[Imbuing] Imbuing and the art of Numerology

[pgcd]

As somebody might know, I am and I always have been broke, so training imbuing "the Petra way" =) is not really an option. My system is a lot cheaper - I just buy gems, and just imbue what I loot from miasma etc - but it's also a lot more tedious, especially since there is no macroing whatsoever to be used.
So far so pointless, right? Well, not really, because I've noticed something and I'd like to know if I'm just clinically paranoid...
Here's the thing: I gained happily up to 92ish by aiming at a 60% chance with my imbues, when I read something to the effect that I would have gained a lot faster by aiming at 50 to 55%. So I spent three days grinding (for a grand total of around 3000 skill attempts, judging from my gem consumption), and I managed to gain up to 97.
Today I realized that I was gaining a lot better before, so I tried to find the "sweet spot", and I think I did: in the last two/three hours I tried to have exactly a 61.2% chance (by juggling luck, lrc, hit dispel and rpd), and I am currently at 99.8%, after something like maybe 300 skill attempts (always judging by gems).
I suppose it could be just a fluke, but there's a difference of a whole order of magnitude of attempts, which IMHO begs for a little more research. So, if anybody is still training, why not give 61.2 a try and see if there actually is a difference?

 

[Sarsmi]

When you eat a 120 scroll (or any scroll but 120 is the most significant) it raises the sweet spot which is typically 50%. Right now i'm aiming for 56-58% success, but I'm at 117. Ten points ago I was aiming for 58-65%. It's a curve you should adjust as you gain higher, as you get closer to your cap you should be aiming more towards 50% success.

Sorry if I didn't explain that well, I'm really sleepified right now.

 

[pgcd]

When you eat a 120 scroll (or any scroll but 120 is the most significant) it raises the sweet spot which is typically 50%. Right now i'm aiming for 56-58% success, but I'm at 117. Ten points ago I was aiming for 58-65%. It's a curve you should adjust as you gain higher, as you get closer to your cap you should be aiming more towards 50% success.

Sorry if I didn't explain that well, I'm really sleepified right now.

I understand perfectly - and it's what made me waste so many attempts, or at least that's how I felt. I'm gonna see how long this 61.2 thing continues, so if it makes any sense I'll let you know.

 

[The Scandinavian]

Hi there pgcd,

I agree with you.
The first thing I did when I tweaked my guide was to move from around 50% to around 55%.The fun thing is that my session yesterday had a successrate at 61 on the last property.




Regards
The Scandinavian

 

[Myna]

i agree too

the best gains i have had between 60 and 62 no matter if i have eaten a 120 scroll or not or if i was close to my cap or not.

funny thing was also i had a few gains >115 skill when i imbued the first property after mage armor (so to be correct it was the second property) with over 100% success chance

 

[Beastmaster]

I found my "sweet spot" each time by noticing when I got 3 gains in close succession, ie. 3 gains in like 15 attempts.

 

[Bman]

Hello,

I am currently at 82 skill and imbuing legendary made daggers with hit dispel, gains seem pretty slow. I have adjust the success percent to right around 60% and it still seems slow..

Do I need to switch and start making daggers out of runic hammers? or can I continue imbuing legendary made daggers as long as I keep the success percentage around the 60% range?

Thanks,
Bman

 

[Storm]

to start with I went for 50-60 (tried to get as close to 57 as i could it was my sweet spot) at about 92 gains went way bad so I used 115 scroll gains improved and sweet spot went to about 62 to 63! now at 108 (still 115 because just training on crafter then moving to garg who is training myst or i would eat another scroll now) and now my sweet spot seems to have split i get decent gains at 65 or so and also at about 55 its kinda weird ! now the gains are not great but managable I am almosted tempted just to move skill to gargoyle and eat 120 I think my gains would improve up to about 118 or 119 then I bet its a grind to the end!

 

[Chadlo]

I'm no expert, but I've trained a lot of characters in 13 years. I'll tell you that imbuing is different.

That said, my experience and I'm at 83.4 so far has been pretty good. I'm a cheap *******, and as such I use one property so far. LUCK.

Luck is over-rated and you get good gains on it even at lower levels. I've heard many people talk about how you need to add multiple properties and I say BS so far.

Right now my sweet spot has been between 70 and 75% success rate. When I get up to the 75, I bump the luck I'm adding up until I reach the 70% again. I've been tooling right along with 4 full points of gain in the last 4 hours.

It's been pretty cheap, I'm doing 3 magical residue and 6 citrine a pop and I'm 83.4...errr 83.5.

Bottom line is this, if you have a chance to gain (which you do anywhere between .1% chance of success and 100% ) you could make a gain. It's all about the roll. There is no anti-macro code anymore, and if you want to go slow and cheap this isn't a bad way to roll.

