Legendary vs Major Artifacts and other loot from T-Chest

[Keven2002]

Hopefully this doesn't spiral out of control with people spewing hate for the release but I did want to comment on how the treasure chest loot seems a bit off balance. I did some additional testing on loot quality from the cache & hoard chests over the past week to focus in more on the number of drops and the actual quality (number of properties vs intensities) of items rather than the shiny new items so that I had some actual data to support my claim.

Here is what I noticed on a somewhat consistent basis:

• Assassin chest seems to give more items (specifically Cache level). Normally I'd see 12 items in cache chests but I'd see 22-24 items in assassin cache chest. This was non-party and the same across rusty/metal/gold chest.
• The chest quality (rusty/metal/gold) does NOT seemingly impact anything. I've pulled up the same profession type chests on cache/hoard level maps and I've experienced it all. I've seen legendary items in rusty chest (junk legendary and decent legendary) and I've seen absolute junk (lots of cursed and nothing worth keeping) in gold chests and vice versa. I've also seen multiple drops (maps/blues/pinks/decor/mysterious frags) in rusty chest and no drops in gold and vice versa.
• Even with GM remove trap; certain level maps take a minimum attempt amount. Supply is 1-3 attempts, cache is 2-5 (2 only happened to me twice), and hoard seems like 5-8. I feel like they made remove trap on treasure chests attempt based (since no skill is required) versus skill based (where each attempt gives you X% chance to successfully remove the trap) which is a bit annoying for those that take their RT to 100.
• The items in a stash/supply are absolute junk. Typically only 8 items (supply chest) and they aren't even worth looking at. It would be one thing if perhaps this is where you would find high intensity low property items (like a clean 10% SSI jewel or 18% SDI or 1/4 jewel or +20 skill) but typically it's like a ring with +5 eval / +5 archery / 10 LRC / 3 STR and it's antique.
• The quality of loot in the chest is a bit of a head scratcher too in terms of Legendary vs Major vs Greater etc. I've pulled out several legendary items that are not nearly as good as a major artifact... My thought is that the lowest legendary item should be no worse than the best major artifact (hence it being legendary). This is not the case though. I pulled these 2 items from the same hoard chest (I think it might have been a metal chest but could have been a rusty one) and the major item is definitely better than the legendary item. I believe this is proven by the insurance amount; assuming insurance is based on item intensity (I think it is right?). The legendary item has an insurance amount of 860gp while the major item has an insurance amount of 962gp. I also don't think it makes sense that the fortified legendary item has a total resist of 95 but the energy resist is at 2 compared to the non fortified major item having a balance 90 total resist (only 5 resist difference for a piece NOT fortified).

vs

@Tina Small - Have you noticed a lot of what I have posted above? Especially about the legendary items vs major items? Anyone else noticing the same thing?

@Kyronix / @Bleak / @Mesanna - Is this above really the intention? My main concern is the intensity of a legendary item (which should be the highest in the game) is falling below the intensity of a non-legendary item. It seems like the overall legendary intensity for treasure chests has been scaled back and this is a perfect example of it.

Please keep this thread constructive and refrain from posting something like "yea this release sucks". I want to keep comments based on actual finds and not on opinions so that maybe we can have this addressed. Thanks.

 

[petemage]

The items in a stash/supply are absolute junk. Typically only 8 items (supply chest) and they aren't even worth looking at. It would be one thing if perhaps this is where you would find high intensity low property items (like a clean 10% SSI jewel or 18% SDI or 1/4 jewel or +20 skill) but typically it's like a ring with +5 eval / +5 archery / 10 LRC / 3 STR and it's antique.

Formerly known as level 1 and level 2 one a scale from 1 to 7. Absolutely zero effort. Literally killing level 1 guardians naked on auto-defend. They were never meant to give any higher end reward. It's like you kill Ettins and asking for clean 18 SDI, 10 SSI, etc.

The new names don't reflect that very well of course.

Don't think there is anything to adress here. Legendary vs. major was never a good metric on judging loot.

