Insta suit switching during combat on EC

[Mervyn]

RE: Insta suit switching during combat on EC
Ok so this topic came up in conversation, should this be allowed during combat? For example, users of EC are able to switch suits instantly during combat, giving say 80 plus skill in one area when needed, or any type of stat/suit change depending on your situation or who'm you're fighting. Should you be allowed to switch suits instantly during combat?

Well, one argument is that if you kill somoene carrying 5 suits, you get 5 x the insurance, so it's up to them if they want to use a different suit for each spell/special they select.

Discuss.

 

[kelmo]

Use EC.

 

[RockoNV]

Use EC.

Solved.

 

[Prince Erik]

Use EC.

Years of "UOA can do this but I can't" response : "Use UOA" ... new "EC can do this but I can't" = "Use EC" seems to be about right.

-P.E.

 

[Merlin]

Whether you're in PVP or doing PVM, you should be able to switch suits on the fly. If you use CC without any third party programs that can do this, that is your choice. The option is out there and current EC users shouldn't be hindered from being able to use the suit dressing macro simply because a few people are butt-hurt over their inability to do it in CC. I mean what's next - no macro for quickly switching weapons or spell books while in combat because someone might get an advantage?

 

[BeaIank]

Either switch to the EC or form a sizeable group and start e-mailing the dev team in mass every day demanding this feature on the CC.

 

[Mervyn]

I didn't really intend this to turn into an EC client has advantage over CC client debate, the question was, should it be possible to do during combat? I mean, you can't switch skills on a soulstone during combat, (pvm/pvp) can we assume it's possible to do in CC?
I personally don't mind as i enjoy the extra insurance it brings from slaying enemies

 

[OREOGL]

RE: Insta suit switching during combat on EC
Ok so this topic came up in conversation, should this be allowed during combat? For example, users of EC are able to switch suits instantly during combat, giving say 80 plus skill in one area when needed, or any type of stat/suit change depending on your situation or who'm you're fighting. Should you be allowed to switch suits instantly during combat?

Well, one argument is that if you kill somoene carrying 5 suits, you get 5 x the insurance, so it's up to them if they want to use a different suit for each spell/special they select.

Discuss.

They had Pinco work on EC because it sucked pretty hard.

They just need to update the CC.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Sorry... gotta go with Mervyn on this one. The never ending EC/CC battle tossed to the side and focusing on just the issue of suit swapping alone, I don't think immediate suit swapping is something that should be allowed in PvP. There should be a cool down on it just like there is a cool down on Soulstones. Once you start a battle you should have what ya have and be stuck with what ya have for the duration of the fight.

 

[Finley Grant]

Works fine.
And yes it should be working everywhere as it currently does

 

[Aran]

They had Pinco work on EC because it sucked pretty hard.

They just need to update the CC.

They need to leave the real client the hell alone.

 

[OREOGL]

They need to leave the real client the hell alone.

Nah, they need to update the macros and map.

 

[sibble]

Can you guys get rid of EC because it's a better client and I refuse to use it?

 

[MalagAste]

If you want the features of the EC use them.... they are 100% available to everyone... crying about them won't get you any sympathy...

 

[MalagAste]

Sorry... gotta go with Mervyn on this one. The never ending EC/CC battle tossed to the side and focusing on just the issue of suit swapping alone, I don't think immediate suit swapping is something that should be allowed in PvP. There should be a cool down on it just like there is a cool down on Soulstones. Once you start a battle you should have what ya have and be stuck with what ya have for the duration of the fight.

So you want to not be able to swap your weapon out either???

I'm sorry but every good Dexers swaps out there weapons at least 2x in battle... watch what you wish for because I'm betting it's not that easy for one... and secondly it could have FAR worse implications.... we already have enough buggyness with lack of cohesion and logging out because you hit a mongbat on your way in the house... Now you want to add more stupid restrictions????? NO.

 

[Mervyn]

If you want the features of the EC use them.... they are 100% available to everyone... crying about them won't get you any sympathy...

Please stop putting words in people's mouths, nobody has yet to complain that this feature is available in EC over CC?

