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Make sure your statue was opened in Tokuno Islands to correctly see the ability on your pet ?

popps

Always Present
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While trying the Pet Planner for a Triton at Pet Planner | uo-cah.com

I got this message :

Caution: You have a Tokuno ability selected. Make sure your statue was opened in Tokuno Islands to correctly see the ability on your pet.

Does it matter on what facet one spawns a Triton in order to get a given type of Triton ??

Like there is a Felucca claimed Triton, a Trammel Claimed Triton, a Tokuno claimed Triton, a Malas claimed Triton etc. etc. ??
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
The Felucca ones do 5x damage to a player. Shhh keep it a secret or they will nerf it.

Have to spawn them at the Rat Spawn while a PvP Guild is there. and Piper is up.

Good Luck!


None of this is true.
LOL. I kind of wish that was true, not the 5x part, but that we could tame stronger pets in Fel.

@popps, If you want to put the full version of Bushido or Ninjitsu on a Triton you have to open the statue in Tokuno.
 

popps

Always Present
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LOL. I kind of wish that was true, not the 5x part, but that we could tame stronger pets in Fel.

@popps, If you want to put the full version of Bushido or Ninjitsu on a Triton you have to open the statue in Tokuno.
If you want to put the full version of Bushido or Ninjitsu on a Triton you have to open the statue in Tokuno.
And where was this said, publicly, if I may ask ?

How many players are actually informed about this particular "need" ?

Is the Tokuno statue opening the only "exception" or are there other ones that need to be known ?

Again, where all of this is listed about how, where and in what ways a player would need to claim a Triton from a Statue, if I may ask ?
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
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Non Tokuno pets can get these magics.

upload_2019-5-6_18-2-39.png

Some Pets can get Necromancy.

Pets that spawn in Tokuno have Ninjitsu and Bushido on that list.

Fire Beetles can not get Either. they are the exception.

Read Here : Animal Training – Ultima Online

Its the first page from Publish 97.
 

Khaelor

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
While trying the Pet Planner for a Triton at Pet Planner | uo-cah.com

I got this message :

Caution: You have a Tokuno ability selected. Make sure your statue was opened in Tokuno Islands to correctly see the ability on your pet.
This was discovered when the triton went live. We asked them about it privately and we were told it was not an issue.

This is a SANDBOX mmo, stop thinking the devs have to hold your hand regarding any nuances.

I'm beginning to think an animal tamer might be not the class for you.

Nothing in this game is mapped out by the dev's. It's player discovery.

Our whole webpage is based largely on player discovery, testing, searching back through archives of information, testing that information to see if it's accurate or finding what is accurate to begin with.
 
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Pawain

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@Khyro should have sent us all a PM about this! Or hired sky writers in every city.

Any of those store mounts have magic? We can make a Ninja skeletal cat if so. It will hide right before you need to escape from a PK!
 

celticus

Crazed Zealot
UNLEASHED
This was discovered when the triton went live. We asked them about it privately and we were told it was not an issue.

This is a SANDBOX mmo, stop thinking the devs have to hold your hand regarding any nuances.

I'm beginning to think an animal tamer might be not the class for you.

Nothing in this game is mapped out by the dev's. It's player discovery. It almost feels you are new to the game but post history says otherwise.

Our whole webpage is based largely on player discovery, testing, searching back through archives of information, testing that information to see if it's accurate or finding what is accurate to begin with.

:facepalm: . ?
 

Khyro

Sage
Stratics Veteran
@Khyro should have sent us all a PM about this! Or hired sky writers in every city.

Any of those store mounts have magic? We can make a Ninja skeletal cat if so. It will hide right before you need to escape from a PK!
Just Magical pets. Necromantic-only ones can't get it. So Lasher, Eowmu, and Vollems.
 

Pawain

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I'm with the Ks. If players were not here discussing what we have found and what we have tried we would not discover the game mechanics.

The first Christmas I got a Wristwatch so I could tell time to use the moongates. (I mostly just ran to a couple and went from place to place to get where I wanted.)
The bad Karma players got Coal. Soon we had a few black clothes. Some of those players made bolts of cloth so others could make black clothes.

Was this intended? I have not heard a Developer say it was or wasn't. Amazing how it happened again with the quest spider webs and white cloth. Also you can make a color with the Leather Wolf Skins.

UO has always been a game of discovery.

Sometimes hints are needed, but we do not need a step by step guide on how to double click a new item in the game.

I was killing Beacons while yall were going back and forth. I got a 123 and a 126 Wrestling. Both can have 2 magics ! Woot.
 

popps

Always Present
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Non Tokuno pets can get these magics.

View attachment 97557

Some Pets can get Necromancy.

