Hit Lower Defense and Hit Lower Attack At The Same Time?...

[SoulWeaver]

Hello, I was just informed of a few people opinion on these to properties. I want to clear things up and know the truth.

Now the question is a Weapon with Hit Lower Defense and Hit Lower attack. If you are attacking someone can both properties effect the person at the same time. So Say you hit them you lower there defense and lower there attack do they cancel each other out so you can only lower the person defense or only lower there attack or can both of these special attacks from your weapon go on the person so you've both Lowered there defense and lowered there attack chance.

If your confused about what I mean let me know I'll try and break it down so people can understand it easier. My friends have told me that if you hit someone with hit lower defenses then your next hit lowers there attack the hit lower defense is now cancelled. Please if any admins, gms, or E.A. people know the truth about this please post.

 

[Setnaffa]

Yes. If you have both on your weapon or armor (i.e. Mace and Shields) you can hit your opponent with both at the same time. Like just about anything in the game, you can try it out on TC. I did, and they were both in effect at the same time.

 

[Theo_GL]

Hello, I was just informed of a few people opinion on these to properties. I want to clear things up and know the truth.

Now the question is a Weapon with Hit Lower Defense and Hit Lower attack. If you are attacking someone can both properties effect the person at the same time. So Say you hit them you lower there defense and lower there attack do they cancel each other out so you can only lower the person defense or only lower there attack or can both of these special attacks from your weapon go on the person so you've both Lowered there defense and lowered there attack chance.

If your confused about what I mean let me know I'll try and break it down so people can understand it easier. My friends have told me that if you hit someone with hit lower defenses then your next hit lowers there attack the hit lower defense is now cancelled. Please if any admins, gms, or E.A. people know the truth about this please post.

I don't understand how they can 'cancel each other out' since they are two different modifiers.

Hit Lower Defense means that your opponent loses points on his 'defense' roll meaning you have a higher chance of actually hitting him with your offensive swing.

Hit Lower Attack means that when he attacks you - his attack chance will be lowered so he has a lower chance of hitting you.

Two different mods - two different uses. One affects you hitting him, one affects him hitting you.

 

[SoulWeaver]

I understand thats how I took it but my friends that are greatly into PvP... say that once you hit them with lower defense... in that mod goes into effect if you hit them with lower attack it will cancel the hit lower defense... Does it make much sense no but there are flaws in this game as you all know i just wanted to someone from E.A to clear it up possibly.

 

[Dexdash]

i belive there was an fof on this. if ny memory serves 1 char can be under the effects of both but they do not go off on the same swing. so you would have to hit some one twice for that to happen

 

[Setnaffa]

i belive there was an fof on this. if ny memory serves 1 char can be under the effects of both but they do not go off on the same swing. so you would have to hit some one twice for that to happen

According to the April 4, 2008 FoF, all three leeches can hit on the same swing, so I'd assume both HLA and HLD can also. I'll try it on TC. I have a weapon with HLD 50% and HLA 48%, so it shouldn't take long to validate.

Update: I just verified both can hit your opponent on the same swing. I love TC!!!

 

[athlon]

To expand on this thread, how much is their 'attack' or 'defense' weakened?

If my wep has 40% HLA and my suit has 70% HLD:

- if HLA goes off, does that mean the creature has a 40% less chance of hitting me on his next hit? Or is it just a 40% chance that it goes off, and the creature has some built in % chance less next hit?

- If HLD goes off, does that mean i have a 70% better chance the swing it goes off on of hitting the creature? Or is it a 70% chance of going off, then a set number that represents the chance that i more easily hit the creature?!?!?

I am confused. Setneffa, you know the warrior mods pretty well, help a tamer out!

 

[Setnaffa]

If my wep has 40% HLA and my suit has 70% HLD:

- if HLA goes off, does that mean the creature has a 40% less chance of hitting me on his next hit? Or is it just a 40% chance that it goes off, and the creature has some built in % chance less next hit?

- If HLD goes off, does that mean i have a 70% better chance the swing it goes off on of hitting the creature? Or is it a 70% chance of going off, then a set number that represents the chance that i more easily hit the creature?!?!?

OK. Now this information is already available at http://uo.stratics.com/content/arms-armor/itemproperties.php#hld

The equation for hitting somebody is
Hit Chance% = ( ( [Attacker's Combat Ability + 20] * [100% + Attacker's Hit Chance Increase] ) divided by
( [Defender's Combat Ability + 20] * [100% + Defender's Defense Chance Increase] * 2 ) ) * 100

SO if your opponent's DCI or HCI is lowered by 25 (and they both can go negative), you can see how the equation would change.

