KR, how long should EA get before its declared a failure?

[imported_UOPODCASTING.COM]

I decided to give KR a test run, especially considering I heard it can give you advantages in game that seem ridiculous.

I tried to convert all the macro's I use in UOA over. Then I thought I would then try and PvP with it.

I still haven't gotten the hang of targeting, but thats most likely me. However I did notice that I seemed to run a lot faster and I cast some spells a lot faster.

In fact it was the reason in the PvP thread I thought someone was speed hacking due to the insane speed increase they seemed to have. Well as I discovered KR on a decent PC and connection is like its on roids.

I then went to Shadowlords HQ and just look at how pathetic this is:

After all this time EA still cant get KR to render the game world correctly.

No wonder the speed boost isn't under control when the game client can't even render the game world properly.

With this sort of shoddy programming, who would need exploit tools, EA is most likely providing them in KR due to poor QA and coding practices.

So EA has had how much time to get this piece of crap working and its still as buggy as beta code would be expected?

 

[Guest]

did you appologise?

 

[imported_UOPODCASTING.COM]

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did you appologise?

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Of course not, its the PvP thread

 

[Dean478]

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I decided to give KR a test run, especially considering I heard it can give you advantages in game that seem ridiculous.

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Really? I heard it's a horrible lag monster that should only be used by people for fighting monsters... but then again this probably from the same people that told me I wouldn't die to a pker if I'd use nothign but a halberd, katana or war fork...


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I still haven't gotten the hang of targeting, but thats most likely me. However I did notice that I seemed to run a lot faster and I cast some spells a lot faster.

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The game is tricky at first. It's using a modern interface that is nothing like the original UO UI.

The apparent speed is the lack of "ticking" from the 2D client. You'll probably find you'll do quite a few "you must wait a moment"'s while you get used to the new rhythm.

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I then went to Shadowlords HQ and just look at how pathetic this is:


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Never had this issue before, not even in beta.

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So EA has had how much time to get this piece of crap working and its still as buggy as beta code would be expected?

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You're jumping to such conclusions after such a brief test and a very small issue? It's no wonder Kingdom Reborn is still trying to accomplish what Third Dawn tried all those years ago... there are still too many stubborn players who just won't evolve. Seems Newton's First Law of Motion applies to everything but the attitudes of UO players...

 

[imported_UOPODCASTING.COM]

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You're jumping to such conclusions after such a brief test and a very small issue? It's no wonder Kingdom Reborn is still trying to accomplish what Third Dawn tried all those years ago... there are still too many stubborn players who just won't evolve. Seems Newton's First Law of Motion applies to everything but the attitudes of UO players...

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Actually if you read back through the forums this isn't my first test. This is the first one in a couple months.

Being a software developer by trade I find it offensive to release code that has clearly been poorly QA'd and pass it off as a production ready product.

If I was able to have my account fees suspended while I beta test the product for EA, then it might have some success. But when I'm paying to play and my time is short in supply then I am not going to be a none paid tester.

 

[Dean478]

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You're jumping to such conclusions after such a brief test and a very small issue? It's no wonder Kingdom Reborn is still trying to accomplish what Third Dawn tried all those years ago... there are still too many stubborn players who just won't evolve. Seems Newton's First Law of Motion applies to everything but the attitudes of UO players...

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Actually if you read back through the forums this isn't my first test. This is the first one in a couple months.

Being a software developer by trade I find it offensive to release code that has clearly been poorly QA'd and pass it off as a production ready product.

If I was able to have my account fees suspended while I beta test the product for EA, then it might have some success. But when I'm paying to play and my time is short in supply then I am not going to be a none paid tester.

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Okay that's fair enough (didn't know about the previous tests).

 

[Guest]

Still it depends on how many tests and for how long, if you are actually running it the most efficient way and of course what game play you are into plus of course how you have your graphics, bindings, macros, and other interface settings arranged etc, etc..

