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That's exactly right and add Peerless and Champion Spawns to the list. The Dev Team really screwed up the game with Shame I don't care if you I see a 1000 posts about how great and wonderful shame is.
Why would you implement powerful items that are going to make virtually every other part of UO Obsolete?
Maybe they have an 18 year old kid putting in these items and making these decisions. There certainly wasn't ANY foresight and thought about how it might effect other systems in the game. Two thumbs down on Shame!
Look at all the other systems that are now obsolete after implementing the Shame: Doom, Peerless, Champion Spawns, Slasher and Osiredon...pretty much everything in the game.
The new producer Jeff is starting off worse the Calvin Crowner.
When I look back on UO in a couple of years if it's still around Shame is going to top the list as one of the worst things to ever happen to UO.
Prior to Shame there had been a hierarchy of items and balance which they managed to do away with in one patch.
Think of all the coding that went in to creating DOOM, High Seas, SA pretty much made obsoloete by one patch.
Shame on the Devs and every other idiot who think this adding in these type of items is good for UO.
D
DenAlton036
Guest
I dont remember the last time I looked at any loot UNTIL shame.. It was junk before.
That is also how i understand it Shame was just the first the rest of UO will follow
The cap is still the same so either way our old suits never will be outdated
Only alot easier to build new suits the 4/6 chiv dexxer suit is one i will try to make with the new stuff
The cap is still the same so either way our old suits never will be outdated
Only alot easier to build new suits the 4/6 chiv dexxer suit is one i will try to make with the new stuff
Thanks Madrid, as a player since 98 with a couple years off I thought it was only me that saw the problem with all the praise I read. I am certainly not a doomsayer but if the future allworld upgrade, upgrades the guardians of a level 2 map to what is in Shame then there is an additional problem as I have only gone as deep as lvl 3 flame and air elms, bah whatever, I hate WOW.
Apparently it's only the tip of the iceberg, the last patch spoilers clearly indicates they are preparing a whole revamp of the runic tools.
Well, why not, but I hope they have something in mind to boost the traditional artifacts... Noone was already using the artifact weapons before, and if nothing is done noone will use artifact armors and jewelry either.
Well, why not, but I hope they have something in mind to boost the traditional artifacts... Noone was already using the artifact weapons before, and if nothing is done noone will use artifact armors and jewelry either.
...
Shame is the start of a new paradigm in magic items in UO. Currently, we have basically a three-tiered item system in UO... Crafted (including normal, runic, and imbued items), Randomized Loot (standard "Magic Item" loot from monsters), and Artifact (Doom, Ilsh Paragons, ToT, ML, SA, etc). Any time one of these seems to become "better" than the other two, people complain.
When Artifacts became "the best", crafters complained and Runics were tweaked to provide better results, then later, they attempted to balance Artifacts and crafting by adding in Imbuing; the balance being that Artifacts could "break" item mod rules while Imbuing allowed for full customization.
This of course led to Loot items to be left behind due to the too-wide aspect of the values on various intensities and the wildness of mod pairing through the RNG.
Shame is the first step in correcting that problem. The intensity values are more "coarse" meaning that you won't see a Luck 1 ring in Shame and an effort has been made to make sure that complimentary mods appear with each other.
Of course in the process some mods got a little wonky in intensity values in the clean up and imbuing systems that led to a frenzy of grinding Shame for that purpose. Since this has since been fixed, the tide has swung the other way and people who saw Shame as amazing when it first released now believe it to be nerfed again.
However the revamp of Shame goes beyond simply item mods and to the challenge of the dungeon itself. The battles no longer are insta-kill one way or the other (well except for running into highly concentrated groups of Level 3 and deeper magic users), and the reward is more commensurate with the challenge.
The rest of the game is going to follow suit... give it time.
As for the "overpoweredness" of Shame loot... ehh... not really. If you're already sporting a carefully build imbued or artifact/imbued suit, chances are you're not going to find anything to replace what's been so carefully put together without spoiling the entire suit. However if you went in with a basic GM made suit and whatever weapon, chances are you'll find something to build upon in there.
Yes, there are some amazingly crazy mods to be found... but it's very rare to find the ones that don't have that "yeah, but..." issue... usually Brittle/Cannot Be Repaired.