Pets that spawn in Tokuno have Ninjitsu and Bushido on that list.

Fire Beetles can not get Either. they are the exception.

Read Here : Animal Training – Ultima Online

Its the first page from Publish 97.
Yet, the Triton is NOT like the other, regular Tameables which you refer to....

I has NO LAND to spawn, but is claimed through a STATUE which the player can happen to bring ANYWHERE.

The 2 things, to my opinion, CANNOT be mixed up because they are totally different.
 

popps

Always Present
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Stratics Legend
I'm with the Ks. If players were not here discussing what we have found and what we have tried we would not discover the game mechanics.

The first Christmas I got a Wristwatch so I could tell time to use the moongates. (I mostly just ran to a couple and went from place to place to get where I wanted.)
The bad Karma players got Coal. Soon we had a few black clothes. Some of those players made bolts of cloth so others could make black clothes.

Was this intended? I have not heard a Developer say it was or wasn't. Amazing how it happened again with the quest spider webs and white cloth. Also you can make a color with the Leather Wolf Skins.

UO has always been a game of discovery.

Sometimes hints are needed, but we do not need a step by step guide on how to double click a new item in the game.

I was killing Beacons while yall were going back and forth. I got a 123 and a 126 Wrestling. Both can have 2 magics ! Woot.
To my understanding, from the explaination given, the Tokuno use of the Triton statuette in order to get Bushido/Ninjitsu was found while the Triton was still under testing.

Correct ?

At that point, if I may ask, how much work and effort would it have taken to add a few lines of Text in a WARNING GUMP when a player clicked on a Triton Statuette that IF they wanted that Triton to come with Chivalry they had to have High Karma AND that if they wanted the Triton to come with Bushido/Ninjitsu they should have claimed the Triton while in Tokuno ?

This could have saved to many players with time costraints to play Ultima Online the end result to get a Triton, perhaps even a high Intensity one, NOT having those features which were important to them because they had no clue of those necessary requirements.....

Such bad results for players when a KNOWN issue in Testing, if I understood that correctly, would ONLY have taken a few lines of Text on a Warning Gump upon clicking on the Triton Statuette to take care of ?

Excuse me ?
 

Sweetpeez

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
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Popps: "Hey hummiez iz it raining?"

Hummie komin in fum da rain: "Yerg Popps itz rainin."

Popps: " How dooz yooa knowz dat rain? Did da God Hummiez tell yooz? Didi himz rite it in da Bible und say dat on da 7th ob May in 2019 it wuz gunna rain? Did yooz jus sneeze really big? Did yooz use da hosepipe? Yooz didnt put da lotion on yooz skin did yooz? How often hab yooz seen da rain? Hmmph yooz tryin to tell meez itz rainin und yooz only been seein rain fur 20 yearz?"

Goblinz: *peez on poppz*
 

Khaelor

Certifiable
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To my understanding, from the explaination given, the Tokuno use of the Triton statuette in order to get Bushido/Ninjitsu was found while the Triton was still under testing.

Correct ?

At that point, if I may ask, how much work and effort would it have taken to add a few lines of Text in a WARNING GUMP when a player clicked on a Triton Statuette that IF they wanted that Triton to come with Chivalry they had to have High Karma AND that if they wanted the Triton to come with Bushido/Ninjitsu they should have claimed the Triton while in Tokuno ?

This could have saved to many players with time costraints to play Ultima Online the end result to get a Triton, perhaps even a high Intensity one, NOT having those features which were important to them because they had no clue of those necessary requirements.....

Such bad results for players when a KNOWN issue in Testing, if I understood that correctly, would ONLY have taken a few lines of Text on a Warning Gump upon clicking on the Triton Statuette to take care of ?

Excuse me ?
No Popps. You are not understanding correctly. It was not known in testing. I'm sorry but we don't have the time nor resources to explain this further. People have limited resources, including the developers. Unfortunately ours are better spent where it can benefit the most community. In the future we will be more careful with the information we divulge to players. Mountains should not be made out of molehills.

Good luck with your animal training, if you continue to pursue it. I would perhaps slow down, start from the beginning. Trying to read and learn so much at once can be overwhelming.
 

Khyro

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Just imagine a player with time constraints to play Ultima Online who, with difficulty, gets the 140,000 Doubloons necessary to purchase a Triton statuette, who wanted it with Chivalry and perhaps also Bushido/Ninjitsu but had NO IDEA that they had to have a Tamer with high Karma AND claim it in Tokuno in order for it to have those abilities....
Against my better judgement, I feel I am once again forced to reply to this...

No idea why you are suddenly bringing up Chivalry, as that has worked the same on all pets since Pub 97 came out. You do not need positive Karma (let alone high karma) at the time of taming or when you use the Triton statue in order to train Chivalry.