 

[Yadd of Legends]

I'm not a PvPer so can't weigh on in what rules you want to fight by but don't oppose it as long as it only applies to fighting humans and not PvM.
As far as I'm concerned, PvPers can agree on whatever changes they want, as long is only applies to fighting other players and not PvM.
I would oppose not allowing suit changing for PvM, because I'm not convinced luck is important enough to waste slots on suits but want to be able to switch to a luck suit at the end of a fight just in case luck does make a difference
If we need a rationale for allowing suit changing against monsters but not other players, we can just assume other players are smarter and faster than monsters and don't give a chance for a suit change while fighting, while monsters are slower and easier to avoid, so we can slip in a quick change.

 

[CovenantX]

Sorry to say, as long as CC users & EC users are able to play at the same time on the same servers, It's an unfair advantage.
Unfair Advantage - An unfair system or situation does not give equal treatment or equal opportunities to everyone involved. - No way!

EM Asiantam: they are running twice a faster than us
EM Asiantam: can you look into it?
Mesanna: what client do you use?
Mesanna: classic or ec>
EM Asiantam: Classic
Mesanna: ok the EC is faster than the classic
Mesanna: just so you know

I think most of us knew this is no secret before but, why is it set up that way?
I couldn't careless about the speed difference, they're faster because you can't "Turn" without moving in the direction of where you're facing in EC. It's really not a big deal.

It's more so the other features, suit swapping is a essentially a "set skill" command from TC once you find the right skill bonus items and fit them in your suit.
It's not as "game-breaking" as the TC version, but if it's used right, it could be almost as effective.
The extra insurance cost isn't the "trade off" because CC users could carry extra suits but wouldn't be able to use them as efficiently as someone on EC.

So again, There needs to be a better balance between both clients, period.

 

[JC the Builder]

So you want to not be able to swap your weapon out either???

I'm sorry but every good Dexers swaps out there weapons at least 2x in battle... watch what you wish for because I'm betting it's not that easy for one... and secondly it could have FAR worse implications.... we already have enough buggyness with lack of cohesion and logging out because you hit a mongbat on your way in the house... Now you want to add more stupid restrictions????? NO.

Switching a weapon is completely different from changing your entire suit with one button press. I could see this really being abused. Low on mana? Switch to your mana regeneration suit. Someone using physical damage weapon? Surprise them with your 125% reflect physical suit.

There should be sensible limits on suit swapping.

 

[Mervyn]

I'm not a PvPer so can't weigh on in what rules you want to fight by but don't oppose it as long as it only applies to fighting humans and not PvM.
As far as I'm concerned, PvPers can agree on whatever changes they want, as long is only applies to fighting other players and not PvM.
I would oppose not allowing suit changing for PvM, because I'm not convinced luck is important enough to waste slots on suits but want to be able to switch to a luck suit at the end of a fight just in case luck does make a difference
If we need a rationale for allowing suit changing against monsters but not other players, we can just assume other players are smarter and faster than monsters and don't give a chance for a suit change while fighting, while monsters are slower and easier to avoid, so we can slip in a quick change.

Perhaps the game mechanics should do a luck check at a random point that the monster is damaged to negate this exploit.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

Perhaps the game mechanics should do a luck check at a random point that the monster is damaged to negate this exploit.

Exploit? So you're saying you not only oppose switching suits during PvP but also during PvM?

 

[sibble]

Sorry to say, as long as CC users & EC users are able to play at the same time on the same servers, It's an unfair advantage.
Unfair Advantage - An unfair system or situation does not give equal treatment or equal opportunities to everyone involved. - No way!

You have the opportunity to use EC and you can choose to switch your suit instantly. Everyone has the opportunity to use EC, therefore there aren't any unfair advantages. You choose to play a client where you can't switch your suit. You can also choose to use a client where you can switch your suit. Equal opportunity.

EDIT:
In any case, one client being either capable or incapable of implementing advancements to this game should not dictate what the other client is capable of doing. There would be no reason for EC - Ultimately holding back this game from amazing additions.

Functionality shouldn't be removed from one client because the other is incapable of it. Now when we talk about something like a game mechanic, that's completely different. Game mechanics should be equal across the board. Client functionality is always going to differ.

Bottom line, I'm FOR adding functionality to CC, and AGAINST removing functionality from EC.

