Hit Fireball Vs Hit Lightning

[Val-Tur]

I am imbuing a 100% fire weapon for single targets (not a spawn weapon). This is not a weapon made for a particular boss. It is for groups of mobs like undead, etc. As a damage proc, I am going to put either hit lightning or hit fireball on it.

Hit lightning base damage is 30-34. Hit fireball base damage is 12-32. *Normalizing* hit lightning vs hit fireball for mobs with +10 more pts of energy resist gives adjusted base damages of HL 20-24 vs HFB 12-32. For +15 pts of energy resist 15-19 vs 12-32 HFB. A lot of normal mobs that have FR as the weakness have 10pts or more higher energy resist. Even quite a few named fall into this category. But there are always exceptions on several named mobs & a few normal ones. For mobs with +15 more energy resist, HFB is better & it is not 100% clear that for +10 more energy resist which is the best (flip a coin). Overall, it seems HFB would be a better choice.

Which damage hit proc (if any) do you guys use on your fire weapons?

 

[Quickblade]

if you hit at fastest rate ( 1,25 s per hit ) fireball will overlap and fizzles itself I beleive, I suggest you hit lightning then

 

[Maximus Neximus]

Which damage hit proc (if any) do you guys use on your fire weapons?

I suggest neither. Go with hit fire area.

 

[celticus]

I suggest neither. Go with hit fire area.

But he said singe target..Maybe he does not want to aggro other mobs in the area?

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Like Quickblade said, if you hit every 1.25 secs, Fireball will fizz itself if it procs on the swing after it already procced. Plus Fireball won't go off twice on a Double Strike, while Lightning will.

 

[Val-Tur]

Yeah, I will be @ 1.25 s. Fireball casting delay is 1 s, while lightning is 1.25.

Isn't this how it goes (fireball proc): swing > proc 1s cast > 0.5 s delay > swing > proc 1s cast > 0.5 s delay. It *should* only interrupt itself if it takes longer to cast than to swing. What am I missing here?

I also made a macro on a caster with no FC or FCR: cast fireball> delay 1s> cast fireball & cast lightning> delay 1s> cast lightning. I did not get any message saying that I have no recovered from casting a spell.

 

[Parnoc]

This comes from an old archer with many many years watching the damage done by bows. I believe that Fireball hits slightly later than the arrow damage, that probably is the reason that you say that fireball fizzles but how do you know it fizzled? The good part about Fireball hitting slightly later is that it will disrupt a Mage's casting, at least that's my belief and is backed up by my years of watching.

 

[Val-Tur]

I honestly have never sat and tried to time swing vs proc in UO. Every other mmo I have played, the proc is instant.

 

[celticus]

In PvP, lightning is preferred to HFB, due to more instant proc..IIRC?

 

[Maximus Neximus]

In PvP, lightning is preferred to HFB, due to more instant proc..IIRC?

I haven’t pvp’d in a few years. But I remember fireball also froze you for a half second or so.

 

[celticus]

I haven’t pvp’d in a few years. But I remember fireball also froze you for a half second or so.

Interesting to hear. I wonder if this freezing part is part of the slight delay part with the FB, if it is still there nowdays.

 

[Val-Tur]

I made a magical shortbow with 50 HFB - I swing it at 1.25. I tested the possible *fizzling* on some high hp mobs. I do not see back to back fireball procs fizzling out. However, the fireball proc is not instant damage to the mob. It lags behind the arrow shot by basically an entire swing. Your arrow hits the mob, the fireball procs and takes what seems like a full swing to reach the target. So you have to watch very carefully because it can seem like the fireball gets *lost* on back to back procs. I do not like the way it behaves at all.

 

[Val-Tur]

Interesting to hear. I wonder if this freezing part is part of the slight delay part with the FB, if it is still there nowdays.

Hit spell procs used to never freeze (lag) you. Then sometime they started making your character seem to pause for half a sec each proc. Then they stopped behaving that way. Then they started again. Etc, off and on through the years. During the town invasions I noticed my HL was freezing (lagging) me pretty bad on my archer. It is annoying as heck when you are kiting mobs.

 

[Keven2002]

For what it's worth, if I am using a 100% fire weapon it's because it's the lowest resist of whatever I'm fighting so I go fireball. If I'm fighting something with lower energy I use 100% energy with lightning and then 100% cold + harm if the lowest is cold. This combo is also boosted when I use onslaught because it's dropping the fire resist for a couple seconds.

 

[Pawain]

After doing the paragons in deceit, I changed to hit lower attack. I have tried the hits and areas. Most tough targets have 70 or more in all resists so those spells do like 12 damage on a mob that has ???? HP.

So instead of a hit spell I prefer hit lower defense for my archers and hld or hla for melee toons.

 

[Val-Tur]

For what it's worth, if I am using a 100% fire weapon it's because it's the lowest resist of whatever I'm fighting so I go fireball. If I'm fighting something with lower energy I use 100% energy with lightning and then 100% cold + harm if the lowest is cold. This combo is also boosted when I use onslaught because it's dropping the fire resist for a couple seconds.

Harm would be good for a toe to toe melee. It's proc is instant like lightning (thats the way the mage spell works). I simply and truly hate the way fireball procs.

 

[Val-Tur]

After doing the paragons in deceit, I changed to hit lower attack. I have tried the hits and areas. Most tough targets have 70 or more in all resists so those spells do like 12 damage on a mob that has ???? HP.

So instead of a hit spell I prefer hit lower defense for my archers and hld or hla for melee toons.

I personally think HLA is becoming more valuable as a weapon mod than stacking HLD for toe to toe melee. It used to be popular to stack HLD on weapon with mace & shield even in pvm. I think the events like deceit are the future content & the mobs in them are just going to hit harder & harder.