If you have negative Karma, you simply have to kill stuff to get your tamer positive karma, then Chivalry will become available to train on pets that are capable of getting it (including the Triton).

Quoted from the Official UO Wiki: "Only creatures owned by characters with positive karma are capable of learning Chivalry". No where does it say you must have high karma before taming a pet, just that you need positive karma to train Chivalry. It has always been this way.

You cannot give a pet Chivalry and Bushido/Ninjitsu, as you insinuate above, this just shows that you still do not have a grasp on basic taming concepts (Which is fine, I am not knocking anyone for not being an expert), however you continue to make huge issues out of things you do not have a grasp on.

The Tokuno thing was discovered less than a week ago on the night the Triton were released. They are not going to push out a hotfix on a weekend to create a brand new gump to "Warn" players that they need to open the Triton in Tokuno in order to have Bushido/Ninjitsu available as training options. There are already many gumps in the game in regards to Animal Training that the majority of people ignore when they appear (such as the one that tells you that you cannot have two magical abilities active at once, which clearly you ignored based on your comment above about wanting Chivalry and Bushido).

Bushido is not an overpowered magical ability. It is not the best magical ability a pet can have. It is moderately useful as an alternate spec, but still falls extremely short compared to something like Chiv.

If you really want Bushido on a Triton, you can pop another statue in Tokuno, or I will be happy to trade you a Triton that was opened in Tokuno for yours that you feel is garbage now.
 
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popps

Always Present
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Stratics Legend
There are already many gumps in the game in regards to Animal Training that the majority of people ignore when they appear (such as the one that tells you that you cannot have two magical abilities active at once, which clearly you ignored based on your comment above about wanting Chivalry and Bushido).
If 2 magical abilities at once cannot be had on a pet, how come that I keep reading about Tritons with Armor Ignore AND Frenzied Whirlwind ?

Last I knew, Armor Ignore needs Chivalry and Frenzied Whirlwind requires Bushido/Ninjitsu (Frenzied Whirlwind - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia)

So, it is not possible but then, from what some Tamers say, in the end it looks as possible since, I understand, tamers talk on the Forums about training their Tritons with Armor Ignore + Frenzied Whirlwind ?
 

Khyro

Sage
Stratics Veteran
If 2 magical abilities at once cannot be had on a pet, how come that I keep reading about Tritons with Armor Ignore AND Frenzied Whirlwind ?

Last I knew, Armor Ignore needs Chivalry and Frenzied Whirlwind requires Bushido/Ninjitsu (Frenzied Whirlwind - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia)

So, it is not possible but then, from what some Tamers say, in the end it looks as possible since, I understand, tamers talk on the Forums about training their Tritons with Armor Ignore + Frenzied Whirlwind ?
There aren't even words anymore...

Armor Ignore does not, will not, and has never needed Chivalry. Have you even trained a single pet in your life? I'm serious. It honestly feels like you have not trained a single pet ever, and yet you continually go around spreading misinformation, and demanding changes to the system. There is a word for people like that... Trolls... I used to think you were just a really confused returning player, but now I am firmly of the belief that you are nothing more than just a Troll.

To anyone else that finds this thread (because it has and will happen that someone will find this thread, then start quoting Popps as fact, creating even further confusion)...

Armor Ignore and Frenzied Whirlwind can be trained by any pet, as long as that pet has available ability slots. It has nothing to do with where the pet is spawn, or how the pet is spawned. There is no secret handshake you must perform to unlock the super secret training menu.

Armor Ignore costs 100 training points and has no special requirements.

Frenzied Whirlwind costs 600 training points and includes passive Ninjitsu, which is automatically applied to your pet. Your pet does not need to be a Tokuno native to train Frenzied Whirlwind.

These are not secrets. This is clear information that anyone that has trained a single pet can see.

Passive Ninjitsu is bundled along with Frenzied Whirlwind because Frenzied Whirlwind is based on your Ninjitsu skill for the purpose of damage calculations. Ninjitsu is considered "passive" because pets are not given the Ninjitsu Magical Ability, only the skill.

Further, neither Armor Ignore nor Frenzied Whirlwind are "Magical Abilities". They are "Special Moves", which again, is extremely apparent to anyone that has ever trained a single pet, as that is the category they are listed under on the training gump.
 

popps

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Stratics Legend
Because Pawain gives misleading info about "2 magicals" which cause confusion. Pets with FWW have what we call passive ninjitsu, it's used ONLY for damage calculations, it's not an actual magic ability on the pet. It's just so the pet can properly use FWW. It doesn't do ANYTHING on the pet other than increase the damage of FWW. Most pets that can get a special move have access to frenzied whirlwind and the accompanying passive ninjitsu.

