How long is stat loss in factions?

[Guest]

Just as the title of the post says. How long is stat loss? Also why, whats the reason? Seems kinda lame.

 

[imported_Tina Small]

It is supposed to be 20 minutes, however a few of us have begun to think the time has been shortened a bit. Haven't timed it, but have been able to get back to my corpse after getting out of it. So either the time has been shortened or corpses are taking longer to decay.

Don't let being in stat loss scare you out of joining factions. It definitely levels the playing field, encourages teamwork and watching out for your mates, discourages doing truly stupid things, and gives faction raids a tide or a rhythm that I believe benefits both defenders and attackers.

 

[Otis Firefly]

stat loss for 20 minutes
guess its a way of keeping you from gearing up and runnin straight back into battle...have to wait 20 mins if you want your full stats...
its the only reason i can think of

 

[imported_Velvathos]

I think it is something that needs looked into, it might be a drawback from people joining factions as well with benefitical acts turned off... (In all facets)

If reds don't have stat loss anymore, then neither should factions.. I think the reason why all your characters can join a faction now is cause there wasn't enough theives and smiths to make faction armor, everyone joined with their fighters cause factions lost all aspects except for the PvP one..

 

[Guest]

20 minutes

It's so you have an excuse to go make a coffee after you died

Nah, I think the intention is to prevent players from simply re-joining a battle if they die.

On Europa virtually all the RP guilds have a 30 min cool down after death for this reason, so it's not something that everyone objects to. The only time I've been a little nervous around it in factions was when I had my tamer factioning and the stat loss really affected her control *grins* We got to the stables, but 'twas a near thing

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

I'd like to see the time dropped, bit not eliminated. I serves a purpose, and works well in keeping players out of the battle for a short period...la

 

[imported_Tina Small]

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The only time I've been a little nervous around it in factions was when I had my tamer factioning and the stat loss really affected her control *grins* We got to the stables, but 'twas a near thing

[/ QUOTE ]

Wenchkin, I rarely rez my faction tamers while they are in stat loss. Rezzing for them just isn't worth it...they lose some bandages and maybe some silver. If I do get them rezzed in stat loss, I don't give even one command to the pets and just let them carry on doing what they're doing (hopefully trying to avenge my tamer's death), die or log out to auto-stable them. So far in 16 months of doing that I haven't lost a pet yet and I think only one time saw them get down to just "very happy," and that was probably because I let a wall get between the tamer and the pets for a few minutes.

When my thieves or other characters go into stat loss, I usually use the opportunity to get behind enemy lines and do a bit of spying before getting rezzed. Or go have a conversation with the enemy medium....

 

[imported_Velvathos]

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I'd like to see the time dropped, bit not eliminated. I serves a purpose, and works well in keeping players out of the battle for a short period...la

[/ QUOTE ]

With how small factions are currently, I don't think you're going to find many big battles....... Maybe like a 3 on 3 that last for 30 seconds??

Who knows..

 

[Guest]

Aye, it's much easier to deal with a faction tamer's death now than when I was doing it. Like before bonding *grins* But then, you had pets you more or less threw at the enemy so all you hoped for was to save a bit of time taming replacements

I'm taking an archer and a thief into factions to start with, then likely one of my tamers. Depends how the first 2 do really

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

RTLFC

Ok, now I'm even more confused. Stat loss must mean more than the name implies because how does losing Str, Dex or Int affect tamers? Do you lose skill points as well? If so, how many?

 

[Guest]

You only lose 33% of skills for 20 minutes. People incorrectly label is stat loss when it should really be skill loss. I think PKs used to lose both stats and skills, but people shortened it to stat loss. Then it was just translated to factions.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the info. Next question, does it happen every time you die or just when you die during pvp or faction fighting? This would suck during PVM.

 

[Guest]

You only go into stat loss if your killing blow (last hit that kills you) is from:

1) Enemy faction player or their pet
2) Enemy faction monster
3) Yourself

 

[imported_Velvathos]

Actually, factions sucks in PvM because nobody outside your faction can perform actions on you... This includes..

