Hey You Warcraft Historians! Stratics Needs Some Help!

[Sunhawk]

Hey Cha0s, doing well?

I have no idea about #1 (I'd guess they were standard demons though).

However, #2 I know. Durotan was betrayed by Orgrim Doomhammer. Orgrim Doomhammer sent his personal guard to escort Durotan and his wife (Draka) and son (Thrall) and their snow wolf (Sharptooth) away from his encampment. Durotan was discussing with Orgrim the dealings with Gul'dan the Betrayer.

Durotan's company is ambushed by assassains, supposedly sent by Orgrim Doomhammer (though I'm not 100% sure). An axe pierces Durotan's leg and the assassains do not speak or howl while they fight (assassains are Orcs, Duro despises their lack of honor). Durotan strangles the first attacker, about the time his wolf is slain. The personal guard is sliced by a large sword as he's yelling: "No, I'm one of you, they are the target..." He is decapitated by the slice. (Face still holds a look of surpise). Draka is slain by an assassain, and Durotan, wounded badly, seeks to save his son's life. With his child in the very front of him, Durotan lays bleeding to death. The assassain(s) leaves him to die and the baby to be eaten by forest creatures. Durotan died of bloodloss from the axe wound to his leg.

The baby Orc is discovered by Blackmoore and his servant, Tammis Foxton, but that's a different story. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

That is the story from Lord of the Clans, by Christie Golden. Whether it's exactly as Blizzard intends is beyond my knowledge, but I thought this might help you out. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Guest]

In the cinematics of War2 when Guldan raises the tomb all we see is a Demon walk out, look at the sun light and then the screen closes and you hear it flying away while wailing a cry of some sort.

In the books it is said that when he raised the tomb demons came out and riped him and Cho'Gall to shreds. This indicates that it was either the wrong tomb, or it was the right tomb but the lower level demons came out first and Sargeras steped out after.

 

[Cha0sGrenade]

Ok...we are working on the first Episode of Sages of Azeroth, due out later this month. Episode one is a deep look into Orcish history. It will have everything from Gul Dan to Ogrim Doomhammer.

But...our resident historians have two big holes they need help filling.

1. In Warcraft 2: When Gul Dan opens the tomb of Sargeras...was it Sargeras who destroys him? Or just a bunch of demons?

2. Durotan is Thrall's Dad. He was killed by Blackhand's sons. Anyone know how he was killed? We think its described in one of the books but we can't find it. He was ambushed but how did they attack him? With axes? Spears? Arrows?

We'll give an acknowledgement in the credits to the first person/s who can answer these question definitively with some kind of reference for proof.

 

[Basil-BD]

I think the orcs were working for Gul'dan actually. I need to re-read and catch up on that.

But I am pretty sure it was, cause Ogrim was very loyal to Durotan.



~b

 

[Buri the Dwarf]

I have your answer to #1. As you already know Gul'dan abandoned his post and set off to sea betraying Doomhammer so he could open the Tomb of Sargeras. He succeeded in raising the tomb from the sea floor, however, wheb he opened the flooded vault he found crazed demons awaiting him. Gul'dan was then torn apart by the demons he had set loose. So Gul'dan was killed by the demons not Sargeras, but it's possible Sargeras was still inside the tomb. (he just wasn't a demon that killed Gul'dan) I hope this helps.

 

[Faenix]

yeah i agree with basil on this one...

ogrim would never do that to durotan... they were friends and comrades in arms..
why would ogrim send them when he meets and talks with thrall later and becomes his friend?

not sure who but i'm guessing guldan was the sender of the assassins.. everything else was pretty correct though...

nice job.. got it from the "Lord of the Clans" novel?
awesome book!!!

 

[Sunhawk]

Though it probably was Gul'dan, there is some evidence that it could have been Orgrim who betrayed Durotan.

First of all, the assassination happened right outside of Doomhammer's camp. The escort was Doomhammer's personal guard, and therefore he is less likely to have been bribed by Gul'dan. Doomhammer was just betrayed by Gul'dan, and therefore he may have been more paranoid than ever before, even suspicious of the other Warchief's loyalties. With victory over the humans in his grasp, Doomhammer may have been thinking about ways to consolidate his power over the Horde, and getting rid of other Warchiefs (particularly powerful/influential ones, like Durotan) would put Doomhammer in good political position (he would have no opposition to his leadership). Doomhammer is friendly to Thrall after Durotan is slain because the situation has changed completely (it's a generation later), and Doomhammer knows Thrall is the only one who can rally the Orcs to fight again.

Gul'dan probably is the true killer however. I was just speculating on some reasons why Doomhammer might've slain Clan Frostwolf.

 

[Basil-BD]

Occam's Razor...



~b

 

[Cha0sGrenade]

Well I read somewhere that it was Blackhands sons who were the assassins. Is this not true?

 

[Basil-BD]

Don't know about that, never read that anywhere.


~b

 

[Bann_the_Bard]

Aye, Rend and Maim (Blackhand's sons) did assassinate Durotan. This is noted here.

And for future reference, Ockham's Razor shouldn't be considered in regards to literary works, in that it is neither science or philosophy. Apply it to the movie "Clue" and everyone but the butler did it. Creativity is exciting like that. /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Cha0sGrenade]

Thanks for those of you who helped with this. If it's remained up this long without a heated debate I think we can assume you guys hit the nail on the head. For those that responded, I sent a PM out to you in regards to helping us fact check the audio for the first episode of Sages of Azeroth.

I know it is late (we promised January) but it is kind of like Voltron right now. We have all the pieces ready to assemble...we just need to be absolutely sure of the facts before the black lion comes out and we all start plugging in to it.

Did I just make a Voltron reference?....dear god...someone shoot me.

 

[Sunhawk]

I agree with you on this one. I read the other day about Aegewyn's (Medivh's mom, over 700 years old at his birth) battle with demons. In particular, Sargeras is described as a "god". Here is a good descriptive exerpt (of the demon Sargeras) from the novel The Last Guardian by Jeff Grubb:

"And from out of the darkened cloud Khadgar saw a god emerge.
It was a titanic figure, larger than any giant of myth, greater than any dragon. Its skin looked like it was cast in bronze, and it wore black armor made of molten obsidian. Its great beard and wild hair were made of living flames, and huge horns jutted from above its dark brow. Its eyes were the color of the Infinite Abyss. It strode out of the dark cloud, and the earth shook where its feet fell. It carried a huge spear engraved with runes that dripped with burning blood, and it had a long tail ending in a fireball..."

Given this description of the great demon, I think it's safe to say that Gul'dan was not slain by this monster when he opened the tomb (given that the Warcraft II cinematic is accurate, as well). The flick shows the standard outline of a demon, which conflicts with Grubb's description of Sargeras utterly.

Hope this helps.

PS, I sent several messages a couple weeks ago to you Cha0s, did you get them?

 

[Illuvatar617]

did everybody learn all this stuff from the warcraft novels? if so where can u find them besides the internet.