I don't view this as a good/evil thing. I see it more in the sense of what each side is after, and how that might affect we Britannians.
I can sort of buy that, but if it's not handled properly in fiction, then don't we risk a Britannian civil war? If I choose to side with the Ophidians seeing the Bane as agents of genocide, and you choose to side with the Bane because the Ophidians may be up to greater evil, don't our paradigms sit opposed to each other? I'm not against things like this, but context and historical context are important. I mean, we already sort of went through a civil war with Casca. At very least, I hope they provide the context of Queen Dawn's stance on the affairs.
I've posted my thoughts elsewhere on what might be going on. I totally agree that we need more to go on. There was enough for me to come up with some speculations, but that's not enough. I don't want things laid out neatly, but I'd like to be able to discover information that leads better to conclusions of some sort. And I'd like that to be game play, not news articles.
Well, I've always supported more in-game avenues for fiction. I also understand that most of the background story will come by the way of a post. Personally, I think that Ricardo's in-game books were definitely a good method of conveying some in-game history and conviction.
It's baseless to assume that the Ophidians weren't justified in their invasion of Britannia, not enough information was given to be able to judge.
I totally agree with you... My point is precisely that we have no idea what the true context of things were to judge the value of aiding them in this current situation.
It depends entirely on what was stolen, and what the significance of that item is.
Well, and given that the real item was destroyed, we may never know. Also, given the lack of a replete writers' bible for the game, I question whether we'll ever truly know some of this stuff.
Also, Ophidians invade Britannia, and Britannians have invaded the Ophidians continually. It pretty much evens out, all sides are evil and none of them are.
Well, this all depends on context. I mean, if the history of the Ophidian race is that they're evil conquerors, and what remains of them today is the last vestiges (or rising vestiges) of their forces, then perhaps they truly are an evil. Of course, the things that would define them as evil are missing from the game. Simple combat does not make for an evil, and we know fairly well nothing about any of their culture. Do they sacrifice Terathan babies to their gods? Do they do so because the Terathans do the same to their babies? Do they drink human blood from disemboweled bodies? Or do they grow gardens in their spare time and wish only to be left alone. I guess that's my biggest issue with UO civilizations in general... the Meer and Juka were at least framed in their roles as good and evil... the Terathan and Ophidians have not been, and in 10+ years, you'd think we'd know a little more. It's actually a sad testament to UO fiction over the years that we don't. So many missed opportunities.
Also, why are Britannians somehow less evil than the monster races? When have they shown any restraint? They kill everyone they can.
Again, it depends on context and history. Sadly, we're pretty much left to presume that aggressive creatures are evil... a silly presumption... but then, what can you do?
Well, here's some of my rambling analysis:
One might argue that Britannia is in the throes of deciding whether the "virtues" are worth continuing, since the proponent of said "virtues" left (and pretty much screwed up a significant part of the worlds even when he was trying to be "virtuous".) Virtue has not needfully been good or evil, just a method of deciding ethically what you think of something.
While the Virtues are not necessarily good or evil in and of themselves, they are most certainly intended to be a path to a good, Virtuous life. Their application is what makes them good or evil in use (see: Cascan Virtue). One might argue that Britannia has been largely bereft of Virtue since The Shattering... but a great many players espouse and attempt to live by some or all of the Virtues.
Now why would we think blackrock-using folks are inherently evil?
You have to look at the past uses of blackrock -- first was FoA, where they were going to cast argmageddon using large chunks of blackrock conveniently placed in 3 or 4 chests around the realm. Which they did, opening the rifts to the lost lands. Was that an evil use? One could argue it was neither.
Actually, you'd have to go way out on a limb to argue that the use of blackrock by the Followers of Armageddon was not evil. Remember, the attempt to cast Armageddon by the FoA was, indeed, to destroy Sosaria. They weren't casting baby Armageddon and getting knocked through walls. The Armageddon they cast shook all of Britannia and opened the passages that lead to the underground Lost Lands (which, no matter whose silly AoS fiction is written, is not "another facet"). Their intentions, while certainly not "evil" in their own mind, cannot be looked upon as a good act.
Then we eventually get the blackrock generators in the lost lands and the eventual release all over Britannia (which implies that blackrock underlies the lost lands, which are underneath Britannia... which means Britannia's mantle has blackrock strewn through it.) This then causes havok as creatures turn into mad nasties and people rediscover the armageddon spell and "play" with it.
And EA releases the most ludicrous use of Blackrock ever to be seen in the game. It's curious that we didn't actually succeed in blowing Britannia to bits when pretty much ever magic user in the land decided to cast Armageddon willy-nilly just to see what the hell it did. As if the spell's name left a lot in question. I mean, from a character perspective, most who cast it were basically like, "Oh, I know the spell's called Armageddon... so let's see if I can really destroy the world!" It was only after the weakness the Shadowlords exhibited to the substance was revealed that I ever attempted to cast it on my character because frankly it made no sense to try to destroy the world.
Which led to the blackrock "dealers" around Haven that eventually seem to have cast armageddon again, this time destroying most of Haven island (or what should be Ocllo but someone was lazy and wouldn't make a separate area for it.) Was that "evil"? One could argue no, though none of my characters traded blackrock (which I was later proven to be stupid, actually holding up for a moral high ground that didn't matter and thus missing out on high level rewards that I could have used.)
No, that wasn't evil... that was just downright stupid.
Then a few more events with blackrock somewhat tangentially involved (killing time lords and such) and now we seem to have it appearing again.
Shadowlords, not time lords, and yes, the use of blackrock to fight the Shadowlords was clearly a good use. It saved lives, it defeated an evil that I don't think we could question is truly evil.
