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Gowron
Guest
I think a very simple thing to do for the Anti-Virtue dungeons would be to either add trammel ruleset champ spawns and/or a peerless boss.
Also, add trammel ruleset champ spawns in T2A as well as champ spawns/peerless in the T2A dungeons and spawn areas such as Cyclops/Titan Valley and the Oasis.
Also, add trammel ruleset champ spawns in T2A as well as champ spawns/peerless in the T2A dungeons and spawn areas such as Cyclops/Titan Valley and the Oasis.
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Fink
Guest
Trammel always seemed rather redundant to me even when there was a need for more land, and especially now that we have another 4 Tram-rule facets. Merging Trammel and Felucca back to one Fel-rule facet would be a very unpopular move, though, considering individual shard history and so forth.
Malas certainly needs overland spawn, although hardly anyone walks anywhere so I'm not sure there's much point to random encounters. More feature-based content would be good. The seas are begging to be enriched.
Malas certainly needs overland spawn, although hardly anyone walks anywhere so I'm not sure there's much point to random encounters. More feature-based content would be good. The seas are begging to be enriched.
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
It's a simple equation...
X (where X equals the lands in which the latest uber items are gotten) > Y (where Y equals anything that came before the latest uber items).
As long as X>Y then the old lands will remain empty, unless the old lands become X.
X (where X equals the lands in which the latest uber items are gotten) > Y (where Y equals anything that came before the latest uber items).
As long as X>Y then the old lands will remain empty, unless the old lands become X.
...
I don't think it's "uber" items as much as "interesting" or "useful" items. For example, if a given monster type... oh, say simply because it's what I was fighting a bit earlier tonight, Ratmen.
If I have the choice of Point A to fight Ratmen and they have the Basic Loot Table vs fighting Ratmen at Point B where they have the Basic Loot Table + New Useful Loot™, then more often than not, I'm going to Point B instead of Point A.
Or if there are quests that are enjoyable that take me to one place but not the other.
T2A USED to be interesting when monster fighting for the basic loot tables was the norm. In Fel, theyt keep T2A interesting by adding in Khaldun (ok, we won't go there) and Champ Spawns.
In Ilshenar, the Champ Spawns lost their luster for a while when Fel CSs dropped power scrolls, but the facet had a HUGE shot in the arm later on with Paragons and new CS rewards.
Tokuno has the occasional ToT event.
Malas has... well, Luna... but like Khaldun, we won't speak of that.
Even the Legacy Anti-Virtue dungeons got a decent bump with Virtue armor and Anniversary drops, which are useful even now (either as equipment or as unravels for imbuing).
Tram T2A has... umm... well... not much really. It's full of pathways and nooks and crannies that could hold all kinds of cool things to find, it has a constant war between two races that could be used for questing and the loyalty (ally) system if they wanted to develop it.
Of all of the currently existing lands, Tram T2A needs the most attention... doesn;t have to be "uber" drops... just interesting drops, interesting quests, in short a REASON to go there.
I don't think it's "uber" items as much as "interesting" or "useful" items. For example, if a given monster type... oh, say simply because it's what I was fighting a bit earlier tonight, Ratmen.
If I have the choice of Point A to fight Ratmen and they have the Basic Loot Table vs fighting Ratmen at Point B where they have the Basic Loot Table + New Useful Loot™, then more often than not, I'm going to Point B instead of Point A.
Or if there are quests that are enjoyable that take me to one place but not the other.
T2A USED to be interesting when monster fighting for the basic loot tables was the norm. In Fel, theyt keep T2A interesting by adding in Khaldun (ok, we won't go there) and Champ Spawns.
In Ilshenar, the Champ Spawns lost their luster for a while when Fel CSs dropped power scrolls, but the facet had a HUGE shot in the arm later on with Paragons and new CS rewards.
Tokuno has the occasional ToT event.
Malas has... well, Luna... but like Khaldun, we won't speak of that.
Even the Legacy Anti-Virtue dungeons got a decent bump with Virtue armor and Anniversary drops, which are useful even now (either as equipment or as unravels for imbuing).
Tram T2A has... umm... well... not much really. It's full of pathways and nooks and crannies that could hold all kinds of cool things to find, it has a constant war between two races that could be used for questing and the loyalty (ally) system if they wanted to develop it.