Shame is the start of a new paradigm in magic items in UO. Currently, we have basically a three-tiered item system in UO... Crafted (including normal, runic, and imbued items), Randomized Loot (standard "Magic Item" loot from monsters), and Artifact (Doom, Ilsh Paragons, ToT, ML, SA, etc). Any time one of these seems to become "better" than the other two, people complain.
When Artifacts became "the best", crafters complained and Runics were tweaked to provide better results, then later, they attempted to balance Artifacts and crafting by adding in Imbuing; the balance being that Artifacts could "break" item mod rules while Imbuing allowed for full customization.
This of course led to Loot items to be left behind due to the too-wide aspect of the values on various intensities and the wildness of mod pairing through the RNG.
Shame is the first step in correcting that problem. The intensity values are more "coarse" meaning that you won't see a Luck 1 ring in Shame and an effort has been made to make sure that complimentary mods appear with each other.
Of course in the process some mods got a little wonky in intensity values in the clean up and imbuing systems that led to a frenzy of grinding Shame for that purpose. Since this has since been fixed, the tide has swung the other way and people who saw Shame as amazing when it first released now believe it to be nerfed again.
However the revamp of Shame goes beyond simply item mods and to the challenge of the dungeon itself. The battles no longer are insta-kill one way or the other (well except for running into highly concentrated groups of Level 3 and deeper magic users), and the reward is more commensurate with the challenge.
The rest of the game is going to follow suit... give it time.
As for the "overpoweredness" of Shame loot... ehh... not really. If you're already sporting a carefully build imbued or artifact/imbued suit, chances are you're not going to find anything to replace what's been so carefully put together without spoiling the entire suit. However if you went in with a basic GM made suit and whatever weapon, chances are you'll find something to build upon in there.
Yes, there are some amazingly crazy mods to be found... but it's very rare to find the ones that don't have that "yeah, but..." issue... usually Brittle/Cannot Be Repaired.
wow Madrid, are you serious?
I guess you were one of the people who absolutely hated loot the way it was before Age of Shadows weren't you?
As far as things going obsolete, it happens in every mmo... World of Warcraft is the best example, every year or year & a half they release a new expansion that makes EVERYTHING beforehand completely obsolete for people trying to enjoy the end game. It just happens, if you want an rpg that has things that don't go obsolete, I highly suggest you go play a single player RPG that will never be updated.
I guess you were one of the people who absolutely hated loot the way it was before Age of Shadows weren't you?
As far as things going obsolete, it happens in every mmo... World of Warcraft is the best example, every year or year & a half they release a new expansion that makes EVERYTHING beforehand completely obsolete for people trying to enjoy the end game. It just happens, if you want an rpg that has things that don't go obsolete, I highly suggest you go play a single player RPG that will never be updated.
It is really nice to see that Uo is becomming even more item based than before.
Hmm.
But isn't producing a product that people want to buy usually considered good for companies?
I am the last person to not look at the Shame items and think "wow, that's a pretty sick item."
But I also recognize that what looks useful may not look as useful some years down the road.
Especially if it is cursed and, say, a lich, balron, or PK loots it.
For the game to become more item-based, there would have to be a major underlying change in that direction in how the game works, and there has not been.
All that's going on now is there's a new way to get at the caps.
I'll stop there I guess.
-Galen's player
I'm the last person to think that something is good merely because it is popular.
But isn't producing a product that people want to buy usually considered good for companies?
Every time something new comes out that has good loot, this statement, or a close variant on it, is made by someone. After things calm down a bit people look again and think "hey, that's not bad."
I am the last person to not look at the Shame items and think "wow, that's a pretty sick item."
But I also recognize that what looks useful may not look as useful some years down the road.
Especially if it is cursed and, say, a lich, balron, or PK loots it.
This statement is unsupported by reality.
For the game to become more item-based, there would have to be a major underlying change in that direction in how the game works, and there has not been.
All that's going on now is there's a new way to get at the caps.
You mean all the coding that was criticized for not being all that hard to do and for being buggy and the like? And you mean the criticisms for Doom as killing any other dungeon, SA for killing Doom through Imbuing, and High Seas for killing Imbuing and Doom yet again by making new bosses with, shall we say, interesting loot?
I'll stop there I guess.
-Galen's player
...