 

[athlon]

According to the April 4, 2008 FoF, all three leeches can hit on the same swing, so I'd assume both HLA and HLD can also. I'll try it on TC. I have a weapon with HLD 50% and HLA 48%, so it shouldn't take long to validate.

Update: I just verified both can hit your opponent on the same swing. I love TC!!!

Setneffa, how do you take your weopon to test center?

Also, how do you verify that this is actually working? Is there a stat on the paperdoll or something that shows your percent chance to hit each swing, and your opponents percent chance to hit you each swing, that i am missing?

 

[Setnaffa]

Setneffa, how do you take your weopon to test center?

Also, how do you verify that this is actually working? Is there a stat on the paperdoll or something that shows your percent chance to hit each swing, and your opponents percent chance to hit you each swing, that i am missing?

You don't take a weapon to TC. You craft one there. You have 30,000 uses of a Val Hammer. You just make a Legendary Smith (I believe set blacksmith 1200 is the command) and keep hammering away until you get the weapon you want. Your characters show their stats when you hover the mouse over them in 2D and you can always see your character's stats in KR.

I have 2 accounts, so one is the "victim" and one is the attacker.

 

[athlon]

You don't take a weapon to TC. You craft one there. You have 30,000 uses of a Val Hammer. You just make a Legendary Smith (I believe set blacksmith 1200is the command) and keep hammering away until you get the weapon you want. Your characters show their stats when you hover the mouse over them in 2D and you can always see your character's stats in KR.

I have 2 accounts, so one is the "victim" and one is the attacker.

Appreciate Set - one more dumb question while im a roll (and thanks for link, im crafting a spreadsheet with the formula and am going to tinker).....

It says the effect lasts 5 - 10 secs - which one is it, or what is it based on, or is it just 'random' between 5 and 10 each time?

 

[Setnaffa]

It appears to be random from 5 to 10 seconds.

 

[athlon]

Ok Setneffa, i just created the formula in excel, and i 'think' their may be an error.......

I used the dreadhorn for an example......

I have 120 swords, and 45 HCI.

Dreadhorn has 95 Wrestle and 0 DCI.

That give me an 88% chance to hit according to my spreadsheet (which may be accurate, but i seem to whiff more than 12% of the time?!?!?! without using lightning strike, seems i hit Dreadhorn maybe 65-75% of time)

But here is where the problem lies.....

If i use Hit Lower Defense of 25, that takes the Dreadhorns DCI down to -.25 (which negative can me used according to you) - if that is the case, then that means that i would hit the Dreadhorn 117.7% of the time (which means that i would NEVER miss).

Is this accurate? If true, that means HLD and HLA are MUCH more important than i ever thought they were?!?!?! That means i just may dump my darkwood suit and put together another suit with as much HCI, HLD (meaning i hit EVERY swing) and DCI and HLA!

 

[silent]

I really thought hit lower attack lowered the damage output of the target. I could have sworn when I was hitting something in the past the amount of damage being done to me on a given hit was reduced when HLA was in effect.

 

[SoulWeaver]

I really thought hit lower attack lowered the damage output of the target. I could have sworn when I was hitting something in the past the amount of damage being done to me on a given hit was reduced when HLA was in effect.

Hit lower defense lowers the persons DCI...

Hit lower attack lowers the person HCI

Now the question isn't if these two hit can go off at the same time. It is can they both be effective on the person at the same time.... or does only one take effect. I understand u can lower a person defenses and lower person attack in one swing....

But what my friends that are very pvp informative are saying is that if you get the Hit Lower Defense Off then the next swing or even the same swing say the Hit Lower attack goes on after the hit lower defense... The Timer that the hit lower defense has cancels and goes away and the hit lower attack starts untill you either hit him again with HLD then the hla cancels or hit him again with HLA then that timer starts again...

 

[SoulWeaver]

To expand on this thread, how much is their 'attack' or 'defense' weakened?

If my wep has 40% HLA and my suit has 70% HLD:

- if HLA goes off, does that mean the creature has a 40% less chance of hitting me on his next hit? Or is it just a 40% chance that it goes off, and the creature has some built in % chance less next hit?

- If HLD goes off, does that mean i have a 70% better chance the swing it goes off on of hitting the creature? Or is it a 70% chance of going off, then a set number that represents the chance that i more easily hit the creature?!?!?

I am confused. Setneffa, you know the warrior mods pretty well, help a tamer out!

Just to inform you HLD is capped ou at 50%...

