Lost Features

[Magnus]

UO has been around for a long time, and one would think that we've only gained features and not lost any? But you'd be wrong! One of the aspects that made UO a 'living world' at release were its NPCs. Instead of being pointless filler that they are today, at the beginning you could actually speak with them!

I am assuming that when RENN came out and brought SYSTRAN, they disabled this feature and never turned it on again when they removed it. However, we know that the game still has it due to the Personal Attendant token that is available.

I wonder if it would be possible to restore this functionality @Kyronix?

For fun, here is a excerpt from the Prima Guide at release, telling you all about the feature!

 

[Aran]

Yeah you can thank Localization for taking away 90% of that

 

[Yadd of Legends]

One of the aspects that made UO a 'living world' at release were its NPCs. Instead of being pointless filler that they are today, at the beginning you could actually speak with them!

I wasn't playing UO back then and never knew UO had that feature. I remember that was a key feature that made Ultima 6 fun. Of course that was a plot-driven game, where you were actually looking for useful information to solve mysteries. I suppose some of the quest lines now are sort of like that.

 

[sablestorm]

Another old feature from back in the day was an ecosystem where predators would hunt prey and the prey would consume resources. If there were too few predators around, the prey would consume the local resources making them harder for players to find in the area. If prey was scarce, the predators would turn on players. This was the idea behind it, at any rate, but I get the feeling they had to do away with it to cure the lag issues the servers were experiencing way back when. I think these keywords fell by the wayside about the same time.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Yep, i remember that. You could ask the NPC's the time of day, or give them gifts, or join the NPC Guilds (each char could only be part of 1 NPC guild at a time though) in order to get a discount when buying items or training from them. Being part of the NPC Mages Guild was definitely useful, with the discount on buying regs.

 

[Uvtha]

I remember that. I used to be sure to thank all the npcs I interacted with and say good bye, heh. Can they still tell time? You can still tell them to move I think as well.

 

[Conleth]

I used to like to say hello, or even just walk past; they'd turn in your direction, and possibly even bow to you.
Cheers

 

[Enziet]

I also remember how annoying it was trying to sell things... Vendor Sell..... VENDOR SELL.... DAMN IT... <NAME NPC> SELL!!!!

 

[Ellie]

I remember the beggers. I would give them fish to eat.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Another old feature from back in the day was an ecosystem where predators would hunt prey and the prey would consume resources. If there were too few predators around, the prey would consume the local resources making them harder for players to find in the area. If prey was scarce, the predators would turn on players. This was the idea behind it, at any rate, but I get the feeling they had to do away with it to cure the lag issues the servers were experiencing way back when. I think these keywords fell by the wayside about the same time.

That was turned on for a few days during the beta test...with less than useful results. Since players were killing nearly all prey animals for skill gains and their paltry resources, the predators didn't have any "food" and the system collapsed fairly quickly. A neat idea, just poorly implemented.

I used to like to say hello, or even just walk past; they'd turn in your direction, and possibly even bow to you.

NPCs will still randomly bow to you if you have high enough fame and karma.

 

[Magnus]

I was able to get the old Second Age demo working, which included this feature in a limited subset from what is in the full world, mainly due to you being stuck on the island of Ocllo. The video shows a little bit of talking to the NPC.


Also I found a screenshot from 1997 that shows how interesting this feature would have been if it had continued:

 

[Luc of Legends]

Something I remembered from when I start was you couldn't leave Haven till the young timer was up or you gave up young status. It wasn't a feature but it was removed cause soon young players were everywhere. It was a good and bad thing, in that you could explore the world safely but it got exploited.

 

[Zalan]

Some NPC still talk or maybe one type. I've ridden by the Captain of the Guards. The NPC turned to face my character and said something about the city and thanked me for my deeds. Only happened once. Unless, that's not what you mean.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

If i remember correctly, Richard Garriot (Lord British) is bringing this back in Shroud of the Avatar, where you talk to NPCs using keywords, not menus.
Keyword speech reminds me of this old computer game i used to play in the early 90s. I can't remember the name of it, but you played as King Arthur and were on a quest to find your missing Knights of the Round Table, and it used keyword speech. Anyone else know the game i'm talking about? One of the knights was being held captive by the Black Knight, whom you had to joust, another Knight was frozen inside an ice cave, and you had to answer a flower related question to free him, and it had a Circle of Stones that you had to answer 3 riddles to get past.

