly easy to do, and if you go to t2a your much less likely to get raided. You don't have to learn to PvP, you just have to learn how to escape situations. I returned recently and play a tamer as my main, and I don't mind the high prices. Scrolls are not supposed to be easy to get (but realistically you can farm them easily and efficiently on dead shards and have enough for multiple pets). My vote is to leave PS alone.

I call BS... I've been raided in t2a plenty of times... been raided anywhere... and everywhere... seen script bots posted in many area's...

Just because you can do it on some remote shard doesn't mean I can on mine.

 

[Suri]

It's not about wanting to spend that much gold on PS... first it's that you'd have to go to Atl to get them...... (Though I CAN go anytime I want I prefer never to set foot on that shard.... HATE IT).... Second it's about HAVING that kind of gold... just to do ONE pet it's FAR more expensive than I or most sane people want to spend or CAN spend.

Finally Yes I have tried doing spawns on my shard... and it takes me FAR too long to complete a spawn and even if I managed to finish 1 spawn .... soon after someone WILL be by to PK very soon and then like hungry vultures you will find them every single time you try to do another for the next 2 or 3 months because OMG someone did a champ.... and they might have the ability to PK something .... anything... they don't care... So they are on a high alert status like a pack of rabid dogs... It's annoying.

And 99% of the time the PS you do get are CRAP and completely useless for pet training any way you'd have to do them continually which you can't.... to get anything worthwhile... again... IMO the entire thing is flawed as a dandelion in a perfectly manicured lawn...

PvP should be about PvP... and there could/should be far better things to PvP over.... and it shouldn't control scrolls for people that have no care for it... all the current system does is make folk more and more disgusted about PvP and FEL... and less and less inclined to even try it or go there... especially newer players who can't even compete at all...

And any REAL tamer doesn't just sit back and "all kill" .... there is a heck of a lot more to controlling and using a good pet than "all kill"...

UO was founded on a single facet where

"It's been this way for years" is not a valid defense of anything

Neither was taking away nearly all the non-consenual pvp, but that happened too. The game still needs risk, it needs danger. You want it removed and therefore you would have no reason for a pet to protect you. Get out of your comfort zone and experience what UO is. I play both production and Siege Perilous. I've seen treasure hunters production go to dungeons and do maps in the overworld for the risk and reward, the excitement. You make the game sound like it's work to get what you want or it's considered taking the hard road and you want the easy stroll through life.

There are items far more valuable that drop outside of Felucca for those that play production shards and can be safely farmed. They can easily be exchanged for scrolls. Insane tinker legs, archmage cuffs, gloves of feudal grip, masks of travesty etc.

The game wasn't made for one character to do it all. Learn to use your playstyle to achieve your end goal instead of wanting an easy way to get it done, or make another character.

 

[Suri]

I wanted to add that the polling options sound very biased as well that won't get you too far.

 

[celticus]

How about your pets have limited durability/life span? So for example your pet is a 5 slot. It has 25/25 deaths. It died 25 times it's 0/25 one more and it's gone for good? How does that sound for a even trade? The idea of hindering gear from advancing would only hurt the already nerfed crafting system. Think of something less selfish for your personal gain.

We don't need divided scrolls. A tamer may want to use his pet to hope to get a 120 taming scroll to advance himself and in turn only gets it for his pet so he can no longer hope to improve his power scroll acquisition on his own and would have to use a non-tamer.

The system is fine as is. It gave a new purpose to older items already in play and keep a longer demand and need for scrolls. I came back to the game after 3+ years to discover it's harder to get a 120 wrestling now that pets can use them? Do I dislike that? Yes, because I want a scroll and it raised the price and lowered availability. Does it promote more gameplay to achieve my goal? Yes, for that I'm thankful and I get more player interaction too. Look on the bright side of the current situation.

