How is damage calculated for new bard mastery effects?

[Luke Carjacker]

While I've expressed my reservations elsewhere about how the new masteries have been implemented, I will say that I'm happy bards are getting some additional features. I'm also happy that Logrus is responding to our messages, even though he seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how people use the various skills together. Anyhow, hopefully some of that will be worked out.

But the point of this post, I'm wondering of Logrus could answer a question regarding how damage for these effects are credited.

For example, under tribulation I see "damage taken can trigger an additional 20-60% damage" based on discord & music skill. Ok, so who gets credit for this damage? Is it the person who originally dealt the damage, or the bard? How about Inspire, with 40% damage increase and 15% SDI. I have no problem if the healing/regenerative effects are not credited, everyone should be helping with that as part of a party.

Also, Logrus commented in another post, that mana upkeep costs will be higher based on the number of pets/party members on a spell effect. Seems to be the only skill penalized this way. For example, everyone can benefit from a curse spell or corpse skin or other debuffs without costing mana maintenance. Why are bards penalized in this way? Again, I'm glad for some new abilities, but seems like steps are being taken so that nobody will ever want to try these things because using them is so onerous.

Finally, just some background regarding why I'm asking these questions. Bards have never been properly credited for damage done at spawns. They get no credit for discord effects (intended I guess), but bards also get zero credit for provoke damage on spawn bosses (over the years developers have one after another confirmed that this is not intended, but they never fixed it). I'm pretty sure this fact has been lost on current developers, but a bard could do 99% of the damage on a champ by provoking top level spawn onto the boss, and receive zero scrolls and no looting rights (and no shot at a drop). This is true at all the traditional champ spawns; it seems to be working properly in the new abyss spawns.

So, I hope bards get some benefit for the damage their do or accentuate though use of these new skills. Wouldn't hurt if the old spawns got fixed to work properly as well.

 

[Logrus]

I'll come back and correct if the formulas are off.
But basically for tribulation, at 120 Discord, you're bonus damage will be 60%.

So if say you are in doom gauntlet and using tribulation on a dark father.
If an archer hits the DF for 200 damage. If you're tribulation procs, you will hit the dark father for an 60% of that damage, so 120 physical.
The chance you have to trigger that damage out at 120 musicianship I think would be around 80%. (I'll have to check the exact math)

You could also be up beside him fighting and triggering the damage yourself.

All damage from tribulation is attributed to the bard.


A curse, a corpse skin, a bless. All are dispellable buffs/debuffs. The only way to remove the bard buff is to interrupt the bard directly.
The abilities mana cost grows linearly though the bonuses apply on a less linear scale. 1 Person with 20+ extra HP and periodic healing, is a nice thing.
Two people, one person and a pet that is alot of gain for 2 mana.

 

[Poo]

one thing that is screaming out at me is this.....

lets say your fighting a Dark Father and you slap one of the Dicord Mastery spell songs on him.
so now im getting some extra HP credit for what the other people in my party are doing.
which, and im being PG 13 here, makes my nipples hard!

but my question is this.
lets say there are 4 different bards in Doom at this time.
2 of which are in the same party
1 in another party
and one solo (thats probably me, im like that little yappy dog jumping back and forth around the bigger dog, what we gonna do now, what we gonna do now)

so can ALL the bards that are there slap the DF with the Tribulation spell and get the bonus's for and from their partys?

can the DF only take one spell at a time on?

i understand that the spells dont stack, but im wondering if the spell songs do.

im wondering this cause now with bards actually getting some fun stuff for helping out the group there are gonna be a L O T more bards playing.
and basically if your not the first bard to get your disco off on the DF..... well then your SOL.

and also, if your a 120 music and 120 disco bard and a 'lesser' bard gets his disco off on the mod can your 'higher' level disco go onto him or is it still like now where your stuck with the inferior disco on the mob?

 

[Poo]

basically are the new spellsongs like the samuri using honor.

if your not the first one to do it your SOL?

 

[yars]

poo is giving what i like to call "the woodstock scenario".too many bands at once i guess

 

[Luke Carjacker]

Thanks for the explanation about how the damage is credited. I'm excited to try out the skills in some real life and death situations.

I guess I'll request again that you reconsider having to choose just one mastery. Bards like to be bards. Not like Sosaria is overrun with bards (quite the opposite). I'm going to tell a big reason many are mad that you need to select just one skill is that they'd like to try them all in a variety of situations. Give us a chance to use each of the new skills without doing some silly quest over and over. Let us do our thing!

 

[Logrus]

For the offensive spellsongs its exactly like samurai honor. First tag wins.

 

[Luke Carjacker]

one thing that is screaming out at me is this.....

lets say your fighting a Dark Father and you slap one of the Dicord Mastery spell songs on him.
so now im getting some extra HP credit for what the other people in my party are doing.
which, and im being PG 13 here, makes my nipples hard!

Based on what we know now about the skill I think you can allow your nipples to go limp again. Unless you're in a party of at least, say 5 people, you'd be better off spending your points on something else rather than bard skills. You'll get a lot more mileage throwing chivalry & bushido on your archer than discord & music. Mysticism & focus will get you more damage credit on a mage.