Of all of the currently existing lands, Tram T2A needs the most attention... doesn;t have to be "uber" drops... just interesting drops, interesting quests, in short a REASON to go there.
Yes, exactly! I go to Abyss lately since it has a newer loot table and chance for the needed imbuing ingredients (and arties). Why bother with Britannian soil?
What's the story with Khaldun? I don't know.
Which keeps it interesting. And I do like the fan dancer dojo for the succabus and balron.
Exactly. That's the one reason I would push myself to go there since I have the chance for those drops. I'd rather go there than the fandancer dojo, for example, even tho I like the dojo. Unfortunately, the Anti-Virtue dungeons have become rather boring. An occasional goblin hunting party running through would shake things up. Would require AI?
I would love this loyalty system. Pick a side and get a reward for one, and a penalty for the other. Solen queen touched on it, but it's so lacking.
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
Pick whichever phrase you would like...but it comes down to this:
People go where the items are. If you don't have (new/uber/shiny/useful/interesting/valuable/desirable/rare/neat/nifty/gee whiz/good/better/fantastic/impressive/wonderful/etc) items, people won't go there anymore.
This pretty much sums it up. We need useful loot on monsters, not uber loot.
Trammel T2A really has nothing.....
Crazy idea...how about merge trammel T2A and fel T2A? This would be an easy fix. Perhaps not the best.
But yes, excellent post!
...
Merging Tram and Fel T2A is simply the same as getting rid of Tram T2A really... I don;t see them changing Fel T2A to satisfy the Trammel ruleset.
I think the better option would be to actually DEVELOP the T2A areas. The difference in content between the Fel and Tram facets would make them significantly different experiences.
Maybe even work with the "camp" aspect (ratmen, lixardmen, orcs, gypsies, evil mages, brigand, etc) to put them in more of the out of the way areas with the new loot for people to seek out.
LOTS of possibilities. Tram T2A is the "blankest" of slates in the current content system of UO.
And Morgana, I agree with what you say about the items (though I read "uber" as meaning "the obviously most powerful"), but I would also add that people will also go for the EXPERIENCE of the area as well. Make use of the Terathan/Ophidian wars to give players a more active role instead of simply farming anything that moves and I'll bet you'll see people there again even with current loot tables.
Merging Tram and Fel T2A is simply the same as getting rid of Tram T2A really... I don;t see them changing Fel T2A to satisfy the Trammel ruleset.
I think the better option would be to actually DEVELOP the T2A areas. The difference in content between the Fel and Tram facets would make them significantly different experiences.
Maybe even work with the "camp" aspect (ratmen, lixardmen, orcs, gypsies, evil mages, brigand, etc) to put them in more of the out of the way areas with the new loot for people to seek out.
LOTS of possibilities. Tram T2A is the "blankest" of slates in the current content system of UO.
And Morgana, I agree with what you say about the items (though I read "uber" as meaning "the obviously most powerful"), but I would also add that people will also go for the EXPERIENCE of the area as well. Make use of the Terathan/Ophidian wars to give players a more active role instead of simply farming anything that moves and I'll bet you'll see people there again even with current loot tables.
single player areas would be really interesting. you could even do it like a looong quest, once you kill a monster in the area they don't respawn, once you "beat" it you get a reward and a new one opens.
of course that would cause some major issues cause a theif is screwed, while a tamer pwns... maybe have a few that are tailored to different chars? I dunno, but cool idea
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Trevelyan
Guest
UO is Multiplayer. If I want a single player game, ill buy a 360 game.
Less quests, more social interaction. And yes, theres plenty of lands in UO now - many shards have huuuuuge spaces that aren't occupied by housing. That means there is too much land!
I think focusing on the original Britannian lands, skills, AI etc is far more important. And most of all, getting a real new player experience in there. Ideally one that has already been used before!
- Make NPCs useful again (buying and selling items to and from them)
- Improve AI
- Finish and fix already started systems (virtues, item ID etc)
- Make ALL skills useful again (taste and item ID, forensic eval etc)
- Make a new player experience one that makes sense to new players and explains the game fully
I feel that there is so much that needs to be worked on that there is no justification to continue developing new lands and clients. I would much prefer what is already in existence to be worked on and bring back some of what made UO great before. This may bring back old players, new players and would likely keep current players happy.