Just googled it, and found the name. "Conquests of Camelot: The Search for the Grail". Conquests of Camelot: The Search for the Grail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Riyana]

Some NPC still talk or maybe one type. I've ridden by the Captain of the Guards. The NPC turned to face my character and said something about the city and thanked me for my deeds. Only happened once. Unless, that's not what you mean.

That's newer content from the loyalty system.

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

A lot of events have Keyword triggered NPCs to give you the next clue.

 

[CovenantX]

Speaking of lost features, Why were all the Emotes removed, except *Bow* & *Salute*?

Back in the day on LS (had to be sometime around 99' maybe 2000'-ish) There were people lined up dancing, bowing, all kinds of emotes... you're unable to do such things now.
That should come back... I know you could do all those emotes in the old 3d client (Third Dawn) I'm not sure about KR or EC... There was a third-party program that allowed you to use the same emotes in CC..... Anyway, why were they ever removed in the first place? Faint, Dance, etc, etc.

 

[Luc of Legends]

Speaking of lost features, Why were all the Emotes removed, except *Bow* & *Salute*?

Back in the day on LS (had to be sometime around 99' maybe 2000'-ish) There were people lined up dancing, bowing, all kinds of emotes... you're unable to do such things now.
That should come back... I know you could do all those emotes in the old 3d client (Third Dawn) I'm not sure about KR or EC... There was a third-party program that allowed you to use the same emotes in CC..... Anyway, why were they ever removed in the first place? Faint, Dance, etc, etc.

OMG, I used to faint and move to make it looking I was rolling or put on Tribal paint and do the tribal dance. I love those Emotes.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Speaking of lost features, Why were all the Emotes removed, except *Bow* & *Salute*?

Back in the day on LS (had to be sometime around 99' maybe 2000'-ish) There were people lined up dancing, bowing, all kinds of emotes... you're unable to do such things now.
That should come back... I know you could do all those emotes in the old 3d client (Third Dawn) I'm not sure about KR or EC... There was a third-party program that allowed you to use the same emotes in CC..... Anyway, why were they ever removed in the first place? Faint, Dance, etc, etc.

Those emotes (dances, waving, clapping, etc) only existed in the Third Dawn client an could not be magically replicated in the CC by a 3rd party program as those animations simply don't exist in the CC (faint could, but that's because it was just the death animation).

 

[CovenantX]

Those emotes (dances, waving, clapping, etc) only existed in the Third Dawn client an could not be magically replicated in the CC by a 3rd party program as those animations simply don't exist in the CC (faint could, but that's because it was just the death animation).

They were usable with a third-party program in the CC, they just made no sounds and some of the animations were different.

*Dance*- your character just walked in-place.

The program no longer works, and it hasn't for several years. Why were those animations removed for emotes?

 

[Dot_Warner]

They were usable with a third-party program in the CC, they just made no sounds and some of the animations were different.

*Dance*- your character just walked in-place.

The program no longer works, and it hasn't for several years. Why were those animations removed for emotes?

Then they weren't really available for the CC, now were they? Walking in place isn't the same as the far more flamboyant movements available via emotes on TD.

We were promised more emotes in KR, but then nearly everything stated about that client was a complete farce of lies...

Did you all know that there are face creation elements (art) in both EC and CC? The system was promised, partially created, but never implemented.

 

[CovenantX]

Then they weren't really available for the CC, now were they?

Not without the program, but you could record the program performing the "emotes" with UOAssist allowing you to set a macro, then you could use the emotes without the program.

I never said you could do them with CC without the use of another program. XD but you could infact perform them in the CC.

There were other emotes that weren't in the original 3d client that were in the program as well.. of course none of them work anymore, even if you still have them recorded in UOAssist, it's as if those animations were removed. they weren't though, you're just unable to make your character perform them without doing something that triggers the animations.

Like you said- dying triggers the "faint" animation, a few other things trigger it as well...

These should be things players are able to perform once again though via macro be it in-game or with Pinco's (EC) / UOAssist (CC).

 

[Luc of Legends]

Dot, the face creation is available in EC by talk to the body scupture. Luc in EC is a pirate complete tatoos and an eyepatch. I would love to change my char in CC but it probably wind up looking Mr. Bill or Gumby. Since as of lately the scaling of item is sooo off.

