(Question) Mage duel league and event idea: Can we pull this off?

[Aelfric]

So, I wanted to have a mage duel event, but not just any mage duel event, but a highly regulated mage duel event. There will be rules about what sorts of templates and equipment can be used. There will be event staff who regulate and enforce these aspects. There will be a seeded tournament bracket, and duels to qualify. (So, perhaps, we could start a temporary league to determine each Mage's seed. As an extra idea, we could divide the league into classes of Mage--Necro-mages, scribe-mages, wild cards, etc...--and we could potentially have smaller scale tournaments for each mage-class or even different skill levels. Since, unfortunately, cheating is a concern, we can hopefully weed out the auto-casters in prelims).

I am not sure if this will ever happen, but I wanted to ask everyone to see what they thought about the plausibility of this event as I describe it.

As far as the regulations are concerned, some will concern templates and others will concern equipment.


****Tentative template regulations:

As far as I can tell, there is only need for three rules: 1) No physical, offensive combat skills allowed except for wrestling. (Offensive Physical combat skills include: Swords, Maces, Fencing, Archery, Throwing. N.B. skills like chiv, ninja, etc are still allowed.) 2) No stealing. 3) No pets (but summons are allowed).

****Equipment Regulations:

70's suits. 2/6 casting. Limited supply of reagents and potions (of which the types and amounts are to be determined--the limited amount will help there be a time limit).

All other equipment is forbidden, including fancy spellbooks and mage weapons.

If the template has spellweaving, the level of the focus will also be limited. Not sure to what, but this will be determined in the future.

****"Court" regulations:

This event will be held in a small sized court, perhaps with some small obstacles.


****For the non-mage:

There will be bookies to take bets on individual matches, as well as betting on the overall tournament bracket.

****Prizes:

There will, perhaps, be prizes for the winners of overall tournaments, but I am not really concerned about this aspect. I would just rather people be interested because they love mage duels as much as I do.

****Mage League?:

I really like the idea of having a dueling league everyone can take part in of all skill levels, while also maintaining some sort of official ranking. We could even have a New/Rookie bracket if we have enough people.


Before everyone condemns this event idea, what I would like to know is:


In a perfect world....

Who would be willing and able to be a mage in this event?

Who would be interested in betting?

Who would be interested in spectating?





List of potential duelists (post in this thread or PM if you would like to be included in this list):

Only need 4 more for a decent bracket!

Bo
Rumpy?
Sir Morder (In newbie bracket)
Aelfric
Singularity
HandofDoom
TheGooch
Kelmo
Grace?
Holden Caulfied
Tjalle
Sprago
Kelden

List of Potential Gamblers:

GarthGrey

List of Potential Sponsers:

Bo
GarthGrey
Kat

Photographer:

Luka

 

[Sir Morder]

I would like to participate in the newbie bracket if possible.

 

[Snugybear]

With speeders wtfast and other programs we still know who will win still wont be fair at all

 

[Aelfric]

With speeders wtfast and other programs we still know who will win still wont be fair at all

I am not sure what you mean exactly. Are you saying that the tournament will just be ruined because people will cheat and that's not fair? If so, then I think a lot of people feel the same way you do. But I would like to have it anyway, as long as I can find enough people who are willing to take the risk. I am hoping the cheaters will get exposed in preliminary matches, when we are establishing the rankings.

 

[Rumpy]

Plain Jane 70's suits with no other mods? Man - I haven't played a mage like that since I first went to Siege back 2004ish.

 

[Aelfric]

Plain Jane 70's suits with no other mods? Man - I haven't played a mage like that since I first went to Siege back 2004ish.

I am thinking a little bit more about this, and we might want to add LRC so that people can still use Spellweaving. Otherwise, people with spellweaving can just try and stay up until the other player runs out of regs. Or we could make spellweaving forbidden in the tournament, which I would rather not do. What does everyone else think about this?

 

[Rumpy]

I am thinking a little bit more about this, and we might want to add LRC so that people can still use Spellweaving. Otherwise, people with spellweaving can just try and stay up until the other player runs out of regs. Or we could make spellweaving forbidden in the tournament, which I would rather not do. What does everyone else think about this?

A real mage fight would be wrestle/scribe with mage skills. If you break it into classes, then spellweaver vs spellweaver isnt a problem.

 

[Aelfric]

A real mage fight would be wrestle/scribe with mage skills. If you break it into classes, then spellweaver vs spellweaver isnt a problem.

I would like to have the option to break into classes, and have cross-class fights as well. So, I guess we could handle it this way:

Scribe-mage v. Scribe-mage uses regs, in lieu of time-limit.

Scribe-mage v. spellweaving mage uses LRC with time-limit. The real trouble would be determining what level of focus to allow the SWer to have.

