How much does 120 realskill really help?

[startle]

Has anyone run the numbers on what the actual (practical) difference is between pure 4x120 realskill Bard and a 4xGM-Jeweled to 120 Bard - when it comes to how much more benefit you get by taking the realskills to 120, vs using jewels to get there.
Specifically the benefit's to the Bard Spell Songs is what I'm referring to here.....

I mean, is it really worth that much investment in skill points to go all the way to 120 - and in doing so, sacrifice 80pts that could have gone into another supporting skill...

*** where the hell's Poo when you need him ***

 

[Harlequin]

The difference is huge.

From what I remember of my tests, with 105 skills in all 4 skills and jewels to boost them all to 120, things like mana regen is around 6.
At 120 real skill, mana regen is 20+ (around 22).

So the power of the songs scale only with real skill.

 

[Herman]

Should be a sticky that explain the math for every spellsong but if u make it simple it work something like this

You get 1 point for every 10 skill points (real skill)

Your primary bard skill start from 90 (this is music and your master bard skill)
Secondary start from 100

Ex

2 x legendary bard 120 music and ex provo get 8 points

4 x Gm bard 6 points

3 x legendary bard 11 points

4x 110 bard 10 points

4x legendary bard 14 points

The points is the modification for every spell song

 

[NuSair]

120 helps a lot... especially over multiple skills. Example, since I am running them atm, on a 4x120 real skill bard the peace songs produce the following:

+22 HP/Stamina/Mana regen
Curse durations reduced
Resistance to poison
Bleed Duration reduced
Mortal Would duration reduced

+30% DCI
-30% Damage Taken
+6% Casting focus

It affects everyone in your party within range and includes pets.

If there isn't a thread up about this somewhere, I'll write up a break down, but I want to say Poo or Logrus already did somewhere.

 

[Harlequin]

You are right, both Poo and Logrus have already done it. Calculations are in this sticky:

http://stratics.com/community/threa...l-new-bards-updated-2012.168520/#post-1796858

The only thing I had to verify was whether the power scales up with jewels, or if it absolutely had to be real skill (Poo and Logrus weren't explicit enough in the FAQ in that only real skill affects the bard songs' power).

 

[NuSair]

Yeah, jeweling up has no effect on songs, other than maybe keeping them going if you are discorded, I haven't tested that yet.

 

[startle]

120 helps a lot... especially over multiple skills. Example, since I am running them atm, on a 4x120 real skill bard the peace songs produce the following:

+22 HP/Stamina/Mana regen​

Curse durations reduced​

Resistance to poison​

Bleed Duration reduced​

Mortal Would duration reduced​

​

+30% DCI​

-30% Damage Taken​

+6% Casting focus​

​

It affects everyone in your party within range and includes pets.​

​

If there isn't a thread up about this somewhere, I'll write up a break down, but I want to say Poo or Logrus already did somewhere.

Really great input guys, thanks....

Now that I look at your review of the benefits to running Resilience/Perseverance and look back at the wiki guide's entry for Bard Masteries - I'm trying to get my head around -how to figure out which of the Masteries is most beneficial in any given situation... And I'm thinkin you guys can help me with this....

The whole reason for my question was that I've been a 4x120 bard for a long time and just started using Mysticism/Focus on the points that are left (240) - replacing what I used for years, which were Magery/Hiding. Don't know why/how it took me so long (years) to realize how much more powerful an RC is over an EV... However, as you know there are drawbacks to running this:

120 Music/Peace/Provo/Disco​

100 Mysticism​

100 Focus​

40 other​

The issues that I have are mainly - no hiding (for more than a few seconds via potions) - and no magery (to cast the gates necessary on SP). Not sure which one annoys me more.... I've contemplated dropping one of the 3 bard skills to free up 120 points, drop Myst/Focus both to 90 then jeweling those back up, and get hiding/magery back to useable levels. But - I really would like to keep all 3 masteries at my disposal, plus the additional benefits to the songs..... And I really like being able to cast a powerful RC....

What I want to do is to be as much benefit as possible to my party members via my bard songs, and also be able to hit something as hard as I can with the skillpoints left over (after the 480 hit for the 4x120). Don't want to add any dexer/archer type skills because of the dex issue...

So, what suggestions could you give for a more powerful template than this or what I can do to keep it and still deal with the lack of hiding/gateing...

 

[NuSair]

Seige? It depends on how comfortable you are with equipment. I mean, you can run something like....4x120, then magery, mysticism, focus.... jeweling up. say like 13 in each, that would be 39 in each from just jewelry... then there is the +5 magery talisman... and +spellbook..... or you could go with a crafted spellbook with +10 or higher in each magery/focus..... that would be... 142 extra points via items....

4x120=480
if you went 100 mystic/focus, that's 680....out of a possible 862.... leaves like 182 points?

so, 120 mystic, 120 focus, 4x120 bard, which comes to 720 (6x120), with 142 points left over for magery (120)... then 22 points left for something else...

More serious... you can really put some skill points on jewelry and effectively up your magery go to in this template.

 

[startle]

Seige? It depends on how comfortable you are with equipment. ..... you can really put some skill points on jewelry and effectively up your magery go to in this template.