The pet does NOT need to spawn in Tokuno to get it.
@Khaelor

Hmmm.... thank you SO much about this clarification....

So, if I understood it correctly (please bear with me if I didn't...), a NON-Tokuno Spawned pet cannot get Bushido/Ninjitsu as a magical ability but it can STILL have Frenzied Whirlwind as a special move (perhaps along with the Armor Ignore from Chivalry if its Tamer so choose) even though it did not train (nor it can train since it did not spawn in Tokuno...) in Bushido/Ninjitsu ?

It sounds weird to me that a pet could be able to use the Frenzied Whirlwind special move even if it did not train in Bushido/Ninjitsu (because, not having spawned on Tokuno it is incapacitated to...) but if it is so, well, I do not know what to say....

The other part which I understood, is that if instead the Triton was actually spawned in Tokuno, then it can fully train up, as a magical ability, in Bushido/Ninjitsu (or Chivalry or any other magical ability which the Tamer may choose for their Triton) only, that at this point I do not understand what would be the point of that (actively train a Triton in Bushido/Ninjitsu by having it spawn in Tokuno), if then the special abilities coming from Bushido/Ninjitsu are fully available ALSO for all of the Tritons which did not and could not train up in Bushido/Ninjitsu because not having been claimed from the statuette in Tokuno....

To expert Tamers all of this might sound very clear and perfectly making sense.... to me, though, it does not and it is very much confusing....
 

popps

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Have you even trained a single pet in your life?
I thought that this was clear.... I have said it multiple times that I am totally new at this pets' training mechanics.... I have never trained a pet with this new pets' training mechanics....

I returned to Ultima Online from Years back, at that time, nothing of this was available content so, I am 100% not familiar with it at all and am trying to learn about it with great difficulties I must add, given all of the conflicting informations I seem to read around and some tamers saying some things and other tamers saying different things....

Passive Ninjitsu is bundled along with Frenzied Whirlwind because Frenzied Whirlwind is based on your Ninjitsu skill for the purpose of damage calculations. Ninjitsu is considered "passive" because pets are not given the Ninjitsu Magical Ability, only the skill.
When you talk about a pet having "passive" skills, by that, do you mean that a pet receives by default, automatically, any and all skills regardless whether they train in those skills or not, and that, consequentially, the moves associated to those skills can be nonetheless used even if those skills were not actively learnt by that tameable ?

Furthermore, you indicate that Armor Ignore does not need Chivalry to be executed by a pet.

Yet, I most always find it associated, when Tamers talk about the training of their pets, with Chivalry.

There is lots and lots of tamers' posts mentioning Chivalry+Armor Ignore as a special move and not another Magical ability+ Armor Ignore..... so what ?
 
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Khaelor

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I thought that this was clear.... I have said it multiple times that I am totally new at this pets' training mechanics.... I have never trained a pet with this new pets' training mechanics....

I returned to Ultima Online from Years back, at that time, nothing of this was available content so, I am 100% not familiar with it at all and am trying to learn about it with great difficulties I must add, given all of the conflicting informations I seem to read around and some tamers saying some things and other tamers saying different things....
TRAIN A PET, ANYTHING. Not something you want to keep. ANYTHING! (just not something you are attached to) you will not understand until you start training things.

Yes, you might ruin your pet, many of us did our first few pets we trained, but you will understand the system.
 
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SouthPaw

Lore Master
@popps, Go tame a Cu or a Lesser Hiryu and level them up. In fact I recommend taming 5 or more of them. If you make mistakes it's ok because they're easily replaceable. Try out a bunch of different abilities and magics on them. There's no point in talking about it here to try and figure it out until you've tamed up a few in the game.
 

Keven2002

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I thought I was reading the transcripts to a Jerry Springer show for a minute there! haha

@popps - I really do think you would benefit from hitting test center (which now has Triton clicky!!). As of yesterday you could copy over to TC1 from your home shard so take your tamer there and play around. I sympathize with you on not knowing all the ins and outs of taming (me either!) so no harm in asking questions but you definitely are coming off like people (Devs) owe you explanations for everything. The K's and Pawain are very helpful members of the community so I'd say the go above and beyond for giving explanations... no need to argue if you disagree with them. Bottom line - just open your tritons in Tok going forward and move along. There is no drawback (from my understanding) to opening exclusively in Tok (wait.. Pawain did you say FIVE TIMES the damage in Fel?!? :p ).

@Khaelor / @Khyro / @Pawain - I heard about the Tok thing the other day so I hopped on TC1 because my first few Tritons weren't opened in Tok but had the option for FWW. On TC1 I was able to add FWW & Feint and it gave me 40 in the respective skill when I used the clicky from Brit Commons and opened in Brit. It looked the same when I opened in Tok. Am I assuming correctly when the whole premise here is that if I open in Tok that Bush/Ninja will continue to increase versus it will stay at 40 if it wasn't opened in Tok??