 

[Rumpy]

I would like to have the option to break into classes, and have cross-class fights as well. So, I guess we could handle it this way:

Scribe-mage v. Scribe-mage uses regs, in lieu of time-limit.

Scribe-mage v. spellweaving mage uses LRC with time-limit. The real trouble would be determining what level of focus to allow the SWer to have.

Allow full builds. It takes time to get off those long spells and can be interrupted. Its just like in pure mage duel, you have to time stuff correctly to get a combo off. Getting off a flamestrike (using this as cast time comparison) is rather hard to do.

 

[kelmo]

Good luck. These things usually do not survive the drafting of the "rules".

 

[Aelfric]

Good luck. These things usually do not survive the drafting of the "rules".

You old fuddy duddy. Where'd your optimism go? If you don't want to participate, you could have just said that. Now I have to wait for someone to post something encouraging before the negativity kills the thread.

I really don't see what is so difficult about this. Two mages enter the ring naked, equipment in pouches on the floor, then they fight. If one uses a stupid cheat, so what? We will probably find out and they will be excluded from the league. It's about making something happen rather than all the nay-saying and brooding.

 

[kelmo]

*chuckles* I am actually hoping to compete on the minor league level and see where that goes.

 

[Aelfric]

Consider yourself in the league!

 

[HoldenCaulfield]

If Nox/Mage is permissible, count me in. (Rookie)

 

[kelmo]

See? Exactly this! Let some of us explore and experiment with templates we have read about/thought about, and always wanted to try!

 

[Bo Bo]

here is what the bo thinks, if that counts for anything.
any mage template you can think of is acceptable. you have limited player base, putting rules on only certain temps vs temps will greatly decrease your numbers.
Bo would however outlaw a few things, summons, tames, would put a limit on pots (and only allow certain pots, doing this would really strengthen poisoning tho). Bo would not allowed poisoning with weapons.
Suits allow anything craftable, if it doesnt have a makers mark on it. than it isnt allowed to be equipped, exception would be for the talisman, and only allow mana orbs and totem of void.
Only 1 blessed item per person, that would be there siege blessed item, no other blessed items, cept clothing blessed deeded items Bo has to look good while kickin ass.
Nothing precasted, this would include spellweavin spells (no spell focus), magic reflect, no buffs allowed at all. This would start everyone on an equal foot.

Sign the Bo up for this one. as long as bo could make it. and bo will also put up some prizes.

 

[GarthGrey]

I suck as a mage, and have no intentions of tarnishing my 0-0 record, but I'll absolutely watch this, and am willing to donate checks and prizes as well, it's all just collecting dust anyway...my money's on Rumpy though.

 

[Aelfric]

here is what the bo thinks, if that counts for anything.
any mage template you can think of is acceptable. you have limited player base, putting rules on only certain temps vs temps will greatly decrease your numbers.
Bo would however outlaw a few things, summons, tames, would put a limit on pots (and only allow certain pots, doing this would really strengthen poisoning tho). Bo would not allowed poisoning with weapons.
Suits allow anything craftable, if it doesnt have a makers mark on it. than it isnt allowed to be equipped, exception would be for the talisman, and only allow mana orbs and totem of void.
Only 1 blessed item per person, that would be there siege blessed item, no other blessed items, cept clothing blessed deeded items Bo has to look good while kickin ass.
Nothing precasted, this would include spellweavin spells (no spell focus), magic reflect, no buffs allowed at all. This would start everyone on an equal foot.

Sign the Bo up for this one. as long as bo could make it. and bo will also put up some prizes.

I think these are all good suggestions. I would like to have no weapons used, however, and have the items be equal for everyone.

What I was picturing was this: The players enter the court naked, with two pouches locked down containing their identical suits, regs, pots, etc. They equip their suits, and then the referee casts wall of stone, and we know how it goes from here....

These aspects of the league don't have to be finalized yet, and can change as we move forward. But I would like to keep things as limited as possible starting out.

 

[HoldenCaulfield]

Just curious why the existing arenas always seem to be ignored as places for these type of events. Is there a glaring flaw with them? To me it seems great with the pt system/ranking and ability to also do more than just 1 vs 1 with no outside interference already built in.

Anyways was just wondering, I know very little about them.

 

[York_Siege]

PVP events are tricky to pull off. I have not had much success in this matter. I ran a joust close to a year ago and tried to follow it up with a mage battle, but ... problems and problem players made this more trouble than it was worth.
The joust was set up to be as fair as possible. ( I provided the venue, armor and weapons) Players weren't interested without the advantages they were accustom to but it did work out for the ones that stayed. I'm not even going to bring up the battle house disaster.... which has soured me on the concept of the pvp event...
I think you will have better luck with getting these to go right than myself. I would be willing to help out if i can.

