Just a discussion point

[Manticore]

was thinking the other night, and please give me your take on this. 20-30 years ago, a friend is someone you met face-to-face and depending on the closeness it could be every day or once a week etc.. or conversed via telephone or even written to. Nowadays, you can know someone for years and talk almost on a day-to-day basis and interact so the time spent with that someone is much more than say 20 years ago.

How would you define the differnce in friendship between the two types if any? Is one still considered a "true friend" or both? Would you do things for the real life friend that you would not do for the on-line friend or vice versa?

Personally, there are people I've known here for over a decade, never met in person, but would probably trust more than some of the real life friends.

Thoughts?

For example, I read about memorials on shards that many people in real life would not have gotten the level of respect.

I had an UO game friend, known for nearly a decade, and when his wife passed, i sent him 500 dollars to get him back on his feet and never once met him or his family. I didn't think twice about it. If it was a real life friend, not sure if I would have been as generous.

Just food for thought.

 

[red sky]

Well, mainly what defines an awesome friend is who they are (in terms of personality and actions). So yes, someone you've known over the internet could very well be more trust worthy than most people you know in the "real" world. I've met several people just in this game that are very good people with a high sense of moral. Therefore, you probably aren't too crazy, just a little.

 

[Tom_Builder]

Over the last decade I have made tons of friends in UO, many have left over the years, but I still know one or two that I met during the first week of logging in. These people not only know me better then some of my r/l friends, but sometimes I feel I can be more open with them.

When my father passed away in 2000, I had more emails, and phone calls from people in UO then I did from people I had known for years in r/l. I had one person even send flowers to my mother. This is someone I have never met face to face. Someone who I just happen to met in an online game.

IMO I think the people in UO are some of the best people in the world, and yes I trust some of you more then I would trust my r/l friends.

Speaking of r/l friends:
Joanna (if you read this) I want my $2000 back that I loaned you 4 years ago.

Tom

 

[Tangled Metal]

As I am leaving UO this month this really kind of hits home for me. I have known many people in UO for over 12 years now. And yes, I am closer to some of them than I am my RL friends. There are people I would trust to give my RL house keys to in UO!

I have only met a very few of my UO friends in RL. And that was back when Origin was based in Austin and there was weekly gatherings with the Devs and players. That was a long time ago.

What defines a friend to me is someone who is there to help you out when you are in need, pat you on the back when you accomplish something and just be there for you when you need it. I hope that I have been a friend to some of you, I know some of you have truly been a friend to me.

A friend is a friend and it does not matter how you become friends or how you stay friends.

 

[Charbear]

My 2 cents - you are depressing me!

So... I started on GL then Napa became a shard. Several real life friends (including BF) moved over to Napa. Within a month of playing, I met this guy - Reaper. I ran up to him in the woods in GM tailored CLOTHES (Yes, you all remember when you didn't have to wear armor) and he saw the words "In Por Ylem". He said something like "Please don't kill me" and we started talking. I sent him a text after the recent Town Hall with the pirate information and was disappointed that he will not be returning to the game. I used to have so much fun taking death shots of him (i.e. luring a mongbat into the screen after he died and asking, "Did you die from that mongbat?" right as I print screen). LOL! To this day, I have all the death shots I took of him and occasionally remind him via e-mail or text to his cell. Point being... he lives more than half a country away, we have never met and I consider him one of my closest friends. We lose touch here and there but always connect again.

During this time, I also met a nice girl - Shera. Her and I became great friends (playing with her uncle and "UO" BF). I thought very highly of her... so highly I was trying to connect her with my younger brother (in the 'Armed Forces') at the time she was going away to boot camp. I am very overprotective of my younger siblings so know this girl had really made an impression on me. Yes, we lost touch when she went into the 'Armed Forces' but I still think about her and wish we could connect on some level.

There are a handful of others I spoke to for years but lost touch with due to real life problems. I still have their e-mails and icqs just in case. I think of them often (i.e. Pultzer, Kal).

The funny thing is reading posts by the same people over and over, coming to know them on some sort of level by reputation alone. Doesn't matter if I speak to any of you, I know all I need to know by your posts. Does this make sense? It is the type of "community" that is UO I guess.

A friend is a friend is a friend. Location, face-to-face... nothing matters but trust. If you have trust, he/she is a friend.

 

[Fraggles]

For me i take friendships in uo to heart. i am a stay at home mom so i do spend a good amount of time online and on many days i talk to my Uo friends more then i talk to my husband. Many of my uo friends i have known for many years and some just a few months but i consider them friends. these friends have helped me threw hard rl times when my young son was in the hospital and honestly i got more support from them then i did my own mother and that ment alot to me even though i have never met any of them in real life. i have done things for my uo friends in Rl to help them out and i know that if i need help they will be there. I recently have a uo friend pass away and even though i had never met her in Rl i felt as though i had lost a true friend and i still mourn her death. We as a guild supported her surviving spouse as much as we could online and one guildmember even called and talked to him. we also sent flowers to the funeral. I love my uo friends and in many ways i think they are better then most rl friends. even though we have never met i feel i know there persenalitys just from talking with them. Thats my 2 cents