 

[Magnus]

So this would have been a neat feature, I wonder if it ever actually got to the release.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Not without the program, but you could record the program performing the "emotes" with UOAssist allowing you to set a macro, then you could use the emotes without the program.

I never said you could do them with CC without the use of another program. XD but you could infact perform them in the CC.

There were other emotes that weren't in the original 3d client that were in the program as well.. of course none of them work anymore, even if you still have them recorded in UOAssist, it's as if those animations were removed. they weren't though, you're just unable to make your character perform them without doing something that triggers the animations.

Like you said- dying triggers the "faint" animation, a few other things trigger it as well...

These should be things players are able to perform once again though via macro be it in-game or with Pinco's (EC) / UOAssist (CC).

Faint was the death animation repurposed, hence why it was visible in both clients.

But emotes like the "tribal dance," "jig," "clapping," and "waving" had NO animation equivalent in the CC. None. The emotes were one of the things that made the TD client special. A third party program might have been able to send the same commands as TD to initiate the emotes...though they were only fully visible to those using the TD client. Sure, your character might have looked like it was walking in place or doing a combination of bows and salutes in the CC, but in TD these emotes were very animated, sometimes lengthy movements. Those animations have never existed in the CC.

Dot, the face creation is available in EC by talk to the body scupture. Luc in EC is a pirate complete tatoos and an eyepatch. I would love to change my char in CC but it probably wind up looking Mr. Bill or Gumby. Since as of lately the scaling of item is sooo off.

Oh, I don't mean the body sculptor NPCs, those are the bare bones...hideous...celebrity faces. I really do wished more people used them though, since nearly every male paperdoll viewed in the EC looks like Will Ferrell. /wrists

In the art files, there are pieces of faces. Different eyes, noses and mouths that could be pieced together to make a face like most modern games have. The RP faces we have now were just supposed to be the start.

 

[Luc of Legends]

Oh, I don't mean the body sculptor NPCs, those are the bare bones...hideous...celebrity faces. I really do wished more people used them though, since nearly every male paperdoll viewed in the EC looks like Will Ferrell. /wrists

In the art files, there are pieces of faces. Different eyes, noses and mouths that could be pieced together to make a face like most modern games have. The RP faces we have now were just supposed to be the start.

OOOH... I see, that would be cool if I could make my Avatar look the way I wish him to be... and I agree the default EC males do look like Will Ferrell.

 

[BrianFreud]

Oooh colors!

 

[Magnus]

Ralph Koster talks about these early designs about NPCs, its quite an interesting read.

tl;dr - they wanted to create a living breathing world, but the players were lazy and wanted everything static.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Ralph Koster talks about these early designs about NPCs, its quite an interesting read.

tl;dr - they wanted to create a living breathing world, but the players were lazy and wanted everything static.

No, really, the players didn't. All the "living breathing world" ideas were shelved because they were difficult at achieve. If Koster is trying to blame the players for that, then he just lost a lot of credibility. The wold being so static and cookie-cutter has always a complaint about UO.

 

[MalagAste]

No, really, the players didn't. All the "living breathing world" ideas were shelved because they were difficult at achieve. If Koster is trying to blame the players for that, then he just lost a lot of credibility. The wold being so static and cookie-cutter has always a complaint about UO.

Still is... And player cry and moan if you change anything...

People want to deco as a Governor for holidays but some sob is always there to complain that it causes them "lag" or some other BS... which is bull...

People want to add stuff to the towns to make them look nicer and more unique but again with the crying about lag and such.... which I'll tell you right now is just bull.... it doesn't cause that much lag and most anyone who uses a more modern computer than one from 1998 can handle it... unless they are still on dial -up...... which if that's the case then they honestly shouldn't be playing anymore and need to move somewhere or invest in a dish or something.

Anyway... we have been promised a lot over the years but I'm fairly sure that UO has reached it's limit. Without a real team the game is not going to be adding anything really more than perhaps some new art (which they already told us the give a crap about using proper perspective and we can tell they don't care about making it look like it belongs in the world as they continually are adding stuff that just does NOT come close to being in line with the current look and feel of the game).... and that's about it.... everything else is just recolored, repurposed and coded with some parts of code ripped off from things already done before... basically UO is now a Free Shard you pay for. Just my opinion.

 

[Aran]

Just because it doesn't cause you problems doesn't mean it's "bull" that other people are experiencing problems.