Less quests, more social interaction. And yes, theres plenty of lands in UO now - many shards have huuuuuge spaces that aren't occupied by housing. That means there is too much land!
I think focusing on the original Britannian lands, skills, AI etc is far more important. And most of all, getting a real new player experience in there. Ideally one that has already been used before!
- Make NPCs useful again (buying and selling items to and from them)
- Improve AI
- Finish and fix already started systems (virtues, item ID etc)
- Make ALL skills useful again (taste and item ID, forensic eval etc)
- Make a new player experience one that makes sense to new players and explains the game fully
I feel that there is so much that needs to be worked on that there is no justification to continue developing new lands and clients. I would much prefer what is already in existence to be worked on and bring back some of what made UO great before. This may bring back old players, new players and would likely keep current players happy.
I think this should have been KR, you know "Kingdom REBORN."
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
No one really plays for the "experience" anymore (I assume you mean actual life experience vs. skill gain). They play to collect garbage items and hope to be richer than the person next to them.
This game was once something special...
Some still do play for the experience though. Granted most play for pixels...but don't count out those who do it for the experience. They still existNo one really plays for the "experience" anymore (I assume you mean actual life experience vs. skill gain). They play to collect garbage items and hope to be richer than the person next to them.
This game was once something special...
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Trebr Drab
Guest
Here here!
I read a post by Sunsword on Raph Koster's blog, where he said that they were changing UO. He obviously felt that it was for the better. But the point seems to have been changing UO, away from what was so great about it and to something much too like other games. Games we players don't want more of. They wanted to take UO through a "rebirth". Bad idea, when more and more gamers are becoming more and more vocal that they want "different" and "more". And when they hear about what UO was like they say "That's what I want!".
Damn, Devs and Bean Counters, look around. Players want "more", as in more in their games, not "more of the same". UO could give them that. And if you used your heads, you could gradually shift UO into a full 3D game. I mean, once you get everyone playing a 3D version that's locked with an over the shoulder view, would it not be possible to then shift to full 3D with camera angles? But you have to stop wasting time, effort, and money on all these losing ideas. Think long term. Stop creating things that have a shelf life, things that require constant "new content" to keep it going. Start making systems that will work forever. Get away from the idea of constantly building and rebuilding characters, and give us a world that lives and breaths.
...
It's be nice if they could "get everyone playing a 3d version", but it will never happen. Too many people, especially many who post on this site are so stuck in the old 2d client that it wouldn't matter how much better they could make a new client, it will still "suck" in comparison. Every excuse, attack and strawman will be trotted out against it every single time.
Right, wrong or otherwise, it's that mindset that currently has us with a graphically gimped "enhanced" client instead of a client that can push the envelope the way KR was intending to do.
Doesn't matter what the "bean counters" come up with when you have a playerbase anchored in decade-old technology. "Bah! Blu-Ray will never catch on or be as good as my Beta cassettes" seems to be the attitude.
UO is multi-faceted and ever changing... from playstyles, to rewards, to the client and server technologies, and so on. Anyone who signed up for UO expecting a "this is what you get forever" experience really doesn't understand the "persistent world" concept. Now that doesn't mean every change is good, nor does it mean that every change is bad, but the key thing is that it can, does, and will change for one reason or another.
Because of that nature, and to swing this back on topic, the Devs have the ability to change the nature of the various facets and breathe new life into them. They don't have to "let old areas rot" so to speak. Older areas need to be considered on occasion and observed to see if they are used or not, and if not, why not and how can those areas be improved to bring people to them.
It's be nice if they could "get everyone playing a 3d version", but it will never happen. Too many people, especially many who post on this site are so stuck in the old 2d client that it wouldn't matter how much better they could make a new client, it will still "suck" in comparison. Every excuse, attack and strawman will be trotted out against it every single time.
Right, wrong or otherwise, it's that mindset that currently has us with a graphically gimped "enhanced" client instead of a client that can push the envelope the way KR was intending to do.
Doesn't matter what the "bean counters" come up with when you have a playerbase anchored in decade-old technology. "Bah! Blu-Ray will never catch on or be as good as my Beta cassettes" seems to be the attitude.