I actually don't look at blackrock as evil, but a force of nature that needs study and control. I look at the use as the problem -- but we never know the final use of it until it's done. Thus we can never make informed decisions but only from our gut. Which is never a good idea when you're talking world-changing events.
I agree that blackrock is a substance that must be studied, but as with all things, studied with care and responsibility. Ultima itself has several uses of the substance that aren't evil, and which don't drive you mad. There doesn't necessarily need to be a "final use" for blackrock anymore than ginseng, iron ore, or horned leather. However, much like sulfurous ash mixed into a potion, and lobbed into a meeting of peaceful delegates, a sword forged of iron used to chop children to tiny bits, or horned leather fashioned into armor that is used in an invasion to subjugate a non-aggressive force, certainly it's the use that must be studied.
Which brings us to feeding blackrock to a creature to empower or alter it. We know that such use of blackrock tends to mutate and agitate creatures. The Bane are clearly using it in order to modify their beasties, an act that is unnatural. Now, the ultimate use of those creatures does leave room for interpretation, but certainly, the mere act of doing so strays somewhat from Virtue.
Now, this apparent battle between the Ophidians and the others... We need to look at this a bit.
Remember, the Ophidians and Terathans had been battling apparently for millenia before we re-discovered them in the lost lands. The Terathans seem to have had a powerful society, or perhaps they just build their city from better stone. However, there is the volcanic area near the Ophidians, which makes me suspect that the Ophidians had a disaster that destroyed whatever major city they had.
We don't actually know how long they've been battling. We truly know very little about the Terathans or the Ophidians. In-game books that could tell the history have never been found. There's really not a lot that we do know save that they're at war and have been for ages.
We also know that the Ophidians must have a vast network of underground tunnels or something because their invasion forces were huge, and came from "nowhere." We truly have no idea the extent of the Ophidian empire, but we can guess it's larger than we know. So far, the Terathans seem to be the losing force, as they've rarely if ever been seen outside of their fortress.
They have been fighting and somewhat ignoring us... but you note that once the Ophidians turned their attention to Britannia they were easily able to invade and were tough to control without special weaponry. This leads me to believe that BOTH races are quite powerful and just very angry with each other over something in the far past. But if one side "won", we might be in significant trouble.
True... but again, the forthcoming incursion as far as we know does not involve Terathans. Also, it's important to note that they didn't turn eye toward us until they lost something special to themselves.
Since the Ophidians were able to mount such an offensive, it follows they are much more powerful than the Terathans at the moment (or the Terathans, being insect, just have no interest in anything outside their immediate needs.) It makes sense that something would attack the Ophidians -- especially if the Ophidians had been given or taken something to give them an edge over the Terathans and it needs to be removed.
I agree with you that the Terathans appear to be a lesser force -- though I would argue that they must be larger in force than it seems, because had the Ophidians launched an offensive like they launched against Britannia against the Terathans, that fortress would have been razed and there'd be not but spider guts as a reminder of the once proud race. As for attacking the Ophidians, the Bane seem clear in their intent via the cliloc strings: cleans Sosaria of the uncivilized races. Which turns back to the looming question: are the Ophidians uncivilized?
That is somewhat the only reason I can think of for someone to attack the Ophidians -- the Ophidians received something in the past that gave them an advantage over the Terathans; they used their new forces to attack us when it was stolen; the underlying power is still there, perhaps in a different form; the new group wants that power to start something else.
Well, again, we'll have to see what fiction is presented, but from what we know at the moment, it seems the Bane are going to be the initial aggressors in this new incursion.
As to who we should support -- we have no reason to support either party. The Ophidians truthfully leave us alone if we don't go near them; if we join with the others then they have more reason to fight us directly. The Terathans would potentially side with us if we fought against the Ophidians, but the Terathans are insect and we cannot trust them just as they can't trust us.
Well, and that's sort of the question of the day. Clearly the Bane are looking to get rid of uncivilized species, and are just starting with the Ophidians. Sure, the Terathans may ultimately rise up and take advantage of the situation, but from what base understanding we have of the Bane, they certainly don't subscribe to the theory that the enemy of their enemy is their friend. At base, there seems to be a lack of reason to join one side over the other that is in line with the Virtues, save perhaps saving the Ophidians from a potential genocidal threat.
We don't know the purpose of the others' attack, nor what they attempt to achieve. Thus we can't join either side until we know what's going on.
From the cliloc strings, it does appear that the Bane are out for revenge for fallen family members... Again, this discussion, I understand, is prior to any official fiction into the matter, but on the base values of what we know to be going on thus far, there's definitely more than one question to be answered.
But we never ever seem to be ABLE to find out what's going on until everything is done. This is one of the annoyances I've found with the underlying fiction for years. There are never hidden notes, carefully placed creatures or boxes that have clues for us to piece together and figure out what we should do. Instead, everyone kills everything thrown at them, an EM eventually yells instructions at us, there's a few npcs standing around announcing plot points, and we end up fighting something else at the end with most of the fighters having no idea what they're fighting.
You know, honestly, that's the reason that I loved the Ricardo lamp quest. While very base, and very repetitive, it's the first time I've seen actual in-game fiction that was discovered through in-game actions that built up a history to an event in-game (even if it was an event that already took place).
I'd love to see more books pop up in-game that explained these kinds of things. The closest we've gotten perhaps is the Ophidian books that are, as far as I can tell, completely indecipherable. If there's a context key I've never discovered it (not saying this precludes it from existing, just not something I've been able to decode), which lends to the presumption that it was flavor-text of random characters slapped together to look Ophidian.
In the end, I hope that the fiction for this event is compelling and that maybe some additional opportunities to provide context are used... but this all remains to be seen. In the meantime, the questions still remain...