 

[Akiho]

Treasure chests used to be my main source of clean +10% SSI jewels with the occasional complimentary stat/skill. After literally 100s of chests in the new system I have seen absolutely zero useable +10% SSI jewels. +5% seems to be way more common now but always come with multiple other useless stats.

That's my biggest observation since the change.

 

[Basara]

Here is what I noticed on a somewhat consistent basis:

• The chest quality (rusty/metal/gold) does NOT seemingly impact anything. I've pulled up the same profession type chests on cache/hoard level maps and I've experienced it all. I've seen legendary items in rusty chest (junk legendary and decent legendary) and I've seen absolute junk (lots of cursed and nothing worth keeping) in gold chests and vice versa. I've also seen multiple drops (maps/blues/pinks/decor/mysterious frags) in rusty chest and no drops in gold and vice versa.

Whereas with Cache chests, I have seen a VERY pronounced difference in loot. Granted, I'm only running 880 luck (+900 with a statue). My multiple drops of Hoard maps have only been in the Assassin cache chests, which might just be a fluke. For Non-Assassin chests, the Cache chests typically are higher quality items in Gold rather than Rusted, with Rusted chests typically only having a lesser artifact ( if that), Iron having a few artifacts, and gold having more artifacts than "magic items". It could be that the effect of your wearing a luck suit is crushing the differences between chests out of existence (which is a good thing for you).

The one "obvious" difference between the chest levels isn't that obvious to those just concerned with the item strength. In the gem/gold bags, the Rusted chests will have X of each gem in them (X=17, in the case of Cache). In Iron Chests, this will be X or X+2 (random, per gem type). In Gold chests, it is X, X+2 or X+4 (17, 19, or 21, random per type). The gold amounts are usually lower as well (anyone else notice that the average amount of gold in a Cache is lower than the average from a Supply?). Again, not something that someone concerned solely with item quality would notice, but one of my accounts has DOUBLED its gold from 4 months ago, just by doing Supply and stash maps for the last 2 weeks (and have only gotten about 20 Cache maps into my pile of 130 of them)

• Even with GM remove trap; certain level maps take a minimum attempt amount. Supply is 1-3 attempts, cache is 2-5 (2 only happened to me twice), and hoard seems like 5-8. I feel like they made remove trap on treasure chests attempt based (since no skill is required) versus skill based (where each attempt gives you X% chance to successfully remove the trap) which is a bit annoying for those that take their RT to 100.

Something must be wrong with how you're doing them. Supply chests stopped having ANY RT spawn for me at 91 or so skill (and stopped having more than one spawn around 80). Cache chests at 92-93 (my current skill is 93.8) are AT WORST one spawn - and NO spawn more often than not. How far are you stepping back from the chest when using RT?

• The items in a stash/supply are absolute junk. Typically only 8 items (supply chest) and they aren't even worth looking at. It would be one thing if perhaps this is where you would find high intensity low property items (like a clean 10% SSI jewel or 18% SDI or 1/4 jewel or +20 skill) but typically it's like a ring with +5 eval / +5 archery / 10 LRC / 3 STR and it's antique.

Again, almost the opposite experience from you. I'm having to unload items after 5-7 Supply (or 4 cache) maps because of all of the stuff that I bring back. I constantly get mid range items with room to improve from those (90+ resists with 25% LRC, for example). Then again, I don't consider Brittle or Prized to be all that bad of a thing, and actually like to give stuff away after I enhance them. You're looking for PERFECT items. I look for "Items that will help build a suit" - which is how I ended up working backwards into a suit for my mage with capped LMC/LRC/FC/FCR/MR/Resists SIX YEARS AGO, without even trying, and with a 0-resist item in the neck slot (and most of those capped, with the same necklace, as early as 2008).

I will agree, though, that most of the jewelry sucks because they tend to always be antique.

And, you're definitely right about the Major Artifacts often being better than the Legendaries.