Yea.... Being on Siege makes a big difference, with the no insurance thing... So it's not like I can make a max'd out set of jewels and have any realistic expectation of keeping them on this template on SP - so here's what I think I hear you saying:
Mystic 94
Focus 94
which leaves 52 real for magery starting level....
I can then do the +26ea Mystic/Focus/Magery jewels cheaply enough, which would let me max out Myst&Focus and have 78 magery, but - practically at least 88 - with a spellbook. This would work for both the gating and the hiding.... Well, the hiding from Invisibility is at least longer than pots, but I will miss my gm hiding (when I want to park a char for 10 mins, while I have - a life)....

Oh well, nothin's perfect....

 

[Harlequin]

Definitely sounds like a good plan.

Leave the bard skills at 120 real. +13 jewels for the other skills (imbued on clean fc/fcr jewels looted from mobs).
I say add some extra LMC/MR on your suit too. +1 MR imbued is cheap if you don't have a stockpile of looted LMC+/MR2+ armor from mobs.

+Skills on spellbooks go up to 12.

If you are willing to scribe Myst spellbooks, you can try getting one with 12 Myst + 12 Focus (takes alot of tries, but Myst spellbooks are still blessed on Siege I think, I haven't played Siege since before SA. You can sell the extra slayer books too. What's the going rate on Siege?).

Swap between the Magery and Myst books as necessary. Upping Magery gives more HP when using GHeal. And also less chance of fizzing gate at critical times.

Quick table, not sure if it'll come out correctly:

Skill    Real  Ring  Brace  Book  Modified
Mager    76    13    13     12    114
Mysti    82    13    13     12    120
Focus    82    13    13     12    120
Music    120    0                 120
Disco    120    0                 120
Provo    120    0                 120
Peace    120    0                 120
Total    720

 

[Barry Gibb]

What I want to do is to be as much benefit as possible to my party members via my bard songs, and also be able to hit something as hard as I can with the skillpoints left over (after the 480 hit for the 4x120). Don't want to add any dexer/archer type skills because of the dex issue...

So, what suggestions could you give for a more powerful template than this or what I can do to keep it and still deal with the lack of hiding/gateing...

I suggest you use either the Peace or Provoke Masteries, to benefit your party. Those masteries augment the defensive (via Peace) or offensive (via Provoke) capabilities of the party members. The Discord masteries are more aligned with the Bard's own damage output, not party support. It would be wise to ask your guildmates which augments they could benefit from the most (assuming your most common hunting party are guildmates).

http://uo2.stratics.com/skill-guides/skills-and-professions/musicianship/bard-mastery

If you just want to run a default for random player parties, use Provoke-Invigorate, I've never seen anyone complain about more hit points and extra healing.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[CorwinXX]

Spell books are blessed on SP so you can use +12 skill spell books. 13 skill is cheap to imbue.
I suggest you to get at least 92 magery (with equipment). 92 magery means 100% chance to cast Invisibility. And you will be able to mark/gate/heal/teleport and so on.

You can reforge 3MR on a leather armor piece with a spinned runic sew then enhance (before imbuing) with barbed leather. You lose some pieces but it shouldn't be a big problem for a Tailor who get 3 BODs every day. Probably it will take 1 spinned runic per piece.
Reforging 4 MR on a shield is cheap as well. You can make it brittle to get more power.
6*3 + 4 = 22 MR without artifacts is not bad. Pure bard could get 30 MR with 2x shame 4MR jewels but for mystic bard skills on jewels are more useful.

I think you will be able to solo Lady Melisandra with this char.

 

[startle]

@ Harlequin, Herman, NuSair, BG & CorwinXX :

Wow, I'm blown over by your willingness to help me understand the best ways to put this char together - and especially in a manner that should be reproducible relatively easily on SP. I will study all of your suggestions and ask any further questions later.... For now, thanks to all of you...

 

[NuSair]

best.... not so sure about that... was mostly just talking off the top of my head... I don't even play on SP.

 

[startle]

best.... not so sure about that... was mostly just talking off the top of my head... I don't even play on SP.

Yea, but you understand the main difference - and you alluded to it here:

Seige? It depends on how comfortable you are with equipment..

It's all about making the best template you can without depending on insurance to come to the rescue of very valuable equipment. On Siege, you only wear what you can afford to lose - the key word here being afford...

 

[Harlequin]

You are welcome and I thank you Your posts on other subjects have helped me immensely too.

Years spent in Fel without insurance (plus insurance bugs) have taught me very hard lessons on using only replaceable equipment. That, plus I'm cheap.

 

[Logrus]

If you are going the mystic/focus route, you can do 4x bard + myst/focus
I've done that but you will always get hit since you lack any defensive skill.
Typically I do a Provo/Peace with Myst/Focus and (Magery or Wrestling)
The magery/wrestling is simple for defense so that I can use a mage weapon or use wrestling to disarm.
Alternating with the peace/provo masteries as needed.
(Also stoneform increased resists stacks with the damage reduction from preservance)

On a completely passive note, at 3x120 you should be able to keep up both peace masteries with just 120 focus and no additional mana regen. You'll probably be running just about even on mana.

The provo masteries you would need to alternate back and forth with. You'd need LMC and additional MR to keep them up concurrently indefinitely.