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mages, mages, and more mages
- Thread starter Alex the Gray
- Start date
- Watchers 0
I
imported_OldAsTheHills
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I see a lot of posts here about the hell-spawned and completely evil nefarious tamers.
Mages get good damage, no-penalty weapons (do necros or paladins or spell-weavers get these?)
faster casting and faster casting recovery.
Mages are a far more un-balanced template then tamers. Tamers tame cus they have slow connections, or lack time to power-game.
Mages get advantages that no other players get, yet I see no complaints about this template. Im curious as to why this is.
[/ QUOTE ]I see that your primary
thread posting is like a fisherman baiting the hook and casting it upon the water.
I believe now you have a thread complaining about Magery and I hope this
satisfies you! I also hope you are enjoying the information which other just
allow you to reel into your basket!
To you and the others on this shard...
Magery has to have unique advantage in order to make it different...
from all the other skills. Please just accept that Magery is what it is, an useful
skill and move on to something else.
*stares*
Yahaxithonix
I see a lot of posts here about the hell-spawned and completely evil nefarious tamers.
Mages get good damage, no-penalty weapons (do necros or paladins or spell-weavers get these?)
faster casting and faster casting recovery.
Mages are a far more un-balanced template then tamers. Tamers tame cus they have slow connections, or lack time to power-game.
Mages get advantages that no other players get, yet I see no complaints about this template. Im curious as to why this is.
[/ QUOTE ]I see that your primary
thread posting is like a fisherman baiting the hook and casting it upon the water.
I believe now you have a thread complaining about Magery and I hope this
satisfies you! I also hope you are enjoying the information which other just
allow you to reel into your basket!
To you and the others on this shard...
Magery has to have unique advantage in order to make it different...
from all the other skills. Please just accept that Magery is what it is, an useful
skill and move on to something else.
*stares*
Yahaxithonix
M
Masumatek
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Yes it's 120 skill points when you can swing that staff of magi/pyro just as accurately as a legendary fencer swinging a spear.
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ok for arguements sake lets say we drop the mage wep mod so now necro mages arent overpowerd, how can you justify your wep being able to shoot fireballs or whatever without any skill invested in magery? shall we nerf that next?
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone is trying to "justify" any other item mods except for you. I don't believe most of the mods today should exist, or they should be severely capped...much more so than they are capped now.
However, -mage weapon is complete bs, is extremely overpowered, and far more so than most if not all other item mods. You have to come to terms with that. Being able to avoid having an entire skill doesn't compare to being able to randomly sometimes get a fireball or lightning off from your weapon. Heck, I'd say remove curse items, petals, and potions are more overpowered than hit spell effects.
Yes it's 120 skill points when you can swing that staff of magi/pyro just as accurately as a legendary fencer swinging a spear.
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ok for arguements sake lets say we drop the mage wep mod so now necro mages arent overpowerd, how can you justify your wep being able to shoot fireballs or whatever without any skill invested in magery? shall we nerf that next?
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone is trying to "justify" any other item mods except for you. I don't believe most of the mods today should exist, or they should be severely capped...much more so than they are capped now.
However, -mage weapon is complete bs, is extremely overpowered, and far more so than most if not all other item mods. You have to come to terms with that. Being able to avoid having an entire skill doesn't compare to being able to randomly sometimes get a fireball or lightning off from your weapon. Heck, I'd say remove curse items, petals, and potions are more overpowered than hit spell effects.
M
Masumatek
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Right...so because a necro spell can be useful, you think it's overpowered???
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i never said i thought it was overpowerd,i was just trying to be sarcastic to you because i think its funny everything thats comes from you is nerf this! nerf that! why dont you just go play a free shard and make yourself happier cause it doesnt seem anything will make you happy in todays uo.
[/ QUOTE ]
Aren't you suggesting to nerf necromancy....?
Right...so because a necro spell can be useful, you think it's overpowered???
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i never said i thought it was overpowerd,i was just trying to be sarcastic to you because i think its funny everything thats comes from you is nerf this! nerf that! why dont you just go play a free shard and make yourself happier cause it doesnt seem anything will make you happy in todays uo.
[/ QUOTE ]
Aren't you suggesting to nerf necromancy....?
U
uomlplayer
Guest
Aren't you suggesting to nerf necromancy....?
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where did i say i want necro nerfed? im not the one here crying about mages being overpowerd because of one mod that comes with a hefty penalty? im just trying to point out how stupid it is for you to cry about this mod.