So you're thinking, well what if I do regularly hunt doom with parties of 20 people, can I get credit for a percentage of all the damage they do (leaving out the fact that everyone would be bored silly and apathetic towards the rewards you get for hunting in such a large group)? Yes, it will be great for a few seconds while your mana holds out, but mana upkeep costs increase the more people you have so you'll be sidelined in a few moments. Again, I'm betting an abc archer, mystic mage or sampire will not only get credited for more damage, but do far more damage period.

 

[lycj]

We have purge magic in mysticism spell.

Is that possible to make it purgeable, and make it have a chance to break if curse is casted on the bard, so bards with lower/no magic resist will lose their mastery more.
Instead of break from taking damage or casting a spells?

My bard are warriors, with 25 mana. To be benefited at the current stage I can make his suit full LMC / MR, but thats the last thing I wanted to do.

I hope no matter if the plan is going to be changed or not, bard will get something this time, I remembered the last addition to bard was certain Samurai Empire monsters become unprovokable / undiscordable, that was few years ago, when treasure of tokuno taking place. We lived with it, but if you ask me, my bard would have zero interest to go to place with unprovokable / undiscordable monsters again.

 

[Logrus]

Actually if you're a bard not in a party and you ran tribulation on a dark father, you could grab a nice slayer and hammer away at him until you were interrupted, and for that duration you'd be stacking your damage along with a percentage of the damage being done by everyone else. So potentially if you sat back and did nothing, as it was suggested you may still get looting rights, but if say you ran in with enemy of one on you and a slayer before tagging the DF with tribulation, you'd probably be close to matching or exceeding any single templates damage output on the df.
(in theory, it will all depend on how often you are interrupted.)

 

[Pinco]

yes, DF has all res 30, but other bosses dont and the use of consacrate weapon is the base of the good damage, because a 60% extra damage when you did 10 is not really nice...

 

[Logrus]

Trib triggers of anyone's damage.
So you'll get the luck of the roll. Sometimes someone will hit for 200 and you'll get 60% of that, other times it may trigger off someone's 10 damage.

 

[Pinco]

yes this is good, but nowdays in doom we are 1 max 2 person... however, for a warrior could work, but if I'm a bard mage how can I use this bonus?

probably is better to get 30% and use this chance instead of have 60% and give only to the others the chance...

 

[Logrus]

As soon as i figure out how to not have the bard mage dropping instant nukes on everyone in the game by running tribulation, I'll let you know the best way for you to take advantage.
Maybe having tribulation only trigger off other people damage, or really reducing the chance to trigger by the bards damage. Still figuring it out.

The idea behind tribulation is a reverse party ability. Where most other abilities the bard helps himself and in turn helps the whole party, tribulation is the whole party helping the bard.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Trouble with that is;

1. If I'm triggering damage off multiple people and I get Blood Oathed I'm instantly dead. Especially likely as when the damage gets triggered I'll be getting bones thrown at me as well and be unable to heal without ending the effect.

and

2. Tribulation damage for yourself is REALLY low, I tried an AI spamming Necro/Dexxer with it and it was still fairly bad, plus you can only use it if you're a dexxer or Tamer, if you're a Mage you can't cast without ending the effect.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

As soon as i figure out how to not have the bard mage dropping instant nukes on everyone in the game by running tribulation, I'll let you know the best way for you to take advantage.

I don't see what you mean, it sounds like your combining a PvM and PvP issue, Tribulation in PvP would be like an extensive version of Spell Plague and like PvM its still going to be possible you'll just have to use a dexxer or pet.

 

[Pinco]

remember that: a bard mage will never be comparable to a real mage, because you cant focus your equipment to have high SDI and is almost hard to fit spellweaving, so the kind of char who are we speaking about is not a 90% SDI + slayer, it could be a 30% + slayer and a 60% extra damage againist high level critters is not that much... maybe it will be comparable to a real mage...

In pvp is different and we know that pvp balancement almost always shall kill pvm...

 

[Luke Carjacker]

Logrus, your replies thus far regarding how damage is attributed have all been about Tribulation. I'm starting to get a feel for the new skills, and your replies make sense.

As a follow-up question, will bards be credited with any of the damage bonuses that arise from the other mastery skills? For example, Inspire gives Damage increase of 40%, and SDI of 15%. Will the enhanced damage be credited to bards? Also, since, as I understand it, these songs only affect party members and again as I understand it damage is equally attributed among members of a party, does that mean it's not possible for bards to benefit from this?

I can understand why Bards would be credited with other buffs like Invigorate or Perseverance, as it parallels people who heal, rez and cast beneficial spells.

Thanks.

 

[Poo]

For the offensive spellsongs its exactly like samurai honor. First tag wins.

i died a little inside when i saw this.

i was hoping this would finally change.

nothing worse then going to some of the events over the last couple years and having some weak 110/110 discorder get a disco off before the big bards with 120/120 with slayers would get their lutes off.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

For the offensive spellsongs its exactly like samurai honor. First tag wins.

Does that only apply to multiple bards in a party?

Or does it mean if I'm there on my own without a party it will block it for me also?

 

[Poo]

from what he said i would say that first bard in wins. (either partied or non)

 

[Lefty]

In pvp is different and we know that pvp balancement almost always shall kill pvm...

A few examples?

 

[Garm The Green]

A few examples?

Ninjutsu, Necromancy, Bushido? Special moves with tactics tied as well...?