I have more than 1 plat worth of scrolls that I do not apply to pets at this point, though they have been farmed and some purchased from player vendors. All types. Wrestling and macing included. I do Fel spawns several times a week, and only once I got PK'd, and did not mind it. And next time my pker saw me at the spawn, he helped me get the spawn and the PS. This post is not about me and you. Its about the game and where it may be heading.
You mentioned even trade : None of your armor items have durability of 25. Having pets a durability would not be such a horrible idea also. But not 25. Need to be a little fair.
You mention the current situation: That is the right word to use. It is a situation alright. A mess. The white PS for pets has created an imbalance that is visible to most people. People are leaving the game and we must close our eyes to that, and the fact that there are huge imbalances, one being the pet PS.
Another option may be to actually remove all white PS and Pet specific PS and allow pets to train and skill to caps?
But as it looks, and other wise people have said here in Stratics, it most likely is TOO LATE now and the cat is out of the bag. Player PS for pets should not have been implemented to begin with, and the mistake should have been foreseen before it happened.
Or we can sit here and debate and most importantly try to convince newcomers of how wonderful is to go to Fel for Pet advancements and need to PK and get PKed, ad nauseum. Thing is we are not looking at the larger perspective, and we are looking at "me" and "you" "I do this" "I did this", and fail to see if and what damage has been done to the gameplay of lots of people, that are unhappy, and likely they will quit. Also, most people do not come to Stratics to express their opinions.
You can put all the bravado you like here about how you go to Fel and "adapt" you toon to fight Pkers (good luck with that as a tamer), and how you learned to quickly run away from PK's, and we all must learn how to quickly run away. The fact remains, that WE ARE LOSING SUBS because of this "situation" due to people being unhappy. Yes some of us like the idea of danger, and risk etc. Go tell that to the player here in these posts that closed his accounts and quit. Do you think he is the only one? The few vocal people here LOVE the situation, like it its a thrill, and thankful even for this situation. But MOST people do NOT like the "situation", and are on the way out. Do you want this?

 

[celticus]

I wanted to add that the polling options sound very biased as well that won't get you too far.

Im not trying to get too far or anywhere near there. The polling choices are not biased. They provide viable options for pet advancements, including leaving things as they are, for which you likely voted.

 

[celticus]

It's been this way for 16 years, just because pets need scrolls now doesn't mean they should mess with PS's. Adapt.

I appreciate your post Xris, but you are missing key points and concepts.

 

[celticus]

There's really no good reason for scrolls to be Fel only in 2019.

No, giving PvPers access to easy kills is not a good reason.

Well come to think of it, there is a very good reason for PS with huge demand for them, being in Fel. How else would the RMT sites get them? Who and their cronies do you think must defend the status quo tooth and claw?
If the pets don't need these Fel spawns anymore, who stands to lose real money? Well that may have been the very reason why things are what they are, and this was pre-planned, and nicely calculated, and NOT poor foresight by the Devas, but intended? So it all works well : So the boogeyman, the scarecrow stops the regular "masses" from doing Fel spawns, and they turn to what? Either grind 24/7, Or better option pay to play at RMT sites. I would also bet you that people from those sites are vehemently protecting the status quo.

 

[MalagAste]

UO was founded on a single facet where

Neither was taking away nearly all the non-consenual pvp, but that happened too. The game still needs risk, it needs danger. You want it removed and therefore you would have no reason for a pet to protect you. Get out of your comfort zone and experience what UO is. I play both production and Siege Perilous. I've seen treasure hunters production go to dungeons and do maps in the overworld for the risk and reward, the excitement. You make the game sound like it's work to get what you want or it's considered taking the hard road and you want the easy stroll through life.

There are items far more valuable that drop outside of Felucca for those that play production shards and can be safely farmed. They can easily be exchanged for scrolls. Insane tinker legs, archmage cuffs, gloves of feudal grip, masks of travesty etc.

The game wasn't made for one character to do it all. Learn to use your playstyle to achieve your end goal instead of wanting an easy way to get it done, or make another character.

None of that excites me nor do I consider it fun to work really hard at building up the Spawn to have some a$$hat come along just before the boss and kill me and finish it off and have there be nothing I can do about it... or worse yet jump me just as I'm leaving and take all my hard earned work... I don't find that "fun" "exciting" or in any way shape or form enjoyable.

The only experience I get from that is a severe feeling of annoyance and the lack of desire to play the game. And I am NOT alone.