I've said it before and I'll say it again... if you came into an MMO expecting it to never change, yo not only found the wrong game, you've found the wrong GENRE of games. MMOs by nature evolve and become new within themselves without the need for sequels or a series of the same titled game.
I've said it before and I'll say it again... if you came into an MMO expecting it to never change, yo not only found the wrong game, you've found the wrong GENRE of games. MMOs by nature evolve and become new within themselves without the need for sequels or a series of the same titled game.
There is nothing truely new added to UO ever. Basicly all that is ever done to the game is new loot is added that you eventually need just to do the things you were already doing before. Look at luck suits. Luck is just a shortcut for trying to balance monsters against character/item uberness. Instead of doing anything neat with monster AI they just put out an incentive to make your character weaker. Luck also makes hunting in Fel basicly non existant for the most part. The only point of going to Fel Shame to hunt is loot. Its not like they added anything but recolored and renamed existing monsters with more hp. Why go to Fel shame to hunt in a luck suit? The best you can hope to do against a player attack is survive in a luck suit. Just another way EA has screwed Fel over. Champ spawns have been the only worthwhile way to make a living in Fell since AOS came out and at this point noone even really cares about them any more because everyone has had thier chars scrolled out for ages now. The definition of insanity is something to the extent of "repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result" and well the things that have been added to the game have been repeated over and over.
I think the OP is totally incorrect. I, and every person I know, has found at best 2 items that have been worthy of replacing in a suit. At best the combinations that this stuff comes with makes for a very annoying time trying to find something that makes sense but it has added a much needed new thing to do. With the exception of PvP this game has got to be very dull and this is a much needed change of pace.
AH!!! The I hate the new shame changes comments.....
The new changes were needed to bring life to dungeons that are hardly visted anymore.
Look at it this way..... eventually other dungeons will be changed
Plus it could be possibly called a mini expansion of AoS revisted on steroids
I am not complaining about it because it was time to give fel and tram some focus to catch up with other expansions that were added afterwards. Just be glad your not being charged for it.....oops I said that out loud
The new changes were needed to bring life to dungeons that are hardly visted anymore.
Look at it this way..... eventually other dungeons will be changed
Plus it could be possibly called a mini expansion of AoS revisted on steroids
I am not complaining about it because it was time to give fel and tram some focus to catch up with other expansions that were added afterwards. Just be glad your not being charged for it.....oops I said that out loud
WoW is absolutely the perfect example, every expansion and quite a bit of patches that come out for it, makes you replace the gear you spent days/weeks to get from non-soloable instances/raids And they give you this new gear in the first few easy & soloable quests.
Makes you feel like you've completely wasted your time trying to get the "good" stuff.
In UO Most of these items are still useful, I mean how much harder would these mobs in Shame be, if we didnt have the imbued items we have now?
IMO you should ALWAYS have a chance to get something better from a mob in loot, than something you can craft (Unless the Crafted item requires resources from the mobs that drop such items) like Peerlesses drop ingredients for crafted artifacts, Other craftables like what we have now,
should just be something to get you started as far as being able to kill these new mobs efficiently. Crafting will always have a place in UO especially with imbuing.
If adding luck to your siut makes your char that much weaker, you need to build a better siut...
Champ spawns came out Before AoS, however I do agree, there needs to be another or more real incentives to go to fel.
lolz, What MMO or game for that matter is different?
L
longshanks
Guest
i disagree with the orig poster here. other peerless and spawns remain worth doing. lets take a glance, aside from scrolls:
rat spawn. +4 intell boots command 18 mln gold on chessy
semidar: sash and glad collar
undead: cap johns hat
rikktor: sash
spider: well he's right here
peerless: crimmy, swamp drag, crys ring
oaks: water rock
doom: orny
corgul: best place to get pinks, dci sash
so i still think there is value here.
bottom line is EA still supports this old, quirky, retro game. Even with the turnover in staff much content was added this year.
Im not saying all things are perfect, just saying that things are not as bad as your stating.
merry christmas.
rat spawn. +4 intell boots command 18 mln gold on chessy
semidar: sash and glad collar
undead: cap johns hat
rikktor: sash
spider: well he's right here
peerless: crimmy, swamp drag, crys ring
oaks: water rock
doom: orny
corgul: best place to get pinks, dci sash
so i still think there is value here.
bottom line is EA still supports this old, quirky, retro game. Even with the turnover in staff much content was added this year.