Thanks!
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
I thought I was reading the transcripts to a Jerry Springer show for a minute there! haha

@popps - I really do think you would benefit from hitting test center (which now has Triton clicky!!). As of yesterday you could copy over to TC1 from your home shard so take your tamer there and play around. I sympathize with you on not knowing all the ins and outs of taming (me either!) so no harm in asking questions but you definitely are coming off like people (Devs) owe you explanations for everything. The K's and Pawain are very helpful members of the community so I'd say the go above and beyond for giving explanations... no need to argue if you disagree with them. Bottom line - just open your tritons in Tok going forward and move along. There is no drawback (from my understanding) to opening exclusively in Tok (wait.. Pawain did you say FIVE TIMES the damage in Fel?!? :p ).

@Khaelor / @Khyro / @Pawain - I heard about the Tok thing the other day so I hopped on TC1 because my first few Tritons weren't opened in Tok but had the option for FWW. On TC1 I was able to add FWW & Feint and it gave me 40 in the respective skill when I used the clicky from Brit Commons and opened in Brit. It looked the same when I opened in Tok. Am I assuming correctly when the whole premise here is that if I open in Tok that Bush/Ninja will continue to increase versus it will stay at 40 if it wasn't opened in Tok??

Thanks!
For ALL pets: If you train an ability, such as FWW, the bush/ninja skill will raise as your pet hunts, however it's "passive" bush/ninja. The pet will not do any of the bushido/ninja moves such as hiding, smoke bombs, evade, etc. The lore screen will still show ninja/bushido because those skills are needed to calculate damage for moves like FWW/WW/Feint. Also, using 120 ninja scrolls is recommended to increase the damage of FWW.

If the pet is opened or tamed in Tokuno you will then have the option to add Bushido/Ninja in the magics section and the pet will use the associated moves. This is often called "Full" bushido/ninja. So in this case ninja pets will use hiding and smoke bombs, and bush pets will use the various bushido defensive moves like evade. This is in addition to any abilities you may have added like FWW or WW.
 
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Keven2002

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Ah understood. Do we know if it matters if we add Bushido (500) then Feint (assuming 100) vs adding straight Feint (600pt which includes bushido)?
 

Pawain

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Ah understood. Do we know if it matters if we add Bushido (500) then Feint (assuming 100) vs adding straight Feint (600pt which includes bushido)?
You are getting too complex for a generalization. Some pet types have specials built in so if you add a magic first then you are finished.

But you could probably do that on this pet and other magical pets that start blank.

Best to take a pet to TC or ask here for specific builds on a specific pet type.

I have blank Hiryus and Bakes that I can test builds on.
 

Khyro

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Ah understood. Do we know if it matters if we add Bushido (500) then Feint (assuming 100) vs adding straight Feint (600pt which includes bushido)?
Adding Bushido then Feint will cost 601 points. (500 for the Bushido Skill. 1 point to activate the Bushido Magical. 100 for Feint)
Adding Feint then Bushido will cost 601 points. (600 for Feint + Passive Bushido Skill. 1 Point to activate the Bushido Magical).

You have to spend 1 point to activate any magical ability, whether it is added passively or actively. The rest of the cost is for acquiring the skillcap of 100 for that skill.
 

Pawain

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Lets not confuse a certain poster. @Khyro

Ah understood. Do we know if it matters if we add Bushido (500) then Feint (assuming 100) vs adding straight Feint (600pt which includes bushido)?
Adding Bushido gives WW. If you chose AI the order matters.

If I want a pet with AI also and what you want you have to do it in the correct order.

If you choose AI then Bushido you will get WW so you will not be able to get Feint. You will have AI,WW, Bushido.

If you choose AI then Feint, then Bushido. You will have a Triton with AI, Feint,WW and Bushido.

The points are the same on the WW Bushido but if you do it in a different order you may not be able to build the pet you want.
 

Pawain

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I win UO!

upload_2019-5-7_17-7-29.png

Never will die!

Can also add a special if you do in correct order.

upload_2019-5-7_17-13-31.png
 
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Khyro

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Lets not confuse a certain poster. @Khyro



Adding Bushido gives WW. If you chose AI the order matters.

If I want a pet with AI also and what you want you have to do it in the correct order.

If you choose AI then Bushido you will get WW so you will not be able to get Feint. You will have AI,WW, Bushido.

If you choose AI then Feint, then Bushido. You will have a Triton with AI, Feint,WW and Bushido.