Pet Transfers
Buff spells: Night sight, Bless, Cure, Arch Cure, etc...
Healing: Bandages, Healing Spells

So you can't get any of that outside your faction.. With how dead factions are, it isn't a good idea in my opinion and it is pointless in Tram...

Devs need to adress this, and get rid of it.. If anyone has any back-up reason to keep people in factions from receiving these actions, I want them to explain...

Despite not being able to get help from other players, the upside is that insurance is only half as much.. 300gp..

 

[Guest]

It's plenty active on Siege. leave it alone...la

 

[imported_Tina Small]

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Thanks for the info. Next question, does it happen every time you die or just when you die during pvp or faction fighting? This would suck during PVM.

[/ QUOTE ]

It happens when an enemy faction character or enemy faction monster kills your character. I believe you also go into skill loss if your faction character commits suicide. (I put one of my newbie trap removers that was in factions in skill loss when she died, in Trammel, trying to remove traps from some boxes that she had trapped.) I still get a tad bit confused over whether dying to an enemy faction guard or dying on enemy faction traps puts you in skill loss. Sometimes both things hit you at once and one of them does not, for some reason, seem to always put you into skill loss but the other one does. (I think traps generally don't and guards do, but I could have it backwards.)

While you're in skill loss, skill jewelry still works, so some people carry extra sets of jewels to help them limp along and still play somewhat while they are in skill loss. Others just take advantage of the break, like Wenchkin said.

 

[Guest]

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Actually, factions sucks in PvM because nobody outside your faction can perform actions on you... This includes..

[/ QUOTE ]
This is something that was requested to be changed. The changes being made currently mostly address issues for current PVPers. But don't handle what is preventing people who don't PVP for joining.

Beneficial acts should probably be removed completely from everything. Or at least changed so that it isn't on all the time. It isn't helping much of anything and never did.

 

[imported_Velvathos]

Aye, the awesome thing about Order and Chaos (seperate from factions.) Was there you didn't have skill or stat loss and there were no un-benefictial acts and you could fight in any facet...

Pretty much what everyone wants factions to be....

 

[Guest]

Actually beneficial acts was added specifically so players in Trammel couldn't heal Order/Chaos fighters. Then it was added to Factions and guild wars and dueling in Felucca, it is ridiculous and doesn't do what it is intended to do.
<blockquote><hr>

If you want to do a lot of PvM with a faction character, join a decent-sized faction guild that is interested in PvM activities during the times when there's nothing going on with factions. Then you'll have people around you that can give you aid and assistance.

[/ QUOTE ]
Those don't exist.

 

[imported_Velvathos]

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AFAIK the reason is to prevent a blue player from healing factioners whilst outside the faction himself. If you're fighting someone inside a city and they have blue healers, there is nothing you can do about it.



[/ QUOTE ]

I could understand keeping it in Fel... But in Tram, Malas, Ish and Tokuno it is 111% pointless.....

 

[imported_Velvathos]

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Actually beneficial acts was added specifically so players in Trammel couldn't heal Order/Chaos fighters. Then it was added to Factions and guild wars and dueling in Felucca, it is ridiculous and doesn't do what it is intended to do.
<blockquote><hr>

If you want to do a lot of PvM with a faction character, join a decent-sized faction guild that is interested in PvM activities during the times when there's nothing going on with factions. Then you'll have people around you that can give you aid and assistance.

[/ QUOTE ]
Those don't exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

They eventually got got rid of it for Order/Chaos, most of those guild were war guilds, they had it for war guilds, but that is gone now.. I just found out that if your guild is at war with another guild or a enemy faction guild, you can receive benfictial acts from them in Tram..

But I agree with you..

So basaclly it just exists for Factions now..

 

[imported_Velvathos]

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed 100%....it isn't that bad and like I said earlier, I think skill loss and the no beneficial acts rule help make people play a bit smarter, be more tactical in their fights, be a little more self-reliant, and also watch out for each other. Not bad things to promote, in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not all of us in factions are fighters and hardcore pvpers.... Some of us on theives, who are necessary to steal sigs... And some of us are blacksmiths, or make faction armor for others.... Look it at it from a different class perspective. I think this is why they made it so you could have all your characters in a faction, because it was made up of hardcore pvpers only and there was nothing of the other classes..