 

[Smoot]

no you should not be able to do this during combat. its overpowering and is specifically why other games dont allow it. (2mins out of combat to switch suit)

from an rp perspective, a warrior would not be able to switch armor while in mid fight.

it also creates huge balancing issues and makes the best loot less needed / desirable. like why should i work to fit say 60 extra skill into my template if i can just macro the jewel switch for the same button as the spell i need those skill points to cast?

this isnt an issue of EC vrs CC, its an issue of bad game design. i dont think switching items in combat was ever intended by the devs.

if it was, perhaps @Kyronix can clarify on what positive influence this option, which negates need for many high end items was meant to add to the game.

 

[Goodmann]

The EC is not even Ultima Online they should rename it to something else. It does not look the same and there has to be some kind of copy right infringement for them calling the EC Ultima Online

 

[sibble]

no you should not be able to do this during combat. its overpowering and is specifically why other games dont allow it. (2mins out of combat to switch suit)

from an rp perspective, a warrior would not be able to switch armor while in mid fight.

No it's not overpowering, if the person switching jewels is adding something to do something else, then they are obviously removing something else balancing whatever they just changed.

Bottom line is if you guys could do this in CC then there wouldn't be any crying about it. That's a fact.

 

[CovenantX]

Bottom line is if you guys could do this in CC then there wouldn't be any crying about it. That's a fact.

That's what we're aiming for, no reason to cry = everyone's happy!

 

[Smoot]

No it's not overpowering, if the person switching jewels is adding something to do something else, then they are obviously removing something else balancing whatever they just changed.

Bottom line is if you guys could do this in CC then there wouldn't be any crying about it. That's a fact.

why this is wrong is obvious. even in the progression of a 1 on 1 duel theres changes to what skills you actually need according to simple things like just if your high or low on health.

swithing out jewels for skills for a finisher for example thats only used when you know you wont need the stats lost to include the skills.

switch in extra 40 points of ninjitsu to cast animal form to run away.

switching in magery / eval items to cast curse for curse archer.

list is endless.

As for game design / dev intention, if you secure logout location to switch skills with soulstone. switch in and out gear / jewels / skills is the same thing.

Maybe require a secure logout location to switch skills on gear just like skills on soulstones.

 

[sibble]

why this is wrong is obvious. even in the progression of a 1 on 1 duel theres changes to what skills you actually need according to simple things to just if your high or low on health.

swithing out jewels for skills for a finisher for example thats only used when you know you wont need the stats lost to include the skills

And if both CC and EC users could do it then we wouldn't be having this conversation - which again is the bottom line cause. This entire discussion is "EC users can do something CC users can't." While I again agree that CC users should be able to switch all their items instantly, I completely disagree with removing functionality from EC because of it.

Multiple threads have brought this up, many posts. It's simple. If you could switch your suit instantly in CC you would not be replying to this conversation because this conversation wouldn't exist.

 

[Smoot]

And if both CC and EC users could do it then we wouldn't be having this conversation - which again is the bottom line cause.

wrong. its bad game design and shouldnt be available to anyone.

 

[sibble]

wrong. its bad game design and shouldnt be available to anyone.

Well, you know what they say about opinions...

OK so I guess with your idea of what it should be, then people shouldn't be allowed to switch weapons either. "From an RP perspective" - a warrior carrying a halberd, butcher knife, shield and a crossbow.

 

[Lady CaT]

Switching suits during combat?

 

[kelmo]

Why is it lame?

 

[Zosimus]

It shouldn't be allowed but that is my opinion

 

[Lady CaT]

Why is it lame?

Because while fighting in combat for your life you wouldn't remove your helm, take off your gauntlets, untie and remove your boots, unbuckle your belt, slip a chainmail shirt off over your head, take your chainmail pants off, pull new armor set out of your pack, put on platemail leggings, slip into a platemail tunic, attach platemail arms, put on platemail gloves, attach platemail helm, and put old suit in pack and be fighting the whole time. You would be dead.

Its a stupid computer game mechanic not based remotely in any real fighting concept. You of course are welcome to play and do whatever you like, since the likelihood of my UO experience crossing yours is absolute zero.

 

[kelmo]

That is fair. I respect opinions. I am kinda trying to steer this conversation back to topic. I feel a bit responsible for getting this off topic. Mentioning EC in the title impaired my reading comprehension. I did not realize this was a discussion on if swapping suits was acceptable.