The points are the same on the WW Bushido but if you do it in a different order you may not be able to build the pet you want.
I'm done worrying about confusing a certain other poster, the sun rising does that already.

The post I was replying to didn't ask about adding AI, they asked about any training cost difference based on training order of Feint/Bushido, so I replied to that point. No need to over-complicate explanations to direct questions. You can toss Explosive Goo onto that Triton too if you wanted for an even more bloated build.
 

Pawain

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I tried the WW and FWW at the beginning.

Those would be a novelty pet IMO.

If I get bored I have some <120 Tritons I can do something like that with.

I popped those on TC to make them. The first one I popped was 130 wrestling with 180 str... makes me sick.
 
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Keven2002

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Lets not confuse a certain poster. @Khyro



Adding Bushido gives WW. If you chose AI the order matters.

If I want a pet with AI also and what you want you have to do it in the correct order.

If you choose AI then Bushido you will get WW so you will not be able to get Feint. You will have AI,WW, Bushido.

If you choose AI then Feint, then Bushido. You will have a Triton with AI, Feint,WW and Bushido.

The points are the same on the WW Bushido but if you do it in a different order you may not be able to build the pet you want.
Very helpful and this is kind of what I was looking for because I remember reading order does matter. I like the idea of AI/Feint for the Triton so I definitely want to get the order right. For my current build idea I'm starting to think maybe I don't add Bushido because it would be for killing a single target so while I like the idea of having Bushido (for just 1 point to activate); I'm worried that this might waste mana on using WW too much instead of AI/Feint. I'm also assuming the pet won't cast evade regardless (which I initially thought it would if it had Bushido) so it might be more beneficial to skip the Bushido (or not pop the triton in Tok) for a single target attacking build.

@Pawain - I'm looking for somewhat of a super tank (deal out high damage but doesn't need to be healed non-stop) for a single target (like the roof). Would you agree with my above thought that adding true Bushido would likely just end up taking away mana from my AI/Feints?
 

popps

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Very helpful and this is kind of what I was looking for because I remember reading order does matter. I like the idea of AI/Feint for the Triton so I definitely want to get the order right. For my current build idea I'm starting to think maybe I don't add Bushido because it would be for killing a single target so while I like the idea of having Bushido (for just 1 point to activate); I'm worried that this might waste mana on using WW too much instead of AI/Feint. I'm also assuming the pet won't cast evade regardless (which I initially thought it would if it had Bushido) so it might be more beneficial to skip the Bushido (or not pop the triton in Tok) for a single target attacking build.

@Pawain - I'm looking for somewhat of a super tank (deal out high damage but doesn't need to be healed non-stop) for a single target (like the roof). Would you agree with my above thought that adding true Bushido would likely just end up taking away mana from my AI/Feints?
@Keven2002

You got me confused....

You say that "For my current build idea I'm starting to think maybe I don't add Bushido because it would be for killing a single target ....."

So, my understanding from reading that is that Bushido training would be good for killing a single Target....

But then, you also say "......so it might be more beneficial to skip the Bushido (or not pop the triton in Tok) for a single target attacking build. "

So, I no longer understand whether training a Triton in Bushido would be beneficial for a single target attacking build....

The reason for me asking, is that I would also like to train a Triton to be a good Tank and mostly for single target attacking...

Any advice ?
 

Keven2002

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@Keven2002

You got me confused....

You say that "For my current build idea I'm starting to think maybe I don't add Bushido because it would be for killing a single target ....."

So, my understanding from reading that is that Bushido training would be good for killing a single Target....

But then, you also say "......so it might be more beneficial to skip the Bushido (or not pop the triton in Tok) for a single target attacking build. "

So, I no longer understand whether training a Triton in Bushido would be beneficial for a single target attacking build....

The reason for me asking, is that I would also like to train a Triton to be a good Tank and mostly for single target attacking...

Any advice ?
@popps - Feint is a Bushido move. Having the move (and using it) will passively gain the skill but your pet will not use any other Bushido move (like Whirlwind). That is different than having active Bushido (which would only cost 1pt to activate if you already have feint) which would then use mana on things like Whirlwind. Obviously using whirlwind against a single target doesn't serve much purpose so if this is the primary Bushido move used (or used more than AI) than it really becomes an unnecessary mana drain. I'm not 100% sure if there are any other usable Bushido moves that would warrant activating Bushido (can't get into game to check the description) if you are hunting a single target.

Like I said it really depends on how much WW is used versus other things and if there is any other Bushido move gained (not sure what they are for a pet off the top of my head).
 