 

[Guest]

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Wenchkin, the no beneficial acts rule is currently in place all the time and in all facets. You cannot transfer pets to characters that are in factions unless your character is in the same faction. However, oddly enough, a faction tamer can rez enemy faction characters' pets.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, it sounds a bit different to how I remember it. We certainly had non factioners helping supply us with pets at one point, so I guess it got changed somewhere along the line. Might be a use for my tamer in factions aside from raiding then heh.

Wenchy

 

[imported_Tina Small]

<blockquote><hr>

Not all of us in factions are fighters and hardcore pvpers.... Some of us on theives, who are necessary to steal sigs... And some of us are blacksmiths, or make faction armor for others.... Look it at it from a different class perspective. I think this is why they made it so you could have all your characters in a faction, because it was made up of hardcore pvpers only and there was nothing of the other classes..

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I have only one character, an archer, in factions that I would consider made for hardcore PvP. The other characters I have in factions are tamers, thieves, and tinkers.

Since I don't try to do any fighting with the tinker and I generally keep her out of Fel as much as I can, skill loss and no beneficial acts has never been something I worried about for her. If she were to die while on her way into the base to vote, I'd just wait and take her later when it's safer (voting periods last a few days).

I don't really use the thieves outside of Fel. However, if and when I do and they die, NPC healers are commonplace enough to not make it a big deal.

I hunt with my faction tamers in all facets. Regardless of where they die, I just find a healer to rez them if no one else is around or if everyone else is busy fighting. I also have other tamers that aren't in factions that I use when hunting in a group with non-faction characters and cross-healing is something to worry about. What works best though, of course, is to just do group activities with other characters that are in the same faction. That should be a lot easier to accomplish now with the rule changes that are included in Publish 52.

 

[Guest]

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Ah, it sounds a bit different to how I remember it. We certainly had non factioners helping supply us with pets at one point, so I guess it got changed somewhere along the line.

[/ QUOTE ]
For the first few months blues would enter strongholds and interfere. Then beneficial acts was implemented and blues were kicked out of strongholds.

Actually it looks like the beneficial acts code is broken. It says it is only supposed to kick in when an enemy faction player deals damage.
<blockquote><hr>

Characters who are not in a faction will not be able to perform beneficial acts (such as healing, curing, etc.) on non-criminal or murderer characters in a faction if the target has received lawful damage from another player. The status of being lawfully damaged by someone (on someone that is attacked) is cleared when they reach full health. For example, if Player A was in the Shadowlord faction and was attacked by player B in the Council of Mages faction, this is considered lawful damage and player A would have the "lawfully damaged by" status. Players outside of a faction will still be able to attack a character in a faction, but can receive a murder count if they do so (unless other systems allow for this attack, such as guild wars).

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http://update.uo.com/design_262.html

 

[Guest]

Hrm, yeah that looks to be broken....

What I remember seemed to be that you couldn't perform any beneficial acts on someone in Tram, but if you went to Fel you were only prevented from doing so if they'd been fighting recently. Which looks like the info you pasted in there...

Wenchy

 

[imported_Lord Kynd]

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20 minutes

It's so you have an excuse to go make a coffee after you died

Nah, I think the intention is to prevent players from simply re-joining a battle if they die.

On Europa virtually all the RP guilds have a 30 min cool down after death for this reason, so it's not something that everyone objects to. The only time I've been a little nervous around it in factions was when I had my tamer factioning and the stat loss really affected her control *grins* We got to the stables, but 'twas a near thing

Wenchy

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so this stat loss also effects skills to ?

once the 20 minutes is up do we get our stats/skills back ? or is it perm?

 

[crayfish]

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so this stat loss also effects skills to ?

once the 20 minutes is up do we get our stats/skills back ? or is it perm?

[/ QUOTE ]

You get everything back in 20 mins. The point is so a battle can have a winner and a loser. It gives smaller numbers a chance against larger numbers because there is a penalty for dying. You can still fight, but will not be as effective after you die.

 

[imported_Velvathos]

They should keep benefictial acts for player vs player but delete it for everything else... That is how it is suspose to be..

I think a good idea would be is that you see your skills automataclly start to go up for 20 minutes rather than all at once....