For crafting, mining, fishing, any sort of item organising, pvm, heartwood quests and filling any kind of bod is way easier in KR. Select make max and fill a potion keg with one click of the button, select make 60 dresses and fill 6 x 10 quantity bods. I don't pvp, but a few on the KR forum have now said they wouldn't use anything but KR since they have become accustomed to the targeting, so I guess it is based more on time spent and your settings etc.

I won't mark runebooks in 2d anymore, nor make or fill any spellbook in 2d, same as all resource gathering is done in KR and for skill training you cannot beat KR.

All of the above depends though on if you play without the use of third party programs, as nothing will compete with some of the 2d + cheat programs will it? If you play with 2d and just uoassist then KR is far superior.

Other than a few of the known bugs, and stuff that still needs fixing, the only thing that I need 2d for is vendor management and that is ONLY because you need to set vendors for 2d view, not because doing it in KR is harder or unable to be done. In fact it is way easier to manage vendors in KR as you don't need to bother with placing 'stuff' so all stuff can be seen or messing about putting in labeled bags etc etc if not for 2d, KR vendors would be so much easier to manage.

Sure some graphics are a bit wonky, but i find some in 2d wonky too, and that client is ten yrs old. Plus what is the odd graphic bork up if you can mine at a million miles an hour, fish up a chest and loot it without problem ten times faster than before, fill bods or heartwood quests simply and easily, build a character suit without the need to constantly have a calculator out adding up your resists and mods. Give me the odd borked graphic any day if the cost is the other stuff.

The first few times I ran the doom gauntlet in KR i thought there is no way I will get used to this, wrong, I did, now I think hmmm , wonder why I found it so hard to start with as my speed is way faster than in 2d, I can set up and switch macros and weapons instantly, and basically it took a few rounds to get used to it, same as peerless. And looting, well, 2d cannot touch KR for that, KR is so far superior in that respect there is no comparison.

Its not saying that KR is perfect, far from it, and yes they stuffed it when they introduced it too early, basically they cursed it from the start because of the poor release of a client that was at best 6-8 mths way to early off when it should have been released. Even with some of the current bugs it could probly be said that it should still be in beta. If these 'known' issues weren't as they are now and were fixed then the dif between 2d and KR is like the dif between a scooter and a harley.

Still I think it does depend on what you 'do' in game as to how efficient or not it is or isn't. For my style of gameplay which is a huge amount of item management, pvm and crafting resource gathering you cannot beat KR imo.

 

[Guest]

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You're jumping to such conclusions after such a brief test and a very small issue?

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Speed is a pretty important issue when it comes to pvp...

 

[Guest]

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..You're jumping to such conclusions..

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Even though it isn't so in the OP's case, I doubt new players could be held to blame for being turned off after an experience like this. Sure, we expect seasoned UO players to persist and persevere with a beta-quality product, but that's because we're conditioned by years of shoddy patches &amp; publishes. It's just business as usual. As a former game developer (graphics in my case) I'm pretty well turned off by a lot of the code, too, as well as some of the hatchet-job graphics.

Players migrating from other mmorpg's, or total newbies to live-programmed games, wouldn't be so forgiving. In this regard, the finish quality and the attraction for new players, I'd regard KR as an abject failure. The fact that people have adopted the new client says far more about the constitution of players rather than the quality of the product.

I've only ever been hopeful for KR, just frustrating to see it implemented so poorly.

On a personal note: as a road-less-traveled type of player, most of the issues I come across in KR certainly aren't going to be fixed as a priority. Sorta leaves alternative playstylers out in the cold for quite a time to come.

 

[Guest]

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Even though it isn't so in the OP's case, I doubt new players could be held to blame for being turned off after an experience like this. Sure, we expect seasoned UO players to persist and persevere with a beta-quality product, but that's because we're conditioned by years of shoddy patches &amp; publishes. It's just business as usual. As a former game developer (graphics in my case) I'm pretty well turned off by a lot of the code, too, as well as some of the hatchet-job graphics.