 

[Aelfric]

Just curious why the existing arenas always seem to be ignored as places for these type of events. Is there a glaring flaw with them? To me it seems great with the pt system/ranking and ability to also do more than just 1 vs 1 with no outside interference already built in.

Anyways was just wondering, I know very little about them.

I was thinking it would be nice to have a rotating venue, if at all possible. But that would require cooperation of the house owners.

I also was thinking of having lines on the ground instead of boundaries. Kind of like a sumo ring, so that if you accidently step out of bounds you lose the match. But, this is probably only good in theory and less in practice.



Also, I realize it will probably be difficult to set up one mass event for everyone to attend (Although I hope this happens eventually). Instead, for the meantime, I thought we could just organize short, easy to manage matches with little to no spectators just to establish the rankings.

People might lose interest overtime, but if I can maintain rankings then I think this will at least keep people somewhat invested.

 

[Kat]

If this ever comes to fruition, I will be happy to put up some prize money as well.

Also suggest Wrong Arena for the venue. I'd like to be able to watch from the outside.

 

[Aelfric]

PVP events are tricky to pull off. I have not had much success in this matter. I ran a joust close to a year ago and tried to follow it up with a mage battle, but ... problems and problem players made this more trouble than it was worth.
The joust was set up to be as fair as possible. ( I provided the venue, armor and weapons) Players weren't interested without the advantages they were accustom to but it did work out for the ones that stayed. I'm not even going to bring up the battle house disaster.... which has soured me on the concept of the pvp event...
I think you will have better luck with getting these to go right than myself. I would be willing to help out if i can.

Well, I want to maintain the freedom for things to go awry, as in accord with all siege events. People can come naked if they are worried they will die. Ideally, the items used for the duels will be locked down and not worth looting anyway.

I was hoping to hire "a security team" that will do their best to quell any disturbances. It will probably be a big mess sometimes, but those are usually just as fun as when the events go off without a hitch.

 

[Tjalle]

*signs up for the rookie league*

*dusts off the Mind blast spell*

 

[Sprago]

I think these are all good suggestions. I would like to have no weapons used, however, and have the items be equal for everyone.

What I was picturing was this: The players enter the court naked, with two pouches locked down containing their identical suits, regs, pots, etc. They equip their suits, and then the referee casts wall of stone, and we know how it goes from here....

These aspects of the league don't have to be finalized yet, and can change as we move forward. But I would like to keep things as limited as possible starting out.

i understand you dont want weps but if a mage uses a mage wep in place of wrestling they kinda need that wep or the wrestler will continuously disrupted them and i think LRC is a must not against the limit on pots or apples

also i think i would be interested if the timing permits me to do so

do we need to register a template we are planning to use and if we are i would perfer people do that privately so one person doesnt set up just to counter anothers

one last thing why not use the arena's that we have in our shard like the one in Occollo or the one in the lost lands it worked well for the last time i was in a spur of the moment event similar to this im sure BO remembers that time in the lost lands arena we had a blast spectators can watch too

 

[Aelfric]

Alright! Now we are only 4 duelists away from a decent bracket!

i understand you dont want weps but if a mage uses a mage wep in place of wrestling they kinda need that wep or the wrestler will continuously disrupted them and i think LRC is a must not against the limit on pots or apples

also i think i would be interested if the timing permits me to do so

do we need to register a template we are planning to use and if we are i would perfer people do that privately so one person doesnt set up just to counter anothers

one last thing why not use the arena's that we have in our shard like the one in Occollo or the one in the lost lands it worked well for the last time i was in a spur of the moment event similar to this im sure BO remembers that time in the lost lands arena we had a blast spectators can watch too

I was hoping it would be possible for all mages to use either wrestling or anat + eval. But, you and Bo are probably right to suggest that we should allow mage weapons. The only reason I want to avoid this, is that it might make some of the victories item based if one mage weapon really outshines another. This sort of potential imbalance may be impossible to avoid, but I'd like to try as much as possible. We can probably work something out if it becomes a problem later on.


As for your suggestions regarding the location, these are both good ideas. I am really torn since I want the location to be as public as possible, while still maintaining lockdown control for duel supplies.

 

[Bo Bo]

that is why everything equipped has to be made by someone. this should balance it all out.

 

[Kelden]

I'd be in for it!

 

[Just a Dude]

I would like to participate in the newbie bracket if possible.

what was that... you said in another post about trammel being ....

 

[Kelden]

Used to be some fun duels by the golden unicorn... not too many rules, just a bit of fighting in a confined area.
Was never able to win at those things, and likely still wont be... but it was alot of fun.
Why not have warriors, tamers and crafters join in, if they wish?