I only wear one suit at a time. I will switch up on occasion depending on what I am doing or if I might get looted. I do carry two weapons and have almost taught myself to use potions in the heat of battle.

 

[kelmo]

But you can take a shot, apply bandages, drink a potion, eat an apple and fire again in seconds?

 

[Lady CaT]

But you can take a shot, apply bandages, drink a potion, eat an apple and fire again in seconds?

Of course you can. But most of those you named have consequences built into the mechanics right? Bandages aren't instant or guaranteed. Potions have different effects, timing, and use rate. Multiple fire, less damage per shot and time penalty, mana requirements.

A bit different than instantaneous armor change with no effect to the combat what so ever?

 

[King Greg]

Just going to throw this out there....

Remove the ability to switch suits while you are in the heat of Combat.

Keep the pvm players happy, remove the act from pvp. The issue is that the devs will need to figure out how to separate out the weapon swap portion and the armor/jewel swap portion so players can still insta swap weapons without having to resort to stupid tactics like casting Create food

 

[kelmo]

How long has this been a feature?

 

[sibble]

How long has this been a feature?

Since the beginning of time. It didn't need to be changed then, it doesn't need to be changed now.

 

[kelmo]

It is hard to take things away once the folks get used to the way things are.

 

[Zosimus]

About to die and switch a suit to full hp regen and max dci. Use whatever to help heal pots bandages and spells. Switch back to other suit that you was wearing. Rinse and repeat. You can do this in mid battle. It's unbalancing.

Now if it's not in heat of battle I have no issue.

 

[GarthGrey]

The best argument in this thread is the "cooldown" one. As long as that remains in game with regards to other suits..fishing/bard/beast etc..it should apply to all. I'm only commenting because I simply hate the cooldown thing in any aspect...

 

[Dot_Warner]

This entire thread is silly.

Calling for a nerf to swapping out armor while in battle? NEARLY 19 YEARS TOO LATE.

7 years too late to whine about instant full suit swaps as well.

Adapt or die.

 

[Smoot]

How long has this been a feature?

it was never really an issue for cc because you cant switch suits instantaneously with uoa. its very slow, item by item. in EC it swaps instantly the entire suit.

 

[Smoot]

It is hard to take things away once the folks get used to the way things are.

didnt they just do that with runebooks? just sayin

 

[King Greg]

How long was the ability to have weapon specials toggled while casting spells?

How long did it take before they added a dismount timer?

How long did it take them to make animal form interruptable?

Made deathstrike damage scale based on hiding and stealth?

How long did JOT automatically give us the 300 skill lower mana cost with just 1 real weapon skill?

How long before they added a % Chance for the bola to not land?

The list goes on and on.

Arguing that it shouldn't be changed because its been in the game so long is a pretty weak argument at this point.

 

[CovenantX]

It is hard to take things away once the folks get used to the way things are.

I assure you, the devs do not have any problems doing that. lol

If it weren't true, we'd still be able to spec-toggle while casting spells.
That was not an unfair advantage, they put band-aids on things they otherwise wouldn't or couldn't fix, as a result it limits the players in completely unnecessary ways. It was one of the best times this game has seen, now just a memory.

 

[sibble]

About to die and switch a suit to full hp regen and max dci. Use whatever to help heal pots bandages and spells. Switch back to other suit that you was wearing. Rinse and repeat. You can do this in mid battle. It's unbalancing.

Now if it's not in heat of battle I have no issue.

How about switching to a bestial suit? That's what I used to do till I realized how much extra weight I'd be carrying, taking away from my potions.

See? Balance.

----------------------------------------

Again, this wouldn't be a conversation if CC had the same functionality. There's nothing wrong with switching items during combat, it's clever usage of game mechanics and makes the game more dynamic. Now, the fact that EC can do it instantly and CC can't... that's a functionality difference.

See the title of the conversation? "ON EC"

That's all this is about, you people want to cry about functionality of a client cause you don't have it in yours. Hell I could quote a few people arguing they should remove suit "switching in combat" and referring to EC.

We all know EC is the superior client Go ahead and bring CC up to date with instant equipment switching!

Oh, and half the people involved in this conversation DON'T EVEN PVP so why do you think you should have an opinion on PVP COMBAT?

 

[King Greg]

No, the thread is asking if suit swapping in the middle of combat should be allowed.