 

[Great DC]

The prefix/suffix of either Fortified and/or Of defense is showing up everywhere a lot now. I posted about this on the official forums being a issue. Its not just t-maps either, these items on showing up in bulk on different boss encounters too. its wrecking the loot system like a disease and its spreading to all loot.

 

[Abbarosh]

lol DC you on discord will send you the email exchange between Myself and Kyronix

 

[Yadd of Legends]

The items in a stash/supply are absolute junk.

True when you look at the armor and jewelry, which I understand is your point
But not true when you look at the gold and blues - those are very generous, in fact - where else can a lower level player easily rake in a half million an hour?
All in all, this revamp is great for the lower-level thunters, not so great for those hoping for more high-value jewelry and armor

 

[Abbarosh]

True when you look at the armor and jewelry, which I understand is your point
But not true when you look at the gold and blues - those are very generous, in fact - where else can a lower level player easily rake in a half million an hour?
All in all, this revamp is great for the lower-level thunters, not so great for those hoping for more high-value jewelry and armor

I would say Legendaries got nerfed tbh and jewels are non exsistant

 

[Keven2002]

Very productive stuff so far all!

@Basara - Loads of good info on your reply alone! What shard do you play? I'm wondering if you play ATL if I could tag along because I must be doing something wrong if I'm failing multiple times (at GM RT) on supply maps and up (which generate one ancient guardian per attempt).

How far are you stepping back from the chest when using RT?

I'm usually never further than a space or two away. I precast mass sleep (with RC summoned) so when the guardian spawns I cast it on myself to target anything around me (and to preserve the use RT --> last target macro). I have tried to move further away sometimes to see if that changes anything but never noticed a difference. How far do you stand from the chest? Are you always in front of the lock?

I'm only running 880 luck (+900 with a statue)

Maybe this is where we differ for loot because I'm typically running 2450 luck (3450 with statue) on every chest. I think you are on to something though because when I made my observations I didn't break it down like you did by the amount of gold/gems in the bags or the amount of "magic items" compared to X level "artifact"; I typically look at the mods of the items (not so much the names unless it's legendary) and classify as "keeper" or "trash". You are probably right in that there are more "magic item" level items in the chest (based on chest quality) versus "artifact" level; from my view point the majority of the chest (regardless of chest quality) is "trash" with the exception of one or two items which I've seen in every quality chest. I will take that into account when doing more chests.

anyone else notice that the average amount of gold in a Cache is lower than the average from a Supply?

The gold does seem to be a little lower in the cache for me too but it's kind of all over the place as far as amounts. I've seen almost 60k come from a supply chest (typically artisan) and seen 38k come from a hoard chest (might have been warrior?).

I will agree, though, that most of the jewelry sucks because they tend to always be antique.

And, you're definitely right about the Major Artifacts often being better than the Legendaries.

I would say Legendaries got nerfed tbh and jewels are non exsistant

I was holding out hope that there would be some really great legendaries that would come from doing chests but now that I'm at 100+ chests (granted majority supply/cache) I'm not seeing it. I think the thing that really shook my confidence on legendary items is when I got the major artifact and legendary item in the same chest where the major artifact was better. I certainly leaning towards legendary items being scaled down (for chests at least) in the latest release... I haven't done the roof or scalis or exodus though to compare legendary items from those things to know if just all legendary items were scaled down.

I still maintain that there are more legendary drops in chests now (I've gotten probably around 10-12) but I think the consensus so far is that the quality of these legendary items (and jewelry overall) is actually worse than before. It's definitely a little disappointing. I'll keep doing chests (to get some of the new stuff like ancient weaps etc) for a little longer just to give it a fair chance but if the results remain the same, I'll probably just go back to doing the plunderbeacons to get more cargo.

 

[Basara]

I play Lake Austin. I didn't get my first monster from a cache chest until about my 12th to 15th one (last night, after I posted), then got 1 spawn for half of the next 10. and it seemed to happen as I got closer to 95 RT (and the one chest I actually got 2 spawns from).

