How does exceptional work?

[NuSair]

Let's say I have 90% to create an item and a 50% chance of that item being exceptional, is it-

A) Once the item is created, it is checked to be exception or not (so, out of 100 items, 45 will be exceptional (100*.9*.5)

or

B) When the item is created, 50% of all will be exceptional, meaing that out of 100 attempted items, 50 will be exceptional.


Main reason I am asking is this, I have a talisman that is +23/+23 and one that is +0/+27 (normal / exceptional bonus) and trying to decide which one is better to use when all I care about are the exceptional results.

 

[Barry Gibb]

It works as mentioned in Scenario A. The item's properties (exceptional and runic) are determined once the item is created. Scenario B would suggest that the items are predetermined and you are pulling them "out of a hat".

Talisman 1 (+23/+23):
Your success chance pushes to 100% and your exceptional chance goes to 73% (from 50%). You would end up with 27% of your items being normal, which you could then recycle.

Talisman 2 (+0/+27):
Your success chance remains the same, at 90%, and your exceptional chance goes to 77% (from 50%). You would end up with 23% of your items being normal, which you could then recycle. You would lose some materials due to failure.

If you are concerned about optimizing your material usage, it depends on how much you can recover when you recycle (you get a +1 material (ingot, cloth, leather) when you use a salvage bag) and how much materila is used for the item.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Basara]

No, Barry, you're wrong....

My testing has shown it to be scenario B.


The fact that it's "B" is most apparent if you put on a high-exceptional-bonus talisman without an accompanying normal bonus, and make smith items you are substantially less than 100% chance to make, with your smith skill being over 100.

Let's say the success chance is 60%
That makes the post-GM chance of exceptional 15%.
Add a +25% exceptional talisman.

If scenario A is true, in 100 attempts, you'd get 60 items on average, about 24 of which would be exceptional. (40% of 60)

If scenario B is true, in 100 attempts, you'd get 60 items, about 40 of which would be exceptional (40% of attempts, which is 2/3 of the actual successes).

In all my testing during FAQ creation, and in working on my skill gain guides training up 4 different smiths to 120, the scenario in B was shown.

The routine for item creation apparently generates one number, and checks that number against the success chance, as well as the exceptional chance (which is the base chance minus a number), simultaneously.

The coding would be something like
If "Success roll" <= "Creation chance":
----If "success roll" > than "Exceptional chance", make item;
--------Else Make Exceptional item.
----Else give failure error.

 

[Barry Gibb]

No, Barry, you're wrong....

My testing has shown it to be scenario B.

Trumped!!! I stand corrected.

Basara, does this work the same for the other crafting skills? Regarding blacksmithing successes use an ancinet smithy hammer along with a talisman to push my exceptional chance up to 100%, so I do not have to worry about this.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[NuSair]

Thanks guys!

It's for making the Woodland armor, I was trying to decide if material wise it is better to go with the +23/+23 or the +0/+27

 

[Basara]

It's the same for tailor and bowcraft, so I'd guess it's the same for all skills. However I'm not sure if other skills have faster accelerated exceptional chance gain from 95 to 100, the way that tailor and smith do (as prior to 95 the exceptional chance is success-60%).

As for the original poster's question, if you're not 100% success chance to create an item, you'd be better off with the Exceptional-only talisman, though the closer you get to 100% normal success chance, the benefit is reduced. It would have more of an apparent effect at the lower range of chance.

For example, at 60% chance of success (15% chance of exceptional) with a +27% exceptional talisman, you'll fail 40% of the time, but 70% of your successes will be exceptional. (an improvement from 25% to 70%, an improvement of 180%)

With the same example, but at 90% success chance (45% chance of exceptional), you get 10% failures, and 80% of your successes (72%/90%) are exceptional. That's an improvement from 50% to 80%. (a 60% increase in exceptional items)

With the salvage bag, the recovery of ingots with 100 mining an +3 or +5 mining gloves, the ingot recovery from smelting will eventually surpass the amounts saved by failing to make the item at all, as you approach 100% success.

On the other hand, as the Salvage bag doesn't work that way with tailor (and tailor tops out at 50% return), and other skills can't recycle at all, you almost want to fail to craft completely, if you don't make exceptional. This is especially true for making recipe bows.

 

[NuSair]

At GM carpentry, the woodland chest has a 70% success rate and a 25% exceptional rate. I have the Woodworking Bench (+5 skill, +5 success chance, +3 exceptional chance). So, with the +0/+27 talisman I should be at 75% success rate and 55% exceptional.

Which is the answer I was looking for.

Which in turn means that I should save materials in the long run.

 

[Harlequin]

Failing uses a lot less materials, so if you don't already have a 100% success chance, 0/27 will definitely save resources!