Im not saying all things are perfect, just saying that things are not as bad as your stating.
merry christmas.
Ok am I the only one here thinking "What the hell, people are complaining about having to actually play UO?". I've had a look at the new shame changes, and while I'm not too interested at the moment due to having all my toon's suited out already. For those who havent and for those new players we sometimes see, they have a way of getting some suits that are effective within a week or two of playing the game rather than items costing the earth.
I'm excited at the upcoming changes and I can just imagine that these changes could be of great help towards the new player expance options in the near future. What I would like to see is the random mobs you see out and about having these changes too.
Reminds me a nit of AoS release.
I'm excited at the upcoming changes and I can just imagine that these changes could be of great help towards the new player expance options in the near future. What I would like to see is the random mobs you see out and about having these changes too.
Reminds me a nit of AoS release.
Being that UO is a skill based rather than level based system- that was pretty much the only direction it had to go.
I think the changes are better then the same loot system we've had for ages.
All things being relative though, Blood elly hp went from 369 up to now 2600+ Health. Yet some think these new weapons are "to much" if not cursed/brittle/cannot repair. Our life bar is still the same hp. Not much room for mistakes with these triple spell casting ellies (ebolt/flamestrike/explosion). And we are not even to upgraded lichelords, dragons etc yet.
A telling sign for me with this new loot that unless it's a ring/braclet/maybe a shield, no one is wearing the new loot practically. Open up paperdolls n check it out. Majority I see is still exceptional crafted with runics.
People want their "customized suits" to live forever so they decry anything new and more powerfull even though the mobs are getting big buffs.
If the issue is pvp, then maybe when you go to fel from here out, no insurance.. bam.
All things being relative though, Blood elly hp went from 369 up to now 2600+ Health. Yet some think these new weapons are "to much" if not cursed/brittle/cannot repair. Our life bar is still the same hp. Not much room for mistakes with these triple spell casting ellies (ebolt/flamestrike/explosion). And we are not even to upgraded lichelords, dragons etc yet.
A telling sign for me with this new loot that unless it's a ring/braclet/maybe a shield, no one is wearing the new loot practically. Open up paperdolls n check it out. Majority I see is still exceptional crafted with runics.
People want their "customized suits" to live forever so they decry anything new and more powerfull even though the mobs are getting big buffs.
If the issue is pvp, then maybe when you go to fel from here out, no insurance.. bam.
Ok, so your saying that in an item based game, that a luck suit is not going to make you weaker against other players? There are about 14 pieces in a suit. Armor,jewels,weap,shield,boots,aprons,capes, talis etc. depending on how many pieces have luck, thats 1 less mod PER PIECE. Just as an example, say you have 10 of those peices with luck. Say you are a dexer, thats 80 mana/stam less just right there and its not neccessarily just stats. Your likely to be lower in any combination of hci,dci,fc/fcr,skillpoints etc. Against monsters its no big deal. Try it against players with a maxed out suit tho. Right off the bat your dice rolls, hp, swing speed, casting speed, mana pool etc are going to be lower.
I like Shame, maybe too much... but the items are 99.5% crap save the relic frags and essence.
It's like playing the lottery...someone has to win.
Cya down there!
It's like playing the lottery...someone has to win.
Cya down there!
This is my biggest fear. Revamping dungeons that have tameables will be very bad.
I guess I don't see the game as item based as some people, I think of it as, (If everyone has the same items, it becomes Skill based).
Even still UO is probably the most non-item-based MMO out there (Atleast that I've played).
I never said it wouldn't weaken your siut, but you don't NEED Every stat you have on a non-luck siut to beat someone else if they find you wearing a siut with luck on it.
Luck only takes 1 mod... remove the mod you feel is least important and replace it with luck if you want it that bad.
Its more so the templates and tactics (not the skill) in all honesty, more than likely one is not going to go down in fel shame on a discord tamer with a greater dragon to farm mobs, and expect to defend/kill a pvp character.
I go to fel shame often on my provoke/discorder Often (no eval int)
in a 1810 luck siut (not wearing 80 luck sandals) and only 10 hpi
If someone attacks me i just provoke mobs on them and mind-blast & poison them down resists in this siut 60/70/58/65/70 (no one pvps with chiv anymore & rarely a necro-mage)
I also use swords of prosperity (-0 magery) so that I have a chance for dexers to miss me if anyone happens to come down.