I wonder if there's a glitch in the programming math where the spawn chance drops to 0, then goes back up, somewhere in the early 90s? I usually stand right up on the chest, out of habit as much as anything. And, in addition to the occasional issue of a chest on a cliff-side stranding a spawn behind a chest to where you have to range attack it(if you can even get Line of Sight), which has been an issue for as long as maps could be anywhere, on odd occasions an ancient guardian would spawn ON TOP of the chest, where a pet or summons can't auto-attack it, until you get the spawn to follow you or the spawn.

After a bunch more cache maps - most cache chests run 25-40k gold; some have up to 46k. I've had one chest so far that had up to 55k, and one at 49k, but the rest were worse than the typical Supply.

Ironically, some of the "better" jewelry were from a rusted chest - clean 2-3 property stuff with 1-2 properties that work well for a melee character (needing raised to max with imbuing), and 10% SSI. So, those are at least of value for imbuing a suit for a dexxer.

Ironically, I think my TH/Tamer is using an Antique ring that she's had for the better part of 3 years. She just didn't take much damage to it, until the RT monsters. It's a legendary or major with +20 magery, +15 Eval, and +15 in another skill, 100 luck, and a bunch of mage-related things that aren't as useful now as they were before I started lowering Eval to raise RT. Will probably sub in a Katalkotl's ring eventually and change a suit piece to make up for the luck and some of the other stuff lost.

 

[Keven2002]

I play Lake Austin. I didn't get my first monster from a cache chest until about my 12th to 15th one (last night, after I posted), then got 1 spawn for half of the next 10. and it seemed to happen as I got closer to 95 RT (and the one chest I actually got 2 spawns from).

I wonder if there's a glitch in the programming math where the spawn chance drops to 0, then goes back up, somewhere in the early 90s? I usually stand right up on the chest, out of habit as much as anything. And, in addition to the occasional issue of a chest on a cliff-side stranding a spawn behind a chest to where you have to range attack it(if you can even get Line of Sight), which has been an issue for as long as maps could be anywhere, on odd occasions an ancient guardian would spawn ON TOP of the chest, where a pet or summons can't auto-attack it, until you get the spawn to follow you or the spawn.

After a bunch more cache maps - most cache chests run 25-40k gold; some have up to 46k. I've had one chest so far that had up to 55k, and one at 49k, but the rest were worse than the typical Supply.

Ironically, some of the "better" jewelry were from a rusted chest - clean 2-3 property stuff with 1-2 properties that work well for a melee character (needing raised to max with imbuing), and 10% SSI. So, those are at least of value for imbuing a suit for a dexxer.

It's interesting that you started to get more spawn as you increased RT; certainly seems counter-intuitive. I wonder if @Kyronix has explained how RT would work on chests as skill increased (would there be less fails)? I used pinks from 90 to 100 so I can't confirm if I failed less in the 90's than at GM but I do know that now I fail no less than 2 times (spawns 2 ancient guardians) on cache chests (usually it's 3 fails) at GM and I'm standing right next to the chest. I've even tried to locate myself in different places in comparison to the chest and did it without things in my hands and without gloves and none of that helped (still failed 3 times).

I did some more cache maps yesterday and took time to check out if the item was greater / lesser /major / etc. I did get an assortment of rusty/metal/gold chests. I did 8 chests and ironically enough the only legendary I saw (fell inline with what I've been seeing; pretty mediocre intensity) was from a rusty chest. I did notice though that the rusty chests I dug up did seem to have more "lesser magic items" as opposed to metal/gold. I don't think I saw a single "lesser magic item" in the metal/gold chests but all the "greater items" still weren't very good. I also felt like I saw more antique/cursed items in the metal chests I dug up but that could have just been completely random. I also noticed, as @Basara pointed out, that the higher quality chests did in fact typically have more gems/gold on average. There was one or two metal chests that had less than the rusty chests but that could have just been due to profession/RNG.

 

[Basara]

Currently - assassin cache chests are the way to go. They have twice or more the loot they should have, and even the rusty Assassin chests appear to have a higher percentage of artifacts than iron and gold chests from the other professions.