Pawain

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Very helpful and this is kind of what I was looking for because I remember reading order does matter. I like the idea of AI/Feint for the Triton so I definitely want to get the order right. For my current build idea I'm starting to think maybe I don't add Bushido because it would be for killing a single target so while I like the idea of having Bushido (for just 1 point to activate); I'm worried that this might waste mana on using WW too much instead of AI/Feint. I'm also assuming the pet won't cast evade regardless (which I initially thought it would if it had Bushido) so it might be more beneficial to skip the Bushido (or not pop the triton in Tok) for a single target attacking build.

@Pawain - I'm looking for somewhat of a super tank (deal out high damage but doesn't need to be healed non-stop) for a single target (like the roof). Would you agree with my above thought that adding true Bushido would likely just end up taking away mana from my AI/Feints?
If you are doing the roof with a pet now and there are two of you you should go with AI/Chiv on both and put some more HP on yours instead of mor magic.

Active Bushido has good defensive spells. FWW or WW is not a large damager on a single target. This Triton with its high HP and healing is tanky already.

I would Find one with >125 Wrestling and use a 120 chiv scroll and put the others at 110 or 115. Build the melee skills to max and get the Chiv to 100 and try it.

I think you will like it. Then build another, with higher wrestling if you can find one, with higher scrolls.

Then you can play around with Tanky stuff later.

Building pets is a long term fun thing.

We thought Tanky was a good idea when the revamp came out. We had AI WW Bush Lesser Hiryus.
Then we built an AI/Chiv. We found the high hits was a better defense than tanky was. Plus we had the added bonus of better offense.

Depending on whether I feel like I want to kill Beacons or train my Tritons, I am going to have a couple of AI/Chiv ones ready to show soon.
 
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Keven2002

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If you are doing the roof with a pet now and there are two of you you should go with AI/Chiv on both and put some more HP on yours instead of mor magic.

Active Bushido has good defensive spells. FWW or WW is not a large damager on a single target. This Triton with its high HP and healing is tanky already.

I would Find one with >125 Wrestling and use a 120 chiv scroll and put the others at 110 or 115. Build the melee skills to max and get the Chiv to 100 and try it.

I think you will like it. Then build another, with higher wrestling if you can find one, with higher scrolls.

Then you can play around with Tanky stuff later.

Building pets is a long term fun thing.

We thought Tanky was a good idea when the revamp came out. We had AI WW Bush Lesser Hiryus.
Then we built an AI/Chiv. We found the high hits was a better defense than tanky was. Plus we had the added bonus of better offense.

Depending on whether I feel like I want to kill Beacons or train my Tritons, I am going to have a couple of AI/Chiv ones ready to show soon.
@Pawain - That's what I figured about about FWW & WW not being a large damage thing on single target. Do you know what other spells Bushido hits on a pet? I logged in last night to check Bushido and there was no mention of what spells are casted with the magic. If the only spell Im getting with active Bushido is WW then I wouldn't add it but if the pet will also use Evade and Confidence (with Feint) then I'd see more of a point to add it.

Thanks
 

Lord Frodo

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So @Khaelor what would you build be for a general all around butt kicking Triton or would you use a different pet.
 

Keven2002

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FWW is good damage on the right target, FWW does have the potential to more damage than AI on the right low physical resist mob.

As for what Bushido spells a pet uses, the information is available on our webpage.

I did an active Bushido/Feint Triton just for fun, have it leveled to 120 Bushido, but it has too much bloat, in my opinion. I would just prefer a feint triton over that.
This is exactly what I was looking for! Of course Bushido would give all those option to make my decision harder lol.

@Khaelor - How good was the pet AI on using the bushido spells? It looks like the honorable execution only hits when the target is < 10% HP which is good but I'm wondering if you noticed your pet casting momentum strike if there isn't more than 1 target in range or casting something like confidence several times when it doesn't need to (let's say HP are 90% full)? Did it spam lightning strike? Is that what you meant by too much bloat? The pet just casts a bushido spell to cast? I'd likely pair this with AI so ideally that's the primary ability used along with feint and then the other bushido spells are used as needed (like evasion and confidence).

So @Khaelor what would you build be for a general all around butt kicking Triton or would you use a different pet.
That's a loaded question! I think the response you get will be something along the lines of "depends on your play style and template". I read a few other posts from the K's & Pawain where this question was asked. Basically it will depend if you are solo or in a group, what your template is (Tamer/archer? Tamer/bard? Tamer/Weaver? etc), do you plan on PvP or PvM, are you trying to do max damage to speed through the fight or trying to make a self sustaining pet (which takes longer to kill things)? These are just the typical ones I've seen when this question was asked.
 

Pawain

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Try an ai/chiv at 100 chiv on the roof. Build novelty tritons for fun.
Unless you don't have consume or your other pets were dying.
 

Lord Frodo

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This is exactly what I was looking for! Of course Bushido would give all those option to make my decision harder lol.