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where did i say i want necro nerfed? im not the one here crying about mages being overpowerd because of one mod that comes with a hefty penalty? im just trying to point out how stupid it is for you to cry about this mod.
U
uomlplayer
Guest
you realize you stand on very very thin ice trying to argue that the -0 mageweapon property isnt extremely powerful compared to other mods?
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how so? please explain.
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how so? please explain.
U
uomlplayer
Guest
ok this gonna be my last post on this,i just wanted to point out i dont want anything nerfor whatnot but was trying to makea point about all this nerfing and where does it end? with that being said i would like to know whats everyones deffinition of "balance" and "overpowerd".
for me balance is where every template has disadavantages(where its not a big enough of a disadvantage to make it useless against all templates) and adavantages (where not big enough to dominate every other template) thats closest to balance for me imo.
my deffiniton of overpowerd is for example the bush/archerer/wod archerer back when you can one hit kill.this is overpowerd and needed a good nerf not some insignificant mod that everyone seems to think is "overpowerd" because they just want to mindlessly nerf everything...
again i ask when will mindless nerfing stop?
for me balance is where every template has disadavantages(where its not a big enough of a disadvantage to make it useless against all templates) and adavantages (where not big enough to dominate every other template) thats closest to balance for me imo.
my deffiniton of overpowerd is for example the bush/archerer/wod archerer back when you can one hit kill.this is overpowerd and needed a good nerf not some insignificant mod that everyone seems to think is "overpowerd" because they just want to mindlessly nerf everything...
again i ask when will mindless nerfing stop?
G
Guest
Guest
has nothing to do with a nerf mindlessly. also we are not talking about overpowered or underpowered templates, we are talking about properties. and yes i know, we doesnt include mods, but i already told mas what i think about his solution to tune down necromages and told him that i think its stupid as it wont solve it, just change the template, its the casting cap that needs to be lowered on both skills when combined (as well as combinations of other skills, magery and necro arent the only skills).
right now, having a staff of magi in your hand is equal to having a black staff with +120 macing in your hand (assuming you have 120 magery). it gives you same ability to evade and to hit. there are a few differences in combination with other skills that dont matter thoo. further it is a mod only avaible for one group of template, namely mages. i would without a doubt call it the most powerful property avaible, id be interested to hear which one you think is more powerful.
right now, having a staff of magi in your hand is equal to having a black staff with +120 macing in your hand (assuming you have 120 magery). it gives you same ability to evade and to hit. there are a few differences in combination with other skills that dont matter thoo. further it is a mod only avaible for one group of template, namely mages. i would without a doubt call it the most powerful property avaible, id be interested to hear which one you think is more powerful.
U
uomlplayer
Guest
if you put it that way...i would like to see necros/and other templates use the sc mod when casting spells wep a wep in hand cause according to you isnt it the same thing as mage weps is only for mages? and sc is not needed for necros only? because they are only group that casts spells and use weps together? isnt that overpowerd?
U
uomlplayer
Guest
having 2! free mods on a weapon is just like having free deffence skills.
A
AntiOTF
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
and sc is not needed for necros only? because they are only group that casts spells and use weps together? isnt that overpowerd?
[/ QUOTE ]
1. Necromancers are half breeds, warrior type mages (hybrids)
2. Their spells are not as affective as magery spells
3. They only have 17 spells, opposed to the 64 that mages have.
Shall I continue?
and sc is not needed for necros only? because they are only group that casts spells and use weps together? isnt that overpowerd?
[/ QUOTE ]
1. Necromancers are half breeds, warrior type mages (hybrids)
2. Their spells are not as affective as magery spells
3. They only have 17 spells, opposed to the 64 that mages have.
Shall I continue?
D
Dark_Schneider
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
1. Necromancers are half breeds, warrior type mages (hybrids)
2. Their spells are not as affective as magery spells
3. They only have 17 spells, opposed to the 64 that mages have.
Shall I continue?
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1 no where does it say you have to be a hybrid for necro to be affective.
2. your wrong most necros spells are just as effective as magery spells if not better.
3.so does that mean every other temp that have less spells than magery deserves something each for thier template only? just because magery has more spells then them?
please continue.....
[/ QUOTE ]
Necromancy and Chivalry were released simultaneously and were targeted at meleers (i.e. curse weapon, ever seen a mage necro use this? dont think so)
Chilvarly does not have the SPELL damage of Necro pvp (althought I think it owns necro for pvm damage vs a single monster) but chivalry also got 4/6 casting cap giving it amazing heal and cure capabilities that necro DOES NOT have.
By your logic, chivalry should be spell channeling too.