Players migrating from other mmorpg's, or total newbies to live-programmed games, wouldn't be so forgiving. In this regard, the finish quality and the attraction for new players, I'd regard KR as an abject failure. The fact that people have adopted the new client says far more about the constitution of players rather than the quality of the product.

I've only ever been hopeful for KR, just frustrating to see it implemented so poorly.

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Have to agree with most of that, it is ea's fault whether KR goes forward or fails. But from my perspective the UI in comparison to the 2d client is still more efficient to play in and the scope for it is so much better. 2d as it stands now, especially with its reliance on uoassist and uoam (now not updated) was and is dying, KR could have been the fix for this but they stuffed it in the way they handled it. It was like they rushed it out so quickly when if it had sat in development and testing for a good few months longer before it went out to the initial beta and then was thoroughly beta tested and all 'KNOWN' issues, especially the critical ones on speed, lag, computer compatability etc were actually 'fixed' before open beta and certainly those items still found after that 'fixed' before release it would have made a huge difference.

 

[Lord ToXeN]

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I decided to give KR a test run, especially considering I heard it can give you advantages in game that seem ridiculous.


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First, this is incorrect, the speed advantage that KR gives you is notacble, but I wouldn't call it ridiculous, 2D can easily compete with KR even though it is faster.

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I tried to convert all the macro's I use in UOA over. Then I thought I would then try and PvP with it.

I still haven't gotten the hang of targeting, but thats most likely me. However I did notice that I seemed to run a lot faster and I cast some spells a lot faster.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeh targeting is tricky to get used to, but that comes with time and practice, its hard learning new things especially when you have been doing it another way (2D) for so long.

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In fact it was the reason in the PvP thread I thought someone was speed hacking due to the insane speed increase they seemed to have. Well as I discovered KR on a decent PC and connection is like its on roids.


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Like I said before, BS hacks claims

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I then went to Shadowlords HQ and just look at how pathetic this is:

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Haha it is all you SL swine deserve!

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No wonder the speed boost isn't under control when the game client can't even render the game world properly.


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Make no mistake about this. KR being faster is 100% intentional. It was not always faster, it was a patch that did it. This is EA being crafty me thinks hehe, would also explain the unfixed world art issues with the 2D client

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With this sort of shoddy programming, who would need exploit tools, EA is most likely providing them in KR due to poor QA and coding practices.


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What you talking bout here? The fact that your SL HQ has some issues? Or the speed? Because the SL base is poor work, the speed issue is not.

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So EA has had how much time to get this piece of crap working and its still as buggy as beta code would be expected?

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How so? It works just fine for me....

 

[Lord ToXeN]

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Really? I heard it's a horrible lag monster that should only be used by people for fighting monsters... but then again this probably from the same people that told me I wouldn't die to a pker if I'd use nothign but a halberd, katana or war fork...

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Thats because you have been reading U.Hall to much. Anybody that tells you that KR is slow either has the worst computer in the world and shouldn't even be trying to play it on it, or the just love 2D so much that they want to see KR fail.

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The apparent speed is the lack of "ticking" from the 2D client. You'll probably find you'll do quite a few "you must wait a moment"'s while you get used to the new rhythm.
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It also doesn't look as fast from KR's perspective, the animations are different for running etc makes you 'think' your goin slowish, but when you see someone in KR from 2D's perspective then you see they are running quite quick.

 

[imported_UOPODCASTING.COM]

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I decided to give KR a test run, especially considering I heard it can give you advantages in game that seem ridiculous.


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First, this is incorrect, the speed advantage that KR gives you is notacble, but I wouldn't call it ridiculous, 2D can easily compete with KR even though it is faster.


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Come on sneaky, stop down playing it.

Well Pet made this video showing how fast KR is and Pet has a decent connection as well.