So if you have 40 HLD on ur WEP and 30 on the glases its capping out 50% so its a waste of 20% HLD ur better off going with the folded steel glasses for 15% DCI... just to let you know.

 

[Hildebrand]

You mean 30% HLD on the Mace&Shield.
On a FoF they said that it doesn't stack like that. 40% + 30% does not make you 50%. It's a chance on the 40 and THEN another chance on the 30%. There's a formula for figuring the average. Basically, you get two chances at the HLD.

 

[SoulWeaver]

You mean 30% HLD on the Mace&Shield.
On a FoF they said that it doesn't stack like that. 40% + 30% does not make you 50%. It's a chance on the 40 and THEN another chance on the 30%. There's a formula for figuring the average. Basically, you get two chances at the HLD.

Is that how it is... i thought thats what it was before but everyone was tellen me that i was wrong sons of a Bit$##! How can I ask FoF the question about the HLD/HLA cancelling each other out, so maybe they can do some research and post the truth.

 

[athlon]

Is that how it is... i thought thats what it was before but everyone was tellen me that i was wrong sons of a Bit$##! How can I ask FoF the question about the HLD/HLA cancelling each other out, so maybe they can do some research and post the truth.

Here is a link to ask a FOF question: http://www.uoherald.com/feedback/index.php

Can you not only ask that, but ask a detail of both HLA and HLD and how they work, what their cap is, if HLD goes off, can it take the creature to a negative -.25 in defense value in the 'to hit' formula etc......

Basically, as i stated above - if something has 100 wrestle, and you have 120 skill and +45% HCI and your HLD goes off, YOU HAVE 100% CHANCE OF HITTING THEM! That is huge, and i would definately change my suit to get HLD on it.

That will clear alot up for us.

 

[Setnaffa]

You mean 30% HLD on the Mace&Shield.
On a FoF they said that it doesn't stack like that. 40% + 30% does not make you 50%. It's a chance on the 40 and THEN another chance on the 30%. There's a formula for figuring the average. Basically, you get two chances at the HLD.

If you are going to make a statement about something in a FoF, do us all a favor and find the FoF and place a link to it in your post.

I went back a year on the FoF's and the closest I could find was this from the June 15, 2007 FoF:

"Do multiple successful hits with Hit Lower Attack or Hit Lower Defense stack? (Can I effectively reduce their defense / attack chance to 0?)
No, the effect does not stack (it will reset the duration, though.)

If two people with Hit Lower Defense / Attack strike simultaneously, is the effect stacked?
No, the effect does not stack.

Do other attackers get the same benefit from hit lower defense?"
Yes, the effect is global, not specific to that particular attacker.

I read these comments to mean...
1) Nobody can be under the influence of multiple HLD's or HLA's, though nothing says you cannot be effected by HLD and HLA at the same time.
2) If you are under the influence of HLD or HLA and you are hit with it again, the 5-10 second timer restarts.
3) Once you are hit with HLD or HLA, anyone hitting you gets the benefit.

I found this in the May 18, 2007 Fof:

"One last question on Hit Lower Defense and Attack. How long do these effects last?"
Wilki got me these:

Hit Lower Attack’s duration is 10 seconds
Hit Lower Defense’s duration is 8 seconds

From the February 23, 2007 FoF:

"The maximum attainable HLD% is 80%. Do the effects stop before 80%, or is there currently no hardcap on HLD%?"
There is no cap for Hit Lower Defense or Hit Lower Attack.

Remember, the percentage on these abilities is the chance that the effect will fire each hit. So if you have two items, one with a 30% chance and one with a 50% chance, then that’s a 65% chance that the effect will fire on any given hit. (The percentages are multiplied, rather than added.) The actual lower attack/defense percentage is ALWAYS -25%.

 

[athlon]

Great, great research Setnaffa.

I beleive after your digging, the only outstanding question is if HLD goes off, does a creatures DCI go to -.25 in that formula. Because if it does, that gives a 100% chance to hit any creature that has wrestling of 115 or lower.

(given that you have 120 skill and 45% HCI)

I beleive a LONG time ago, one of the devs said that you can never have a 100% chance of hitting - i beleive it was capped at 99% (or maybe im thinking of another game?).

 

[mmmbeer]

yes they can go off at same time. mebe not!?!

hla lowers the targets hci ...
hld lowers the targets dci ...
i think they take hci/dci from 45 to 25 when struck

 

[SoulWeaver]

Yeah im talking about PvP wise though for the hld and hla. Good research by the way...

Answers everything about HLD and HLA but my only question about it cancelling each other out when one or the other go off. Thanks for the other helpful information though.