I play on LS btw =D .
Seems no one like my comment, but they are all right... when you can wear a cleanup suit and hardly be killed thats pure skill.
I appreciate a reason to actually go to Shame again... you know besides with Mr. Sticky Fingers....
I applaud their efforts in this, I see this evolving and being dynamic for awhile during the "shake out" period.
When the dust settles and you are still crying, then can I have your stuff?
I applaud their efforts in this, I see this evolving and being dynamic for awhile during the "shake out" period.
When the dust settles and you are still crying, then can I have your stuff?
It seems it has not dawned on you that shame is only the first step in an overhall...so be patient.
Why did this thread even continue past this post?
In the meantime, since it ain't worth it to do, for example, treasure Maps any longer (because of Shame loot, that is....), and since changing the loot tables for all of the game will take time, can we at the very least get a Book to store up tattered treasure Maps?
I mean, we got a Book for SOTs with the Christmas gifts, right ?
Then perhaps it would be helpfull if we could at least get a container to store all those Treasure Maps we find hunting which we will not touch, because of Shame, that is.........
Well, but when going to Shame is pretty much the only thing worth doing in the game other than resources gathering, because of so much stress nowadays put on items, rather than skills, this "might" make the game less interesting and less varied, doesn't it ?
Personally, I would "ease up" the stress on items and modifiers and make "real" skills more important when playing the game.........
That is, shift the balance away from item based and more onto skill based........
I like that now there is a point to looking at monster loot (in shame),
However,
I think they made it a little wacky with all mods spawning on all things. I'd have prefered just better monster loot, unimbueable. But none of these wacky mods that you can't normally imbue.
So you had a good chance of getting something better than can be imbued, but then not a lot better. Just a little.
However,
I think they made it a little wacky with all mods spawning on all things. I'd have prefered just better monster loot, unimbueable. But none of these wacky mods that you can't normally imbue.
So you had a good chance of getting something better than can be imbued, but then not a lot better. Just a little.
I like the new loot, but there needs to be a way to get items with just one or two mods. I used to collect jewelry with just FC1. I don't think it is possible to get a basic FC1 ring or brace in the new system. It's stuff like this that needs to be looked at. Also, they increased all of the item caps except FC... We should be able to get FC2 on an item.
Why not create a separate thread for this different topic?
Am I the only one who thinks that the stuff in Shame is all crap worth nothing but a few relic frags?
I'm sorry but I fail to see the big hoopla... to me the stuff I can imbue is FAR better than 90% of the garbage that comes from shame.
I don't need to build my suit around crap that is going to break in a few uses.... nor am I building my suit around crap that's cursed... I have no intention of going into some fight to have to worry about losing half my suit.
The only good change to come of it is making the spawn more interesting.
I'm sorry but I fail to see the big hoopla... to me the stuff I can imbue is FAR better than 90% of the garbage that comes from shame.
I don't need to build my suit around crap that is going to break in a few uses.... nor am I building my suit around crap that's cursed... I have no intention of going into some fight to have to worry about losing half my suit.
The only good change to come of it is making the spawn more interesting.
That is exactly why I returned to UO from WOW, they let out that the cap was being raised yet again and all my pvp and pvm gear would become worthless after spending all my time just to get it. I understand what everyone is saying, I just dont want to be in game just to get my next set of gear like in WOW.
Agreed. As soon as imbueing came out..I sorted out the best of the best b-kit armor I had...unraveled the rest. I make all of my stuff now days with imbueing. So much easier and cheaper than looking for days and days at the monsters. Now about the only monsters I fight are ones that I want the high end drop they occasionally drop.
Just kill easier mobs and/or wear less luck and you will get single mod pieces often with max intensity. I've been doing this since day one and making a killing imbuing them and selling.
J
Jonathan Baron
Guest
Took a break for a few weeks and returned the other day....first stop, Atlantic, Luna, and the first vendor I saw named for today's date. Full of Shame items...some going for as much as 50 mil, just like Orc ships shortly after High Seas....just like many things. And, predictably, I found many items with similar drop jaw properties on other shards for a tenth the price. Crazy money on Atlantic driven by peer pressure. They're a bit more honest about it on Europa. Phrases like, "Perfect for bank sitting" find their way into seller descriptions on that marvelous shard.