That may be what UO was... but it was proven again and again that that exact behavior is exactly why UO was bleeding subscriptions in droves... and while there was a steady stream of influx it was bleeding out faster than coming in.... Hence the BIRTH of Trammel... When will people get it through their heads that most players do NOT want PvP..... It's not a "risk" if you can't compete... It's a 1 sided slaughter of which most folk have zero desire to participate in ...

If PvP and all that were such a wondrous thing and all the "rage" and everyone wanted that sort of thing then Siege would be the Atl... and Atl would be empty.... but since we all know that PvP is NOT what the majority of players want we can see that Siege is nearly one of the lowest population servers there is... .... gee wonder why that is????

 

[Stinky Pete]

Siege is nearly one of the lowest population servers there is

I just want to say that I doubt this very much. You don't see players on Siege because they are out hunting or doing stuff. Most people don't sit around AFK at the bank on Siege because if someone like me finds you doing that you're going to return to an empty pack. Also, Siege is not really the dedicated PvP shard as people like to pretend. There are a handful of people there that will kill you if the see you, but the large majority are just there to run the PvM content and craft (because crafting is still a viable profession there). They play on Siege because they feel accomplished when they do something, the feeling is just not the same on production shards. The feeling of accomplishment is what is meant to be fun, not the acquisition of stuff. The PKs are what provide that feeling, so next time you see one, tell him "thanks."

Also, I love the fact that these threads always lead to people saying that the majority of players don't want to PvP which I believe is entirely false. I believe that most people that enjoy PvP have left to go to free shards because the devs are as short sighted as those that make these claims. If you look at free shards, there are more non-consensual PvP shards than anything else. The most popular free shards are PvP enabled. The only reason that the vast majority of players only do PvM content here is because the devs here don't make content for PvPers.

That being said, if the devs wanted more subscribers, they would increase the amount of PvP content and not worry about Whiney McWhinington over on that other thread who claims to have quit (which was proven false). Nobody is quitting because they can't get scrolls, because that is a blatant lie, they only say that to try to get kind-hearted fools like @celticus to jump up and advocate for them with silly ideas like the one proposed here. If people are really quitting over this, I say good riddance as the last thing the game needs is more entitled crybabies taking to the internet and spreading lies about how things are for their own personal gain. If you want to do what is best for the game, encourage people to take a risk to get the things that they think they need and stop spoon-feeding them.

 

[Xris]

I just want to say that I doubt this very much. You don't see players on Siege because they are out hunting or doing stuff. Most people don't sit around AFK at the bank on Siege because if someone like me finds you doing that you're going to return to an empty pack. Also, Siege is not really the dedicated PvP shard as people like to pretend. There are a handful of people there that will kill you if the see you, but the large majority are just there to run the PvM content and craft (because crafting is still a viable profession there). They play on Siege because they feel accomplished when they do something, the feeling is just not the same on production shards. The feeling of accomplishment is what is meant to be fun, not the acquisition of stuff. The PKs are what provide that feeling, so next time you see one, tell him "thanks."

Also, I love the fact that these threads always lead to people saying that the majority of players don't want to PvP which I believe is entirely false. I believe that most people that enjoy PvP have left to go to free shards because the devs are as short sighted as those that make these claims. If you look at free shards, there are more non-consensual PvP shards than anything else. The most popular free shards are PvP enabled. The only reason that the vast majority of players only do PvM content here is because the devs here don't make content for PvPers.

That being said, if the devs wanted more subscribers, they would increase the amount of PvP content and not worry about Whiney McWhinington over on that other thread who claims to have quit (which was proven false). Nobody is quitting because they can't get scrolls, because that is a blatant lie, they only say that to try to get kind-hearted fools like @celticus to jump up and advocate for them with silly ideas like the one proposed here. If people are really quitting over this, I say good riddance as the last thing the game needs is more entitled crybabies taking to the internet and spreading lies about how things are for their own personal gain. If you want to do what is best for the game, encourage people to take a risk to get the things that they think they need and stop spoon-feeding them.