@Khaelor - How good was the pet AI on using the bushido spells? It looks like the honorable execution only hits when the target is < 10% HP which is good but I'm wondering if you noticed your pet casting momentum strike if there isn't more than 1 target in range or casting something like confidence several times when it doesn't need to (let's say HP are 90% full)? Did it spam lightning strike? Is that what you meant by too much bloat? The pet just casts a bushido spell to cast? I'd likely pair this with AI so ideally that's the primary ability used along with feint and then the other bushido spells are used as needed (like evasion and confidence).



That's a loaded question! I think the response you get will be something along the lines of "depends on your play style and template". I read a few other posts from the K's & Pawain where this question was asked. Basically it will depend if you are solo or in a group, what your template is (Tamer/archer? Tamer/bard? Tamer/Weaver? etc), do you plan on PvP or PvM, are you trying to do max damage to speed through the fight or trying to make a self sustaining pet (which takes longer to kill things)? These are just the typical ones I've seen when this question was asked.
That is why I said a general all around type of pet.
 

Keven2002

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Try an ai/chiv at 100 chiv on the roof. Build novelty tritons for fun.
Unless you don't have consume or your other pets were dying.
Ahh maybe that is where the miscommunication was on my part. I wasn't thinking of a Bushido triton as a novelty (they have feelings too ya know!). I was looking at it as a very real build that I would use in place of AI/Chiv. Like you said before there was the tanky Hiryu for a while until Chiv/AI came around to replace it. I was looking at it that Bushido Triton could potentially be like that (it won't outdamage AI/Chiv but it could be a pet death-proof build); essentially tell it to attack a single target and let it do it's thing (maybe sit back and shoot a bow).

That is why I said a general all around type of pet.
Not trying to be difficult but based on the answers to those questions you go totally different paths. It's like saying if you live in South Texas and want to travel in the US, generally speaking you should travel north. North will be great for some places but there are two completely separate directions when talking about going to NY vs CA. I think as Pawain has said in previous posts, if you make a Chiv/AI Triton you will not be disappointed. That said there could be better builds out there based on the answers to those questions. :)
 

Pawain

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Ahh maybe that is where the miscommunication was on my part. I wasn't thinking of a Bushido triton as a novelty (they have feelings too ya know!). I was looking at it as a very real build that I would use in place of AI/Chiv. Like you said before there was the tanky Hiryu for a while until Chiv/AI came around to replace it. I was looking at it that Bushido Triton could potentially be like that (it won't outdamage AI/Chiv but it could be a pet death-proof build); essentially tell it to attack a single target and let it do it's thing (maybe sit back and shoot a bow).
I'm just saying any pet with healing is a tank if you can heal or run consume. I am also specifically talking about the Roof. I have a lot better chance of dying than any AI/Chiv pet I have taken there.

If you refuse/ can't heal or run consume, then you can try something Tanky.

The trade off with More tanky than a Healing pet with AI/Chiv is you will do less damage over time.

Unless you are running a team template that takes advantage of what a pet can do like the Ks say they do then you will be fine with a general AI/Chiv build.

The Ks and Playerskillftw probably could do the same thing they are doing without a pet on the roof.

I speak for the player who wants a pet that the only interaction between he and the player is the player running consume or healing the pet.

I have some "novelty build ideas coming soon".
 

Khaelor

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I'm just saying any pet is a tank if you can heal or run consume.
fixed.

I am also specifically talking about the Roof. I have a lot better chance of dying than any AI/Chiv pet I have taken there.

If you refuse/ can't heal or run consume, then you can try something Tanky.

The trade off with More tanky than a Healing pet with AI/Chiv is you will do less damage over time.
"Tank" pets are needed for very specific encounters (I would not consider roof one of them) or very specific templates.

Unless you are running a team template that takes advantage of what a pet can do like the Ks say they do then you will be fine with a general AI/Chiv build.
I've always been about maximizing my pet's damage, It's why I don't really bother with many non-Chiv pets, including the pets I use when with @Khyro. We do synergize our though and even casual players can do that pretty effortlessly.

I speak for the player who wants a pet that the only interaction between he and the player is the player running consume or healing the pet.
Isn't that every player and every pet?

That is the players interaction with the pet, running consume, healing, or no interaction at all. Unless, I guess, you like to pat the pet during battle and offer it words of encouragement...which I may or may not be known to do.
 
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Pawain

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Isn't that every player and every pet?

That is the players interaction with the pet, running consume, healing, or no interaction at all.
I miss worded that, I really meant tamers interaction with the encounter.

After seeing those videos of @Khyro casting spells at warp speed, I can't picture him as a laid back player that is chatting or posting while doing a spawn.
 
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