That 4 full points has cost me about 300 magical residue and a number of gems. I unravel as soon as I imbue the item too so I get a % of the residue back each time.

Have fun and I hope that helps out you fellow cheap skaters.

P.S. I'm making bokutos out of regular wood it only takes 6 wood to do it, so it's pretty good. I destroy non-exceptional ones as they are a waste of time.

 

[Basara]

Chadlo - can't you donate the non-exceptional bokutos at the Brit library toward the folding steel glasses? Be better than destroying them....

 

[Storm]

you can donate them I chose not to but that is a good idea for people who want to spend the time !

 

[pgcd]

It's way too early to be sure, but I think it's kinda interesting: following my strategy (aim for 61.2%, if it's too much higher unravel, if it's lower I'll give it a single attempt, if it's under 40% i'll unravel), in the last couple days I went from 100.5 to 103.3.
It took me a total of two hours and a half (very sparse playing), around 800 residue and 1200 gems. I'll post the exact figures in a few days when I finish the training, but I think this is worth pointing out now.

 

[pgcd]

It took quite a lot longer than expected, mostly because of RL, but I finally made legendary Imbuer, and kept a gain log from 100.5 to 120.0 - here it is!

[b]
Skill	Residue Citrine Amber 	Time 	Essence	Items[/b]
1009	82	124	8	0.17	17	40
1011	89	133	8	0.13	12	35
1012	-2	1	2	0.03	31	22
1015	107	154	7	0.14	11	35
1015	51	54	26	0.08	11	22
1018	135	191	10	0.16	23	48
1018	24	39	7	0.07	5	12
1020	48	66	3	0.05	3	12
1025	68	107	2	0.09	9	24
1030	122	193	35	0.25	20	67
1033	135	154	40	0.21	57	60
1035	92	141	56	0.25	22	72
1042	126	178	0	0.15	12	36
1047	72	85	50	0.15	22	39
1050	56	111	5	0.09	17	29
1050	19	66	2	0.11	5	34
1059	154	251	19	0.30	33	80
1062	108	152	59	0.23	25	74
1072	219	360	18	0.43	47	127
1077	77	130	77	0.31	25	83
1086	263	279	75	0.38	80	94
1091	245	133	215	0.38	90	98
1093	161	67	105	0.16	43	36
1097	192	141	208	0.42	28	95
1100	275	131	168	0.25	80	42
1108	192	195	170	0.43	25	102
1111	160	102	65	0.21	65	50
1113	55	59	62	0.24	10	40
1125	546	336	309	1.15	97	121
1128	17	151	139	0.45	20	89
1138	332	325	475	2.10	94	311
1142	486	276	311	1.03	123	136
1148	309	123	203	0.32	71	57
1154	256	178	299	0.55	59	147
1163	450	182	194	0.47	99	76
1172	537	329	204	0.58	92	89
1184	813	386	371	1.14	130	94
1192	583	320	221	0.40	91	63
1200	703	360	360	0.56	91	67
Totals [b]8357	6763	4588	21.02	1795	2758[/b]

The method is the one I was talking about, except near the very end (118+) when I was finding it very hard to find suitable loot, so I began going the full ten imbues whenever the chance was between 60% and 70%.

To put the numbers in perspective, I should mention that
1) I never intentionally used more than one gem per attempt, except when lowering the chances for the following nine imbues. Whenever I did this, I never used more than one residue per attempt. So, if it took more than a residue to bring the chances to a suitable level, I just unraveled.
2) Starting from 110 skill, I used mostly "filtered" loot - that is, loot that had been unraveled by the 0-skill fighter, so that only theoretically useable intensities were left.
3) I had a total of .4 gained outside training, because I imbued a few weapons for the fighter.
4) For the last stretch I used around 200 other gems (emeralds, rubies and a few diamonds) to imbue resists that had the correct 61ish chance.
5) "Essence", of course, is the essence I gained from unraveling the loot (possibly after imbuing)
6) I noted down at least 7 sequences of at least 8 fails in a row with 61ish success chance, with a very funny 12 fails in a row. Make of that what you will.
7) The time does not account for the fighting & looting. If you want to take that into account, you should probably add another 20 hours (i.e. double the time needed).
8) I had the impression that the morning (when the shard is less populated) were more fruitful in terms of gains. The numbers don't really confirm this, so...
9) I only paid for gems (50gp each), so this part of the training cost me around 600k.

Finally, the longest stretches without gains have been around 7/8 minutes, and have mostly been due to not finding the proper loot (as you can see from the low residue expenditure).