Preferably there should be enough people, so that i have a 20 min break between matches

Edit: Oh... and we need VmP and ORC to come raid!

 

[Sir Morder]

what was that... you said in another post about trammel being ....

This sounds like a challenge !!
Challenge accepted...rules? My dexxor vs your patheticness. Sound good? Let me know, otherwise it's trammel --->

 

[Luka Melehan]

If I am home that weekend I would love to be there, spectate and take pictures.

 

[Luka Melehan]

If I am home that weekend I would love to be there, spectate and take pictures.

 

[Zalfein]

Hello,
I tested this setup with the help of Hand of Doom this morning.

Basically, each person stands on a roof (we were the closest possible, didn't test how far we could be). You can cast spells and fields at each other. Summons won't work. If one person move, he/she gets ejected from the building. It could be a setup for a last man standing with no looting possible.

Customs house might work better, it would be easier to cast fields.

Zalfein

 

[Bo Bo]

big giant thumbs down on the last post! part of a mage duels is gettin the interrupts, either with a spell, fists, or a weapon. this would negate a very big part of the duel in bo's eyes. Also moving around is also part of the duel, just a bad idea.

 

[kelmo]

My dexxor vs your patheticness.

Is that a GM beggar title?

 

[Zalfein]

big giant thumbs down on the last post!

Too bad, there's only a "like" button ;-)

While it could be fun for some kind of game/part of an event, I must agree with you that it wouldn't reflect the reality of PvP. I didn't do the experiment for this thread, I was just looking for a place to share the results. My little PvM/protection mind didn't realize how insulting it was.

Zalfein
ps: I guess a staring contest is out of question too...

 

[Aelfric]

FYI, it may take a couple weeks before I can really get the ball rolling on this since I am right in the middle of finals right now.

Too bad, there's only a "like" button ;-)

While it could be fun for some kind of game/part of an event, I must agree with you that it wouldn't reflect the reality of PvP. I didn't do the experiment for this thread, I was just looking for a place to share the results. My little PvM/protection mind didn't realize how insulting it was.

Zalfein
ps: I guess a staring contest is out of question too...

The "two towers" approach may be fun every once in a while, but I have to agree with Bo on this one. Movement is necessary. Somewhere down the line, however, this could be a special type of match. I like it in theory as a once in a while thing.


So far we have 13 people signed up as duelists. I would like the list to keep growing. I would be satisfied with 16.





To Kelden, regarding dexxers, tamers, and the like. Personally, I have nothing against adding in other templates, and having "no rules" duels. But I would like to start limited for the rankings and the tournament and then expand if that first phase is successful.

Generally, I think mage duels are interesting, mixed templates duels are too, but dexxer vs dexxer duels are kind of lame unless they are quick. Not sure what the point is in dueling a tamer unless we make lots of rules to balance it out. (Especially since I am imagining a confined space). Perhaps we could say 3 pet-slots only? or we could make it something like wolves, bears, and arachnids only, plus no stealth. But people might not like that.

 

[Troop]

Looks like this could be a fun event if set up correctly.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I'm not reading anything in this thread but if there is a mage tourny i will do my best to be there

 

[Rumpy]

Just curious why the existing arenas always seem to be ignored as places for these type of events. Is there a glaring flaw with them? To me it seems great with the pt system/ranking and ability to also do more than just 1 vs 1 with no outside interference already built in.

Anyways was just wondering, I know very little about them.

There use to be a dueling arena by Wrong that was always used for touranments. Even had a bank and a stable. The last EM we had before I departed, I pleaded with to see if we could get this restored. Apparently it was lost along with alot of other EM made structures a while back during a patch. It had seating and was the appropriate size for the event.

You cant do any in-house fighting anymore. So perhaps hire people to guard the arena and attendees if there is concern. You can use Jhelom Farms or the BagBall Arena. Also - Didnt the last EM make a dueling house under Bucs Den? I remember working with them to ensure it would not kick people out when fighting. Perhaps PM the EM and ask about using it. Just an idea.

 

[Rumpy]

Generally, I think mage duels are interesting, mixed templates duels are too, but dexxer vs dexxer duels are kind of lame unless they are quick. Not sure what the point is in dueling a tamer unless we make lots of rules to balance it out. (Especially since I am imagining a confined space). Perhaps we could say 3 pet-slots only? or we could make it something like wolves, bears, and arachnids only, plus no stealth. But people might not like that.

Start with Mage duels. If it goes well, expand to dexxer stuff, hybrids, or dex vs dex. As far as tamers, its who can hit the all kill macro first. Perhaps pet duels would be a better option for that.