Most interesting is comparing the value placed on items to what developers thought they were worth in their major and lesser item labels. Shows that they haven't fully dialed into the power of the items they've created.
The fact that I got good and pissed off at all the items with SSI, remembering all the bleeping turquoise I had to burn to get some on a ring reminded me that I still care A LOT about this game. That's how you know you're still in love with an MMO: it makes you angry.
Interesting name for the dungeon they picked for this, don't you think?
My only serious complaint is the one that makes me need frequent breaks from UO. While all manner of new item systems, along with bewildering fresh properties like Soul Charges and Battle Lust enter the scene, I strive to imagine the brave new player entering one of these splendid new dungeons equipped with Jockles Quicksword, Bulwark Leggings, that kite shield with the French name, and The Healers Touch.
In short, New Haven should be and should have been first on the list for an upgrade and not just gear. I can't help but believe the game's chief problem is its impenetrability for new players. What better testimony do you need than the poor guy working those horrid champ spawns but can't sell his scrolls? And on Europa the castles' ramparts are lined with character statues but I wonder if there are ever more than 30 players logged on and playing at any one time.
New phat lewt ain't the problem. Rather it all has the insane feel of an argument over a new kitchen in a condemned building.
-
Most interesting is comparing the value placed on items to what developers thought they were worth in their major and lesser item labels. Shows that they haven't fully dialed into the power of the items they've created.
The fact that I got good and pissed off at all the items with SSI, remembering all the bleeping turquoise I had to burn to get some on a ring reminded me that I still care A LOT about this game. That's how you know you're still in love with an MMO: it makes you angry.
Interesting name for the dungeon they picked for this, don't you think?
My only serious complaint is the one that makes me need frequent breaks from UO. While all manner of new item systems, along with bewildering fresh properties like Soul Charges and Battle Lust enter the scene, I strive to imagine the brave new player entering one of these splendid new dungeons equipped with Jockles Quicksword, Bulwark Leggings, that kite shield with the French name, and The Healers Touch.
In short, New Haven should be and should have been first on the list for an upgrade and not just gear. I can't help but believe the game's chief problem is its impenetrability for new players. What better testimony do you need than the poor guy working those horrid champ spawns but can't sell his scrolls? And on Europa the castles' ramparts are lined with character statues but I wonder if there are ever more than 30 players logged on and playing at any one time.
New phat lewt ain't the problem. Rather it all has the insane feel of an argument over a new kitchen in a condemned building.
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Have you seen a FC1 ring or bracelet in Shame with no other mods since pub 73.2 went live? I haven't. My only worry is that once this system goes shardwide some of these basic pieces, which are perfect for imbuing, might not be available any longer.
I was under the impression that this loot system was just going in the dungeons. Honestly- I really don't want to think about this loot system implemented on t-hunting. Then having luck matter on a template that really doesn't care about armor anyway (well, depending on how you play it). I'd have my mapper opening level 6s and 7s all day with a max luck suit.
I am finding it a bit frustrating farming the "higher" end stuff and seeming to never get anything that isn't cursed or useless. IMO the only stuff that seems to be worth hunting are the plain blood ele's and similar ranged. Unbound and chaos vortex or the silly blood's all give amazing stuff that never seems to work. Anyone else find this?
Yes, however there is potential to get "godlike" items from the higher end mobs, But there are disadvantage rolls for Each property on the item.
(Its still possible to find "Legendary Artifacts" without ANY Negative properties)
This applies for luck as well, the more luck you have, the better the items can be when they drop, However the better the item is adds a greater chance of it being Cursed, Brittle, Cannot be Repaired and or -100 luck.
It balances out the loot tables through each level/mob difficulty pretty well Imo, it may be a little Too rare. but making it Too common to get these amazing items without negative properties would be far worse...
T
tiggertessa2007
Guest
^^^^^ what they said!
...
What were the resists on the hat... probably pretty crazy. Usually if an armor piece has all the negatives, and no "extra mods", the resists are going to be nuts.
What were the resists on the hat... probably pretty crazy. Usually if an armor piece has all the negatives, and no "extra mods", the resists are going to be nuts.