1. Necromancers are half breeds, warrior type mages (hybrids)
2. Their spells are not as affective as magery spells
3. They only have 17 spells, opposed to the 64 that mages have.
Shall I continue?
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1 no where does it say you have to be a hybrid for necro to be affective.
2. your wrong most necros spells are just as effective as magery spells if not better.
3.so does that mean every other temp that have less spells than magery deserves something each for thier template only? just because magery has more spells then them?
please continue.....
[/ QUOTE ]
Necromancy and Chivalry were released simultaneously and were targeted at meleers (i.e. curse weapon, ever seen a mage necro use this? dont think so)
Chilvarly does not have the SPELL damage of Necro pvp (althought I think it owns necro for pvm damage vs a single monster) but chivalry also got 4/6 casting cap giving it amazing heal and cure capabilities that necro DOES NOT have.
By your logic, chivalry should be spell channeling too.
U
uomlplayer
Guest
Necromancy and Chivalry were released simultaneously and were targeted at meleers (i.e. curse weapon, ever seen a mage necro use this? dont think so)
Chilvarly does not have the SPELL damage of Necro pvp (althought I think it owns necro for pvm damage vs a single monster) but chivalry also got 4/6 casting cap giving it amazing heal and cure capabilities that necro DOES NOT have.
By your logic, chivalry should be spell channeling too.
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umm just because you have never seen a mage use curse wep doesnt mean no body uses it? i can understand tho,nowadays you hardly see any pure mages around let alone necromage,and yet everyone still wants to nerf them.
and yes if it was up to me chiv would need spellchanneling to cast spells to they are casting spells are they not?
my logic is not more so flawed more than mas's logic,he wants apples/pots/whatever else removed cause in his own mind its overpowering cause it harms the template he plays......
Chilvarly does not have the SPELL damage of Necro pvp (althought I think it owns necro for pvm damage vs a single monster) but chivalry also got 4/6 casting cap giving it amazing heal and cure capabilities that necro DOES NOT have.
By your logic, chivalry should be spell channeling too.
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umm just because you have never seen a mage use curse wep doesnt mean no body uses it? i can understand tho,nowadays you hardly see any pure mages around let alone necromage,and yet everyone still wants to nerf them.
and yes if it was up to me chiv would need spellchanneling to cast spells to they are casting spells are they not?
my logic is not more so flawed more than mas's logic,he wants apples/pots/whatever else removed cause in his own mind its overpowering cause it harms the template he plays......
U
uomlplayer
Guest
i just wanted to add in a point i missed in earlier posts,everyone keeps saying the mage wep mod is so overpowering and its only good for the mage but everyone fail to realise there are things that is suppose to be only for mages only. and there are things that bennfit every other template that is suppose to be mage exsclusive but bennefit from? for example fc/fcr jewlery why should a dexter with these jewls be able to cast spells just as fast as a mage? i mean DEXTER is only good at swinging a wep? not casting? BOTTOM LINE IS theres lots of things that bennifit each template but is not overpowering cause it does not cause that certain template to be dominate in pvp against all other classes.
M
Masumatek
Guest
I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop putting words in my mouth. I'm not selfish and only considering what is good for me, but instead the game. In my mind "pots/apples/petals/etc are bs no matter what template I play.
In fact, you're wrong. On the archer template I was just using, certainly these things don't cause me harm. Apples and especially petals are of HUGE benefit to that template. On the necro-mage templates I'm about to switch into, I can use all three and all of them, especially pots, will be a huge benefit to the tempalte.
Do not make the horrible assumption that if someone asks something to be nerfed or changed they are doing so for themselves. Some people, such as me, are asking for it for the good of the game.
In fact, you're wrong. On the archer template I was just using, certainly these things don't cause me harm. Apples and especially petals are of HUGE benefit to that template. On the necro-mage templates I'm about to switch into, I can use all three and all of them, especially pots, will be a huge benefit to the tempalte.
Do not make the horrible assumption that if someone asks something to be nerfed or changed they are doing so for themselves. Some people, such as me, are asking for it for the good of the game.
D
Dark_Schneider
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
i said in above post there are things in game that bennefit each and every other tmeplate that one temp or another cant use but is not overpowering! why is it overpowering in your eyes? does it make it so that the necro mage or what ever dominate in pvp? he one hit kills?
[/ QUOTE ]
Example Template:
a.
120 mage
120 eval
120 med
120 resist
120 wreslting
100 Inscribe
20 points to spare
b. (with staff of pyros)
120 mage
120 eval
120 med
120 resist
100 Inscribe
140 points to spare, can do things like, remove scribe and get 120 necro/120 spirit, or become a nox mage, etc..