UO is multi-faceted and ever changing... from playstyles, to rewards, to the client and server technologies, and so on. Anyone who signed up for UO expecting a "this is what you get forever" experience really doesn't understand the "persistent world" concept. Now that doesn't mean every change is good, nor does it mean that every change is bad, but the key thing is that it can, does, and will change for one reason or another.
Because of that nature, and to swing this back on topic, the Devs have the ability to change the nature of the various facets and breathe new life into them. They don't have to "let old areas rot" so to speak. Older areas need to be considered on occasion and observed to see if they are used or not, and if not, why not and how can those areas be improved to bring people to them.
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Trebr Drab
Guest
Dermott, the only reason so many stick with the old client is because the new ones have sucked, looks wise, in movement, and in many of the functions. Give us a quality new client, and I'd bet that almost everyone would go for it.
Perhaps that's where the Devs are struggling. What exactly would a quality client be? I've heard this said many times but no one really gave a good definition of what a quality client is. Simply saying better graphics but retaining the classic 2D version is how we ended up with this new client.
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Trebr Drab
Guest
Jeeze, ya know, if you have to explain "quality" to the Devs, then they are lost. Which seems to be the case, judging from the things they've been doing over the last years. Speaking collectively, of course.
i will try to "dumb this down" for both the avg stratics reader and ea dev team.
If you insist on making a new "client" for the game [in hopes of being more bug-proof/cheat-proof] make it look EXACTLY like 2-d
ANYTHING less than this WILL BE REJECTED by the 2-d userbase.
For those of you whom didnt get it the 1rst time
If you insist on making a new "client" for the game [in hopes of being more bug-proof/cheat-proof] make it look EXACTLY like 2-d
ANYTHING less than this WILL BE REJECTED by the 2-d userbase
but hey,,,why bother,,,UO 2 years ago had roughly 75-k monthlys,,,looking at the past 3 months that number probaly is twice what UO has now.If that is true then UO is making rl $$ comparable to year 1 which means it is very well possible its on EA`s chopping block and not going to see "new love"regardless of how much its customers would `like to see new content`
If you insist on making a new "client" for the game [in hopes of being more bug-proof/cheat-proof] make it look EXACTLY like 2-d
ANYTHING less than this WILL BE REJECTED by the 2-d userbase.
For those of you whom didnt get it the 1rst time
If you insist on making a new "client" for the game [in hopes of being more bug-proof/cheat-proof] make it look EXACTLY like 2-d
ANYTHING less than this WILL BE REJECTED by the 2-d userbase
but hey,,,why bother,,,UO 2 years ago had roughly 75-k monthlys,,,looking at the past 3 months that number probaly is twice what UO has now.If that is true then UO is making rl $$ comparable to year 1 which means it is very well possible its on EA`s chopping block and not going to see "new love"regardless of how much its customers would `like to see new content`
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
I don't think it has to look exactly like it...but it better at least be similar!
When dragons look like bugs, and Rune Beetles are WHITE?! (yes, I argued and argued here until that one was changed...you are all very welcome btw.), and when your player is on her horse, and her feet are dragging the ground...and your armor is AN ENTRIELY DIFFERENT COLOR and looks completely different...
...then you have not made the client similar enough, and most of us in the "2-d userbase" will indeed reject it.
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Trebr Drab
Guest
See, that's obviously not "quality". I just don't understand who would ever accept that.
Well, not quality to you. We have too much of a diverse interest in UO where we just can't agree on what we all want for a new client.
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
It's really easy:
Make a client that can run at higher resolutions, has all the UI updates that the KR/EC fans like, but make it look as close to the original art as possible, but smoother.
A new client should not equate to playing an entirely different game. UO should always look like UO did when UO was new...even if it is in higher rez.
Make a client that can run at higher resolutions, has all the UI updates that the KR/EC fans like, but make it look as close to the original art as possible, but smoother.
A new client should not equate to playing an entirely different game. UO should always look like UO did when UO was new...even if it is in higher rez.
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Trebr Drab
Guest
That is such poor quality work and decision making that they should be completely embarrassed and ashamed to tell anyone they put that out. Fortunately for them, they've found some customers like you.
Bleh, anyways, discussion continue of new clients in your thread... http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=191949