 

[Taylor]

"For each person, whatever existence or that for the sake of which he chooses to live is, that is what he wishes to do with his friends. Hence some friends drink together and some play dice, while others do gymnastics and go hunting, or study philosophy, each spending their days together engaged in whatever they love most in life. For since they wish to live with their friends, they do those actions and share in those things that they suppose make for living together."--Aristotle

Plato and Aristotle believe that "living together" is essential to developing true friendships. Based on the quotation above, it appears that Aristotle defines "living together" as two people companioning over "whatever they love most in life." This would imply that the very best friendships could not be forged through the use of instant messaging, email, phone calls, or other mediums that are based solely on discourse. You are talking, but you aren't doing life together. However, I would argue that MMOs create something of a bridge through the use of avatars, virtual worlds, quests, events, etc. In light of these unique facets of MMOs, playing UO together seems to qualify as "living together," from my perspective.

In short, I believe that real friendships can be developed within MMOs.

 

[BlissMarie]

Manticore,

I was going to post this to your thread, but I don't know how long it would take me to refine it to the point that I would be willing to post it for a lot of people to read. I kept getting off track while composing it. There are so many things I wanted to say. Anyway, I'll quit for now and just send it to you, as is, via icq.

I just remembered sometimes ICQ doesn't keep it's history, and your icq shows you as being away, so I'll go ahead and post it here, in your thread. (Pardon any mistakes, please, anyone who reads this. =)

Some of the things people don't have to deal with online, such as sights, scents and real money, seem to allow most people to more easily accept others. Things that cause us to dislike people in the real world due to our prejudices, biases and general stupidity, etc. don't even enter into most relationships online.

Things I have mentioned are the kinds of things that keep us from making friends in the real word, many times. Sadly, many people wouldn't even give someone who didn't appear to be up to their standards a nod of acknowledgment, much less a smile and a quick hello. These same people can become good friends online, because we focus on things that really matter, such as integrity and general personality.

Twenty or thirty years ago things were way different than they are today. There was no internet, at least not for non-scientific people. We -had- to communicate face to face, on the phone or by sending notes and letters. Today we can get on the computer and meet people from all over the world. The internet helps us set differences aside.

I do think it is possible to not come to know important things about a person, in an online friendship. As a rule, given time, you can get to know most of the really important things, but not necessarily all of them. Online friendships tend to be based on different things than a lot of real life friendships are. Some people would 'confess' their negative characteristics. Others would not. Not everyone is that open or honest.

Some people are deceptive, conniving and dishonest. That is how they are made and they guard themselves carefully, so as not to expose those negative aspects of their character to others. Their every step is guarded. Those kinds of people are potentially dangerous, but often a trusting person wouldn't know it until it was too late. People who aren't thieves don't think like thieves. People who are not physically violent, don't expect someone to be violent toward them, unless they encountered some bad experiences along their path in life. Child molesters don't tell their friends that is something they do. I think it would be very easy for someone to hide alcoholism or drug addiction in an online friendship, even for a period of many years. These things should always be kept in the back of the mind somewhere. Especially if people decide to meet in real life.

I think online friendships and real life friendships are both valid. Both are true friendships. An online friendship is is every bit as real as an offline one. There is something really special about being able to have coffee together (or whatever you and your friend drink), break bread together or share a meal with a friend. Who knows, maybe more of that will happen in the future. Perhaps online friendships are more like friendships are really supposed to be. Perhaps they are born mainly from what all of our friendships should be.

The fact that you gave your online friend some money tells me a lot about your character. Positive things. Whether you took time to think the whole situation through or not, some part of you recognized that he was experiencing something traumatic. Not only does money make people feel better (just because money can be fun stuff!), but when there is a tragedy or emergency situation, expenses are incurred, so money is something most anyone going through a difficult situation could use more of.

There is more to say, but I have schoolwork I need to do.

BlissMarie

 

[BlissMarie]

Plato and Aristotle believe that "living together" is essential to developing true friendships. Based on the quotation above, it appears that Aristotle defines "living together" as two people companioning over "whatever they love most in life." This would imply that the very best friendships could not be forged through the use of instant messaging, email, phone calls, or other mediums that are based solely on discourse. You are talking, but you aren't doing life together. However, I would argue that MMOs create something of a bridge through the use of avatars, virtual worlds, quests, events, etc. In light of these unique facets of MMOs, playing UO together seems to qualify as "living together," from my perspective.

In short, I believe that real friendships can be developed within MMOs.

Yeah, Plato and Aristotle didn't have the internet.

One of those guys would have probably had the philosophychat.com domain. That would have made for some interesting evenings.

I think anyone who has been online long enough to develop a deep friendship would be difficult to convince that is wasn't real.


BlissMarie

 

[Taylor]

That's why they have me to apply their theories to modernity.

I was saying that their understanding of friendship still stands, considering the virtual interaction of avatars in an online gaming-type setting. I don't think that they are incorrect, nor do I think that they would disagree with the sentiment expressed by the OP.