There are templates that shouldn't be possible, but are because the mage with the mage weap does not spend any skill points in a defense skill like wrestling.
i said in above post there are things in game that bennefit each and every other tmeplate that one temp or another cant use but is not overpowering! why is it overpowering in your eyes? does it make it so that the necro mage or what ever dominate in pvp? he one hit kills?
[/ QUOTE ]
Example Template:
a.
120 mage
120 eval
120 med
120 resist
120 wreslting
100 Inscribe
20 points to spare
b. (with staff of pyros)
120 mage
120 eval
120 med
120 resist
100 Inscribe
140 points to spare, can do things like, remove scribe and get 120 necro/120 spirit, or become a nox mage, etc..
There are templates that shouldn't be possible, but are because the mage with the mage weap does not spend any skill points in a defense skill like wrestling.
U
uomlplayer
Guest
can you one hit kill with these? can you use these template to dominate every other temp?
G
Guest
Guest
im not talking about templates or playstyles, im talking about properties. also im aware that there are other properties that need to be looked at (and i dont think sc is that high in line, hld and hla are for example higher on my list), that doesnt make -mage any more or less powerful thoo and you cant really use it as a way to determine if there is anything wrong with mageweapon or not.
U
uomlplayer
Guest
so where does it end? why dont we just revert back to naked mages days? then would everyone be happy?
G
Guest
Guest
nah, there also were imbalances back then i bet, at least from what i heard. there are plenty of other games that show how well you can balance things out, so id say it ends where everything is balanced out xD
U
uomlplayer
Guest
so how do you determine how well balance everything is?
U
uomlplayer
Guest
i guess balance is when everyone stopps crying nerf but we all know how that wont happen becuase someone will always come up with a exscuse to nerf things....
D
Dark_Schneider
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
i guess balance is when everyone stopps crying nerf but we all know how that wont happen becuase someone will always come up with a exscuse to nerf things....
[/ QUOTE ]
whats it mean that I say to nerf my own char? (i.e. removing mage weap) can't be an "excuse" to nerf it when i benefit from it and see what advantage im getting.
Things can never be PERFECTLY balanced in a game with so many different skills and template possibilities, there will always be even slight imbalances, and people will always be trying to iron even those out.
i guess balance is when everyone stopps crying nerf but we all know how that wont happen becuase someone will always come up with a exscuse to nerf things....
[/ QUOTE ]
whats it mean that I say to nerf my own char? (i.e. removing mage weap) can't be an "excuse" to nerf it when i benefit from it and see what advantage im getting.
Things can never be PERFECTLY balanced in a game with so many different skills and template possibilities, there will always be even slight imbalances, and people will always be trying to iron even those out.
U
uomlplayer
Guest
Things can never be PERFECTLY balanced in a game with so many different skills and template possibilities, there will always be even slight imbalances, and people will always be trying to iron even those out.
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Eactly, how does one determine how balanced everything is? is it because you said so? no? is it because i said so? no? so how do we know where to stop?
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Eactly, how does one determine how balanced everything is? is it because you said so? no? is it because i said so? no? so how do we know where to stop?
D
Dark_Schneider
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Things can never be PERFECTLY balanced in a game with so many different skills and template possibilities, there will always be even slight imbalances, and people will always be trying to iron even those out.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eactly, how does one determine how balanced everything is? is it because you said so? no? is it because i said so? no? so how do we know where to stop?
[/ QUOTE ]
People bring their opinions and debate.
In your case the only solution is to agree to disagree as your not budging, and nor is anyone arguing with you.
When the dev's listen to the debates etc.. they'll typically go with what the majority says.
Things can never be PERFECTLY balanced in a game with so many different skills and template possibilities, there will always be even slight imbalances, and people will always be trying to iron even those out.
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Eactly, how does one determine how balanced everything is? is it because you said so? no? is it because i said so? no? so how do we know where to stop?
[/ QUOTE ]
People bring their opinions and debate.
In your case the only solution is to agree to disagree as your not budging, and nor is anyone arguing with you.
When the dev's listen to the debates etc.. they'll typically go with what the majority says.
G
Guest
Guest
balancometer :O
but seriously, can only balance something by either designing it very very well or by alot of testing and readjusting. sadly ea hasnt done and isnt doing neither of those. all we get is more publishes with more new stuff, if we get a rare fix its mostly linked to more stuff needed to get fixed or just done crappy.
but seriously, can only balance something by either designing it very very well or by alot of testing and readjusting. sadly ea hasnt done and isnt doing neither of those. all we get is more publishes with more new stuff, if we get a rare fix its mostly linked to more stuff needed to get fixed or just done crappy.