 

[Tabin]

Like Quickblade said, if you hit every 1.25 secs, Fireball will fizz itself if it procs on the swing after it already procced. Plus Fireball won't go off twice on a Double Strike, while Lightning will.

This is very interesting and i had no idea! I have been farming with a hit fireball weapon for months and never noticed this fizzling effect. I’ll do some testing tonight.

EDIT: Just tested, i was able to proc hit fire ball twice in a row at 1.25 sec swing speed. Anyone know how to turn on damage (im on enhanced client) in chat journal so I can see and record the procs with a time stamp?

 

[Val-Tur]

This is very interesting and i had no idea! I have been farming with a hit fireball weapon for months and never noticed this fizzling effect. I’ll do some testing tonight.

EDIT: Just tested, i was able to proc hit fire ball twice in a row at 1.25 sec swing speed. Anyone know how to turn on damage (im on enhanced client) in chat journal so I can see and record the procs with a time stamp?

The way fireball procs is very confusing, it took me a while to visually affirm it procs back to back. Visually it seems that the arrow hits target < then fireball procs & travels to the target and hits the target a fraction of a second before the second arrow hits the target. Hopefully you can get this working to also confirm with a combat log.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

This is very interesting and i had no idea! I have been farming with a hit fireball weapon for months and never noticed this fizzling effect. I’ll do some testing tonight.

EDIT: Just tested, i was able to proc hit fire ball twice in a row at 1.25 sec swing speed. Anyone know how to turn on damage (im on enhanced client) in chat journal so I can see and record the procs with a time stamp?

Yeah, it's been awhile since i tested Hit Fireball, so they may have fixed it not proccing on subsequent attacks. Pretty sure though that it still doesn't double proc on Double Strike though, i re-tested that recently when making a wep for either Treasures of Deceit or killing UEVs.

 

[Keven2002]

Harm would be good for a toe to toe melee. It's proc is instant like lightning (thats the way the mage spell works). I simply and truly hate the way fireball procs.

I'm not sure if you were talking about ranged or toe to toe but I think you are right about harm and ranged weapons; if you are using a bow swap out harm with velocity (at least that is what I do).

 

[Maximus Neximus]

After doing the paragons in deceit, I changed to hit lower attack. I have tried the hits and areas. Most tough targets have 70 or more in all resists so those spells do like 12 damage on a mob that has ???? HP.

So instead of a hit spell I prefer hit lower defense for my archers and hld or hla for melee toons.

I agree with this. But it entirely depends on your suit. I do hit area, HLA, or both. The damage from hit spell isn't worth it to me. IIRC, the damage they do is based on eval which you don't likely have; with harm being the exception.

 

[Keven2002]

The damage from hit spell isn't worth it to me. IIRC, the damage they do is based on eval which you don't likely have; with harm being the exception.

I don't think this is correct. The hit spell on a weapon is purely based on the initial spell damage base and the targets resist to that element based on my understanding. My sampire was hitting paragon liches for 12-17 with a fireball...I don't have eval so if it was based on eval I believe they would be doing like 2-3 damage.

 

[Maximus Neximus]

I don't think this is correct. The hit spell on a weapon is purely based on the initial spell damage base and the targets resist to that element based on my understanding. My sampire was hitting paragon liches for 12-17 with a fireball...I don't have eval so if it was based on eval I believe they would be doing like 2-3 damage.

I was partially correct. I looked it up on the official guide:

The Evaluate Intelligence used for calculating the damage of on-hit spells is 80. The base damage is determined by the spell’s circle – so Magic Arrow has a base damage of 1-4 + 10. These properties are also subject to spell damage increase.

 

[Val-Tur]

The description of the three spells from UOGuide:

a) Lightning: Damages the target with a bolt of lightning. Energy damage (30-34 damage at GM Magery, Evaluating Intelligence and Inscription) Elemental Resistances reduce damage.

b) Fireball: Casts a fireball at a target (12-32 damage)

c) Harm: Affects a target within 10 paces of the caster. Cold damage. The Harm spell's damage is affected by the range to target (full damage for targets less then 2 tiles away, 1/2 damage for targets exactly 2 tiles away, and 1/4 damage for targets more then 2 tiles away. 23-29 Damage at GM Magery, Evaluating Intelligence, and Inscription). Elemental Resistances reduce damage

Also this thread discusses the proc damage in detail: How is damage from the 'hit fireball/lightning/etc' properties done?

I can confirm fireball can hit for 23 with no eval int, etc. I tested this in ice dungeon. Imo, I really think treating procs like spells is a bad mistake on the part of the devs. Procs should be treated separately from spells. They should be fixed damage and instant. It just avoids so many issues, confusion, & is easier to balance them in the game. At some point, someone will or has found a way to exploit the procs by boosting them way above what they were ever intended.

 

[Pawain]

So that means mages who use mage weapons would benefit from those more. Now I unsterstand why they do such little damage on high resist targets. Interesting design.

I can confirm fireball can hit for 23 with no eval int, etc. I tested this in ice dungeon.

Almost every Mob there has low fire resist. The AOL has -5 fire resist.

 

[Val-Tur]

Almost every Mob there has low fire resist. The AOL has -5 fire resist.

Yes, the obvious choice to see that FB does not require eval into to reach max damage. FB is the only one of the procs not listed to require it.

 

[Pawain]

Yes, the obvious choice to see that FB does not require eval into to reach max damage. FB is the only one of the procs not listed to require it.

23 damage on a 80 resist target is 5 damage. So if that target had some fire resist your back to around 11 like I said they do earlier. 11 damage on a ???? HP target is nothing. Thats why Id rather get hit less hard or hit more often with high damage instead.