 

[Lord ToXeN]

Yep look at that vid, Pet does not know how to setup a recording program so it doesn't lag his comp, look at the jerky frame rate and compate it to some of my videos. Half of that video is KR being faster, and half of it is Pets video encoder lagging the f out of his computer.

Gtg work now, when I get back will be happy to continue debate

 

[imported_UOPODCASTING.COM]

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But from my perspective the UI in comparison to the 2d client is still more efficient to play in and the scope for it is so much better.

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I couldn't agree more, I really like the KR UI. However a lot of the other mechanics are antiquated and out dated.

Its a shame EA didn't innovate in the mechanics and UI space, instead they followed the path other MMORPG's UI have taken.

I main problem is the client has to fit a 10 year old server architecture and thats what has restricted EA's ability to improve the client. That plus they wanted to maintain backwards compatibility which will always hinder innovation.

 

[imported_UOPODCASTING.COM]

Yeah the video isn't the best, but Corpses Bride being able to nearly run circles around me (and cast spells) when I'm running in a straight line and flat out is all the evidence I need.

 

[Lady-Tor]

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Being a software developer by trade I find it offensive to release code that has clearly been poorly QA'd and pass it off as a production ready product.


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I agree. When it comes to computers im just your average Joe (figurativley speaking). I dont want to have to spend hours and hours trying to figure out how to do somthing, i want to install my game and play, just like i did when i got UO. Im a little forgiving when it comes to the graphics side only cos i dont know any better, but the rest of it...

we'll see.

Ive yet to have a sucessfull try myself.

 

[Guest]

Brings us more to the point that UO2 would have been a far better way to go new engine from the base up

 

[Dean478]

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Brings us more to the point that UO2 would have been a far better way to go new engine from the base up

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No doubt about it.

It's still not too late though. The lore and setting is all there, just make the damn game.

 

[Lord ToXeN]

Dont you just love it when you goto work when your not rostered on! *sigh*

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Brings us more to the point that UO2 would have been a far better way to go new engine from the base up

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KR is a new engine from the base up (as far as UO goes). It uses the Gamebryo engine. I can't remember nor find which engine 2D uses, although I'm sure Wikipedia has it somewhere.

I do agree though that they should make a UO2, and believe that when UO's time has come that they will.

 

[Lord ToXeN]

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Yeah the video isn't the best, but Corpses Bride being able to nearly run circles around me (and cast spells) when I'm running in a straight line and flat out is all the evidence I need.

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KR doesn't give you the ability to cast and run at the same time, you are still bound by the server code of "you are frozen and cannot move yarda yarda" the targeting of spells is faster, but not the time you are required to stop to cast them.

 

[imported_UOPODCASTING.COM]

I wasn't clear, he was able to cast spells knowing that it stops you and still run around me.

I don't say speed hacking lightly to start with, being a developer I have a pretty good understanding of client/server architectures and the influences on what can impact performance.

It was insane and now I have witnessed it myself by loading KR and trying it out.

 

[Guest]

Well in my experience of putting KR on one comp, 2D on the other and running them side by side, KR is faster, but not insanely faster... the difference is noticeable though.

KR aside, Corpse Bride is a nasty char to fight (template wise), he pwns me most of the time, and I don't have issues with his speed.

 

[imported_UOPODCASTING.COM]

Two chars one the same LAN going over the router are not going to be as fast as single character. It wont be a huge difference, but it is a difference.

Yeah the player that plays Corpse Bride is a good PvP anyway, no question there. It was just the insane speed he was doing that shocked me.

 

[Lord ToXeN]

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Two chars one the same LAN going over the router are not going to be as fast as single character. It wont be a huge difference, but it is a difference.


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True, however you would think that this would impact both clients equally, and over a 100Mb/s LAN two UO clients are not going to go even close to lagging it, its far more likely to lag when it gets to the 1.5Mb/s ADSL, but even then I ping under 20 normally, with multiple computers connected.