I
imported_BlacK RaiN
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
i guess balance is when everyone stopps crying nerf but we all know how that wont happen becuase someone will always come up with a exscuse to nerf things....
[/ QUOTE ]
when if you play any class well... you're golden to do so.
or
when if you play any class poorly... you suck and are cannon fodder.
now lets discuss "knowing your role" and the pecking order.
i guess balance is when everyone stopps crying nerf but we all know how that wont happen becuase someone will always come up with a exscuse to nerf things....
[/ QUOTE ]
when if you play any class well... you're golden to do so.
or
when if you play any class poorly... you suck and are cannon fodder.
now lets discuss "knowing your role" and the pecking order.
I
imported_Death of Hemp
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I see a lot of posts here about the hell-spawned and completely evil nefarious tamers.
Mages get good damage, no-penalty weapons (do necros or paladins or spell-weavers get these?)
faster casting and faster casting recovery.
Mages are a far more un-balanced template then tamers. Tamers tame cus they have slow connections, or lack time to power-game.
Mages get advantages that no other players get, yet I see no complaints about this template. Im curious as to why this is.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a good addition to a mage but how many people pvm on a mage? Most, use a tamer and even have a second acct so they can use a tamer for pvm. It is a diverse skill for sure but when you say, "overpowered" I think of pvp.
Alex, if this were remotely true, then why is it sooo hard for me to find a mage to fight in the field?! Why are 95% of the people I fight stealth archers/tamers/dexxers....but NOT mages?! There is an unbalance for sure....but no matter how useful or diverse the skill of magery is.....when it comes to pvp it is on the losing end of what is currently unbalanced. Otherwise, we would see them all over the field.
I see a lot of posts here about the hell-spawned and completely evil nefarious tamers.
Mages get good damage, no-penalty weapons (do necros or paladins or spell-weavers get these?)
faster casting and faster casting recovery.
Mages are a far more un-balanced template then tamers. Tamers tame cus they have slow connections, or lack time to power-game.
Mages get advantages that no other players get, yet I see no complaints about this template. Im curious as to why this is.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a good addition to a mage but how many people pvm on a mage? Most, use a tamer and even have a second acct so they can use a tamer for pvm. It is a diverse skill for sure but when you say, "overpowered" I think of pvp.
Alex, if this were remotely true, then why is it sooo hard for me to find a mage to fight in the field?! Why are 95% of the people I fight stealth archers/tamers/dexxers....but NOT mages?! There is an unbalance for sure....but no matter how useful or diverse the skill of magery is.....when it comes to pvp it is on the losing end of what is currently unbalanced. Otherwise, we would see them all over the field.
I
imported_Death of Hemp
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
so how do you determine how well balance everything is?
[/ QUOTE ]
When you see a variety of templates in the field again.
You used to see a diverse selection of templates in the field. Now, when they make a change that people figure will throw the balance off, a lot of people immediatly go change their template to take advantage. We saw this with death strike, nerve strike, and evasion just to name a few.
so how do you determine how well balance everything is?
[/ QUOTE ]
When you see a variety of templates in the field again.
You used to see a diverse selection of templates in the field. Now, when they make a change that people figure will throw the balance off, a lot of people immediatly go change their template to take advantage. We saw this with death strike, nerve strike, and evasion just to name a few.
can we fix ubws bows so they work for all skills?
and on the mage weapon topic....
dexxers are free to use a variety of weapons due to UBWS, so therefore I think it is perfectly fair for mages to get what 2-3 weapons that are -0 mage...
and on the mage weapon topic....
dexxers are free to use a variety of weapons due to UBWS, so therefore I think it is perfectly fair for mages to get what 2-3 weapons that are -0 mage...
C
CorwinWE
Guest
EA figured out a long time ago there's no point introducing a new class or skill without at first making it overpowered. The whole idea is to keep a bunch of players busy switching their template over, and then let them enjoy it for a while before nerfing it. Right about then they introduce some new overpowered templates or skills to keep everyone on the treadmill.
So if you enjoy role playing a hamster on a treadmill in a hotly contested battle of rock-paper-scissors with the other hamsters... UO is the game for you!
So if you enjoy role playing a hamster on a treadmill in a hotly contested battle of rock-paper-scissors with the other hamsters... UO is the game for you!