Exactly. I like when people on strats say they quit the game, yet still post on stratics constantly. If that's true, they need a hobby because complaining on a message board of a game you don't play is borderline mental. If you don't want to risk dying getting a PS then do safe content and barter or pick a new game. People act like getting a PS is a 40 man raid that takes hours of time. Piper is easy and fast, if you are scared of getting killed then go to t2a. It's so easy.

 

[chester rockwell]

Taming is a grind. Once you're set, you just let your pet do everything. It's a playstyle. I think it's boring and slow. I have a tamer and really cant stand using him. I found alternate ways to kill stuff. I have 2 accts, I have a pvp thief, a samp, a tamer/mage, a mule, a 4/6 pvp dexxer, a stealth archer, a necro thrower, a 4x bard, a mage protector for spawns, a pvp rassle mystic (still suiting up), a pvp LP dexxer (that runs outta mana too quick, ugh), a couple others.......I play all of them. The one I play the least is the tamer......by far. It's so inefficient.

If you need help making a different type of char, a samp or a pvp toon that is easy to play and has survivability, let me know. Send me a pm. I'll help you. The fel facet is fun and taking away the PS would take away 50% of the game for me and others.....honestly, it would be more then 50%. I'd reckon I spend close to 80-90% of my time in fel. I'm not top-tier by any means, but I can hold my own. Most of that time is spent at spawns. All that would be gone if the PS get sent to tram.

If you want to try a red character, let me know. I'm more than willing to help. I have a template that is easy, survivable, gets some kills, easy to suit up, and is fun.

 

[Merth]

My opinion is that all of you are spot on lol. Everyone has their own opinion of what is best. I personally would like an easy button lol or at least easier. Not because its too hard to do but because i just dont have the time to pour into doing spawns, getting keys etc. I wouldnt mind PS’s being in the store or on “safe” mobs because that would help me. I dunno if it would help the game or not. Im hoping the vendor upgrade will cause more people to put PS’s on them. I just saw a house with 3 PS binders locked down and all 3 had over 100 in each so I know people have them but just not vending im sure due to vendor fees.

One comment about just do “safe” content to farm gold/items to pay for PS’s. Is not as easy as it sounds. Maybe for a fully scrolled, well suited character. For a new or returning player its not as easy as just go do this.

I do believe taking PS’s out of Fel will cause PVP/ thieving to take a big hit so that's definitely a bad option as it takes a chunk of game away.

Possible make small PS’s available in “safe areas 105/110 that cant be bindered/cross sharded would be a middle ground?

 

[Xris]

Possible make small PS’s available in “safe areas 105/110 that cant be bindered/cross sharded would be a middle ground?

I'd be fine with that because only people who are truly afraid of fel would waste their time filling books with 105s instead of doing a spawn.

 

[chester rockwell]

OP:
Also, the whole "people will leave the game" argument is pretty played out. People come and go. People stay more for the community than anything.
If you think some amazing amount of population will come back and everyone will make tamers by making PS drop in tram-set, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[railshot]

Player PS for pets should not have been implemented to begin with, and the mistake should have been foreseen before it happened.

Based on some things that devs let slip here and there, this situation was intentional to a degree. They consciously implemented the PSs the way they did to boost PvP. And they could not find a better way to do it, than by forcing PvMers to go to Fel. OFC, they did not anticipate people leaving over this, but thinking two steps ahead never seemed to be a strong suit here.[/QUOTE]

The fact remains, that WE ARE LOSING SUBS because of this "situation" due to people being unhappy. Yes some of us like the idea of danger, and risk etc. Go tell that to the player here in these posts that closed his accounts and quit. Do you think he is the only one? The few vocal people here LOVE the situation, like it its a thrill, and thankful even for this situation. But MOST people do NOT like the "situation", and are on the way out. Do you want this?

This. I have done plenty of PvP when I was younger. It's not a matter for me "discovering" how wonderful PvP is. I know and I don't care for it. When I get home after work, I want to relax and spend a couple of hours playing this sandbox game the way I like. If you try to force me into wasting my limited nightly play time just so that some **** could find a reason to PvP, I will go to a different game. It's sad that the devs could not or would not find a way to boost PvP without doing it at the expense of the PvMers.